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Short filmTranscript
00:001, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5!
00:11This is Wendy O. Williams and her band of the Plasmatics,
00:17the disruptor kingpins of rock and roll.
00:20the plasmatics have incorporated staged violence and overt sexuality for a two-fisted impact that
00:32has very little to do with music
00:34wendy got pushback from the time that she stepped out on stage she was a provocateur
00:45she is called the high priest of the metal the roughest toughest woman in rock and roll the queen
00:50of shock rock wendy o williams there weren't too many women for running metal bands at the time
00:55are you angry what are you angry about why heavy metal it was the ultimate fuck you to society
01:01it's a way to kick sand in the face of the status quo you know anything that was status quo was like
01:07anti-wendy she hated the commercialism and the conformity of everything
01:14the whole message was the right of self-expression and to fight authority
01:19she was an activist you know what i mean but she took her thing to the stage you know
01:25wendy had a bullseye on her i can imagine if you're uptight and you don't think women should
01:31have agency at all i can see how that would be a threat prepare to be outraged police said here
01:36wendy you simulated a sex act and made up scene motions during your performance wendy o williams
01:41has been arrested again police grabbed her right after a concert with the plasmatics
01:44what right do police have to try and censor rock and roll milwaukee police arrested lead singer wendy
01:52o williams that triggered a fight amongst wendy and the number of milwaukee police officers she was put
01:57up as an example of what they were against they thought i was an incarnate of the devil and they
02:02attacked me and beat me unconscious it's a control thing it challenged their whole ethic
02:08here is a woman that threatens them i'm going to lash out against her in the only way that i have
02:14power over her and that's with violence and strength this issue here in milwaukee is a very
02:19serious issue of civil rights and first amendment rights she was not afraid she was just pissed
02:26she always used to say what we do is we draw a line in the sand and then we step over that line
02:32there's a war here wendy was motivated to fight back that's how she was there's so many guises of
02:40fascism that needs to be undermined and exposed
02:45so
02:57ever since i was little i've always liked to
03:15smash things i don't like conformity i hate people telling me what to do so-called normal
03:27behavior patterns make me so bored i could throw up
03:32the plasminus give me a chance to get this violence out of me and express it to other people
03:44my name is rod swenson or nearly a half century since wendy o williams and i met became lovers
04:08and then significant others i've chosen to remain off camera for this interview for the same reason i
04:15tried to remain off camera and behind the scenes during the 10 years run of the plasmatics
04:21this is wendy's story she was the plasmatics and she is the star
04:28the plasmatics was just a wild shock rock group some people might look at it as a freak show or something
04:46i love that kind of stuff
04:48you'd heard rumors about the plasmatics
04:53it was holy fuck it was it was a tornado in a bottle
04:57there was nothing at all like a plasmatic show they were really doing
05:04things nobody ever saw before
05:05if you can imagine the sound coming from a chainsaw cutting into a guitar
05:11with the strings live that's what it was about
05:14a lot of fuck you energy
05:16it's easy to go with the flow it's easy to go with the formula
05:23it's difficult to do what you feel but it's necessary if you want to achieve satisfaction on any level
05:31what she was about from day one it was to go out on stage and to provoke the establishment
05:38Wendy used to say we're gagging on apple pie
05:44and that was pretty much at the center of who wendy was when i met her
05:50it was 1976 when wendy arrived into new york
05:58time square was the place you could go to to see things that were beyond the edge
06:04kind of like the center for the taboo
06:07so it was a good place for me to set up a theater under the name of captain kink
06:12and i am producing radical experimental theater and it had a strong sexual content
06:18i was doing a casting call for performers
06:24wendy came through the door she was carrying a four-foot-high plastic buddha and a suitcase
06:30which she dumped onto the floor
06:33among the things that fell out were timothy leary's book on psychedelics
06:38the tantric way to yoga
06:41and we looked at each other and it was just clear that there was this explosive chemistry
06:47wendy came on as a performer reducing of sexual taboos
06:52that's the part of the boundaries we were pushing at that time and she was astounding
06:56we were both inherently rebellious
06:59our main connection was being in a world that made no sense
07:03a world of mass-produced things sexism
07:06when there's no man around
07:09good years should be
07:13racism
07:14we felt as though things were out of control
07:17and people were not aware of it
07:20wendy's home life was very repressive
07:23she describes the situation where she was up in her room lip-syncing with a hairbrush
07:30to mitch ryder's devil with the blue dress on dancing wildly
07:36her father pushes open the door and broke the record in half
07:46they didn't want noise
07:48they didn't want her excitement
07:50they didn't want her exuberance around
07:53they tried to medicate her
07:55they were continually trying to put her back in a box
07:59if you won't do what we tell you, you're out
08:07what she said at that point is telling
08:10and it is something that is worth remembering about her
08:13she yells back
08:15I'd rather be dead
08:16than be zombified in the world that you are living in
08:20so she left home with nothing
08:23you know, looking for something that was different than that
08:28if you wanted to do something relevant
08:31rock and roll was the art of the time
08:34back in the late 70s
08:36there was an energy in New York unlike anywhere else
08:38and I always kind of compare it to Paris in the 20s
08:42it was such an exciting time to be alive
08:44the music was so vibrant
08:46it was so different
08:47the New York punk scene was really cool
08:50CBGB's, Max's Kansas City
08:52and a few other clubs around Manhattan
08:54you see bands like the Ramones
08:56I don't wanna forever do
08:58I don't wanna forever do
09:00I don't wanna forever do
09:01I don't wanna forever do
09:02I don't wanna forever do
09:03The Dead Boys
09:04I mean these guys just exuded energy
09:06I saw CBGB's as another potential laboratory
09:20the next place to fight back in some way
09:22I put the plasmatics together for and around Wendy O. Williams as a vehicle
09:27and she came alive in it
09:44The band had a buzz on them
09:45and there was a lot more women in the audience than you might expect
09:49they saw the strength in Wendy
09:51and what she was putting out there as a woman
09:53which they hadn't seen before
09:55they heard about it, they went and saw it
09:57they had to see it again
09:58they had to tell their friends about it
10:00they just blew people away
10:02All the way to the entryway of CBGB's
10:05was just packed with people
10:07I had to push my way into the dressing room
10:09I'm pushing people aside going
10:11hey I'm in the band, I'm in the band
10:13you know, by 1979
10:15we were playing four nights in a row
10:18two shows a night
10:19and selling it out
10:21there were lines around the block to get in
10:23and so that's when I started looking for other venues
10:27if you could draw a crowd
10:29you could command the stage
10:32Rod was the man behind the curtain
10:34you know, in the old Wizard of Oz
10:35pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
10:37that, that was Rod
10:40Rod worked in the shadows
10:42the man who knows
10:43sure of everything he wanted to do
10:44he was an absolute total control freak
10:46not just of the shows
10:48but some of the effects
10:49were very, very important to him
10:54none of the pyro was pyro for the sake of pyro
10:57it was tearing down everything
10:59and showing art could be dangerous
11:01art could be loud
11:03that there's beauty in destruction
11:05actually a lot deeper than I thought
11:12part of our idea here was to have the audience feel
11:17that things were way out of control
11:19because that's the way we felt out in the world
11:22so we created this environment
11:24to bring the audience into the performance
11:27they were like a single unit, Rod and Wendy
11:30they were totally a team
11:32they had their vision
11:33just destroying the materialistic bullshit
11:36that people felt was so important back then
11:55in those days people worshipped the television
11:58in the same way now that they worship the iPhone
12:01so the only way you could get people concerned
12:04the only way you could start a revolution
12:06is to take away their TVs
12:08you work all of your life to buy a car
12:13to buy a color TV
12:14to buy a stereo
12:15to buy a radio
12:16and you love these things once you get them
12:19but you hate them
12:20because you had to work so hard to get them
12:23Wendy was right in your face
12:26you want a nice sweet little girl
12:27to know her place
12:28and do what she's supposed to do
12:30and look sexy
12:31and then you have someone like Wendy
12:33who stands up and says
12:34I'm a little bit more than that
12:36there were two Wendy O's
12:48she was just the nicest fucking person
12:52and vegan
12:54she didn't drink liquor
12:56she didn't do drugs
12:57she was straight edge
12:59before straight edge was a thing
13:01and then there was the
13:02I've got a message to get out to the world
13:05Wendy
13:08we were a people's band
13:10we could tour across the country
13:12with these huge production bills
13:14with what we were getting in ticket sales
13:16but we weren't making money either
13:18you're giving us this money
13:20but here's what we're doing with it
13:21we're not buying ourselves a Cadillac
13:24we took all the money
13:26and put it back into the band
13:27we put it into the show
13:28we did this all for the fans
13:30all independent
13:37all doing it themselves
13:38no record label
13:39labels were scared shitless of them
13:41the audiences were into fighting the establishment
13:45the record labels were the establishment
13:48the record labels were the establishment
13:50but Stiff Records since they were such an over the top innovative label
13:54they signed us to a record deal
13:56you know it's just what they needed right when they needed it
14:00Stiff Records set up a show for us at the prestigious Hammersmith Odeon in England
14:06it was a heavily hyped show
14:08it was a heavily hyped show
14:09we were a heavily hyped act
14:11and this is already news to the British press
14:15we were arriving at Heathrow
14:17and there was already a throng of reporters there
14:20with lots of cameras flashing
14:22Wendy exited the plane dressed as a nurse
14:25and she said I've come to give the British culture an enema
14:30which was fairly wild you know
14:33it was a sold out show
14:35we were going to blow up a car on stage
14:37like we had done at numerous shows in America
14:40without incident
14:42the Greater London Council sent around some octogenarians
14:46who kind of walked around the car taking notes
14:50they were having reservations about this
14:52and they went and huddled
14:55and then came back with the decision
14:57under the pretense that they couldn't have the car explosion
15:00they were going to ban the show
15:03we learned later that they believed
15:05Wendy would whip the audience into an anarchist frenzy
15:10the Greater London Council was trying to suppress
15:13the punk rock ethic that was so prevalent early on in the 70s
15:17they didn't want it to rear its ugly head
15:20that was our underestimation of how strong the pushback was
15:25you know when you challenge certain types of things
15:28they find Wendy threatening
15:30she had to be bold and she had to be out there
15:33and she had to push it
15:34that's who she was
15:35where are the priorities in this country right now
15:38cleaning up the inner cities certainly isn't one of them
15:42more nuclear arms seemed to be a priority
15:47I mean this is what the government wants
15:49yet the people don't want it in the national elections
15:52it did shake up a lot of people
15:54once we started playing in the heartland of America
15:57we found out how threatened people were
16:00we brought up feeling that we live in the freest country in the world
16:03but the more you step over the line
16:06the more you go to seek out the truth
16:08the harder it is
16:15I was interested in art not with a capital A
16:18but in reaching people with ideas
16:21so for me mass media real people media
16:25that is our culture that is our art
16:27Rod and Wendy were extremely media savvy
16:31they would absolutely manipulate it as best they could
16:34to push the vision forward
16:36the first time we were on TV was on the show Fridays
16:48that put them in everybody's living room across America
16:52you know nobody expected that but it happened
16:58we were now across the country
17:00we were not just in urban hip areas like New York or LA
17:04so that was kind of startling to people
17:07and following that the notoriety of what they did
17:11began to strike fear into these repressive people in the hinterlands
17:16we had been touring through the Midwest
17:19you could see the discomfort with the locals
17:22we'd be walking down the street
17:24they would yell and cat call at us
17:26we'd walk into a fast food place
17:28and it would just be silent
17:30you'd see people come peeking out from behind the kitchen
17:33we just figured that's just part of the game
17:35if we're gonna do shows like this
17:37that's gonna happen
17:39when they were coming to Milwaukee
17:41I wrote for the paper and I wrote music stories
17:45I hate Fleetwood Mac and I hate America
17:48I mean not just the country but the band
17:51so I became a punk rocker
17:53I thought this is great
17:54the Plasmads are coming to this little shithole
17:57so naturally I had to be there
17:59the conservative people of which there are many in Milwaukee
18:03you know to them it was like this stripper was coming to town
18:06to sing punk rock
18:07so it combined their two biggest fears
18:09which is basically challenging music
18:11and you know this woman that was okay with her sexuality
18:14everybody in town was like bracing for it
18:18in a sense of like oh what horrible thing is this evil band gonna do
18:22we gotta defend our children you know
18:24there was this whole pearl clutching going on
18:26and you could feel it
18:27I mean you could totally feel it
18:28there was many versions of the show
18:31depending on what we could get away with
18:33to me Milwaukee was another show with rules
18:38like some municipalities were like
18:40yeah look you can get away with all your other crap
18:42but you can't use the shotgun
18:43Rod and Wendy they would acquiesce
18:46they would say okay what can we do
18:48let's agree on how far we can push it
18:51Milwaukee were being super scrutinized
18:54they wouldn't just buy the tape on the nipples
18:56they said no you have to cover up more than that
18:59soap shaving cream
19:01we gotta be on our A game
19:03and you know make sure everything's as legit as we can make it
19:07walking into the club it was like any other show
19:14but then there'd be a guy over here with a pot belly
19:17and a plastic cup of water
19:18and then there's another one over there
19:21when you saw all these people out there
19:24that looked like they were your dad's friends
19:26that played golf
19:27you're like what the fuck are all these cops doing here
19:30you know
19:33they actually thought they were undercover
19:35that was what was the cutest part about it
19:37I wasn't aware of any police presence in the club
19:40the crowd looked like every other crowd that we played in front of
19:44we were just doing our thing
19:46Wendy was performing
19:48it was not anything different than we had done anywhere else across the country
19:52I'm from New York
19:53you know when you get that
19:54something's not right here
19:56you know
19:57there were already police in the back
19:59and things are getting tense
20:01right after the show ended
20:03they said they were arresting Wendy on an obscenity charge
20:06we're just going to take her downtown
20:08you can follow us
20:09and we'll book her and that'll be it
20:11and I actually couldn't believe it
20:13it was our first arrest
20:15because I was covering the show as a writer as well as just going as a fan
20:21I grabbed my friend and we ran out the front and around the back
20:25and we passed the big cop wagon there
20:27and then they start bringing out the band members
20:30so the first one to come out is the bass player escorted down the stairs by a cop or two
20:41he wasn't resisting
20:43but you know being a black guy in Milwaukee is a really bad idea probably to this day
20:48they actually dragged him they didn't like bring him up to the van they dragged him out behind the van to our right and now he's down in the snow
20:58you could hear the billy clubs hitting his head
21:01you could hear the billy clubs hitting his head
21:02which is a disgusting sound when you realize it's an actual person getting hit like that
21:09and then that's when Wendy came out
21:11by her account there was a gauntlet really of police lined up at the very end of which was a paddy wagon
21:19and they kind of walked her down this gauntlet while she was being taunted by police
21:25she stepped up into the paddy wagon
21:28her account is that hands were all over her
21:31and she turned around to essentially defend herself
21:34and she goes to slap him
21:37then that's when the barracuda went crazy
21:40one of our roadies comes racing now into this office and says
21:46they're beating Wendy up
21:48my kind of heart jumped in my mouth
21:50as I raced down the hall
21:53there was a policeman guarding the exit
21:56and said sorry you can't go out here
21:58I didn't stop
22:00I kicked the door open
22:04what I saw on the ground was you know completely sickening
22:09her face is down on the ground
22:11she's being kicked in the face
22:13she's being beaten
22:15manager came out like a linebacker
22:18what the fuck are you doing
22:19he like that
22:20and then of course three cops grab him
22:22and he's in the snow
22:23and they're whacking him
22:24you know with the nightsticks on his head
22:27I ran out the back door
22:29and I see they took Wendy to the ground
22:31it's like what the fuck
22:33boom guy grabs me
22:34puts me in a headlock
22:36I'm on the ground
22:38I'm trying to see what's going on
22:40and she's kicking and screaming
22:42they dragged me off behind a car
22:45and I was beaten into unconsciousness
22:48I had no idea when they would stop
22:50I did not know how or what or when or if I was going to wake up honestly
22:59you're both taken to the local jail
23:01at the end of the day she had her nose broken
23:03multiple black eyes
23:04a concussion among other things
23:06the next time we saw each other was in the morning when they came to get us for an arraignment
23:11simulated masturbation was the sin of the day
23:17sometimes she would stroke the sledgehammer
23:21that's what got her in trouble in Milwaukee
23:23meanwhile right across the street from the show was a famous strip club
23:29and the cops hung out in there all the time
23:31so like what are they going to close the strip club now
23:33you know if Wendy goes down
23:35this hypocrisy of basically thugs was in a way what we've been talking about all along
23:42the lawyer told us you need to get out of town now
23:45they are after you
23:47I got you out on bail you don't come back until the trial
23:51Wendy and I were both charged with felonies striking a police officer
23:55so at that point things got existentially serious
23:59that's the scary thing is that this was against her
24:03like she had gotten beat up
24:05and now the city was going to prosecute her for doing something wrong
24:10when the paper came out it listed who her lawyer was going to be
24:15and I called that office like that morning
24:18and I said anything you want
24:20I was there I saw the whole thing
24:22here's my name here's my number
24:24you know I'll do anything you want to help defend them
24:26we were national news
24:30there's now the response from the media where she's given a voice
24:33here to sing a pig is a pig are the plasmatics
24:37and when do you think
24:39the song pig is a pig was a very hard tough response to that arrest
24:44it's dedicated to a special kind of person who's hiding under eyes
24:48and in closets wherever you go
24:51hiding behind a guy's over respectability
24:55some people might say getting arrested
24:57and all this stuff is not good for the band
25:00we didn't want it to happen
25:02but we knew how to take advantage of it
25:04the sicky sadist
25:06who hides behind his police badge
25:09to commit crimes of violence
25:11against other people
25:13I've heard of the plasmatics
25:14and I knew it was a wild group
25:16you know what I mean
25:17a pig is a pig
25:19and that's that
25:21it's your future
25:23it was the music that got me
25:25you know it was just so powerful and strong and fast
25:28but it was it was serious
25:30you know what I mean it was for real
25:31it was no joke
25:38people didn't know how to perceive Wendy
25:40they just looked at her like some kind of wild freak
25:42but she had a message
25:44there are many people who are really scared by what you do
25:47why shouldn't they be scared by this
25:49people are scared
25:50I mean like the people in Milwaukee
25:52they were scared
25:53I mean the spy squad was very scared of what we were doing
25:56and that I was stepping over the line of what it was expected
25:59for how a woman to act you know other than being barefoot pregnant and in the kitchen
26:04women in culture were generally expected to be smiling
26:08some type of eye candy
26:10one of the things that the Milwaukee police found so threatening
26:13is that she was angry
26:15unlike what the public thought
26:18it wasn't a sexual drive
26:20the reason she's up there is not to titillate
26:23she's saying about social injustice and violence
26:27at the same time not covering up her femininity
26:31she was very very comfortable with her sexuality
26:34that scares a lot of men
26:36they don't know how to handle it
26:37five of them held me down
26:39well six other than beat me repeatedly
26:41till I thought I would never stand up again
26:43till I thought I was dead in Milwaukee
26:45this is a brutality issue
26:46this is a first amendment issue
26:48this is a civil rights issue
26:50and this is very definitely women's rights
26:52after the whole Milwaukee incident
26:55she was still wanting to perform
26:56that was her focus
26:58you know like I say you got to get back on the horse
27:00the show was a bulldozer
27:02it was moving it was going
27:03it was not going to stop
27:05but she was under the microscope
27:08Wendy had a bullseye on her
27:10the Milwaukee police department called the head to Cleveland
27:13to warn them of this woman
27:16you have to arrest her
27:17how can this be going on
27:21the vice squad out in Cleveland say she gave a concert
27:23wearing a lot of shaving cream
27:25and not much else
27:26the police in Cleveland decided
27:28they were gonna arrest her for
27:30pandering or some stupid charge
27:33I don't know
27:34you figure it out
27:35you know it doesn't make any sense to me
27:37it was just the whole trumped up nonsense
27:41charges were thrown out
27:42after her acquittal
27:43Ms. Williams said
27:44this was never an obscenity trial
27:46but rather a trial of the first amendment
27:48we were wondering
27:49well is this going to be the norm now
27:51it changed things
27:52are you scared at all about
27:54what's happening to you
27:55with the courts and the legal hassles
27:58I mean does it ever get you nervous
27:59oh it's terrifying
28:00it's terrifying
28:01but it's high time people realize
28:04that women do have minds of their own
28:06and that a female body is not dirty
28:08she was charged with the obscenity charge
28:11but it was the felonies that they wanted
28:13to get us on
28:14it could lead to serious jail time
28:17the media attention
28:19put a light on Milwaukee
28:21and the Milwaukee
28:22fairly corrupt police department
28:24they thought if they put me on trial
28:26that the media would lose interest
28:28the DA said that if he couldn't convict Rod
28:32he was going to drop the charges against Wendy
28:34but we were all worried that the DA
28:36was going to pull out the stops
28:38and do God knows what
28:39legal or illegal to help convict them
28:42I'd never had to be a witness before
28:45you know I remember the lawyer telling me
28:47it has to be the truth
28:49don't embellish it
28:51you realize that's right
28:52because there's going to be ten cops
28:54telling their version of the story
28:56yeah so it was scary as fuck
28:58the prosecution asked me if I felt
29:01that the performance was sexual in any way
29:03and I said no not really
29:05and that's when I talked about how
29:06I watched the cops beat up the band
29:08there was a number of eyewitnesses
29:10people who were courageous enough to come forward
29:12this went on for nine days
29:14the Milwaukee police department's point of view
29:17is that Rod and Wendy assaulted an officer
29:20that was the bottom line
29:21thank God there was a photographer there
29:25because the cops were lying out their ass
29:35once they showed the pictures
29:37everyone went
29:38it was like whoa
29:40a group of burly police
29:42on a 110 pound woman
29:44how do you say oh well
29:47we were worried for our health and safety
29:51our lawyer would ask questions like
29:53did you see Miss Williams getting hit in the head
29:56or kicked in the face
29:58and the police officer would reply
30:01I don't recall
30:02and they say but police officer so and so
30:05you were just two feet from this
30:07were you not
30:08yes
30:09and you don't recall
30:10no I don't recall
30:12Wendy with her testimony
30:15helped to turn the tide as well
30:18as Wendy said
30:19what's happening in here is what's obscene
30:24they got acquitted
30:25it was a big big celebration
30:27they got slam dunked
30:28they had no case whatsoever
30:30not guilty
30:32I was through the roof
30:33I couldn't believe it
30:35it just
30:36it was so screwed up
30:41but at this point
30:42there was heat on Wendy
30:43local promoters were told
30:46do not book this act in this town
30:48she felt obviously extremely disappointed
30:51the authorities were always looking for an excuse
30:54to kind of suppress Wendy
30:55the message
30:56we were always looking over our shoulders
30:59wondering if Wendy would be arrested
31:01she was mentally just
31:06I don't want to say broken
31:08I don't want to say broken
31:10but mad
31:17after Milwaukee we had difficulty
31:19as far as being able to book a tour
31:22that could pay for itself across the country
31:24so it got tougher for Wendy
31:27she was only comfortable when she was out there
31:29and with a platform warning you about
31:32things that are dangerous she thought
31:34to human health and happiness
31:36but there's all kinds of major breakthroughs that happen
31:40that's when the music turned
31:43we went from punk into heavy metal
31:50to do an expression that is bigger than before
31:53I saw an ad that says we're looking for a hard hitting double bass drummer
32:00with that title it had my name on it
32:03I had no idea it was a plasmatics
32:06and that's when Wendy was changing the course actually
32:10turned out to be heavy metal
32:12we liked that sound
32:16that's where the kind of epic feeling was in music
32:21but we kept our toughness our hardness
32:25continuing our warning about what's coming
32:28wake up
32:29when they try to have global scale
32:31I'm going to try to lack of a jail
32:34try my nature to go to the force
32:36let's dance or cross
32:39now women are beginning to make it
32:45into that last bastion of male music
32:48heavy metal
32:49there were no real women in heavy metal at that time
32:52she was metal, she was, you know, hardcore
32:56when this is tough
32:59any other male singer out here
33:00nobody can touch her
33:02people of certain types of heavy metal
33:04hated a woman being there
33:05excuse me
33:06but F you
33:07we are breaking territory here
33:14it was quite distinct
33:15heavy metal at that time was not political
33:17punks and so-called heavy metal
33:19they hated each other
33:21so there was always this kind of conflict
33:23when it got to KISS
33:25there was considerably more conflict
33:28world without heroes
33:31it's like a world without sun
33:34KISS had lost their edge to the heavy metal people
33:39they have always been kind of brilliant strategists
33:42so they thought having Wendy and the Plasmatics on the bill
33:45as a special guest would bring back that edge
33:48that is one great memory
33:51you're playing on the biggest stage in the world
33:54you're playing with the biggest band in the world
33:57KISS was giving us access to their audience
34:01they played all these big halls in certain parts of the country
34:05where we could probably never have gone on our own
34:08but our fans hated KISS
34:12it's too bad
34:14we were people
34:15if we're given an opportunity to reach more people
34:17with her message
34:18her power
34:19then we're gonna do it
34:21Gene Simmons came to us
34:23and said he wanted to produce the next album
34:26musically it's not exactly us
34:29so it was kind of the KISS sound
34:31the intent of that album was really to
34:34you know really feature her vocals
34:36it's my life
34:37it's my love
34:38and I'll do what I wanna do
34:40what I wanna do
34:42what I like
34:43it's my love
34:44she got a Grammy nomination for that album
34:47I saw somebody write it
34:48it was the best KISS album of 1982
34:51Kerrang! magazine
34:52which at the time was kind of like the heavy metal bible
34:56touted as album of the year
34:58my new year's resolution
35:01is always the same
35:04gonna do what I like
35:07gonna do what I want
35:08and the power
35:10she did her own stunts
35:12the video for it's my life
35:14the most spectacular stunt is the car to airplane transition
35:18done without a safety harness
35:21very very dangerous thing
35:23she is called the high priestess of metal
35:25the evil Knievel of rock
35:27Joan Crawford and torpedo bra
35:29will you please help me welcome
35:31Miss Wendy O. Williams
35:35she was kind of catapulted into legendary status
35:39because she grew ratings
35:41you went skydiving naked
35:43that's something I always wanted to do
35:46what if you didn't land in the field
35:47where there was waiting with a blanket for you
35:49what if you landed you know like in Chicago
35:52she was an extreme person in a very authentic way
35:56and it's that way that allows her to be all the way in
36:00all the way out
36:02all I know is how to do everything that I've got into everything that I do
36:07and aggression goes with it
36:09that's what heavy metal is all about
36:11she was an activist
36:13you know what I mean
36:14but she took her thing to the stage you know
36:17Wendy was way ahead of her time
36:19twenty years ahead of her time if you ask me
36:21I've got a brand new album right now
36:23it's called maggots the record
36:25it's the ninth anniversary plasmatic album
36:27this isn't after dinner music
36:29maggots that was kind of a conceptual album
36:43and about how you know what they're doing with the climate
36:45she was talking about climate change way back in the day man
36:48you know how people are raping the earth
36:50and burning down the Amazon
36:52and doing this and doing that
36:54we are cutting down the forest
36:57for more McDonald's hamburgers
36:59we are burning fossil fuels
37:02and this is rising the temperature of the whole planet
37:06this is the 80s and people talking about this stuff now
37:09people just couldn't grab on to what was going on at the time
37:12yeah well because of this they predict in 30 years
37:16the flooding of all the major cities
37:18how does that all tie into your diet?
37:20people don't listen
37:21they just want to put you in a hole
37:22you're this or you're that
37:24you know
37:25and you're just a product
37:26you know what I mean
37:27next
37:28do you think that ever got to her
37:29or sort of wore her down in a way?
37:31well she didn't show anything like that around us
37:35she was very positive
37:37you know what I mean
37:38she stood up for what her ideas were
37:40it was almost like being a true soldier man
37:43you always hope that you can be a tipping point
37:46it's not just that you'll warn people
37:48but you'll show enough people that you might turn it around
37:51but things are slow to change
37:54basically we were in a situation where with each tour
37:57there was shows being banned
38:00other places where there was lawsuits that were filed
38:03and I'd like to show the sampling
38:07senate hearings held to keep teenage people from getting records
38:11porn rock
38:12and so this continual marginalization was closing in on us
38:17because you couldn't carry the overhead to do the show the way that we felt we wanted it to be done
38:22and we had made an agreement a long time earlier
38:25we said if we get to that point then we will stop
38:31after the plasmatic surgery had ended
38:34feeling so disempowered as she did without a platform
38:37and the way she saw the world was going
38:40to participate in it
38:42being complacent
38:43it made her feel almost sick
38:46she was not interested in going halfway
38:50it just wasn't in her to do it
38:52to know that she had been in that kind of pain
38:55that was the hard part
38:58twenty years ago
39:00Wendy O. Williams and the plasmatics were a hot punk rock band that toured the world
39:05times were great then
39:07but on Monday Williams took her life
39:09her manager found her in the woods near his home in stores
39:12plasmatic singer Wendy O. Williams is dead
39:15she died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound at her Connecticut home
39:19it was completely shocking to me
39:22obviously it was impossibly upsetting
39:25I can see how somebody at some stage of their life
39:29clearly might want to say I've had enough
39:32but when somebody does it at the age of 48
39:36when they've accomplished so much
39:37it's harder to get closure on it
39:40when I got that devastating news man
39:43it just blew my mind
39:45even if I think about it now
39:46you know it kind of give me chills a little bit
39:49I didn't see that coming
39:50that's what shocked me
39:52that's what surprised me
39:53like what?
39:54you know why would you do that?
39:55but people have their reasons for doing what they do
39:57and I'm not going to sit and question you things that you do
40:01the plasmatics became a sensation in the early 80s
40:05Williams was nominated for a Grammy in 1985
40:08Wendy O. Williams dead at 48
40:10and to this day it's really an upsetting thing for me
40:15I knew there was a void there in her life
40:18she wasn't performing any longer
40:20wasn't on stage
40:21wasn't singing
40:22that may have been one of the things that made her not have an attachment to the rest of the world
40:29I tell you in this world there's so much that just doesn't make any sense to me at all
40:35I mean you know like my music and being able to just let myself go is one of the few breaths of sanity to me in an insane world
40:46I don't want to remember a sad Wendy
40:49I want to remember
40:51I want to remember Wendy
40:53just the monster that she was
40:55she was really the forerunner of like women just getting out there and just mixing it up with the men
41:01like toe to toe with the men
41:02like for her to be able to do a song with Lemmy
41:04and just toe to toe with Lemmy
41:05she's an enigma man
41:13she should be remembered as somebody who stood up for what she believed
41:19pushed back on what she hated and did it with pleasure and relish
41:24you know talking to women after shows they would always say wow you know I'm doing this because of Wendy
41:30Wendy really pushed me to do this
41:33whether it was anti-nuclear marchers in Manhattan
41:36campaigning tirelessly for Jesse Jackson on his presidential campaign
41:41fighting for freedom of expression
41:43Wendy was a strong role model
41:45I tried to surround my daughters with women with strong voices you know
41:50and Wendy she was a voice of empowerment
41:53you know a very cool voice by the way
42:08Wendy's performance her career in the message is still extremely powerful today
42:14fred
42:25right now I think she's turning her grave man
42:28can't believe what's happening
42:30I can't even believe what's happening
42:31i think about that a lot too sometimes
42:33I wonder if Wendy was here what you think about this
42:35I can't imagine what the songs would come up with I miss every day when the Ella
42:48If she was around today she'd probably be going to work taking care of business down a Cybertruck right now
42:53to me Milwaukee was vindication she did what she thought was right and she just kept that up
43:08right until the end you know the world these days could really use wendy o williams is what you're
43:15doing in your mind really for the music or do you really believe in everything that you do back
43:20I am an anarchist you know like where I believe in total freedom for the individual but I don't
43:25mean that liberty is something that gives somebody the right to hurt other people I think she found
43:34that place where she could feel authentic and that's a place a rare place that I don't think
43:40many people actually never get to for wendy that place was in the plasmatics so in that case she
43:47lived a remarkably full life
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