00:00I'm sorry to intervene because even on bail, you were accused of sending most of the bail petitions to a particular judge, Justice Bela Trivedi, who was known not to give bail.
00:10And therefore, as master of the roster, you were accused of actually preventing people from getting bail, Omar Khalid being a classic account.
00:17Well, Rajdeep, it's very well to make this general unsubstantiated allegation.
00:23The facts are to the contrary.
00:25When I was Chief Justice of India and I said we prioritize bail,
00:29in the two years that I was the Chief Justice of India, we granted bail in 21,000 cases.
00:35Over 21,000 individual citizens of India got bail.
00:40And when you say that, well, a particular individual didn't grant, didn't get bail,
00:44I've been on record to say that, well, in my court, A to Z got bail.
00:50Every single individual who deserved bail got bail.
00:54You did not get bail. You.
00:55If you didn't get bail, one second, it was not my court room.
01:02I'll deal with that issue about Justice Bela Trivedi that you raised.
01:05But are you aware of a P?
01:08Pawan Kheda?
01:10Pawan Kheda was sought to be arrested as he was boarding a flight.
01:14Right?
01:17Kaushik, you belong to that part of the country, at Guwahati?
01:20Yes.
01:21His lawyer comes to the Supreme Court at lunchtime and mentions that my client,
01:26my client is being arrested because he said something distasteful.
01:30Let's not make any bones about the fact that what Pawan Kheda said was distasteful.
01:34I mean, Dr. Singhvi himself, when he made that case, said that I don't stand by my client's statement.
01:39My point is it's not a case for arrest.
01:41Who protected him?
01:43The Supreme Court protected him.
01:45Second, your assessment that all cases of bail were assigned to Justice Bela Trivedi is factually incorrect.
01:53It's factually incorrect.
01:54Cases involving bail are dealt with by every single bench of the Supreme Court for the reason that the largest inflow of cases into the Supreme Court are criminal cases.
02:05So every single judge of the Supreme Court deals with criminal cases, which are allotted on a random basis by computer.
02:13What happens is that suppose, Rajdeep, you and Kaushik are in the bench, right?
02:18And you retire.
02:19And then Kaushik joins me in the bench.
02:22Kaushik retires.
02:23After you retire, the case will be attached to Kaushik.
02:27After Kaushik retires, it will be attached to me.
02:30That's the way the Supreme Court really functions.
02:33These are well-established conventions.
02:35Let's not make a grievance about one case into an issue about the system.
02:41The system is, the facts of the system are very, very different.
02:45On an individual case, Rajdeep, you may have a difference of opinion as to whether someone should get bail or otherwise.
02:50The last thing which I want to say is, we have in India the presumption of innocence, which is to say that an individual is presumed to be innocent unless he or she is proven to be guilty.
03:03And that means that ordinarily, bail should be the rule, jail should be the exception.
03:09Equally, we have well-established principles.
03:12Is this individual likely to tamper with the evidence if they are released on bail?
03:18Two, is this individual likely to flee from justice if that individual is granted bail?
03:24Just as individual personal liberty is involved in the grant or refusal of bail, equally, there is a societal element in prosecuting crime.
03:33So, very often, we just ignore the element of societal interest in the prosecution of crime, which is equally important, because you don't want our streets, you don't want our communities to be unsafe for individuals.
03:49So, the work of a judge is not simple by any means, because you are drawing this balance from case to case.
03:57Whether the balance has been drawn correctly in a case or not, by all means, we are free citizens of a free nation, you are entitled to your freedom of speech and expression.
04:06But let's not tarnish the system on the basis of unsubstantiated facts.
04:11Okay, let's move to constitution now.
04:15You often talk about the importance of constitution.
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