- 2 months ago
- #thefutureisfemale
What does it take to thrive as a woman in the male-dominated sectors of aerospace and defence? On this episode of #TheFutureIsFemale Melisa Idris speaks with Dato’ Nonee Ashirin Mohammed Radzi, Executive Chairperson of Global Turbine Asia, and President of the Coalition of Defence Industry (Malaysia).
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00:00Hello and good evening. I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to The Future is Female. This is the show where we
00:16find the extraordinary in every woman. I'm delighted to introduce my guest today,
00:21Datuk Noni Ashirin Muhammad Razi, who's the Executive Chairperson of Global Turbine Asia,
00:26which is a maintenance, repair and overhaul service provider of military and civil engines
00:33in the Southeast Asia region. She's also the President of the Coalition of Defence Industry
00:42Malaysia. Welcome to the show, Datuk Noni. Thank you so much for taking time to talk to me today.
00:48I have yet to interview someone who's in the aerospace and defence industry and I'm curious
00:53to know a little bit about your journey, how you got into this field because if I understand
00:59correctly, you were trained as a lawyer. That's right. So at what point did you pivot into defence
01:05and aerospace and what has kept you in this industry for so many years? Okay. Thank you,
01:11Melissa, for having me on the show. I'm truly excited. And the introduction is also an overwhelming
01:18one being that I lead the defence industry. So this is the story. I'm actually trained as a lawyer
01:25who was called to Lincoln's Inn and I practice as a barrister for a couple of years. However,
01:32in my younger days, in my college days, my dad started Lima, Datuk Razimanan. He started as an organizer
01:41back in 1991. So I grew up with the show, Melissa. And I love the sound of the, you know, engines
01:48of the planes and, you know, men in uniform, why not? So I guess that drew me in the love and the passion
01:59for aerospace industry. I practice for a couple of years. Then I found my way back to the defence
02:06industry. And long story short, it has been good 30 years supporting the armed forces.
02:13Okay. Well, talk to me a little bit about this, the specific sector that you're in,
02:18maintenance, repair and overhaul. So maybe give us an idea of what the sector does, what the,
02:24what this specific subsector does. Okay. It's an ecosystem for sure, right? You build a plane,
02:32you sell the plane and then what happened after sales. So my segment is mainly after sales services.
02:40So you got to maintain and if there is something to be repaired. And of course, you've used the plane
02:47and it's time to make it good. So it's overhaul. So that's where the acronym is maintenance, repair and
02:53overhaul. MRO. MRO. MRO in Malaysia constitute a very important sector in our aerospace industry.
03:03We're quite well known for it. Yes, definitely. You know why? It's because 50% of the aerospace
03:10activity is made of MRO. People who are helping to repair to maintain all the aircraft. And once upon a
03:18time, Melissa, Malaysia Airlines Engineering was the third largest engineering company. So we had a
03:29bunch of really smart Malaysian who repaired many planes for third party airline in the world. So I think
03:38how I would like to describe Malaysians in our sphere is that we are the best value set of people. We are
03:45highly trained. We know what we're doing and we are quite, how do you say, marketable in the
03:52international sphere. Wonderful. Did you, when you first entered this industry, did you see a lot of
03:59women who were in there? I mean, what was that landscape like for women in particular? Well, if you look at
04:05commercially, my time, there wasn't many. Probably women are associated to cabin crew or ground staff. Right.
04:14Because we are pretty, we are prettier than a man for sure. But over the years, it's because of really
04:21the, how do you say, the visionary of our top leadership. We came with the Malaysian Aerospace
04:30Blueprint and that was back in 1995. It was launched and we carried on to revise the blueprint and to make
04:39sure there is the inclusivity of the human capital development. So women is given a fair chance.
04:47However, there are not enough of us. When I first started, of course, I was among the few and I believe
04:54now Malaysia has opened up with the industry to many women who are ambitious. We have many pilots who are
05:02women and of course engineers too. Did you ever envision yourself in the cockpit? Did you ever think that?
05:08Oh my gosh. Okay. Now you're in the boardroom, but did you ever say, hey, maybe in the, I was meant for the
05:14cockpit or the control room for instance? Okay, I'm going to share this secret with you. I, to share with
05:22the audience is whenever I was in a helicopter because I was working for Eurocopter back in 2000,
05:30early 2000. And every time if I have a chance to fly, I'll be beside the pilot. So I've clocked in
05:39many flying hours on helicopters. Of course, I don't have a license, but it's just to make,
05:45because I was so passionate about it. I love flying. So I ensure that, okay guys, go to the back. I'll be with
05:51the pilot next to him. What is that experience like? I mean, so few of us can say we've been in
05:57the cockpit of a helicopter. What is that experience like? I really love it in the sense that because I,
06:04I like to see the instruments. I like to read in terms of, you know, navigational sort of thing.
06:11So you, you, you, I will ask the pilot, you know, at what altitude, how far are we? Are we
06:16traveling at which direction and how fast? So yes, uh, it's because I, I, I love what I do.
06:23You should get your flying license. I know, I know, I know, I know. One day, one day. I would be there
06:28for your inaugural flight. Oh, definitely. I'll remember this. Okay. So, so talk to me about rising
06:35through the ranks. I think it's so important that leaders understand, um, what the, what the ground is
06:41like for the industry that they're in. And clearly you have such an interest, a hands-on interest in
06:46this industry, but as you were rising through the ranks, as you were, um, helming your business in
06:53this male dominated industry, what, if I may ask you to put on the gender lens, what challenges did
07:01you face as a woman rising through this, the defense and aerospace systems? Okay. Um, you must understand
07:09there's two, uh, two parts. One is, uh, uh, customer fronting, which is mainly, uh, ministry of defense
07:16and, uh, aerospace customers. And of course the suppliers. So the people that I work with are big
07:22companies from Europe. Right. Uh, so I have to do balancing, right? So if you ask me about what are the
07:28challenges, uh, from a woman perspective of a business owner, I'm a lady, uh, how do they treat
07:36me is that if, if I can go, uh, in that sort of interpretation, of course, uh, at first instance,
07:43they would think that I am probably the HR or the personal assistance, you know, that's a very, uh,
07:49stereotyping sort of thing. Uh, but I believe that women, um, have, they have an advantage. I mean,
07:56I use the advantage that being that you're a lady, uh, you, you present yourself well and is, uh,
08:03you open the doors fairly easier, uh, because they're welcoming. But however, you must make sure
08:09that you also have the credibility. So you must have knowledge. So, uh, apart from being looking
08:17nice or you have the beauty, beauty and brains. You have the substance to back it up. Definitely.
08:21Because in my, it was a jungle out there in any business, people size you up. People will try to
08:27understand where you're coming from. So it is also that you must present yourself with knowledge.
08:33Do you have to, do you feel like you might have to work two, three times harder to accomplish
08:40what men maybe take for granted or get so easily? Um, it's often said that women have to work two,
08:47three times as hard just to get to the same level as men. Did you feel that way that you have to
08:52prove yourself more? I, I believe that anybody who wants to be successful will have to work hard.
08:57Um, it can be also, uh, uh, you, you with another lady, but if your attitude is not right, you don't
09:05feel that you need to, uh, to do the extra. I don't think anybody would be as successful as they want
09:12it to be. Um, so more personal initiative. It's, it's always the attitude, Melissa. I have to tell
09:20myself that, you know, it, I gotta put on my best shoes and, you know, put on a good, uh, outlook today.
09:27It's always a battle every day. Uh, sometimes I would love to say, Hey, I, I want to relax a little bit.
09:34Uh, but, uh, but no, it's the attitude towards your career. It's the attitude towards your business.
09:39And what is your, um, vision that you present, uh, to people around you, uh, your staff, your
09:48stakeholders, and are you wanting to contribute to the nation? So I believe that I have a bigger dream,
09:54uh, bigger vision that, uh, I'm after. Okay. Do you, do you see more women coming into the
10:00aerospace and defense industry? Definitely. Yeah. At the last, uh, not, uh, 2023 Lima, I've actually
10:07signed a charter with the UN, uh, convention which includes women, uh, it is the diversity,
10:14inclusivity, and gender, um, um, uh, issue. So we, uh, I, I have actually agreed that GTA, Global
10:25Development Asia, uh, my company would start to, as an example, to include more women in the
10:32management and also into the board. Of course, to find a right fit, it's not easy. Uh, even to find,
10:39uh, board directors who are in the aerospace sphere, there are not many. I mean, if I want to
10:44find a nice chairman and to put at the company, and I would look around, I say, who has the aerospace?
10:50And I would say Tan Sri Rafida, at least, uh, because she's on AirAsia, but there are not many of us.
10:56So unless, uh, I think, uh, is, it is a responsibility that we create more women,
11:02educate them into, and have the experience into aerospace and defense.
11:07So how, how do you see that happening? If you were to look at the entire kind of, uh, pipeline of
11:12talent, right? Because if you want to make sure that you have enough women to fill your board seats,
11:18you have to, to grow that pipeline to ensure that there's a sufficient talent pool. What,
11:24what practical steps, when we think about it, everything from kind of workplace culture to,
11:30um, policies that make it more conducive for women to enter this, these industries. What would make
11:35aerospace and defense more welcoming to women? Oh, okay. Uh, because I've gone on the other side of
11:42the fence. Uh, I'm from aerospace and I've gone to be on board of FGV. Oh,
11:48yes. Okay. It's a biggest plantation, all plantation. And it was kind of funny because,
11:53um, uh, our ex minister, Tokpa Mustafa Muhammad, he says, what is an aerospace lady going into
12:00the plantation? So I had to learn, uh, and make sure that I discharge my duty as an independent
12:07director. So equally, I am sure that there are ladies who are willing to learn. So I, I'm scouting around and
12:15to bring in more women. I think that is part and parcel of my endeavor, uh, and invite them into the
12:21board room. And so they will have that sense of, uh, you know, to understand what are the challenges.
12:28And I don't think it's a, is, is a showstopper for a lady to learn into aerospace because I've done the
12:34same thing into plantation. Uh, so again, as I believe that there are many talented, uh, potentially
12:40lady or women directors who can be, uh, groomed into the space sector. Can I ask you when you look
12:47at the entire industry, the sector as a whole, where do you see the biggest opportunities for, um,
12:52women in aerospace and defense? Do you see it in engineering? Do you see it in, you know, um,
12:59um, leadership, design, boardroom, in space exploration, in, in pilots? Where, where do you see?
13:07Funny you said, uh, one of the things that I love. So I'm going to take a little bit of your time.
13:11Sure. Okay. Uh, with the good university programs, uh, they have rolled out actually many, uh, uh, engineers,
13:19uh, you know, young girls and boys, uh, equally into the engineering. So it's about the working level.
13:27Yes, there are many already. And there are also pilot schools, uh, which welcome, uh, talented, uh, women
13:34into the flight path, right? To command an aircraft. Now, the difficult thing is to command at higher level
13:42when it comes to space, defense, or aerospace. To tell you the truth in defense, I can just name a few,
13:49or ladies, uh, uh, how do you say business owners. They are actually into defense. So we are not
13:57that many. Therefore, uh, to scale up, um, the, the level of, uh, networking into defense. So we have, uh,
14:08chartered a, a conference that we speak about women in defense, security, and peace. Uh, so I hope that
14:16through some networking at this kind of conferences will actually create more opportunities for women.
14:22So we have been talking about this. Uh, so if you look it up, Melissa, um, we kind of put the
14:29ecosystem together. So that's addressing the defense sector. Now let's talk about space. Oh my God.
14:35Tell me. Okay. What, what is the vision that you have for Malaysia in the space race?
14:42I, I, I, I confused everybody in the office, my staff. And when the last lima, I said, look,
14:49I don't know what it is, but we got to go into the space race. I said to them, if that lady,
14:56all those bunch of ladies can go up to the space. Oh, you're talking about the Virgin,
15:01the Blue Virgin flight. It's the, uh, Katy Perry and the whole, whole lot. Surely, uh, the space is,
15:09the race for space is now free for all. It's being, uh, how do you say, undemocratized. Everybody can
15:17actually have a swing at it. Um, so it was a little bit awful for the staff because they don't know what
15:23sort of direction. However, once we put up something, a showcase at Lima, please look it up.
15:29The space segment, it was first ever, uh, a space segment, which we invited the Russian cosmonaut.
15:38Uh, he came from Yuri Gagarin, Moscow, uh, cosmonaut training center. We had Tan Sri Mazlan Othman.
15:45Yes, our, our superstar, the lady in space, the rock star. Yes, uh, she was there. And, uh, what I did was
15:54I created a foundation. It's called Noni Ashirin Foundation. We are now supporting the, um, uh, creation
16:03of school for young cosmonaut for school kids to be exposed, uh, to space programs or just to make sure
16:12that they, they, they can dream of going to space. And this is with the Russian cosmonaut program.
16:18Uh, it is wide reaching. It's just that people coming together and giving, uh, giving Malaysia,
16:28uh, that inspiration that we shouldn't stop aiming for the Mars, no longer the moon going to Mars or
16:35Jupiter. And, uh, what was interesting is that, um, the, I saw something in Penang when the Chinese
16:43came in, they had a very, they have a very big, uh, planetarium that educates the public. Okay.
16:51They would show in 3D in the whole motions of things on how their space exploration, uh, the foray of
16:59things are being done. So I want to do the same thing. I'm not interested in military satellites or
17:05whatever that you said. I think let's look at educating our young folks. I want to go into the
17:12space because at that point I saw the man walking on the moon and I said, mom, I want to be, become an
17:17astronaut, but at least there was a dream. Yeah. And now I'm helping hopefully some young kids that
17:25maybe one day completely because the importance of dreaming or shooting for the stars cannot be
17:36overstated. We, I think sometimes we dismiss young children's dreams like that. We think, oh,
17:42you know, don't be silly, but there is such joy and wonder of dreaming big, thinking that you can be
17:50more. And sometimes space programs, I know they cost a lot of money, but the, the vision and the dream
17:58that it instills in a population is amazing. The value cannot be recreated. Um, I do have to ask you,
18:08so, so there's a lot of, uh, with, with aerospace, with defense, with aviation, there's a lot of push and
18:13pull. Um, you know, there's the part of it that's wonderful. That's dream of like shoot for the stars,
18:19dreamer quality. There is another part, which is also very real and, um, not so positive. So the
18:27defense industry is, is really opaque. It's, um, you know, it's got issues with governance and in this
18:33day and age where, um, you know, the world is in turmoil, there's so much death and destruction.
18:39We're in the age of a genocide. Um, how do you look at it? Someone within the industry,
18:45um, when you think about juggling commercial interests, national security, um,
18:54your willing, your, your part as a human, as a woman, your humanity in this world, how do you make
19:01sense of it all? And I'm asking really, because I think it's a tough, it's a tough time to be alive
19:08and to be a woman. And I'm sure in this industry, it's not easy. Uh, Melissa, uh, how you said,
19:14how do I make sense of things? Um, I can't make sense of things. It's just, we were sharing that,
19:22you know, uh, Israeli launched, uh, attacks into Qatar, into Doha. I have friends in Doha. Um,
19:30um, I was in Europe a few months ago. People were having nice time, uh, having summer holidays and yet
19:39people, uh, um, you know, being, being made homeless in Gaza. Children are dying from hunger.
19:46There's a lot of disparity. It's, it's a world, uh, which is very complicated, um, from what we are used
19:54to 30 years ago when I was growing up. Of course, I feel that, uh, the future, our future generation
20:01will have to be a lot, uh, tougher because everything is moving super fast and a lot of uncertainty.
20:09Hence, uh, somebody that have seen a lot of things, uh, defense sector should be used in terms of
20:17peacekeeping. Uh, it's not about warmongering or destruction. Yes, there's some, uh, specific set
20:28of people who use it for their, uh, political, um, how do you say, intentions or, um, you know, to, to,
20:38to, to position themselves. Uh, but countries like us, we must be, uh, how do you say,
20:45um, loud speaking or to take our stand that we want peace and whatever that we invest into is
20:53about self-defense and to make sure that whatever peace that we have, uh, for our nation in the
20:59region is well protected. So, uh, we have some crazy people out there, but nevertheless, uh, we got to
21:07do what is right for the, for our kids. Uh, we have to do what is right for human race. Uh, when I was
21:13talking to Tan Sri, Tan Sri Mazlan Othman, we are, when we talk about space program, it's about the
21:18human race going into space. There's nothing about your Malaysian or whatever. It's about the human
21:24race. So there is a bigger agenda that when we speak about this. So I hope that, uh, part of the
21:30nation building is to ensure that our children is fighting for the human race as a whole, because it's
21:37no longer about, uh, being very much nationalistic anymore. The world is shrinking. I think people
21:43should know this, uh, in a split second, whatever that happens in Malaysia is known, uh, as it goes.
21:52That's the reality of things. Therefore, whatever that we are doing in defense, self-reliance,
21:57peacekeeping, R and D into strategic security is, is inevitable because, uh, we have to protect
22:06whatever that we have on this side of the world. And I believe Malaysians are so lucky because I'm
22:14quite well traveled. Um, I will share with you that where there's Ukrainian and the Russians are at war.
22:21People, uh, just, uh, feeling so afraid, uh, they will come together and trying to find how do they
22:28help to these people are being displaced. Even in Europe, it's not just about people in Gaza. So, uh,
22:36surely we don't want to, to even think that one day our children will face the same thing.
22:42Whatever that we have that we take for granted, such as peace, neutrality, uh, serenity, and you know,
22:50whatever that we have in Malaysia shouldn't be taken for granted. So, my commitment is always to
22:56make sure that whatever the armed forces, we, uh, support them in terms of my defense activities
23:01because whatever they're doing is for all of us to ensure that we don't, there's somebody to
23:07protect us. It was kind of funny. I just share one, uh, one story. I was diving, uh, as a family
23:13activity. We scuba dive in Sipadan. So, I was at the resort and there were snipers. All right. And of
23:22course, the border, that area. Of course, you know, Sipadan is a very sensitive area. And the,
23:28the remark was coming from Indep. I said, I can see your snipers. I can see the troops coming in
23:33because they're on the shift. I said, it is for your security, Datuk. We take care of the people.
23:39So, there's a lot that whenever there is Merdeka Day, I have a lot of, um, uh, how do you say,
23:47uh, good, good feelings and on and to support our armed forces because I know there's a lot of
23:52sacrifice, uh, sacrifices that they have done, uh, to make sure that we are safe. Uh, so let's not take
23:58it for granted. Absolutely. And in the couple minutes that we have left, I do want to ask you. So, uh,
24:04what would you say, Datuk, to young women watching today? You know, a young woman who
24:09may be listening and thinking, I'm passionate about engineering. I'm passionate about aerospace.
24:14I may have a dream to go into space one day, but she's not quite sure whether that there is a place
24:20for her. What is the advice or one piece of honest advice you would give to her if you made it?
24:27Never stop dreaming. Yes. I mean, um, you know, dreams do come true and we have a lot of, uh,
24:37perseverance. And of course, berdoa, you pray, uh, that your dreams would come true and a bit of
24:44luck. And I'm sure, uh, your prayers will be heard and you'll be part of this lovely ecosystem.
24:51And if you ask me, would I have done something differently in my life? I wouldn't.
24:55This is for you. Yes. And I would still carry on. Um, God bless inshallah for the next 15,
25:0220 years is to make sure that, uh, there will be a lot of, uh, interesting aerospace and space
25:08things for Malaysians. May there be many, many other women who come behind you. Definitely.
25:13Definitely. Thank you so much for being on the show with me. It's been such a joy to talk to you.
25:16Thank you. Likewise, Melissa. Thank you. That's all the time we have for you on this episode of
25:21The Futures Female. I'm Melissa Idris signing off for the evening. Thank you so much for watching.
25:25Good night.
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