00:00Well, let's go back to our breaking news this hour, and Brazil's former right-wing
00:04president Jair Bolsonaro has been found guilty of attempting a coup, which culminated in his
00:10supporters breaking into and then vandalizing government buildings after he lost the last
00:15election. The verdict, along with other charges that he's facing, means that he could be looking
00:21at a decades-long prison sentence. Well, let's go live to Brasilia, where that court case has
00:27been proceeding. We can speak to Gustavo Ribeiro. He's editor-in-chief of the Brazilian Report.
00:33Gustavo, thanks for joining us on BBC News. This news just coming to us in the last half
00:38an hour or so. Was it expected or anticipated that he would be found guilty?
00:44Thanks for having me. Yes, the trial was not necessarily anticipated because it was mysterious.
00:53I mean, when we look at the trajectory of the justices that are involved in this case,
00:59we pretty much knew how they would lean, and it has gone so far according to expectations.
01:06There are five justices that are voting on this case. Four have already voted. We have a 3-1 score
01:12to convict all eight defendants, including Jair Bolsonaro, who is set to be convicted for leading
01:20a criminal investigation and become the first Brazilian president ever convicted for staging
01:26a coup d'etat. And what could this mean when we get to the sentencing hearing, Gustavo?
01:34Well, Bolsonaro is expected to face at least 30 years in prison. His sentencing could go north of 40
01:44years in prison. It remains to be seen whether he will serve that under house arrest or in a federal
01:51police facility as customary for former head of state. But now what is going to be interesting is
02:01to see how that affects Bolsonarism, which is the far-right movement that has grown much larger than
02:08Bolsonaro. And some say that this trial does not end tomorrow when sentencing is expected to be
02:16done. But next year, when we have an election, because conservatives that are trying to cater
02:22to Bolsonaro's hardcore supporters, about a quarter to one-third of the Brazilian electorate,
02:28they promise to grant amnesty to Bolsonaro day one after they stepped into office.
02:34So this will also be a big issue in next year's presidential election.
02:40And indeed, there's quite the international element to this as well, Gustavo, isn't there? I mean,
02:45even in terms of trade talks between Brazil and the US, we've seen President Trump linking this trial
02:51to the need, as he sees it, to impose big tariffs on Brazil.
02:56Yes, exactly. I would say that the international element is one, the Brazilian Supreme Court has
03:02thoroughly exposed the strategy of far-right movements that are employed worldwide.
03:09And like you said, Donald Trump has used this trial as one of the justifications for punishing Brazil
03:17with 50 percent tariffs on most of our exports, which have had a major impact on Brazilian trading data
03:25in August already. And he has targeted the Supreme Court justices. Eight of the 11 Supreme Court justices
03:33have had their U.S. visas canceled. And one of them, who is the justice who oversees this case,
03:41has been targeted by U.S. sanctions that pretty much exclude him from the global financial system.
03:48So it is, it has been, it has taken a heavy toll on these justices to carry out, to pursue this case.
03:57And Gustavo, I know this verdict has just come down in the last few moments,
04:01but has there been any response yet from the current president?
04:06No. And I mean, President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, who was the victim of the coup d'etat that
04:14Bolsonaro has been found guilty of leading, he has tried his best not to comment on this because he does
04:21not want the optics to be meddling with this trial. He wants to show that the Brazilian branches of
04:30government are independent and that the Supreme Court is carrying this trial without any interference
04:36from the government.
