- 5 months ago
This episode of India First discusses the shifting dynamics in US-India trade negotiations following President Donald Trump's varied rhetoric and Prime Minister Narendra Modi's response.
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00:00Good evening. There is a new conciliatory tone in US President Donald Trump in his messages.
00:07He seems to have adopted some kind of a new tone.
00:10Now, he's taken to a social media platform to say, and I quote,
00:13I'm pleased to announce that India and the United States of America are continuing negotiations to address the trade barriers between our two nations.
00:22I look forward to speaking with my very good friend, Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in the upcoming weeks.
00:28I feel certain there will be no difficulty in coming to a successful conclusion for both our great country.
00:36Mark change from initially writing that India is a dead economy and that India and Russia have been lost to the deepest, darkest China.
00:44Is this a change of heart or is this another part of those negotiation tactics that he seems to adopt?
00:50Trump tariffs, trade and talks
01:00Trump-Modi ties reset
01:06But is US pushing EU tariffs?
01:17Reports
01:18US call for EU tariffs on India
01:21India holds firm amid Trump tariffs
01:28Trump's trade wars to trade talks.
01:37That is our big focus on India first.
01:44Prime Minister Narendra Modi has also responded positively in public domain.
01:49He said, India and the US are close friends and natural partners.
01:53Because I'm confident that our trade negotiations will pave the way for unlocking the limitless potential of the India-US partnership.
02:01Our teams are working to conclude these deals at the earliest.
02:04I'm also looking forward to speaking with President Trump.
02:07We will work together to secure a brighter, more prosperous future for both our people.
02:12The question we are asking on this broadcast, is the US in damage control mode, especially post the Tianjin-Shangai cooperation organization summit?
02:22Or is the US just using this as part of its blow-hot, blow-cold tactics?
02:28Because there are others in Trump's team who continue to adopt a hard line.
02:34Also coming up on India first, the army has taken control of violence in streets of Nepal with curfew clamped.
02:40Of course, there's an appeal to writers to maintain peace.
02:43And coming up at 8.30 tonight, Israel's ambassador to India, Ambassador Reuven Azhar, explains why Israel bombed Qatar.
02:51He also responds to Kerala Chief Minister Pindrai Vijayan, hitting out at India's investment pact with Israel amidst Gaza operations.
02:58I'm Gaurav Savant.
02:59As always, let's get started with the headlines on India first.
03:03Uneasy calm on the streets of Nepal after the army takes control.
03:12Kathmandu International Airport reopens.
03:14Curfew to stay in place till 6 in the morning.
03:17India Today continues to report from Ground Zero.
03:22India Today is now giving you exclusive pictures from inside Nepal's parliament, which was set on fire.
03:29You can see the flames which are still ablaze inside the floor of the House of the Parliament.
03:40As Nepal limps towards normalcy, consensus among Gen Z protesters builds through an online voting to make former Chief Justice of Nepal, Sushila Kharki, as the head of the government.
03:53Amid's political turmoil blocked everything protests intensified in France, buses set on fire, roads and trains blocked nearly 200 people arrested, 80,000 security forces deployed on ground across France.
04:14Big move towards a nationwide special intensive revision of the electoral rolls.
04:25The Election Commission of India holds a key meeting with Chief Electoral Officers and directs them to finish paperwork and start preparations.
04:33Legal battle over Sanjay Kapoor's wealth intensifies Delhi High Court asks Priya Sajdev Kapoor to list out Sanjay's assets.
04:48A plea was filed by actor Karishma Kapoor's children seeking their fair share.
04:55Is U.S. President Donald Trump now in damage control mode after calling the Indian economy dead and saying that the U.S. had lost India and Russia to deepest, darkest China?
05:14Now, President Trump took to Truth Social to talk about the ongoing trade negotiations.
05:20He also said, I look forward to speaking with my very good friend, Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in the upcoming weeks.
05:28Prime Minister Modi responded cautiously, saying India and the U.S. are close friends and natural partners,
05:34and that he too is looking forward to speaking with President Trump to work together to secure a brighter, more prosperous future for both our people.
05:42Now, Trump had also recently been quoted as asking, or American media was writing, that Trump was seeking European Union to impose 100% tariffs on India and China.
05:55Both Peter Navarro and Howard Latnik continue to adopt a hard line.
05:59So what should one make of this blow-hot, blow-cold tactics of the United States of America ahead of a trade deal with the U.S.?
06:09Because India is the highest, one of the highest tariff nations in the world.
06:14It's Diwali, ma'ap to a bohat bada taupha.
06:17These wach wakum mille waala.
06:18That means they do it to us and we do it to them.
06:23A global diplomatic thaw on social media.
06:26Donald Trump reaches out.
06:28Prime Minister Modi responds.
06:31The two leaders, once locked in tariff battles, now warming to renewed trade talks.
06:36We missed you. We missed you a lot.
06:38This apparent reset follows weeks of taunts and threats from Trump's closest advisers, Commerce, Treasury and the White House.
06:47It was a shame to see Modi getting in bed as the leader of the biggest democracy in the world with the two biggest authoritarian dictators in the world in Putin and Xi Jinping.
06:59That doesn't make any sense.
07:02I'm not sure what he's thinking, particularly since India has been in a cold war and sometimes a hot war with China for decades.
07:11But the very tariffs meant to pressure India may have boomeranged back on the US economy.
07:20Moody's warns, America is on the edge of recession.
07:24JP Morgan calls the economy weakening.
07:27Deloitte forecasts a downturn by year-end.
07:30The triggers, falling investment, rising costs and Trump's trade wars.
07:37The latest shock is a Labour report showing nearly a million fewer jobs than reported earlier.
07:43Weakened growth, falling profitability and rising inflation all point to deep economic stress.
07:51Manufacturers are squeezed by higher steel and copper costs.
07:54Farmers are hurting more, soybean exports down 30%, corn prices up 18%.
08:01Retaliation from China and Canada has slashed incomes and triggered layoffs.
08:07For ordinary Americans, the pain is double.
08:10Lower wages and higher prices.
08:13University of Pennsylvania economists project a 5% decline in wages
08:18with a typical middle-income household losing $22,000 over a lifetime because of the tariffs.
08:28Half a world away, India tells a different story.
08:32Strong economic growth, retail inflation at an 8-year low
08:35and the GST windfall adding momentum to the economy.
08:39I think if you take the GST into consideration,
08:45the impact of tariffs and the GST,
08:49the compensating effects of GST rate reductions and process reform
08:52could probably give us a 0.2 to 0.3% on a net basis
08:57in terms of drag on the GDP estimates that we have
09:00of 6.3 to 6.8 for the current financial year.
09:04Trump's tariffs were meant to bend India.
09:07Instead, they weakened America's hand
09:10and pushed India, Russia and China closer together.
09:15In hindsight, the olive branch may not be about friendship,
09:19but about survival.
09:21We are a report, Business Today TV.
09:27So, a conciliatory tone here.
09:31And then White House, American media saying
09:33White House is talking about 100% tariffs
09:36that EU should impose on India and China.
09:38What should one make of the voices
09:41that are emerging from the United States of America?
09:43I have a power-packed panel joining me on the show.
09:46Dr. Walter Ladwig is Senior Associate Professor
09:50of International Relations at King's College London.
09:52Joins me on the broadcast.
09:53Ambassador Mohan Kumar, former ambassador to France.
09:56Ambassador Ashok Sajjanhar, former Deputy Chief of Mission
09:58to the European Union, Belgium and Luxembourg.
10:01Seema Sirohi, a very well-respected columnist
10:03and author of Friends with Benefits,
10:05the India-US story.
10:07In a moment, we will be joined by Arun Kumar Sharma,
10:10Senior Associate at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
10:13But Dr. Ladwig, President Trump wrote
10:16that he looks forward to speaking with his very good friend,
10:21Prime Minister Modi in the upcoming weeks.
10:23He is certain there will be no difficulty
10:25in a successful conclusion of a trade deal
10:29for our great countries.
10:31Do you see this as damage control exercised by President Trump?
10:34What do you make of this truth social post?
10:37Well, I hope you're not expecting me to explain Trump
10:41to the world or make sense of his actions.
10:43But I will simply say that in some respects,
10:46we've seen this story before.
10:47If we go back to the first Trump administration,
10:49we do remember all of the accomplishments
10:52in national security cooperation and defense
10:54between the U.S. and India.
10:56But there were some real bad periods of time on trade.
10:59Trump used to call India the trade or the tariff king
11:02or the tariff queen.
11:04In 2019, he withdrew the GSP preferences for India.
11:09There were arguments about Harley Davidsons and so forth.
11:12So unfortunately, this seems to be part of his belligerent tactic
11:15of sort of browbeating and bullying aside
11:18and then trying to kind of assume that sort of softens things up
11:22and then try to put out a hand of friendship.
11:25And so we may just be seeing a more enhanced,
11:28a more extreme version of that story.
11:31Okay.
11:32But Dr. Ladwig, in your view,
11:34are we over the hill when it comes to the bullying tactics
11:37or will they continue to blow hot, blow cold
11:40till the time a deal is inked something perhaps by October, November?
11:44Look, I desperately hope so
11:47because these two countries have a range of interests
11:49in national security and defense,
11:52the future of the Indo-Pacific
11:54that are much bigger and more important
11:56than trade ties and a couple percentages of tariffs.
11:59The real concern here is that Trump risks blowing big holes
12:02in a bilateral relationship
12:04that successive U.S. administrations
12:07have spent two and a half decades trying to build.
12:10And, you know, his proxies in particular
12:14have been going around saying
12:15some of the most horrible, insulting things.
12:17And it's going to take a long time to come back from that
12:19or say, oh, that was just a negotiating tactic.
12:23Okay.
12:23Seema Sirohi, how does this square up with reports
12:25coming from the United States
12:27that White House wants the European Union
12:29to impose 100% tariffs on China and India for Russian oil?
12:33Yeah, so the picture is not clear at all.
12:39And it may be part of a choreography
12:42that a lot of people in Washington
12:45said that it was Trump's biggest strategic mistake
12:52to blow a hole through the India relationship.
12:56So maybe he's trying to claw back some of that.
13:01And I would say that on the one side,
13:08Peter Navarro is saying the most obnoxious things.
13:12On the other side, President Trump
13:14is trying to create a common space.
13:18I think Navarro is sort of taking care of the MAGA crowd
13:23while the White House tries to do business
13:27with other countries.
13:28So as I wrote today in my column,
13:32that nothing is clear and it's all very rocky.
13:39The FT report that he had asked,
13:42Trump had asked the Europeans to put 100% tariffs on India
13:46to put more pressure on Russia is an example.
13:51So this pleasantries being exchanged
13:54between the Prime Minister and the President
13:56is all well and good.
13:59I would say if a trade deal can be signed quickly,
14:04sooner rather than later,
14:07that would be the only positive sign,
14:09I would say concrete positive sign.
14:12Okay, so all of this is very fluid right now.
14:15Ambassador Mohan Kumar,
14:16but would the European Union risk its supply chains
14:19and trade with China and India
14:20and impose additional tariffs?
14:22Or can they, like the US,
14:26threaten China but impose tariffs only on India?
14:30Or would they rather not do that at all?
14:31My sense is that the EU may not act on this threat,
14:40but frankly, Gaurav,
14:42if there is no discrimination against India
14:45and if the EU can bring down its imports of energy to zero,
14:50if the US can cut its imports from Russia to zero,
14:55they do buy some fertilizer,
14:58some palladium and some uranium.
15:01If everybody,
15:02and if China brings it down to zero,
15:04then my advice to India will be,
15:07look at it.
15:08You don't want to be the only one really doing this.
15:11But short of that,
15:12India's main position has been
15:14that we are discriminated against in this whole thing.
15:18But really reacting to what some of your other co-panelists said,
15:22my sense is there is mixed messaging coming out of Washington
15:25and there is good cop, bad cop, obviously.
15:30But where I think I disagree with what some people said before me
15:35is that I don't think it's just about trade, frankly.
15:39There are other issues
15:41which are currently bedeviling the relationship.
15:45One is certainly,
15:46he's getting extremely irritated at Putin and Russia
15:49and he's taking it out on others
15:51and one of them can be India
15:54in terms of collateral damage.
15:56There is also,
15:57I think,
15:57the personal peak at India
16:00for whatever reason.
16:01There,
16:02I think I'm happy
16:03that the two leaders
16:04at least have made it up
16:06and I'm glad they are talking
16:08in terms of meeting.
16:09Although from an Indian perspective,
16:11I would like them to meet
16:13after the trade deal is done,
16:15not before.
16:16I frankly think it's much better
16:18for the two leaders to meet
16:19once the negotiators
16:21have really sorted out
16:23the thorny issues.
16:24My sense,
16:25by the way,
16:26and I might be the only person
16:27on the panel who says it,
16:29I really think
16:3099% of the trade deal is done.
16:33In my view,
16:33this was never about just trade.
16:36There were a lot of other issues
16:37which were brought in
16:38and in any case
16:39with President Trump,
16:41it's not just about trade
16:43because there was Russian oil,
16:44there was maybe a personal peak
16:46associated with Pakistan,
16:48Nobel Prize,
16:49whatever.
16:50So,
16:50I think we are looking
16:51at a whole range of issues.
16:53But I'm personally happy
16:54that other conversations
16:56between India
16:58and the US
16:59have continued.
17:01And that includes
17:01even the joint military exercise.
17:04So,
17:04that's good news.
17:06Yes.
17:06And since you mentioned
17:07the good cop,
17:08bad cop routine,
17:09Ambassador Sajjan Har,
17:11White House Trade Advisor,
17:12Peter Navarro,
17:13quoted as saying
17:14in the American media,
17:16words to the effect
17:16that Trump's post
17:17is a chance for India
17:19to apologize
17:20and deal with the US
17:21or it won't end well
17:24for India
17:24if they don't come around soon.
17:26So,
17:26is that only for the MAGA crowd
17:29or they're playing this
17:30good cop,
17:31bad cop
17:32and,
17:32you know,
17:33isn't he vitiating the pitch
17:35or the atmosphere further?
17:38No,
17:38absolutely.
17:39Gaurav,
17:39thank you very much
17:40for having me.
17:41You're right.
17:41I think it could be
17:42a good cop,
17:43bad cop.
17:44But,
17:44you know,
17:44as some of the other panelists
17:46have said,
17:47it's,
17:47you know,
17:48very difficult to decipher
17:50what President Trump
17:51actually has in mind.
17:53But,
17:53you know,
17:54there is also the speculation
17:55that all these people,
17:56Peter Navarro,
17:57Howard Lutnik,
17:58etc.,
17:59you know,
17:59they might be
18:01basically parroting
18:02what Trump
18:03has been saying
18:05largely to curry favor
18:07with Trump
18:08because,
18:09you know,
18:09he's given them
18:10adequate latitude.
18:11Okay,
18:12you know,
18:12they have used
18:13even expressions
18:14like,
18:16you know,
18:16it is benefiting
18:17the Brahmins
18:18at the expense
18:20of ordinary Indian people
18:22and it's Modi's war,
18:24etc.
18:24So,
18:25you know,
18:25these are very,
18:26very derogatory remarks,
18:28insulting remarks.
18:29But,
18:30you know,
18:30they are just trying
18:31to amplify
18:32Trump's message.
18:34But now,
18:35I would imagine
18:36that Trump
18:37has changed his tune.
18:38Possibly,
18:39these
18:40worthies
18:41would also
18:42tamper down
18:43on their
18:44pronouncements
18:45and hopefully
18:46we will not see
18:47any more of it.
18:48But I think...
18:49I think the reason
18:55for this,
18:56why Mr. Trump
18:56is making this change,
18:58number one,
18:59India has stood firm
19:00in the face
19:01of all these
19:02threats and coercion.
19:03India has not
19:04capitulated
19:04like most of the
19:06other countries,
19:07whether Japan,
19:07Korea,
19:08Indonesia,
19:09this,
19:09that and the other.
19:10And then also,
19:11I think the messaging
19:12that went out,
19:13the signaling
19:13that went out,
19:15both from Tianjin,
19:16after the images
19:18that came out
19:19from Tianjin
19:20of the three leaders
19:21and also
19:22of the
19:23virtual meeting
19:24that was organized
19:26by President Lula
19:27of the BRICS countries.
19:30And I think
19:31they took a
19:31unified stand
19:33there
19:33and sent out
19:34a very clear
19:35message to America
19:36as far as
19:38these high tariffs
19:38are concerned.
19:40Fair enough.
19:40I want to bring in
19:41Arun Kumar Sharma
19:42quickly into this
19:43conversation.
19:43Mr. Sharma,
19:44strategic partners
19:45and trade
19:46require predictability.
19:48India-US ties
19:49and especially
19:49under Trump 2.0,
19:51there is no
19:51predictability.
19:52You have no idea
19:53what he may say
19:54or do tomorrow.
19:55We are told,
19:56you know,
19:56as Ambassador
19:57Mohan Kumar
19:57was also pointing
19:58out,
19:58a framework
19:59was ready
20:00by July.
20:0199% ready
20:02by July
20:04and suddenly
20:04things change
20:06because when
20:06Prime Minister
20:07Narendra Modi
20:07went to America
20:08in February,
20:10they worked out
20:11how things
20:11would be done.
20:12So,
20:13social media
20:13posts clearly
20:14cannot be the
20:15only way
20:15for India
20:16and America
20:17to comprehensive
20:18strategic partners
20:19to remain in
20:20touch unless
20:20the level of
20:21trust is so
20:22low.
20:22You say
20:23anything privately,
20:24it may just
20:24be misconstrued
20:25tomorrow.
20:27So,
20:27the issue is
20:28I think that
20:29we have to
20:30really recognize
20:30reality.
20:31Reality is the
20:32following,
20:33that President
20:34Trump is
20:35playing a
20:35multi-country
20:36game.
20:37It's not only
20:37just to miss
20:38India.
20:39India is only
20:39one factor.
20:40He is optimizing
20:41for Russia,
20:42he is optimizing
20:43for China,
20:43he is optimizing
20:44for EU,
20:45and he is
20:45optimizing for
20:46India.
20:47That is the
20:47harsh reality.
20:49That's the first
20:49point.
20:50The second
20:50point is that
20:51he is very
20:52transactional,
20:53as we have
20:53discussed on
20:54this panel
20:54multiple times.
20:55And long-term
20:57relationships really
20:58don't matter to
21:00this President.
21:00That's very,
21:01very clear,
21:01certainly the
21:02relationship with
21:02India.
21:04The long-term
21:04damage is not,
21:06nobody is really
21:07taking into account
21:08the damage
21:10that has been
21:10done, I would
21:11say, and
21:12they'll take a
21:12long time to
21:13repair, in the
21:14trust that was
21:15built up over
21:15the last 20,
21:1625 years.
21:17And memories
21:18of our previous
21:19estranged
21:20democracy times
21:21have really
21:22become, I
21:23think, very
21:23fresh in the
21:24establishment in
21:25New Delhi.
21:26I have no doubt
21:27about that.
21:28That's the second
21:29point.
21:29The third point
21:30is I think as a
21:31global hegemonic
21:32power, I think
21:33President Trump
21:34is a believer in
21:35unpredictability,
21:36just to keep
21:37people off
21:38balance.
21:38so that he
21:39can put pressure
21:40on them because
21:41they're always
21:41guessing what
21:42the United States
21:44will do next
21:44and they can't
21:45really prepare
21:45and position
21:47themselves for
21:47the next
21:48conversation.
21:49And the
21:50fourth point,
21:50I think, is
21:51very clear,
21:52this good
21:52bad cop type
21:55of point,
21:56where he's
21:57basically saying,
21:59listen, we
21:59have people
22:01who are going
22:03to take our
22:04extreme positions,
22:05we will convey
22:05our extreme
22:06positions to put
22:07the Indians
22:08on the defensive
22:09and on the
22:10other hand,
22:10he wants to
22:11keep the
22:11channel of
22:12communication
22:12open,
22:13which is why
22:13we are getting
22:14these, you
22:15know, random
22:15conciliatory
22:16statements that
22:17come suddenly
22:18after really a
22:19barrage of
22:20nasty vaks.
22:20Okay, Dr.
22:22Ladvig, India
22:24is looking for
22:25what has often
22:26been described
22:27as a fair
22:28and balanced
22:28agreement for
22:30both the
22:30countries.
22:31U.S. has
22:32tried to ram
22:33through agreements
22:33that keep
22:34America first.
22:35So, is there
22:36a middle ground?
22:37Is there a
22:38meeting ground?
22:38Because with
22:39several partners
22:40and including,
22:42you know, as
22:42some even on
22:43our panel have
22:44argued that
22:45his America
22:47first policy is
22:48partially responsible
22:48for the resignation
22:50of the Japanese
22:50Prime Minister,
22:51for example,
22:52will the U.S.
22:53President be
22:54agreeable to a
22:55win-win and not
22:56U.S. take all
22:57like he's done
22:58either with
22:59countries like
23:00Japan or
23:01South Korea,
23:01Indonesia,
23:02Vietnam or
23:03the European
23:03Union?
23:05So, I think
23:06Trump at his
23:07heart is more
23:07concerned with
23:08sort of style
23:09over substance.
23:10So, something
23:11that could be
23:11packaged as a
23:12win is what
23:15he's looking for.
23:16I mean, if we
23:17really want to
23:17look at nuts and
23:18bolts,
23:18trade between
23:20the U.S.
23:21and India
23:21is not huge
23:23compared to
23:24other big
23:24economies and
23:25other big
23:26nations.
23:27So, the
23:27things that
23:28they're arguing
23:28over and the
23:29percentages and
23:30the specific
23:31industries are
23:32not significant
23:34in terms of
23:36some of these
23:38negative trends
23:39that you're
23:39reporting identified
23:40for the U.S.
23:41economy.
23:41So, I think
23:42as long as it
23:42allows him to
23:43claim some
23:45sort of victory
23:45and claim that
23:46he was able to
23:48negotiate,
23:48down or talk
23:50Prime Minister
23:50Modi into
23:51something,
23:52that's at the
23:54end of the
23:54day really what
23:55he's looking
23:55for.
23:57And is he
23:58likely to get
23:58that by all
23:59accounts,
24:00Ambassador
24:00Mohan Kumar?
24:01Some of the
24:02countries, you
24:03know, they may
24:04have kowtowed to
24:06America.
24:07India clearly
24:08hasn't done that
24:09impact and now
24:09some of these
24:10countries, I'm
24:11told there's a
24:12rethink even in
24:14the European
24:14Union, South
24:15Korea is not
24:16too happy.
24:17In Japan, the
24:17Prime Minister had
24:18to put in his
24:18papers.
24:20Is that going to
24:21have an adverse
24:22impact on Trump?
24:23Great negotiations,
24:26Gaurav, are a
24:27funny thing.
24:28It actually
24:29allows both
24:30sides to claim
24:31victory at the
24:32same time.
24:33And that will
24:33not be obvious.
24:34I completely
24:35agree with Dr.
24:36Walde.
24:36You will have to
24:37somehow give a
24:38victory to both
24:39sides.
24:40Both sides can
24:41handle their
24:41domestic audience
24:42by saying we
24:43have won.
24:44And that means
24:45essentially that
24:46India will have
24:47to say our red
24:48lines have been
24:49respected.
24:49Americans, Trump
24:51will have to
24:52say I have
24:53penetrated this
24:54huge market in
24:55India.
24:55I think it's
24:56perfectly possible
24:57anybody who has
24:58been associated
24:59with trade
25:00negotiations knows
25:01that the language
25:02can be ambiguous
25:03and it allows
25:05both sides to
25:06claim victory.
25:07I also believe,
25:08and that's the
25:09last point I will
25:09make, I do
25:10believe there are
25:12important sections
25:13in the United
25:13States which have
25:14come to the
25:15conclusion that the
25:16costs of alienating
25:18India far
25:19exceeds the
25:20benefits.
25:22Oh, absolutely.
25:23But then are
25:24there enough
25:24people, level
25:26headed people in
25:26the United States
25:27to see this
25:28through is the
25:30big question.
25:31And Seema
25:31Sirohi, the
25:32deals with the
25:32European Union
25:33and Japan had
25:34promises of
25:36$750 billion
25:37or $500 billion
25:38investment pledges
25:40to the United
25:40States of America
25:41or at least these
25:42big headlines that
25:43Donald Trump
25:44wants that he
25:45can claim victory.
25:46Vietnam and
25:47Indonesia are
25:48you know, are
25:50supposed to have
25:51given massive
25:51market access.
25:53With India, there
25:53are very strong
25:54red lines and
25:55no talk of
25:56billions of
25:56dollars being
25:57invested in
25:57the US.
25:58How do you
25:59see this deal
26:00go ahead?
26:00Unless Trump
26:01realizes, as
26:02Ambassador Mohan
26:03Kumar was
26:03putting it and
26:04Ambassador
26:04Sachin Har
26:04before that,
26:05that the
26:06strategic ties
26:07are far more
26:07important than
26:09the trade deal.
26:10Look, the
26:13way other
26:14countries and
26:16the European
26:16Union arrived
26:17at a deal
26:18was to
26:20sort of have
26:21this huge
26:22impressive
26:23number for
26:25investments
26:26that would
26:28come to
26:29the US.
26:29Now, that's
26:30an intention,
26:32not a legal
26:34commitment.
26:35Besides, the
26:37investment is to
26:38come from the
26:38private sector in
26:39those countries.
26:41And no
26:41government in
26:42a democracy
26:43can sort of
26:44direct the
26:45private sector
26:45to do X,
26:47Y, and Z.
26:48So I think
26:49there are two
26:50parts to
26:50what's going
26:51on.
26:52One is the
26:52actual trade
26:53deal, which
26:54India has
26:55been negotiating
26:56and taken
26:56extremely seriously
26:58sector by
26:59sector and
27:00how much you
27:00can give,
27:01how much you
27:01can take.
27:02The other
27:03side is the
27:05headline side.
27:07So that Trump
27:08can say to
27:09his people,
27:10oh, I
27:11managed to
27:12open up
27:12India, I
27:13managed to
27:13do this.
27:15Whether that
27:16actually happens
27:17is up for
27:19question.
27:20We don't
27:20know.
27:21And I
27:22think others
27:23gambled on
27:24that because,
27:25you know,
27:26over the next
27:27three years,
27:28whether those
27:28$500 billion
27:29come in terms
27:31of investment
27:32or don't,
27:33at least they
27:35have avoided
27:36the very
27:37extreme punitive
27:39tariffs.
27:40That's the point.
27:41Yeah, and
27:42settle for that
27:4215%.
27:43So in your
27:45view, should
27:45India have
27:46done that?
27:47Ambassador
27:47Sajjan
27:47given that
27:48headline that
27:49Donald Trump
27:50wanted or is
27:51the United
27:52States realizing
27:53that Trump's
27:53trade policy
27:54may be at
27:54odds with
27:55the US
27:56foreign policy,
27:57especially on
27:57the Indo-Pacific?
27:58There are some
27:59who say,
27:59no, we are
28:00over-interpreting
28:01his social media
28:02posts because,
28:03you know,
28:04US Defense
28:04Secretary Pete
28:05Hexet,
28:05White House
28:06spokespersons,
28:07they've clearly
28:07now started using
28:08the word Asia
28:09Pacific and not
28:10Indo-Pacific.
28:11I think,
28:12you know,
28:13it'll come a
28:13full circle,
28:15Gaurav,
28:16and I don't
28:16think it is,
28:17you know,
28:18a very temporary
28:18phenomenon,
28:19but I think it's
28:20going to continue
28:21and, you know,
28:22Mr. Trump will
28:23take it in this
28:24vein and we'll
28:26see, you know,
28:27other elements of
28:27the relationship
28:28coming up.
28:29But, you know,
28:29on this, I am
28:31also convinced,
28:32Gaurav, that
28:33the deal is
28:35by and large
28:36done.
28:37Everything is
28:38done.
28:39And, you know,
28:39in that,
28:40India's red
28:40line,
28:41are very
28:42clearly reflected
28:43and India had
28:44sort of, you
28:44know, made
28:45that the deal
28:46was lying on
28:47Trump's table.
28:48It was lying on
28:48Trump's table
28:49from the end
28:50of June.
28:51I know because,
28:52you know,
28:52I was being
28:53told by our
28:54own people
28:55every day,
28:56today he's
28:57going to sign
28:57it, tomorrow
28:58he's going to
28:58sign it.
28:59He never
29:00signed it
29:00because, you
29:01know, he
29:01wanted, he
29:02thought all
29:02the other
29:02countries had
29:03succumbed to
29:04his pressure,
29:05to his
29:05coercion.
29:06India will
29:06also succumb
29:07to his
29:07pressure.
29:08You know,
29:09even with the
29:09deal that is
29:10there, he can
29:11claim huge
29:12victory because
29:13on industrial
29:14tariffs, we
29:14have given
29:15them, you
29:16know, as the
29:16reports seem to
29:17suggest, we
29:18have given him
29:19a huge thing.
29:20So, you
29:20know, he can
29:20say that, you
29:21know, whatever
29:21was not
29:22available to
29:23us, we have
29:24been able to
29:24make, penetrate
29:25that.
29:26He's been saying
29:26it's the tariff
29:28king, but, you
29:28know, I have
29:29been able to do
29:29that.
29:30I have been
29:30able to go
29:31into the country
29:32and yet it
29:33didn't happen.
29:34And yet it
29:35didn't happen.
29:36So, perhaps he
29:36thought India
29:37will also buckle
29:38under pressure
29:38and that hasn't
29:39happened since
29:41June till date.
29:42But Arun Sharma,
29:44has the US
29:45president realized
29:46that trade with
29:46India is not
29:48that one-sided
29:49disaster he made
29:50it out to be?
29:51That India is
29:51clearly not a
29:52dead economy and
29:53his actions of
29:55imposing 25%
29:57tariffs initially and
29:57then an additional
29:5825% sanctions,
29:59it had only
30:00strengthened the
30:01BRICS partnership
30:02which was
30:03counterproductive
30:04for the US.
30:06I think he
30:08made a lot of
30:08calculations, not
30:09all of them
30:10panned out to
30:11be as per his
30:13plan.
30:14But I think we
30:14have to look at
30:15it, at his
30:16view as other
30:17panelists have
30:18said, the fact
30:19that he's not
30:20looking at it
30:20in just trade
30:21alone.
30:21I think that's
30:22where it's
30:22geopolitics more
30:23than trade in
30:23my view.
30:24You know, I
30:25think the trade
30:25nitty-gritty as
30:26most people
30:28already know, is
30:29almost done.
30:30What is
30:31complicating is
30:32the geopolitics,
30:33his pressure on
30:33Putin on the
30:34one side, his
30:35desire to make a
30:36deal with China
30:36because there's
30:37also a view that
30:38part of the
30:39reason he's given
30:40a free pass to
30:41China and he's
30:41imposed those
30:42tariffs on India
30:43till today or
30:45till two days
30:45ago was that he
30:47was trying to
30:47show, give a
30:48signal to China
30:49that we're able
30:50to, we're willing
30:51to dump India,
30:51let's make a
30:52deal and I'm
30:53giving you a free
30:53pass when you're
30:54more important to
30:55me than India is.
30:57So I don't know
30:57how necessarily
30:58that calculation
31:00is still valid
31:00but the fact
31:02is completely
31:03indisputable that
31:05this is more
31:05than a trade
31:06issue.
31:06This is more
31:07of a geopolitics
31:08issue and it's
31:09more of a
31:11win-win or
31:13versus win-lose
31:14issue.
31:15This president
31:16believes in a
31:18win-lose thing
31:19where he's the
31:19winner, the
31:20other person is
31:21the loser and
31:22he's trying to
31:23optimize.
31:24At the same
31:24time, I think we
31:25have to remember
31:25he's a deal
31:26maker.
31:27He wants a
31:28deal.
31:29There's no
31:29question about
31:30that.
31:30Which is why
31:30he keeps sending
31:32these messages to
31:33Prime Minister Modi
31:34to keep the
31:35dialogue open.
31:36He's saying,
31:36look, this deal
31:37is off the
31:38table.
31:38He's never
31:38said that and
31:39he's not likely
31:40to say it.
31:41So I think he
31:42will continue to
31:43push India till
31:44he can, till he
31:45gets the best
31:45deal he thinks
31:46he can get.
31:47Okay, and
31:48Dr. Ladwig, the
31:49last 30 seconds
31:49that I have on
31:50this part of
31:50the show, you
31:51think there's a
31:52reconciliation on
31:53the cards or is
31:53that reconciliation
31:54likely to be
31:55short-lived?
31:56Given India's
31:57stance, given
31:57India's red
31:58lines on
31:58agriculture, dairy,
31:59fisheries, Russian
32:01oil or will the
32:03American president,
32:03I'm sorry I'm
32:04asking you to
32:05second guess him,
32:05will he take a
32:06long-term view?
32:08I think the
32:09people around him
32:10will push him
32:10towards a long-term
32:11view and I think
32:12there's a lot of
32:13structural pressure on
32:14both countries to
32:15move beyond this and
32:17look beyond this.
32:18So I think if we
32:19go back and look at
32:20the first administration
32:21and the trade
32:22hiccups that
32:23preceded deepened
32:25cooperation, I'm
32:26hoping that that
32:27will characterize
32:28this period of time
32:29as well.
32:30And I will let that
32:31be the last word on
32:32this part of the
32:33show.
32:33Many thanks to
32:34such a fine panel
32:35of guests joining
32:36me on India First
32:38with their perspective
32:39helps us clearly
32:40understand the
32:41situation as it
32:42stands right now.
32:43I have breaking
32:44news that's coming
32:45in from
32:46Nepal.
32:47Trouble remains,
32:50you know, the
32:51situation does
32:52remain on the
32:52edge in Nepal.
32:54The death toll,
32:55we're getting the
32:55latest death toll and
32:56sadly after two days
32:57of violent protest,
32:58the death toll has
32:59climbed to 30.
33:01More than 1,000
33:03people have been
33:04injured and these
33:05are the 1,000 people
33:06who've been admitted
33:06to various hospitals
33:08nationwide in Nepal.
33:10Curfew remains in
33:10place till 6 in the
33:12morning tomorrow.
33:13The army is now
33:15completely in control
33:17when it comes to
33:19the streets, not
33:20just in Kathmandu
33:21but across Nepal.
33:22Vital assets,
33:23vital points,
33:24airports, security
33:25installations, they
33:27are now being
33:27protected by the
33:28army with the
33:29army chief requesting
33:31the youth to go
33:33back home, maintain
33:34calm, maintain peace
33:35because that's the
33:36only way forward.
33:37India today has the
33:39biggest team of
33:40reporters on ground
33:40zero.
33:41we'll get you
33:42more in this
33:43report.
33:57Nepal remains on
33:59the edge.
34:00The streets of
34:00Kathmandu, usually
34:02buzzing, are silent.
34:03the army patrols at
34:09every corner, enforcing
34:10strict curfew
34:11orders.
34:16Right now I'm
34:18present at the
34:19Ghantagar Chowk in
34:21Birganj.
34:22In fact, yesterday
34:23afternoon, how this
34:24area was literally
34:25burning, several
34:27vehicles were torched
34:28here, several
34:29buildings, the public
34:31buildings were also
34:32set on fire.
34:34Several army
34:35personnel, you can
34:36see here, they are
34:37manning this entire
34:38area, not allowing
34:39anyone to move or
34:41crisscross this entire
34:41area, especially the
34:43protesters.
34:44There is some sort
34:45of a peace here in
34:47the town, in the
34:49heart of the town, in
34:50Ghantagar area.
34:51But on the
34:51outskirts of Birganj,
34:53we are learning that
34:54still, protesters are
34:56indulging in
34:57violence.
35:03Nepal's army has
35:04taken charge, warning
35:05against arson and
35:06looting, and it's
35:08called for dialogue.
35:12The army has
35:15taken charge, warning
35:16against arson and
35:19looting, and it's
35:20called for dialogue.
35:24At the
35:3531 International
35:36Airport, operations
35:37have resumed after
35:38flights were suspended
35:39for two days.
35:42On Tuesday, violent
35:44protests of
35:44parliament, the
35:45prime minister's
35:46residence, and even
35:47the supreme court
35:47set ablaze.
35:48You can see the
35:53pillar structures that
35:54have come down,
35:55crashing down, because
35:57of the possibly blast.
35:58These are the iron
35:58structures which are
36:00shattered at this
36:01point in time, and
36:02from here, where I'm
36:03standing, I can feel
36:04intense heat coming
36:06from there.
36:07The reason being that
36:08even 24 hours later,
36:11what we see is that
36:12the flames are still
36:14coming out of the
36:17parliament house, and
36:18this is the floor of
36:19the house, remember,
36:21from where you can see
36:23the flames which are
36:25still ablaze inside the
36:28floor of the house of
36:29the parliament building
36:30of the parliament complex
36:32in Nepal.
36:33This courtroom and the
36:34premises of district
36:36court could speak
36:38everything that everything
36:40has been destroyed.
36:43This is a real picture of
36:45Nepal, which shows how
36:47intensive this protest was,
36:49and still, you can see
36:51this fire which has
36:54sat on these documents,
36:56and nothing could be
36:57saved in this courtroom.
37:01This visual shows you
37:03clearly that what would
37:05have been the condition
37:06on that moment.
37:07In Birgunj, a jailbreak
37:12attempt forced police to
37:13open fire.
37:14Dozens of weapons and
37:15cash looted during the
37:16unrest have since then
37:17been recovered.
37:20On the India-Nepal border,
37:22calm return.
37:23Security has been
37:24tightened, and Indians
37:26returning have been
37:27allowed in after ID
37:28checks.
37:28in the future.
37:34We were doing good news here, a company like that, and the idea of the government was there.
37:39Many of the people who are in Nepal, are for about to go there.
37:43They are going there, and the people who want to go to Nepal, are all going there.
37:49They are still waiting to have running away and running in the same way.
37:52And today, we have some further main service in Nepal.
37:56The situation with us is quite better and even more large areas are very better.
38:01With KP Sharma only gone, political churn has begun.
38:08Reports suggest there is a consensus being built
38:10to bring former judge Assis Sushila Karki as the head of the government.
38:15Other names being considered are Kathmandu Mayor Walender Shah
38:18and former Home Minister Abila Michane.
38:22For India, the focus is on the border.
38:25The big question now is, can peace hold and a new civilian government be elected
38:30or will protesters return to the streets?
38:34With Kumar Abhishek, Amit Bhardwaj, Rohit Singh and Ashish Srivastava in Nepal,
38:39we hear a report, India Today.
38:45And Prime Minister Narendra Modi has spoken to the Emir of Qatar.
38:48He has expressed his concern over the attack that took place by Israel on Qatar,
38:57on the Hamas in Qatar.
38:59Earlier today, I had spoken to Israel's ambassador to India, Ruvin Azhar,
39:03who explained why Israel had carried out strikes in Qatar, Doha
39:09and targeted the Hamas leadership.
39:11He also reacts to Kerala Chief Minister Pinrai Vijan's criticism
39:15of India's investment pact with Israel amidst Gaza operations.
39:19We get to excerpts of that India Today special interview.
39:22After Israel carried out targeted strikes inside Qatar to target the Hamas leadership,
39:34Prime Minister Narendra Modi has spoken to the Emir of Qatar.
39:37Prime Minister Narendra Modi has just taken to social media platform X to say,
39:41spoke with the Emir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani,
39:45and expressed deep concern at the attacks in Doha.
39:48India condemns the violation of the sovereignty of the brotherly state of Qatar.
39:53We support resolution of issues through dialogue and diplomacy and avoiding escalation.
40:00India stands firmly in support of peace and stability in the region
40:03and against terrorism in all its forms and manifestation.
40:10Earlier today, I had spoken to Israel's ambassador to India, Ruvin Azhar,
40:16on why Israel carried out the strikes in Doha, in Qatar, to target the Hamas leadership.
40:23I also put several other questions to him, including Pinrai Vijayan,
40:27criticizing the government for an investment pact with Israel,
40:32and on Priyanka Gandhi-Wadra and his response to her on social media platform X.
40:37Listen in.
40:45Israeli security forces have bombed the Hamas negotiation team in Qatar, in Doha,
40:51and this move has drawn widespread criticism, not just in Qatar,
40:56but even from the United States of America and some of the opposition parties inside Israel.
41:02But what was Israel hoping to achieve?
41:05Have they been able to do so?
41:07And the road ahead.
41:08Joining me on this India First special broadcast is Israel's ambassador to India,
41:13Ambassador Ruvin Azhar.
41:14Ambassador, welcome on India today.
41:17Thank you, Gaurav, for hosting me.
41:18Before I come to this question on what you were hoping to achieve
41:23with the bombing of the negotiation team with Doha, Qatar,
41:26internally in India, politics on this subject has escalated
41:30on Israel's operations against Hamas in Gaza.
41:34Pinrai Vijayan is the chief minister of a very popular state, Kerala.
41:39He has said that he strongly condemns India's union government's decision
41:43to host Israel's finance minister,
41:45calling him a far-right extremist and a chief architect of Israel's brutal occupation
41:50and expansionist agenda.
41:53He says at a time when a genocide is unfolding in Gaza,
41:57entering into an agreement with this representative of the Benjamin Netanyahu,
42:01establishment is nothing short of betrayal of India's historic solidarity with Palestine.
42:08How would you respond to that criticism where they want Israel, India,
42:13to pull back from this association with the Netanyahu government?
42:17Gaurav, Finance Minister Bethelius Mottrich came to India not to discuss the future of the Middle East.
42:23He came here to do three things.
42:26To sign a bilateral investment treaty,
42:29a very important treaty that will encourage investments both of Indians in Israel and of Israelis in India.
42:36He came here to promote the participation of Indian infrastructure companies
42:41in infrastructure projects in Israel,
42:43which are going to finance in the dozens of billions of dollars.
42:46This is a great opportunity for India.
42:48And the third thing he came to do is to increase our financial cooperation,
42:53to make sure that transactions between the two countries can work swiftly and cheaply.
42:58This is what he came to do.
43:00It serves the interests of India.
43:03It serves the interests of Israel.
43:04What are areas where India and Israel are deepening their cooperation and coordination
43:11through this bilateral and otherwise?
43:16Well, the rise of India's economic power presents opportunities both for India
43:22to be more competitive in the international arena
43:26and also for Israelis to source part of their production in India.
43:30That means that when we sign this bilateral investment treaty,
43:34it will encourage companies from both sides to engage in a much more robust way.
43:39It will bring jobs.
43:41It will increase trade.
43:42It's a great blessing for our countries.
43:45And I am thankful to the Indian government,
43:49and especially to the Minister of Finance that actually has expedited this negotiation.
43:54Israel is the first OECD country that signs this agreement with India
43:59and the sixth country that India has ever signed this agreement with.
44:03In addition to that, the infrastructure opportunities in Israel are huge.
44:09And India has developed an immense capacity when it comes to building projects,
44:14projects, whether it be metro, power stations, roads, railways,
44:19and we invite Indian companies to come and participate in these standards in Israel.
44:24Okay.
44:25Let me now, Ambassador, before I come back in a moment on other aspects of India-Israel relationship,
44:32talk about the criticism that's coming your way
44:35for the bombing of the negotiations team in Doha, Qatar.
44:40Hamas said while five members of its team had been killed in the attack,
44:43including the son of Hamas's exiled Gaza chief and top negotiator Khalil al-Hayah,
44:49it also said Israel had overall failed in what the Hamas call was an assassination attempt
44:54of the ceasefire team.
44:56So in your assessment, Ambassador,
44:58what was achieved in this targeting of the negotiation team?
45:02We targeted the perpetrators of the terrible massacre of the 7th of October.
45:08However, this leadership of, this terrorist leadership of Hamas,
45:13these were the people that commanded the massacre of 1,200 Israelis on the 7th of October,
45:20the rape, the burning of babies, the kidnapping of 250 hostages.
45:26These are the people in charge of these terrible crimes.
45:30And terrorists should know there is no place they can hide from their heinous crimes.
45:34So Israel took a precision strike in order to remove them,
45:40especially in the backdrop of the fact that they have been stalling negotiations.
45:44For the last year, we were utilizing military pressure and negotiations.
45:50But what Hamas wanted, with the support of Qatar,
45:53is to remain in power in the Gaza Strip.
45:55We are not going to allow that.
45:57But we stated from the 8th of October, one day after this massacre began,
46:02that Israel will release all the hostages
46:04and will make sure that Hamas cannot rearm or regroup
46:08and they have to move away from the Gaza Strip.
46:10If they do not do that, they will be destroyed.
46:14Okay?
46:15But Hamas' top leadership,
46:16they were reportedly meeting at least the information
46:18that's come out in public domain
46:20to work on a ceasefire.
46:22And it was a U.S. attempt at getting a ceasefire in place.
46:26Hostages would have been released within 48 hours of this 60-day truce
46:30in exchange of, of course, Palestinian prisoners
46:33and good-faith negotiations towards a permanent ceasefire.
46:38This strike by Israel,
46:39hasn't it undermined such a major attempt at a very crucial juncture?
46:44No, Gaurav.
46:44And I'll tell you why.
46:45Because Israel has accepted the American proposal.
46:48And the Hamas leadership had rebuked the proposal.
46:51They have said that they will still be stubborn
46:54to keep in control of the Gaza Strip
46:56to get Israel to withdraw and then to take power again.
47:01Israel is not going to accept that.
47:03It was a non-starter.
47:04And this is after one year
47:06that they have been stalling these negotiations.
47:08We are not going to agree to that.
47:11The future of Gaza would be a brighter future.
47:14A future that the Palestinian people deserve.
47:17They have been stalling this release of the hostages
47:20and renouncing power for a long period of time
47:24on their account of the suffering of their own population.
47:27This has to stop.
47:29This can stop today.
47:30It could stop yesterday.
47:31It could stop one year ago.
47:33But tell me right now, Ambassador,
47:35what's Israel's game plan?
47:37Apparently, according to some reports,
47:40you have Hamas in one corner of the Gaza Strip.
47:45So will the Israeli forces now go in lock, stock and barrel
47:48and destroy them there,
47:50even if it means collateral damage?
47:52What's the strategy?
47:53Well, we have approved the plans
47:56for the taking of the Gaza City.
47:58We are now preparing on the humanitarian aspect
48:03places for the Palestinian population from Gaza City
48:07to move to in order to receive food, water and medical treatment.
48:13We already have announced our intention to enter the city itself.
48:19We already control 40% of the city.
48:21Hamas is attempting to stop the evacuation of the population.
48:25It will not help.
48:26It will only cause collateral damage.
48:29And therefore, we are pursuing, continuing this operation.
48:34And we are, you know, with a very strong conviction
48:38that unless Hamas renounces power,
48:41accepts the American proposal,
48:43Israel will have to go all the way.
48:45We will take the Hamas biggest stronghold in Gaza City.
48:49And which is the stronghold where Hamas remains?
48:51And how long for you to control that entire 100% of the Gaza Strip,
48:57if that is what you intend to do?
48:58If Hamas prevents Palestinians from leaving,
49:01does this mean this genocide of innocence continues
49:05or starvation deaths?
49:07Well, first of all, all these terms
49:09that are linked with genocide and starvation
49:12are completely false.
49:15There have been victims in Gaza
49:17as a result of this war.
49:20There has been suffering in Gaza.
49:21But there is no intention of starvation.
49:23And there is not genocidal intent from the side of Israel.
49:27We are taking military action to defend ourselves.
49:29And anyone that uses these terms is lying,
49:32is actually cooperating with the Hamas propaganda
49:36that is trying to stop us from achieving our goals,
49:39that is trying to remain in power in Gaza Strip,
49:41that has genocidal intentions against the state of Israel.
49:44And even a report of the British government only two days ago
49:47that was adopted by the British foreign minister
49:51has mentioned that Israel is not committing genocide in Gaza.
49:55Therefore, these terms are completely false.
49:57Israel will pursue its interests
49:59because we have a right to defend ourselves,
50:01because terrorists have to be removed,
50:03both the terrorists in the Gaza Strip
50:05and also terrorists in other places.
50:08There is no impunity for terrorists.
50:10Okay, so you're saying terrorists are not safe
50:12even if they are in Doha, Qatar.
50:14But American President Donald Trump,
50:16he says he immediately directed the U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkow
50:20to inform Qatar about the impendent attack.
50:24But then in that position,
50:25they were a bit too late to stop the attack.
50:27There are analysts who see this as a strain
50:29on U.S.-Israel relationship.
50:33Do you agree with that,
50:34that the relationship is now under strain
50:36and there was lack of coordination
50:38between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
50:40and his team and President Trump's team?
50:43No.
50:44No.
50:45No.
50:46So what do you make of President Trump, his message?
50:52His message basically said that the forces,
50:56the American forces that were over there,
50:58had to be warned, the Qataris had to be warned,
51:00not in order to prevent the Israeli attack.
51:03Israel has a right to defend itself
51:04and even President Trump himself has acknowledged that,
51:08including in this attack.
51:10Yeah.
51:10Your goals were noble,
51:12but perhaps the ways were not...
51:13The ways were also okay.
51:15And we are coordinating with the United States.
51:17We are doing what we have to do
51:20and they are doing what they have to do.
51:21And I think this cooperation will continue.
51:23Okay.
51:24However, in your own country, in Israel, sir,
51:27Yar Lapid, opposition leader,
51:30he took to social media platform X to say,
51:32and I quote,
51:33Hamas members are sons of death.
51:35But at this stage,
51:36the Israeli government needs to explain
51:37how the idea for operation
51:39will not lead to the killing of the hostages
51:41and whether the risk to the hostages' life
51:43was taken into account
51:44in the decision to carry out the operations.
51:46It is forbidden to wait any longer.
51:48The war must be ended.
51:50They must be brought back home.
51:51Heart is with the families.
51:52But then this operation,
51:54with the bombing of Qatar,
51:55have you risked the lives of your hostages?
51:58Well, we are a democracy, Gaurav.
51:59And in democracy, leaders,
52:01especially leaders of the opposition,
52:02have the right to criticize
52:04the actions of the government.
52:05I think we share all in Israel.
52:07We share the concern for the hostages.
52:09I think that without military action,
52:11we have proved in the past
52:13that hostages cannot be retrieved.
52:16We have, through military action,
52:18put pressure,
52:19and then through negotiations,
52:20we've been able to retrieve
52:22206 hostages.
52:25In order to release
52:26the rest of the hostages,
52:28nobody is going to volunteer.
52:30If we want to achieve the goal
52:31of bringing them back
52:32and also achieving
52:33a better future for the Gaza Strip,
52:36we will continue to have
52:37to put military pressure,
52:38especially in a time
52:39in which these terrorists
52:41are stalling for time.
52:42So, you think terrorists
52:44are stalling for time,
52:45they want to retain control,
52:46Hamas wants to retain control
52:48of Gaza,
52:48and Israel will not permit that.
52:50Absolutely.
52:51However,
52:52on this 8th of September,
52:55unfortunately,
52:55six Israelis
52:56were also killed
52:57in a terror attack,
52:58not just in Jerusalem,
52:59one of the deadliest
53:00shootings in Jerusalem.
53:01Your soldiers were killed
53:03on the outskirts of Gaza.
53:04I believe four soldiers
53:05were killed.
53:06So, all your efforts
53:07since 2022 till date,
53:09the threat remains.
53:11Well, this is another proof,
53:14Gara,
53:15that the Hamas leadership
53:16in Doha
53:17that has directed
53:18this attack in Jerusalem
53:19is not serious
53:21in negotiating,
53:22in achieving peace,
53:23in renouncing power
53:24in the Gaza Strip.
53:25What they want to do
53:26is to continue
53:27their violence,
53:30continue their terror
53:31until Israel is eliminated.
53:33That's what they want
53:34to achieve.
53:34And you will ensure
53:36that doesn't happen
53:37in your stay in India.
53:41You know,
53:42while you spoke
53:42of this great meeting
53:44between Nirmala Sitaraman
53:45and the finance minister
53:46of Israel
53:47and how it may pave
53:48the way
53:49for bilateral exchanges
53:51between the two countries
53:52at a much greater scale,
53:54you had a recent spat
53:56on social media
53:57with a prominent leader
53:59in the opposition party,
54:00in the Congress party,
54:01Priyanka Gandhi Wadra,
54:02over her comments
54:05on Gaza
54:05and your response.
54:07And there are several
54:08opposition leaders
54:09who say that
54:10you overstepped,
54:12you know,
54:13your diplomatic norms
54:15in that stage.
54:16Would you want
54:17to respond to that?
54:17We are very sensitive
54:19when it comes
54:20to blood libels
54:21against our country.
54:22When we are blamed
54:24for genocide,
54:26when we are blamed
54:27for a policy of starvation,
54:29which are not true,
54:31we cannot stay silent,
54:33Gaurab,
54:34because too many blood libels
54:35have been waged
54:36against our people
54:37for the last 2,000 years.
54:39And as a result
54:39of these blood libels,
54:41thousands and millions
54:43of Jews
54:43have been killed.
54:44So it's okay
54:46to have criticism
54:48and to have a debate.
54:50But when you try
54:51to put a blood libel
54:52on our people,
54:55we,
54:55as representatives
54:56of the state of Israel,
54:57cannot stay silent.
54:59And in your view, sir,
55:01this continues
55:02indefinitely,
55:04this war
55:05against Hamas,
55:06is there a deadline,
55:07is there a time frame
55:08in which you would be able
55:10to be in control
55:11of the Gaza Strip?
55:12Well,
55:13there's not a strict timeline.
55:14We don't know
55:15how operations will go
55:16and we don't like
55:18to share operational details
55:20about the IDF intentions.
55:23We hope that this situation
55:24can be sought out
55:25in the coming months.
55:26And again,
55:27we would be very happy
55:28if we could stop this,
55:31not now,
55:31one year ago.
55:33The only thing that we need
55:34is for Hamas
55:35to accept its defeat,
55:36to release the hostages,
55:38and to cooperate
55:39with the Arab world
55:40and with the international community,
55:41in creating
55:42a much better
55:43and bright future
55:45for the Gaza Strip.
55:47Ambassador Ruben Azhar
55:48for joining me here
55:49on this India First special.
55:51Many thanks.
55:52Thank you very much.
55:53Good to see you.
55:54Good to see you, sir.
55:55So, Israel's ambassador
55:56to India is very clear.
55:58Their operations
55:58against Hamas
56:00in Gaza
56:00will continue
56:01and no place
56:03across the world
56:04in their appreciation
56:05is safe
56:06for Hamas,
56:08even if it means
56:08striking
56:09at Doha, Qatar.
56:11They're willing
56:12to take the consequences.
56:13Thank you, sir.
56:13Thank you, sir.
56:13Thank you, sir.
56:13Thank you, sir.
56:14Thank you, sir.
56:14Thank you, sir.
56:14Thank you, sir.
56:14Thank you, sir.
56:14Thank you, sir.
56:14Thank you, sir.
56:15Thank you, sir.
56:15Thank you, sir.
56:15Thank you, sir.
56:16Thank you, sir.
56:16Thank you, sir.
56:16Thank you, sir.
56:17Thank you, sir.
56:17Thank you, sir.
56:17Thank you, sir.
56:18Thank you, sir.
56:18Thank you, sir.
56:18Thank you, sir.
56:19Thank you, sir.
56:19Thank you, sir.
56:20Thank you, sir.
56:21Thank you, sir.
56:21Thank you, sir.
56:22Thank you, sir.
56:22Thank you, sir.
56:23Thank you, sir.
56:23Thank you, sir.
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