- 4 months ago
The infamous Sinaloa Cartel remains a dominant force in narcotics trafficking, especially fentanyl, entering the US with deadly synthetic drugs. In this exclusive, Professor Sebastián A. Cutrona of Liverpool Hope University breaks down the cartel’s operations and how President Trump's tariffs on Mexico might actually exacerbate the drug crisis instead of solving it.
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00:00with me today at asianet news is sebastian putrona he's an author a senior lecturer at criminology
00:20at liverpool hope university in uk he has also done extensive research in organized crime drug
00:26trafficking policing and latin america thank you so much sebastian for speaking with asianet news
00:33on this very important topic of drug crisis in latin america thank you hina for for the invitation
00:39and i'm happy to to have this conversation today right so sebastian i really want to keep this
00:45conversation focused on the one of the most infamous drug cartels which is sinaloa drug cartel
00:52why this particular region in mexico why not any other region what is so special about
00:58this region that so many you know drug lords are operating out of this place well there isn't
01:04a kind of geographical trap for mexico in this regard mexico is placed next to the biggest
01:11cocaine market in the world the most lucrative market in the world so mexico works as a key
01:20territory for the cocaine that is produced in the andan bridge especially in colombia to a lesser
01:28extent peru and bolivia and its traffic through mexico towards the united states so the geographical
01:36position of mexico makes the country a key territory for the drugs trafficked to the united states with one
01:45additional problem unlike the past where most of the drugs were produced in the andan rich largely
01:53cocaine now mexico also manufactures fentanyl which makes also mexico and the territory a key point for
02:04the drugs entering the biggest fentanyl market in the world which is the united states so is it because
02:10of the vegetation that we have in sinaloa or is it that all the uh you know instruments or the
02:15equipment that is needed to process these synthetic drugs one of them of course fentanyl is located in
02:20sinaloa well uh unlike cocaine fentanyl is a synthetic opioid meaning that you do not need any um you know
02:32vegetation you don't need a climate uh uh you know benefits you don't need any environmental
02:39factor affecting the production you only need a laboratory and the knowledge and of course the
02:45inputs to manufacture fentanyl so unlike the case of cocaine that is largely if not entirely produced
02:54in the andan rich where you do need the vegetation where you do need the climate the altitude and other
03:00factors shaping production to manufacture fentanyl you only need a laboratory the knowledge
03:08and some of the chemical precursors to produce it so mexico with some higher knowledge in the
03:17production of another synthetic drug which is bethamphetamines knows very well those criminal
03:23organizations of course knows very well how to produce fentanyl and this has accelerated particularly
03:31after 2019 when china imposed restrictions before 2019 the manufacturing of fentanyl was almost
03:41inexistent in mexico that measure adopted by the chinese government as a result of pressure from the
03:49united states moved part of the manufacturing process from countries like china to mexico with again
03:57knowledge prior knowledge on the production of other synthetic drugs like bethamphetamines if you add
04:05to that scenario the fact that most of those organizations have the know the logistic
04:12and the capability to transport into traffic drugs that becomes the perfect scenario for a crisis like the
04:21one that is happening today in the united states you know china still remains another place uh where these
04:27chemicals are imported from yes unlike the past when china in export it and and and and traffic to it to
04:36well there is a definition problem there but you know let's let's use the word transport of fentanyl it was
04:45finalized fentanyl so that changed after 2019 the finalized product is no longer coming
04:54from china there are of course some trafficking networks that still send fentanyl finalized fentanyl to
05:01the united states but now most of the illicitly manufactured fentanyl does not come from china
05:08but from mexico and this accelerated after 2019 however as you effectively mentioned some of the
05:16chemical precursors and the chemicals needed to manufacture fentanyl come from china across the
05:23border in united states you know the drug has already infiltrated in huge amounts uh and of course
05:30it is not only the drug crisis now it is also the repercussions of it for example violence economic
05:36mayhem and of course the corruptions where you know you see reports how u.s officials also sometimes
05:42touted to be functioning hand in glove with these drug lords uh how deep is the nexus which is there
05:50in united states and what all cities you see that uh there is a big issue and of course adding to that uh
05:57is fentanyl also being produced inside the borders of united states first of all uh let me say that i
06:03don't think that there is a so-called infiltration of some of the u.s cities or even the government
06:10in the united states by the sinaloa cartel that's something that i want to to clarify from the very
06:15beginning are there associates of the sinaloa cartel or other criminal organizations like the
06:21jalisco new generation cartel in the united states probably yes are they structured as an homogeneous or
06:29well-organized group that can threaten or infiltrate the united states i don't think so unlike mexico and
06:37other latin american countries at least at the local level the u.s has relatively strong institutions
06:43and effective law enforcement so i don't think that infiltration is a possibility in the united states
06:50why do we see this narrative suggesting that there is a cartel invasion in the united states and that the
06:57united states is going to suffer some of the consequences that mexico has witnessed in the
07:03past i think that political elites in the united states especially under this administration are
07:09effectively very effectively securitizing drug trafficking presenting it as an existential threat
07:16largely with political purposes uh finding and we don't have to forget this finding an external enemy
07:24has been an inherent feature of the united states politics since the foundation of the country so i
07:30don't see here a difference from what happened in the past but those cells those individuals that operate
07:39in the united states do not have the capability to either produce or manufacture drugs within the territory
07:47and most importantly i don't see those cells with the capabilities to threaten the state or to infiltrate
07:55the state strong institutions usually limit those types of situations situations that we do see in
08:04many latin american countries right but how does uh these drug cartels actually function i mean what sort of
08:11structure uh do we have i mean from what i've read i'm given to understand that they are mostly
08:16decentralized semi-autonomous uh you know groups functioning under a cartel so that you have you
08:22don't have to take commands from a central uh you know entity and you know do a lot of back and forth
08:29so that is why they are also able to evade arrest so far i mean not major crackdown we have seen in the
08:35past so well that is totally correct um you know most of these cartels uh if we focus on the case of
08:43mexico are not hierarchical organizations like the colombian medellin cartel or to a lesser extent the
08:51cali cartel that were operational during the 80s and early 90s in in in colombia if you think about
08:59the experience in the past those hierarchical organizations actually
09:05uh ended up you know when when when the u.s law enforcement together with local police forces
09:14chopped the head of those organizations those organizations were dismantled
09:19so we no longer have the medellin or cali cartel after you know pablo escobar was killed in 1993 or the
09:26orejuela brothers were imprisoned in the mid uh 90s these organizations unlike the colombians are more like
09:34networks or a confederation of different smaller groups involving drug trafficking some of the
09:41activities are in fact outsourced to partners that are not clearly or cannot be clearly defined as
09:48criminal organizations you have a lot of brokers you have lawyers money launderers among others of course
09:56of course it doesn't mean that there is no leadership within the organization that confederation
10:02usually has some point of leadership that allows the organizations to coordinate the activities that
10:10make possible that cocaine produced in the puto mayo in colombia arrives to new york in the united
10:18states there is some level of coordination if you want to think about the biggest criminal organization
10:23the sinaloa cartel there are two major factions that actually have some kind of leadership within the
10:29organization we have the faction led or historically led by el mayo today it's called the magiza and los
10:38chapitos the other uh a faction of the organization that is made of the four sons of el chapo right but
10:44a critical aspect a critical aspect to understand the power of these criminal organizations is not only by
10:51looking at the organization itself but also by looking at the state these organizations especially the mexican
10:58ones have prospered thanks to connections forged with the higher level of police and the military
11:05forces in that country and this is perhaps a distinguishing future if you think about those
11:12infamous organizations like the senado cartel they have prosperous because of those connections established
11:19with the state without the state we know we cannot have organizations of this size and of this power
11:28so i always invite my students to understand organized crime as a kind of conjunctions between two
11:36things on the one hand the underworld the criminal organization but also the state why we don't have
11:42organizations of that size in the united states the answer among other factors of course it shape and
11:48this is a very complex phenomenon but the strength of the state and the power of institutions is a critical
11:55aspect to understand why mexico harbors those organizations another not out of the countries
12:01like the united states but of course i mean the way that these two factions that you spoke about
12:08you know one by el chapo definitely he is now has already been extradited to us and now is in prison
12:15you know the one faction of el chapo and the another one of el me what is the key differences
12:20because i think el chapo is more aggressive and el mayo is more low profile uh so how do
12:28it's it's very contrasting how do they function well historically when especially when you know
12:34both of the leaders cooperate and we have to understand that you know before the imprisonment
12:39of the chapel and you know and then the chapitos taking control of the organization and especially
12:46after you know this alleged uh uh uh uh uh you know event where uh one of the son of the chapito put
12:54el mayo in a plane and then you know handed to to the u.s authorities but before that before that
13:00both leaders of the organizations cooperated we have to to to understand that it is truth that
13:08historically el mayo has been perceived to be less violent relying more on corruption whereas el
13:16chapo exerted more aggressive leadership within the organization some people argue some specialists
13:23argue that these two type of leadership futures made the organization a very powerful similar group
13:31you have corruption on the one hand and more kind of soft power on the on the one hand and on the
13:37other hand you have a strong arm that uses violence to impose respect among other organizations as well
13:45today however i would say that there are no many differences beyond that generational aspect and the
13:51generational aspect is also key here we have the chapitos being the younger faction of the organization and then the
13:58magisa with older leaders of the organization each of those factions regardless of of of of we are talking
14:07about the chapitos or the magisa of course control armed groups that they use to have control over
14:14the territories and sometimes conquer uh other territories um for example the chapitos have associated
14:22with groups like lot ninis and the nueva whereas the major collaborate with anthrax and los rusos just to
14:28mention a few examples so we do not have an homogeneous organizations but rather factions
14:35that have subgroups inside to control the territories regarding the drugs and this is perhaps where
14:41another difference can be highlighted there seems to be evidence there seems to be evidence that indicate
14:49that los chapitos are more involved in fentanyl manufacturing compared to la magisa which seems to
14:58be more involved in cocaine trafficking and manufacturing of methamphetamines what all strategies mexico is
15:06adopting in order to clamp down on these groups of course you know given uh trump's uh threats of tariffs
15:13mexico is trying to be more you know cooperative with united states and talking about
15:18extraditing more people to united states deploying more troops but exactly what can happen on the
15:23ground because this this issue seems to be plaguing the country for a very long time what exactly mexico
15:28can do under the presidency of claudia shinbon to actually tackle this issue well the president has been
15:35very active especially after you know uh uh the u.s pressure was so evident during the last couple of
15:43months the the president appointed omar garcia harchuk which is the secretary of security to coordinate law
15:51enforcement strategy on the ground so he sent the secretary of security uh to sinaloa to coordinate
15:59the security initiatives against those organizations right especially the sinaloa cartel she deployed
16:07more than 10 000 troops to the northern border that happened after uh trump threatened the mexican
16:16state to invade or to send military troops or to impose new tariffs against the mexican government
16:24and most importantly and this is a kind of big difference with the past she extradited 29 criminal
16:32leaders of the most notorious criminal organizations that have ever existed in mexico and we can name
16:39here the case of rafael caro quintero the former leader of the guadalajara cartel miguel and omar
16:45angel treviño who were the leaders of the setas in in the past are these measures enough are these measures
16:53enough well i see this as a transnational problem so probably this may not be enough to actually counter
17:01the power the power of those organizations with demand in the united states and when i talked about
17:06demand i'm mainly i'm mainly talking about fentanyl being stable overdoses have decreased slightly
17:12decreased cocaine overdoses are increasing so demand seems to be increasing in the united states but with
17:20demand stable in general terms prices extremely high the economic incentives for criminal organizations
17:29in latin america let's talk about mexico in this case where state institutions are weak are endless so
17:38as long as these opportunities are there i do not see a rational alternative for those criminal groups
17:46i do not see a rational alternative for those criminal groups unfortunately unlike the past we see
17:54an international scenario that is different and when i say different is an international scenario that
18:00is mostly focused on the supply that rejects assistance as a way to to promote institution building
18:11to create alternative opportunities but rather uses the harm the power of the state in this case the
18:19military to confront criminal organizations and this is a failed strategy this is a failed recipe that
18:26has not worked in the past and we seems to be we seem to be repeating over and over in latin america
18:33you know working because if you impose tariff on mexico then of course there there will be economic
18:39chaos in the country there'll be more unemployment and then there will be more recruits so is it even you
18:45know uh going to tackle the issue at all the trump tariffs it's a counterproductive i think that you
18:52said it very clearly it's a counterproductive with unintended consequences of strategy why is it
18:59counterproductive well the mexican economy relies extensively on what happens in the united states right
19:06uh as as a way of you know uh place the products of of the mexican companies and production in general from
19:14from from from from the country so those tariffs is if finally imposed are going to harm severely the
19:22economy in mexico with an economy that is not prospering the incentives for individuals to join
19:31criminal organizations are going to be higher because a critical aspect that i think that i mentioned
19:37the the word and the term war on drugs when referring to trump's strategy it is truth that
19:44trump is applying a revised version of the war on drugs but there is a difference there is a
19:49difference compared to the past which i think is going to have enormous consequences in mexico the
19:54difference is that trump war on drugs does not rely on economic assistance there is no economic
20:01assistance unlike the past where we had planned colombia with the colombian government or the merida
20:06initiative with mexico there is no economic assistance there is only coercion and diplomatic pressure
20:14and those initiatives are likely to generate more problems than solutions not only mexico but in
20:21other countries in latin america what all financial tools are at the disposal of these leaders to be
20:26able to carry out these cartel activities well all the resources coming from these organizations were
20:32originally uh coming from the underworld meaning that those criminal activities uh provided a lot of cash to
20:40these criminal organizations however these criminal organizations cannot spend the money as soon as
20:46they receive it from those who buy the drugs from those who supply the drugs and so forth they need to
20:54lunder that money so many of these criminal organizations all of these criminal organizations also relied on
21:02money lunderers who are the ones in charge of putting the money out of the underworld into the legal
21:10economy this is how these criminal organizations have used the money to infiltrate both politics and
21:20the illicit economy with money being laundered you have resources to do two different things that are
21:28critical to understand the power of these criminal organizations first you can infiltrate the
21:34government you don't need money laundering to infiltrate the government you can do it with dirty money as
21:39well but most importantly you can infiltrate the economy and by infiltrating the economy i mean
21:45diversifying the portfolio of those criminal organizations they own legal companies shield companies
21:52they can send money abroad and this is how the task of countering organized crime becomes more difficult
22:03how can you fight a criminal organization if the person you are fighting with it's not a criminal
22:11but a lawyer a ceo of a company so that transition from a criminal organization a fully criminal organization
22:21to an organization that has infiltrated the economy becomes one of the key stages to understand why
22:29drug trafficking has been very difficult to fight and why organized crime is a critical actor in many
22:35latin american countries well i think that first of all what we need is demand control measures in the
22:44united states right the biggest you were the biggest illicit market in the world by far is the united states
22:52so we cannot fight those criminal organizations if we first not tackle the incentives for those
23:01organizations to operate with prices increasing due to the illicit nature of the drug and
23:07and many of the lack of demand or harm reduction policies in the united states you may expect criminal organizations
23:15to continue uh participating in those activities so i think that first of all we need to place more emphasis on the demand
23:27not just focusing on the supply of illicit drugs and we need to invest more on institution building i think that institution building
23:35needs to be a key initiative what are the international ways to approach this well i think that and
23:45unfortunately in latin america today the political landscape does not seems to be very cohesive to
23:54move towards a more collective way to approach drug trafficking we do we did have that kind of landscape in
24:01the past i think that we missed an opportunity in the early 2000s to approach the problem of organized
24:08crime in a more collective way but um sorry to be pessimistic i do not see today a room for a more
24:17multilateral way to approach drug trafficking in the region
24:28you
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