00:00So it was quite a show with dazzling military hardware and innovative military technology, as well as just straightforward military prowess.
00:15So what was it? What was it all about?
00:17On one level, it was a commemorative moment to the victory over Japan in World War Two by China.
00:25But even that wasn't without an agenda, although the key message was there is a new world order.
00:33And China is the leader of the rival bloc in that new world order, the rival bloc to the US.
00:40So to discuss all this, I'm joined now by Alessio Patalano.
00:44He joins us on the line from Tokyo. Thank you so much for joining us.
00:48He is professor in East Asian Warfare and Strategy at the Department of War Studies at King's College in London.
00:57Welcome to you. You are also a adjunct fellow at the Institute of Contemporary Asian Studies at Temple University in Japan.
01:04I could go on. I want to thank you so much for joining us here on France 24, Mr. Patalano.
01:12We do appreciate it. I want to start, first of all, by saying, you know, what is China saying with all of this?
01:19What is the big message and who is this message aimed at?
01:26That's an excellent question because it allows us to put a focus on the two big aspects of strategic communication at work here.
01:35One is, of course, to the Chinese public.
01:39Xi Jinping and in particular the PLA has been going through a difficult period of time with a number of very senior officers being dismissed or removed from posts.
01:52This is a first and foremost a message to the Chinese people that the core component of the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation, as Xi Jinping has put it for the last two mandates that he's had,
02:07and very much the military component of this is on track.
02:12It's going to deliver what it's supposed to deliver, which is a world class military by the beginning of the 2030s.
02:18So this is a first and foremost a message to the Chinese people that notwithstanding what everybody in China has seen,
02:26which is removing our very senior officials because of corruption and scandals, this remains a very effective military machine.
02:34The other big message here is for the rest of the world.
02:38And in particular, I think here what we're looking at is one of those spectacles that absolutely the Chinese can put on when it comes to military pageantry,
02:49suggesting that this is a great power, but it's a great power that is not coming from the West,
02:56that it does not stand for the type of behavior that the United States stands for,
03:03and that in this communication, in this messaging, is supposed to be the alternative, if you want,
03:12great power presenting option to the rest of the international community.
03:18When you say that it does not represent the same kind of values as the United States,
03:24what are you talking about there?
03:25Are you talking about the idea of democracy being the ultimate way of governance?
03:31Are you talking about societal values?
03:34What are you getting at there?
03:37So there's two elements to this.
03:39And again, it's very important that we touch upon this because in one sense,
03:43Xi Jinping's ideas about a world order in which China has a much greater say,
03:52is a world order that is constructed along somewhat of a negative set of values.
03:58It's about not being like the other side, first and foremost.
04:03At heart, this is about a different type of regimes, regimes in which democracy serves some sort of a form of authoritarian manifestation,
04:13in which few are empowered to rule for the many, and the many will have to follow what the few have to say about their well-being.
04:24This is not certainly the type of projection.
04:27And in this respect, Xi Jinping, by showing the advances of its military with this parade,
04:34is also showcasing how the authoritarian regimes of the style and the fashion of the People's Republic of China
04:41can actually provide answers that in the West, at the moment, we seem to be struggling with economic growth,
04:48economic development, international standing.
04:51So there's two elements of this story.
04:54One, it is about a form of governance that is different, a form of governance in which the trust to the senior political leadership
05:01is done not through democratic means, but through party process.
05:07And they set the stage for the welfare of the rest of society.
05:11And two, almost presenting a template for any other state, suggesting, look, authoritarian regimes have answers,
05:19can bring economic growth, can bring development, and it's going to be a very different one from the one that at the moment,
05:26a very transactional United States seems to be suggesting to be the alternative.
05:31So as you say, China appears to be trying to position itself as the leader of this rival bloc to the US-led West, if you like.
05:43How worried should the West be?
05:45I mean, how much do some of these countries, we saw Narendra Modi in China at the beginning of the week,
05:51now we have Putin, Kim Jong-un, how much do these countries really have in common?
05:56How much are they a bloc?
05:58So this is, again, a very important question, because in reality, we shouldn't be thinking about the sort of value-led convergence,
06:08the way the likes of which we've seen in Europe, in multilateral groupings, alliances like NATO.
06:17This is much more about a strategic convergence of convenience, one in which economic, mutual economic dependencies,
06:24common threats and enemies, predominantly the United States-led coalitions and multilateral forms of alliances,
06:33whether bilateral like in East Asia or multilateral like NATO in Europe, represent the main challenge.
06:40So these are countries that are coming together because of these commonalities,
06:44rather than a shared sense of destiny and a shared sense of belief that they have something comprehensive to present.
06:54They're much more about looking at self-interest and on the basis of that developing a different world order
07:02in which however you define your form of governance is going to be fine,
07:07so long so you respect the hierarchical structure in which some countries like China
07:12will have a greater say because of their sheer preponderance in international affairs.
07:19I just want to touch on another area of this parade and indeed the run-up to it.
07:25There's been quite a lot of comment about the fact that China, Xi, has particularly emphasised the role
07:34this parade was to commemorate the defeat in 1945 of Japan.
07:41And Xi has very much emphasised the role of the Communist Party of China in that defeat.
07:49Now, at the time, the Nationalist Party was ruling China,
07:53and a lot of people are seeing this as an attempt to rewrite history in a way
07:57and to lay the ground for Xi's territorial claims on Taiwan,
08:02where, of course, the Nationalists fled at the end of the war.
08:07What do you make of all that?
08:10So the messaging is actually very consistent with what are very clear positions
08:15that Xi Jinping has expressed over time.
08:18So let's break them down.
08:20First of all, the Chinese Communist Party has always been very big on narratives
08:24and has been very big on rewriting history in a way that suits the leadership of the day.
08:31And Xi Jinping is behaving in a fashion that is consistent to that period of time.
08:37As you rightly pointed out, China was notable in the victory over Japan by its overall absence,
08:43insofar as the Chinese Communist Party is concerned.
08:47When, in 1945, Japanese troops stopped fighting,
08:52they still had the single largest component of the army present in China.
08:57And much of what had been achieved, as you rightly pointed out,
09:01was at the hands of the Nationalists.
09:03But at the same time, since the end of World War II, China has overtaken –
09:09the Chinese Communist Party has overtaken the Nationalists, rules China.
09:12And the one China principle that is a longstanding core position sees Taiwan and China as indivisible.
09:19So from that perspective, he is absolutely restating what has been a consistent position for China,
09:27and that is that there is one China.
09:30We are that China.
09:31We inherited.
09:33We are the legitimate heir.
09:36There is a sense of linearity in history that ended with the Communist Party coming at the top of the governance system.
09:44And this is just a matter of time before the provinces that are not outside of the control of the Chinese Communist Party
09:52will come back, Taiwan being the most notable absence in this respect.
09:58And again, this also, on the other hand, plays to the strength of this broader narrative of a developing country
10:05that has made its own way into international affairs and now stands as one of the true giants of this time and age.
10:14There is, however, a fundamental contradiction.
10:18Xi Jinping's speech about how the ascendancy of China is proof of those who choose peace over war,
10:26of course, is somewhat ironic because we all know that China is one of the most significant bankrolling forces
10:33against the Russian ability to wage war in Ukraine.
10:37So in that sense, there are contradictions that cannot be left outside of this projection of a specific type of narrative.
10:46Well, I'm afraid we're going to have to leave it there.
10:49Thank you so much for your analysis.
10:52Alessio Patelana of King's College in London.
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