- 1 year ago
At today's House Rules Committee hearing, Rep. James McGovern (D-MA) questioned top House Oversight Committee members about the Epstein Files.
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00:00I appreciate that very much. Mr. McGovern.
00:04Thank you very much. First, I think I want to ask the unanimous consent to
00:08insert into the record the Massey-Connor resolution, because
00:12you keep on saying that it doesn't protect the victims, but it's
00:16in yellow here, there's some pretty explicit language
00:20about protecting the identity of the victims, so I don't want there to be any confusion.
00:24Without objection. And, you know, and Mr. Comer
00:28says it's unnecessary, but this bill we're doing right now is unnecessary, because you're already
00:32doing something. So I can't help
00:36but feel that this is, like, cover. And I've got to be honest with you,
00:40I've been, you know, we've been trying to bring
00:44legislation to the floor, we've been trying to, you know, amend bills to try to
00:48get this administration to do what Trump said he
00:52was going to do during the campaign, that is release all the files, and
00:56you know, I mean, we had a recess early, because we didn't, people didn't want to take a vote
01:00on it. And I think, you know,
01:02let's, you know, I appreciate the
01:04niceties of both
01:06of you appearing before this committee right
01:08now, but I've got to tell you, I think
01:10what's going on here today is that Republicans
01:12are terrified.
01:14And, you know, and I think we all know why.
01:18And that is because the
01:20president doesn't
01:22want to release all the files.
01:24I mean, after promising that he would
01:26release them during the campaign,
01:28then he, that was in 2024,
01:30and then 2025 he says,
01:32it's all a big hoax.
01:34It's perpetrated by Democrats and
01:36some stupid Republicans.
01:38That's his quote verbatim.
01:40So when you say all Republicans
01:42want this stuff released,
01:44I don't think that guy does.
01:46And what you're telling us that you're going to release
01:48some of the files tonight,
01:50if I heard Mr.
01:52Garcia correctly,
01:5497% of which is already
01:56out in public. So we get 3%
01:58that's new, I don't know
02:00what it's going to say. But I just
02:02don't understand what the big deal is. Why can't
02:04the administration just
02:06release the files?
02:08You can do the investigation, but just release
02:10all the files.
02:12You know,
02:14Trump and the people
02:16he put in charge of the FBI
02:18and the DOJ promised that they would.
02:20And it's just kind of strange
02:22that they haven't done so yet. I mean, don't you think?
02:24I mean, we just want to know
02:26what are they trying to hide?
02:28Why is this such a difficult
02:30thing for them to do? You know, before we left
02:32a recess, you guys all told
02:34us that you wanted to release the files
02:36and that a non-binding resolution
02:38authored by Mr. Norman was an important
02:40step forward to getting the Epstein
02:42files released. Why hasn't
02:44that been called up yet?
02:46Mr. Scott had the authority
02:48to do so for weeks.
02:50He could do so this
02:52week. Hasn't done it. I don't know why
02:54not. Maybe Mr. Norman can explain
02:56to us why his Epstein resolution
02:58never made it to the floor. Maybe Mr. Scott
03:00Scott would like to share with us
03:02why he decided not to call
03:04up the rule for his consideration
03:06when it's well within his power to do so.
03:08But honestly, the answers
03:10they give really don't matter because
03:12the resolution was nothing more than
03:14a distraction to buy time.
03:16And I think we're doing the same
03:18again today.
03:20But today's resolution is even worse.
03:22At least Mr. Norman's do-nothing resolution
03:24had a deadline of 30 days.
03:26If I'm reading your resolution correctly,
03:28there's no deadline.
03:30It's just an open-ended distraction
03:32with the same goal.
03:34Protect the powerful, hide the files,
03:36and buy some time for people to forget.
03:38So, you know,
03:40all that has to happen
03:42for the files to be released is one thing.
03:44The Trump administration
03:46needs to release them.
03:48That is all.
03:50And if that's too complicated for some Republicans
03:52to get their arms around, that's okay
03:54because they're in luck.
03:56Someone has already done the work for them.
03:58Because there is a bipartisan bill
04:00offered by Mr. Massey and Mr. Conner
04:02that would force the administration
04:04to release the Epstein files
04:06while protecting the victims.
04:08And Mr. Comer, just for the record,
04:10I think you're not in support
04:12of the Massey-Conner bill,
04:14but let me ask you formally,
04:16do you support the Massey-Conner bill
04:18to release the Epstein files?
04:20We're doing that as we speak.
04:22We're going to be released.
04:24All 34,000 documents will be online,
04:26hopefully in the next five minutes
04:28if they're not now.
04:30Yes, but 97% of which we've already seen.
04:32Mr. Casio.
04:34Yeah, I just want to add, I mean, first,
04:36I appreciate the comments,
04:38but we should be clear.
04:40If it's true, as the chairman said,
04:42that every Republican supports
04:44disclosure around the Epstein files,
04:46then every Republican should sign the discharge petition
04:48from Congressman Conner and Congressman Massey.
04:50There's no question.
04:52And the key difference in that petition as well
04:54is that petition ensures, one,
04:56that members of Congress are all on the record
04:58on releasing the files, and two,
05:00that petition, as you have in front of you,
05:02also ensures that the files actually go
05:04to the American public,
05:06that they're actually released to the public.
05:08I appreciate that the subpoena that we forced a vote on
05:10is going to our committee,
05:12and it's important work.
05:14Most of the, most of the documents
05:16that were sent to our committee,
05:18those initial documents were given to
05:20right-wing influencers back in February.
05:23The files and the full report,
05:25according to the Attorney General,
05:27were sitting on her desk, ready to be released.
05:30We know that the Attorney General herself
05:32has shared with the president directly
05:34that he was also, that he is also in the files.
05:37The reason, and we don't understand why
05:40this cover-up by the president continues
05:42to not release the full files.
05:44And so the discharge petition
05:46is an important additional step forward
05:49for the Congress, the full Congress,
05:50to be on record, to release the full files.
05:53And so that piece is important.
05:55And it's clear that, well,
05:57maybe there are some Republicans in Congress,
05:59and hopefully all, that want to see disclosure.
06:02That is not the case with the Republicans
06:04in the White House and the Department of Justice.
06:05So seven months to get released,
06:0897% of which have already been released.
06:11But again, Mr. Comer, I mean,
06:12do you support the Massey counter-resolution,
06:15yes or no?
06:17We're already doing it.
06:18And, and, and...
06:19No, it's a simple yes or no.
06:20The discharge petition does not have the force of law.
06:23We've already subpoenaed it.
06:25You can be...
06:26And look, I...
06:27And look, I...
06:28No, look, Mr. McGuire, it's very disappointing
06:30that you're trying to politicize this.
06:32We're trying to get answers.
06:33We're trying to do everything that's in this discharge petition,
06:36but, but you're trying to politicize it.
06:38No, I'm, I'm...
06:39No, I'm, I'm...
06:40It's a yes or no question.
06:41It's not a trick question.
06:42I mean, do you think...
06:43We've already done what the discharge petition's asking.
06:46Do you think the resolution saying to keep doing what you were doing
06:50is better than a bill that could become law...
06:52The bill, the bill has no force of law.
06:55It has no force of the law.
06:56Yeah.
06:57You're just trying to do a political stunt.
06:58No, we're talking about...
06:59No, we're talking about...
07:00I have any advice.
07:01Look, ask the question, Mr. McGovern, let him...
07:04Well, I was asking a question.
07:06He interrupted me.
07:07Okay.
07:08Let him...
07:09It's a simple yes or no question.
07:10Simple yes or no question.
07:11Simple yes or no question.
07:12We're already doing it.
07:13All right.
07:14Well, that's not a yes or no, but, but do you think the resolution saying
07:16to keep doing what you were doing is better than a bill that can become law,
07:21which would require the release of all the files?
07:23It doesn't have the force of the law.
07:25It's just a political stunt.
07:27It's just a political stunt.
07:28It's just a political stunt and, you know...
07:29This is a resolution.
07:31The mass economy bill would become law.
07:35If all you Republicans want everything released, then, you know, you could vote for it,
07:40and then if he decides to veto it, you could override the veto.
07:44The subpoena goes further than the discharge petition.
07:48The discharge petition is just a political stunt.
07:50Just a political stunt.
07:52And look, we have done everything bipartisan in this investigation.
07:57This is an opportunity.
07:58And I think most of the Democrats on the Oversight Committee want to be bipartisan in this,
08:03Mr. McGovern.
08:04So you're not going to answer my question.
08:05But look, we're meeting here under an emergency procedure to consider this resolution,
08:11which, if I'm reading it right, simply tells your committee to continue doing what you're doing.
08:15Do you need this resolution to continue doing what you're doing, Mr. Garcia?
08:20I mean...
08:21We don't...
08:22We...
08:23The resolution as presented is not necessary.
08:25Again, we want...
08:27We want disclosure.
08:28We want the files released.
08:29But this...
08:30What should happen is we should vote on the discharge petition and move it forward and then continue our work.
08:33Can I say one more thing, Mr. Ranking Member?
08:35I also want to be clear that the DOJ has not been forthcoming or presented everything that we've asked for in the subpoena.
08:42And I think it's important that even in our recent interaction with the DOJ, they're essentially now not giving us any new additional information as to when we're receiving the rest of the files.
08:51And so having Congress act and taking a vote on the full release of the files is an important additional step, which is why the discharge petition is important.
09:00And the resolution should not somehow take precedent or discourage members from somehow signing the discharge petition.
09:08So help me understand what we're considering right now.
09:10Does this resolution grant you any new authority?
09:13No.
09:14I think the resolution will send a signal if we end up in court.
09:20If, as the victim stated today, that some of the most powerful and some of the richest names in the world were involved in a cover-up, we're going to end up in court.
09:30And I think the resolution will demonstrate that Congress is working in a bipartisan manner, not trying to be partisan, to get the truth to the American people and hold people accountable.
09:41Why don't we do both?
09:42I mean, Mr. Massey, last time I checked, is a Republican.
09:45Other Republicans will sign that.
09:47I mean, why can't we do both?
09:49I think we can.
09:50I think-
09:51Excuse me, Mr. McGrath.
09:52Would the gentleman yield a vote?
09:54Yes.
09:55We can.
09:56We certainly can do both.
09:58Okay.
09:59We'll pass this resolution here.
10:01And then if sufficient people sign the discharge petition, then it will come out.
10:06And it's my understanding, there is a significant difference in the resolution that we have here and the Massey resolution.
10:15And that is, this resolution demands disclosure, whereas the Massey resolution does not.
10:24So I think we can do both.
10:25Yeah.
10:26And let that happen.
10:27We want to show that we want this done in a very, in a very important way.
10:35Well, if we can do both, then why is the Rules Committee standing in the way of allowing, I'm going to have a vote on the Massey counter resolution.
10:45Why would the Rules Committee, why would Republicans of the Rules Committee block us from just bringing it to the floor?
10:52We could, we could vote on both.
10:54That's right.
10:55Because they've already started the discharge petition.
10:57Well.
10:58That doesn't, you can.
10:59They've already started it.
11:00Yeah.
11:01Well, that's a nice, well, that's, whatever.
11:03That's, I, I don't even want to say what I'm thinking about that answer.
11:06But let me, let me, let me, let me just ask, this is a yes or no question.
11:11Does the administration have the power to release the Epstein files with appropriate redactions to protect the victims and the survivors?
11:21Do they have the authority to do that?
11:24I think so, with the subpoena.
11:26Yes.
11:27All right.
11:28They do.
11:29So, but they're not.
11:30And, Mr. Comey, this resolution that was before us right now says that you're investigating mismanagement that led to Mr. Epstein's death.
11:41Who was the President of the United States when Mr. Epstein died in custody?
11:47It would have, I would assume it would have been Trump.
11:50Yeah.
11:51I have another, just one last question.
11:54Um, you, you referred to Ghislaine Maxwell as a terrible individual.
11:59Um, and I guess the question is, maybe you can align us, what do you, what have you done to investigate why Ms. Maxwell was moved to a minimum security facility?
12:09I mean, she's a convicted, uh, child predator, um, uh, sent to prison.
12:16She testifies before, uh, some people in the administration, she didn't testify, she, she, um, answers questions, um, that are put forward by somebody in this administration.
12:28Um, she basically says the President didn't do anything wrong and then all of a sudden is moved to a minimum security, um, facility.
12:39Um, are you, are you going to do, have you done a hearing on that? Are you doing a hearing on that?
12:43We're, we've subpoenaed Ms. Maxwell.
12:46Uh, she sent a letter via her attorneys and said, uh, that she requested that we wait for the deposition until after the Supreme Court rules on her appeal.
12:58Uh, that should, we, we're hoping that's this month.
13:02So, as soon as the Supreme Court rules on her appeal, we'll go in and do a formal deposition.
13:08So, Mr. Garcia will be there, I'll be there if he wants to be there.
13:11No, I'm, I'm not interested.
13:12And, and those questions can be asked. Those are legitimate questions.
13:15Well, I, but I don't, I don't think Ms. Maxwell can answer those questions.
13:18I mean, I, I listened to some of her interview and it sounded like there was no cross-examination.
13:23I'm just curious why after she said what she said, was she moved?
13:27So it's not about Ms. Maxwell.
13:29It's about somebody made the decision to move her, uh, which I, I don't think, uh, was expected.
13:36Mr. Garcia?
13:37Yeah, I mean, look, let's be, let's be really clear.
13:39Um, first of all, Democrats on the committee, we did not support moving Ghislaine Maxwell's testimony,
13:44testimony after the Supreme Court heard her, heard her appeal.
13:47In fact, that was a decision that, um, the majority made that we did not support.
13:50We think that Ms. Maxwell, before she was interviewed by Donald Trump's former personal lawyer,
13:56should have been in front of a bipartisan committee in a deposition.
13:59And so to be clear, uh, and I think it's safe to say that it's an outrage and shameful that
14:05Ghislaine Maxwell was moved to a facility where she is now more comfortable and has more access,
14:11uh, to, to folks both on the outside and her ability to, to, to move freely when she has victimized over hundreds and hundreds of women.
14:21And I'll, and I'll add one more thing to that.
14:23We've written to the DOJ, the Federal Bureau of Prisons, demanding answers, yet no response from the Attorney General.
14:30We have no idea why she was moved and who actually, at whose direction was she moved to that facility.
14:35But she was moved, and correct me if I'm wrong, by this current administration, right?
14:41Absolutely.
14:42I mean, I, I, I just, and I, and I, again, I, I would think that, you know, I mean, this is so outrageous that, that, that, that a big part of the investigation of your oversight committee should be on that as well.
14:55Um, and I mean, I, I, I hope that, I hope that you pursue that.
14:59But, but again, I, I mean, I, um, I, I think it is imperative that we pass the Massey-Kana bill.
15:08Um, because I think it does have the, the force of law.
15:12Um, and, um, because I don't, I don't trust this administration, uh, to basically, I mean, something's going on here.
15:19I don't know what, but there's a reason why everybody went from we're going to release the files one day to the next day saying we're not.
15:25Um, so in the, in the spirit of full transparency and the spirit of demanding that they do what they said they were going to do,
15:31I think it's, it, I think we need to do more, uh, than what we're doing.
15:36Mr. Comer?
15:37Yeah, uh, I was just told by counsel, the documents pertaining to the move would fall under the Department of Justice subpoena.
15:44So I think that's a fair question, that, that I'm confident if we don't ask it, Mr. Garcia will, in a, whenever we're.
15:51Yeah, I'll tell you, this whole episode has been outrageous and it's disgusting.
15:56Um, and it's been strange, especially the way this Congress has dealt with it up to this point.
16:02And so, uh, so, so some of us believe we ought to, you know, we ought to also pass the Massey-Kana bill.
16:09And I hope that we will do that.
16:10And I hope my friends on the Rules Committee will allow us to offer it, um, because I'll bring it up as an amendment.
16:16I yield back.
16:18Thank you, Mr. McGovern.
16:19Ms. Fischbach, you're recognized.
16:21Thank you, ma'am.
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