- 4 months ago
- #manojkumarjha
- #india
- #politics
Manoj Kumar Jha, professor, politician, analyst, speaks to Outlook about his new book, 'In Praise of Coalition Politics and Other Essays on Indian Democracy' (Speaking Tiger Books, 2025). He says it wasn't just the outcome of the 2024 Lok Sabha election, reducing the BJP's strength in the Lok Sabha, forcing it to rely on allies, that brought his focus to coalitions. It was his conviction that coalitions of myriad kinds define the very idea of India.
00:00 – 00:32 | Bihar and the Crisis of Documentation
00:34 – 01:06 | The Weight of Supreme Court Orders
01:11 – 01:55 | India as a Coalition of Histories
02:01 – 02:57 | Coalition as Political Strength
03:05 – 03:59 | From Mandates to Dependencies
04:04 – 05:08 | The Decline of Dialogue in Parliament
05:17 – 06:11 | Coalition as Cultural Glue
06:17 – 07:48 | Citizenship and the Obedient Citizen
08:12 – 09:37 | Bihar and the Burden of Proof
10:14 – 11:06 | Assault on Federalism
11:15 – 12:30 | Draconian Laws and Political Control
12:37 – 14:05 | Fear, Infiltration, and Dog Whistles
15:00 – 16:23 | Partition’s Wounds and New Divides
17:00 – 17:38 | Writing Perpetual Wars into History
17:41 – 19:44 | The Shrinking Space for Debate
20:01 – 21:47 | Words, Poetry, and Parliament
21:53 – 23:11 | Remembering Gandhi and Nehru
23:16 – 25:13 | Letters Across Time
25:17 – 26:26 | Why the Young Must Read
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#ManojKumarJha #India #Politics
00:00 – 00:32 | Bihar and the Crisis of Documentation
00:34 – 01:06 | The Weight of Supreme Court Orders
01:11 – 01:55 | India as a Coalition of Histories
02:01 – 02:57 | Coalition as Political Strength
03:05 – 03:59 | From Mandates to Dependencies
04:04 – 05:08 | The Decline of Dialogue in Parliament
05:17 – 06:11 | Coalition as Cultural Glue
06:17 – 07:48 | Citizenship and the Obedient Citizen
08:12 – 09:37 | Bihar and the Burden of Proof
10:14 – 11:06 | Assault on Federalism
11:15 – 12:30 | Draconian Laws and Political Control
12:37 – 14:05 | Fear, Infiltration, and Dog Whistles
15:00 – 16:23 | Partition’s Wounds and New Divides
17:00 – 17:38 | Writing Perpetual Wars into History
17:41 – 19:44 | The Shrinking Space for Debate
20:01 – 21:47 | Words, Poetry, and Parliament
21:53 – 23:11 | Remembering Gandhi and Nehru
23:16 – 25:13 | Letters Across Time
25:17 – 26:26 | Why the Young Must Read
Follow us:
Website: https://www.outlookindia.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Outlookindia
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/outlookindia/
X: https://twitter.com/Outlookindia
Whatsapp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VaNrF3v0AgWLA6OnJH0R
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@OutlookMagazine
Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/outlookindia
#ManojKumarJha #India #Politics
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NewsTranscript
00:00PM was there in the house. HM was also there.
00:03And I said,
00:05Opposition side clapped.
00:11That minister sahab also clapped.
00:14Then somebody went to him close and
00:17So he came out.
00:20Incidentally after some time I also went out.
00:22He told me,
00:30The coalition is one of the most important things.
00:36Besides the other Indian democracy,
00:39There are different interventions in the article.
00:50I always think about this coalition
00:54Which is also relevant in this book.
00:57India essentially is an idea of coalition.
01:02Coalition of many histories
01:06Pulled together.
01:07Brought together.
01:08Many cultures.
01:10Many people.
01:12Many ideas.
01:17Dress.
01:18Attitude.
01:19Food.
01:20Region.
01:21Religion.
01:22So,
01:23Essentially what I wish to say that
01:26If you.
01:27One has to look at India.
01:28It has to look at the layers of coalition.
01:31India has built over the years.
01:33What Nehru used to call.
01:36Palimpset.
01:37Layer after layer.
01:39No layer erases any other layer.
01:41Or any other writing.
01:43This essentially was the backdrop.
01:45And I always felt.
01:46I have felt.
01:47And history also is a witness.
01:50There are evidence.
01:51Evidences galore.
01:53That coalition governments in India.
01:56Have performed better.
01:58When it is about.
02:00Pro people policies.
02:02And I think that was one of the guiding principle for me.
02:05To look at the idea of coalition.
02:08As one of the major.
02:09Essays in this book.
02:11I have always believed.
02:12That the first government of Indian national congress.
02:15Right.
02:16Was basically.
02:17A coalition of ideas.
02:19Look at the first cabinet of Nehru.
02:21It represented people.
02:23It had people.
02:24Who did not agree with them.
02:26Each other.
02:27Or almost.
02:28Hundred percent issues.
02:30They had differences.
02:31But they came together.
02:32To write a fresh.
02:34Trajectory.
02:35For India.
02:36Professor Manush Kumar.
02:37Many congratulations.
02:38On your new book.
02:39Aapne coalition ko theme.
02:40Aapne kitab.
02:41Aapne kitab.
02:42The book had.
02:43Initially.
02:44Different.
02:45Kind of mandate.
02:46Shape in my mind.
02:47But.
02:48When the publisher.
02:49And his team.
02:51We started working.
02:52I think.
02:53It was immediately.
02:54After.
02:55The looks of our results.
02:57So.
02:58Suddenly.
02:59A political party.
03:01Which.
03:02Was giving.
03:03A slogan.
03:04Of.
03:05Of.
03:06The.
03:07They were reduced.
03:08To.
03:09To 39 40 seats.
03:10And had to be dependent.
03:11On.
03:12Our.
03:13To our adversary.
03:14At some point.
03:15Of time.
03:16TDP.
03:17And.
03:18JDU.
03:19And.
03:20Then.
03:21We started talking about it.
03:23And.
03:24That's how.
03:25I think.
03:26Apart from.
03:27Coalition.
03:28Which is a major.
03:29Assay.
03:30There are other issues.
03:31Assays.
03:32Around.
03:33Indian democracy.
03:34associated things with democratic civitas or democratic spirit.
03:40And that's how the title is in praise of coalition politics and other essays on Indian democracy.
03:48One of the things that you do touch upon quite frequently is the relationship between the citizen and the politician.
03:55But also a little bit on the relationship between people in the Rajya Sabha and in the other houses.
04:02What is the interaction like? How has it changed in the last decade?
04:06If I talk about my personal experience, I would tell you that I consider myself very privileged or blessed
04:16that when I rise to speak, generally I don't get hooting or whatever goes in parliament.
04:27So I feel I'm very lucky. But otherwise, I believe the level of engagement with each other has gone drastically wrong.
04:36And I have been saying this, that political parties, whether ruling or opposition, they are two different entities,
04:46maybe with two different propositions about the idea of India, but we are not enemies of each other.
04:53So war vocabulary should not be employed while addressing the other.
04:59I don't know why, but the war vocabulary dominates.
05:04And that's why I have emphasized on the idea of coalition.
05:08Because coalition, essentially, it's not only about politics, it's about how ideas converge, how ideas meet another set of ideas,
05:19how different culture, different region, different religion.
05:23That's essentially, for instance, I'll tell you, the constitution says India is a union of states.
05:31But what it is unwritten but true, that India is a union of states based on the coalition of cultures, histories, religion, region,
05:42different tastes, different attitude, different temperament.
05:46That's why one of the strongest thing in favor of India is our diversity.
05:54And the coalition maintains that diversity.
05:57Do you also want to reflect on the relationship between the people and the state?
06:02You know, from the context of federalism also, which is something you touch upon,
06:07but also between the individual citizen and the state.
06:10Now in Bihar, we are seeing that the citizenship is being re-looked at in a sense.
06:15And there's a lot of controversy around it.
06:17So has that relationship changed?
06:19I won't say that this has changed, but there is a threat on it.
06:25Not only now, but if you look back during the emergency,
06:29the relationship between the state and the citizen, it underwent change.
06:34Every totalitarian regime, and I have no hesitation in saying that the present regime has totalitarian temptation,
06:47in spite of the fact that they are working under the pressure of coalition.
06:52There is a tendency to define a citizen.
06:55There is an idea that a good citizen is one who is obedient citizen.
07:00I personally believe obedience is a virtue which should at times be seen with a critical eye.
07:12Whether it's an obedient son or a daughter, or obedient faithful in front of the God, or obedient citizens.
07:21Because obedience is compliance.
07:25It takes away your critical faculty.
07:28And that's why you would find Ambedkar Sahab's words will remind you, hero worship, cult.
07:38So when the person who is heading the government, and who has control over the state's organs,
07:45if he starts, he or she starts believing that he is the cult, he is the supreme.
07:52So the very way constitution defines the relationship between the state and the citizen, it undergoes change.
08:00Now in this case of SIR, what is fundamentally, I will not go into hundreds of criticism, which I have made in different newspapers.
08:10I am a petitioner in the honorable Supreme Court.
08:13But what is important, you are shifting the onus on the citizens.
08:19On citizenship issue, there are mechanisms.
08:24There should be an objective.
08:26Who questions my citizenship?
08:28There are procedures for it.
08:30But then what you are doing, you are asking me to prove I am an Indian citizen.
08:36Why do I say this?
08:38You know, Bihar is one of the most document deficient states.
08:44Except for Aadhaar, which has, I am told, 86 to 87% saturation.
08:51Rest all other documents which have been sought, matriculation certificate, residency certificate and so on and so forth.
08:58These are not more than 18, 20, 22%.
09:02In that kind of state, in an election year, within a span of one month,
09:09And by September, you will announce the election.
09:12And if the voter list is prepared, by whatever means, it shall be frozen.
09:18So if my name is missing, I don't even get an opportunity.
09:22So, I mean, ultimately, what is at stake?
09:28The idea of citizenship as defined in the constitution.
09:33Because the people who are controlling different organs in this state today,
09:38They believe they have the right, and right to do it, whether it is legally attainable, or appropriate,
09:49Or it matches the principles of constitutional morality.
09:53That's why this is questionable.
09:55Is this also questioning of the principle of federalism?
09:58Look at the bills this government brought.
10:01Since 2014, all the bills, if you read, they attack federal principle.
10:11There is a tendency to appropriate.
10:15I mean, without reading any bill, one point of criticism is common amongst all the bills.
10:23What is that?
10:24That it attacks the way federalism was defined in Indian constitution.
10:30The way it has been conveyed by different judgments of the Honorable Supreme Court.
10:36And I tell you, it happens with a government, which has a simple majority, but has a majoritarian temptation.
10:47A majoritarian temptation is antithetical to the idea of inclusive democracy.
10:54It should have made coalition difficult.
10:57But then, you must also look at yesterday, in fact, or day before.
11:03The Home Minister brought a bill in the Lok Sabha, which is likely to be sent to a joint committee of parliament.
11:12Right.
11:13That's on.
11:14Look at it, what it has done.
11:17It has played with the idea of natural law.
11:21In our legal framework, there is a difference between accused and convicted.
11:30Now that distinction is over.
11:3230 days you are in jail.
11:35You didn't get bail.
11:37And you won't get bail with the draconian law called money laundering.
11:42So you lose your opposition and it's an interference in the political will also of the people.
11:49It attacks federalism.
11:51And the unwritten part in the bill is that maybe all unwilling opposition ruled states or even states which are being ruled by the present set of friends, but their friendship is not guaranteed.
12:10So it's a kind of, so on, 24-7.
12:14So then what does this mean for the relationship between, you know, just getting neta or jo unko chunne wale logane.
12:21Because when Outlook recently went to Bihar and spoke to people, there was a lot of fear and concern regarding SIR.
12:28But there was also fear and concern regarding infiltration.
12:32You see, there is that fear which has been spread.
12:35So, is the social coalition weaker or is the majoritarian tendency very strong?
12:43Majoritarian tendency was very strong, but it is meeting roadblocks in terms of people's solidarity, people's movements.
12:53It is meeting political movements.
12:55It is meeting a kind of resistance where, I mean, where the majoritarian ethos is finding it difficult to go ahead.
13:03But I will tell you what is very important in Bihar, that this infiltration thing is dog-whistling.
13:13They did it in Jaarkat.
13:15I mean, common sense tells you that even if one infiltration is there, a prime minister chose 15th of August to do the same kind of dog whistle politics from the ramparts of Lalkila.
13:31If he was so convinced of this menace, he should first ask resignation of home minister.
13:40He has been home minister for very long.
13:43You can't keep on repeating the same dialogue, rhetorical one in Bengal, in Jharkhand, now in Bihar.
13:49And we asked the election commissioner.
13:52In fact, certain journalists asked.
13:57They said we don't have any data.
13:59Right.
14:00BLA, BLOs, BLOs don't have any data.
14:02So, essentially what it is, it's dog whistling.
14:05In support of my argument, you deported certain Bangla-speaking individuals.
14:12You have to bring them back.
14:15That's right.
14:16Because their citizenship was proved.
14:18In haste, if you are Bangla-speaking and you happen to be a Muslim.
14:24I mean, it's a straight away kind of police understanding that you should be thrown to Bangladesh.
14:32What is happening in Gurgaon, in Delhi.
14:36I mean, people who are ruling today, those who are running the government, they do not know they are playing with fire.
14:43Why do you say that?
14:45Look, I believe we had a partition.
14:50Partition was massive.
14:53Thousands of lives were lost on both sides of the body.
14:58Some healing started subsequently.
15:01Now, what you are doing, you are, I mean, forget healing.
15:08You are opening new wounds, which don't exist many a time.
15:13Imaginary wounds.
15:15Imaginary injuries.
15:17Can, I repeat, can our country, which is civilizational in entity, which is coalitional in spirit, of food, dress, religion, faith,
15:30all kinds of possibilities are there.
15:33Can we survive this?
15:35It shall be difficult.
15:36Essentially, an average Indian is accommodative of different sets of people, ideas, religion, an ideal Indian.
15:47In spite of warning signals, I mean, it's government can, governments can erase history, delete a particular portion.
15:58Memory doesn't.
16:00Each time you would see Lalkila, you would understand who built it.
16:06I'm not a great fan of kings and badshahs, but I know this is not how you deal with history.
16:14History has its own logic.
16:17Most of the histories have been written by the people who were successful, who won wars.
16:23But, those who lost the wars, are not obliterated.
16:29They are also remembered.
16:31That's why, I remember I have said it quite often, that in Bihar, we had a chapter on a medieval history, Mughal history.
16:41Two questions used to come almost every alternate year.
16:47Describe how Akbar was a national monarch.
16:50And the same question shall have.
16:53Discuss how Rana Purtap was a national hero.
16:56In the history books, Akbar did not fight Rana Purtap, but the ones today, those who have control of the government, they want not only the wars which happened in the past, they want perpetual wars between different sets of people from history to engage with each other.
17:21One line from your book, I want to remind you of it.
17:24The clamour for parliament to function as an efficient law manufacturing machine leaves little space for meaningful public debate.
17:33Can you explain this?
17:34You know, you must be noticing, even newspapers report, lawmakers in parliament, we are considered lawmakers because we have a say in the making of the law.
17:46We are called lawmakers, but Radhakrishnan, the first chairman of Rajasava, he was very emphatical in saying that apart from law making, deliberation is crucial in both the houses, more so in Rajasava.
18:06Rajasava is considered to be a house which can control its passion.
18:12It's called the house of elders, the upper house, council of states.
18:18So the presumption is apart from routine business, which is government's job to bring in legislation on where it has to intervene.
18:29The crucial function of deliberation is being set aside and which is obvious through the number of sittings we have.
18:36Now, number of days, it's shrinking.
18:44If you consider the first parliament and if you make a graph, the graph will go like this.
18:50Down, down, down.
18:52Now, what deliberation does?
18:56You would notice that most of the newspapers, media and people are very happy when the deliberations take place.
19:06A law which is passed in 10 minutes, people don't get to know anything.
19:11But when a law is debated for five hours, six hours, you know different perspective about that particular law, which the majority in any way will pass.
19:20But at least you learn about different perspectives.
19:23So that's the deliberation part of it.
19:25And it becomes a part of the public record.
19:27Public record, public memory.
19:29Yes.
19:30And I'll tell you, this every parliamentarian knows.
19:35And almost every parliamentarian is unhappy about it, whether from the treasury benches or the opposition side.
19:45Now, you narrate one interesting episode where somebody in the Rajasabha phrased a speech of yours and then they called you later and said, marvao ga yaar.
19:56Actually, it was Vaseem Varelvi.
20:00The lines from?
20:01The lines from Vaseem Varelvi.
20:03PM was there in the house.
20:05HM was also there.
20:07And I said, in response to certain things, the concluding lines were,
20:14Woh jhoot bol raha tha bade salike se.
20:17Main aytabaar na karta toh kya karta.
20:20So opposition side clapped.
20:23That minister sahab also clapped.
20:26Thumb the desk.
20:28Then somebody went to him close and, kaan mein kuch ka.
20:33So he came out.
20:35Incidentally, after sometime I also went out.
20:39He told me, marvao ga kya.
20:41So basically it was that.
20:45And what I'll tell you, ironically, that was not expensed.
20:49Woh jhoot bol raha tha bade salike se.
20:52Lekin jhoot is a parliamentary, unparliamentary word.
20:56Okay.
20:58Toh jitni bhi poetry hai.
21:01Uus mein asatye kam hai.
21:03Asatye shabd.
21:04Jhoot hi jyaadha chalta hai.
21:06Ab agar mujhe kehna hai, jhoot bol raha kaate.
21:11Agar usko mai kaho asatye bol raha kaate.
21:14Toh it doesn't fit it.
21:16It doesn't resonate.
21:17Toh kabhi-kabhi mujhko ye bhi lagta hai,
21:19ki parlamintary, unparlamintary.
21:21Decide karna bhi bada mushkil hai.
21:23Jhoot shabd unparlamintary ho gaya.
21:25Halanki uske baad jyadha zikr huwa jhoot shabd ka.
21:29Mere us shairi ke baad.
21:31You know, why such a lot of focus on Gandhi and Mahatma Gandhi?
21:36Why as Bapu you are remembering me?
21:39Two things I would like to tell you.
21:42First, both Gandhi and Nehru, you would find the essay more in terms of writing, letter writing.
21:53I love this genre, letter writing.
21:56I have a fondness for it.
21:59And one of the reasons I admired Nehru, was the reason that he was a terrific letter writer.
22:06He used to write to everyone, every chief minister.
22:09Even one of my friend who is a professor in Ames, he sent me a letter recently.
22:15He is doing some archival work.
22:17He sent me a letter where an ordinary girl from Western UP wrote a letter to Nehru.
22:24And she got a response from the PM.
22:28Imagine a PM who was seeing what partition had done to India, what will.
22:35So, remembering Gandhi, Bapu and Nehru is also reflective of the fact that things are not well with us.
22:49So, you often remember when you are worried.
22:54And I will tell you all these things.
22:57This is my letter writing.
22:59Although, I have two daughters.
23:02I have two daughters.
23:04I will give a gift from both of them.
23:08I have to write a letter from their childhood.
23:11Every birthday.
23:13And it is not a very significant letter.
23:15But that letter will contain almost Nehruvian kind of thing that what is happening around me.
23:22And what is happening around the country at that particular point of time.
23:27But after 2014, when I saw erosion in institutional capacities or inclination which was not desirable amongst institutions.
23:40Procedure being defied.
23:43And all with a clap.
23:45With the support of a significant majority.
23:49Not overwhelming but a significant majority.
23:52That was the time I picked up this genre once again.
23:56To write about contemporary issues.
23:59There are certain letters which are not there in this.
24:02For instance, last year I imagined writing to Narendra Modi ji our Prime Minister.
24:09From the first Prime Minister of India.
24:11Jawaharlal Nehru.
24:12Recently while they were.
24:14This week was going on emergency.
24:17Ji.
24:1850 years.
24:19I wrote a letter from Jayaprakash Narayan to Modi ji.
24:23What he meant when he was fighting Indiraji.
24:26He was not fighting Indiraji as an individual.
24:30He was fighting Indiraji because of her totalitarian politics.
24:34Because of her dictatorial position.
24:37So if I see those kind of symptoms once again today.
24:42What do we do?
24:44Speak in Rajasabha, Lok Sabha.
24:47But at the same time.
24:49Try looking about today.
24:52Through the eyes of those.
24:54Who were instrumental in.
24:56Laying the foundation of what we call.
24:59Idea of India.
25:00Why would young people be interested.
25:03In reading.
25:04A book.
25:06Of essays.
25:07Look.
25:08I tell you.
25:09If I remember.
25:10Because a lot is written on India.
25:13All the time.
25:14We seem to.
25:15To do that.
25:16Quite a bit.
25:17But.
25:18What.
25:19What is it that you think.
25:20Will.
25:21Stand.
25:22In good stead.
25:23With.
25:24A younger audience.
25:25Being.
25:26A professor.
25:27There is a.
25:28General tendency.
25:29Of.
25:30Reading.
25:31Text.
25:32By the.
25:33This generation.
25:34Less of it.
25:35But.
25:36I.
25:37Also believe.
25:38That this tendency.
25:39Of.
25:40This generation.
25:41Is being challenged.
25:42Many.
25:43From within.
25:44The generation.
25:45And.
25:46And.
25:47Somewhere.
25:48Once.
25:49People.
25:50Are able.
25:51To see.
25:52That.
25:53What.
25:54Post truth.
25:55Has done.
25:56Or.
25:57Alternative truth.
25:58Has done.
25:59To.
26:00Their life.
26:01Their politics.
26:02They shall.
26:03Reverse it.
26:04And.
26:05A day.
26:06Will come.
26:07Soon.
26:08When.
26:09People.
26:10Will.
26:11Realize.
26:12That.
26:13You cannot.
26:14Understand.
26:15The world.
26:16Without.
26:17Reading.
26:18The printed word.
26:19One.
26:20No.
26:21Feel.
26:21One.
26:22Two.
26:23On.
26:24Two.
26:25One.
26:26Two.
26:27Two.
26:29I know.
26:30Two.
26:31Three.
26:32Two.
26:33And.
26:34Two.
26:35Two.
26:36Two.
26:37шь.
26:38One.
26:39Two.
26:40Two.
26:41Two.
26:42Two.
26:43Two.
26:44Two.
26:45Three.
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