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00:00I see fear on people's faces and I want them to be afraid.
00:05It's climate change.
00:062024 was the hottest year on record.
00:08The common van will be suffering the most.
00:10The sea levels are rising, glaciers are melting.
00:13If the governments implement policies that would lead to net zero,
00:17those governments would fall, collapse.
00:20So our next topic, sir, would be something that you and I both are very passionate about.
00:27It's climate change.
00:29It's something that even the common man is aware of today because we're seeing temperatures rising at levels we haven't seen.
00:352024 was the hottest year on record.
00:38The sea levels are rising.
00:39Temperatures are going through the roof.
00:41Glaciers are melting.
00:42Heat waves as well as wildfires are claiming lives more and more as far as heat waves are concerned.
00:48We're seeing them becoming more frequent, more intense for longer periods of time.
00:52And that is the prediction that comes out practically every single year,
00:56that it seems to be breaking the previous year's record.
00:58What, according to you, drives you so closely, you know, you're so passionate about climate change?
01:06We don't hear many spiritual leaders talk about climate change.
01:10See, spirituality is about freedom from suffering, no?
01:15Human welfare.
01:16And the biggest threat to the welfare of not just our species, but all species on the planet,
01:25is climate change.
01:26It's an imminent threat.
01:27It's right hanging over our head.
01:30So, one has to talk of it.
01:33One cannot be spiritual and not talk of climate change today.
01:36If one doesn't talk of climate change, one is neither spiritual nor material.
01:41He's just foolish, just ignorant, you know?
01:42Because even your material interests are going to be severely compromised, the climate crisis.
01:49It's the Anthropocene.
01:51It's the sixth mass extinction we are entering.
01:55The only difference is that this time it is totally man-made.
01:59Right, you've written over a hundred books, and of course, I read your book, Climate Within.
02:04And according to you, it's overpopulation and overconsumption that's leading to this climate change that we're seeing.
02:14If these two policies are adopted by the government, do you think we can tackle the problem?
02:20Where is the government coming from?
02:23From the same people who proliferate, increase population, and are sold out to consumerism, they are also the voters.
02:33So, how does one rely on the government to enact policies that are going to violate the wishes of the voter?
02:42Isn't the consumer himself the voter?
02:44Obviously, yes.
02:45So, how will the governments take any action?
02:48You see, we have had the Paris Accord.
02:52And noble aims we set for ourselves, and all heads of governments, they agreed it was a big gathering.
02:57Probably the biggest in recent decades.
03:01What happened of that?
03:02Are we anywhere close to realizing the mandate of the Paris Accord?
03:06We've asked us, crossed that 1.5 degree pre-industrial threshold.
03:12We've crossed it.
03:13It was 1.66 in 2024.
03:16Yes, yes.
03:16And we wanted to reduce our emissions by around 50%, 44% to be exact, by 2030.
03:24Now, instead of reducing them, as of 2025, we stand at around 3% increase, a global 3% increase.
03:33Instead of minus 44%, we stand at plus 3%.
03:37And that's when all governments duly agreed, ratified, signed, there were country-specific deliverables.
03:46This is what you have to achieve as a country.
03:48This is what you have to achieve.
03:49This is what you have to achieve.
03:50And all heads of governments went back with that sheet.
03:53This is what we'll implement.
03:54And they said 2030, minus 44%, 2050, net zero.
03:59None of that is going to happen because if the governments implement policies that would lead to net zero, those governments would fall, collapse.
04:08Really?
04:09Because the rich are the ones who are contributing maximum.
04:13Yes, because the rich contribute maximum to the budgets of the political parties and the poor contribute to the votes of the political parties.
04:21And neither the rich nor the poor are ready to see the crisis in its face.
04:27We all are trying to avoid the bare naked fact.
04:32In some sense, we are all climate denialists.
04:35None of us want to accept that it is here.
04:40It is not a thing of the future.
04:43People often say, you know, in the third world is much more worried about things that are more pressing, more urgent.
04:49You cannot worry about something that's 20 years into the future.
04:52It's not 20 years into the future.
04:54It's right here.
04:56What's worse?
04:56What's worse?
04:58This 1.5 degrees that you mentioned is the trigger point, the activation point.
05:05For a lot of feedback loops.
05:07And that's why the 1.5 degrees thing was so significant.
05:13This figure 1.5 was so critical.
05:16Because once this limit is breached, several irreversible feedback loops get activated.
05:24And they are not man controlled.
05:28We made them, but we cannot control them.
05:31They are autonomous.
05:32They operate on their own.
05:34And also, they are feedback loops.
05:36Which means that once they start, they intensify on their own, even without human intervention.
05:43Which means that even if we try to mend our ways and to correct the situation by reducing the emissions,
05:51after the loops have initiated, the loops would not only just still carry on, but also intensify.
05:59Which means that the things have slipped out of our hand totally now.
06:03So you are trying to say the onus doesn't lie on every individual and that they need to also be responsible towards their carbon footprint?
06:09Obviously, obviously, obviously.
06:10And the onus lies much, much more on them who understand where we currently are placed.
06:20Because the common man, he has been conditioned, trained to live a life of denial.
06:29Some kind of tunnel vision where you don't want to look beyond what you call your immediate priorities.
06:33When I talk of feedback loops, and I try to talk of them as much as possible, and I'll exploit this opportunity as well to talk of them.
06:43I see fear on people's faces.
06:46And I want them to be afraid.
06:48Because it is happening right here, right now, within their lifetimes.
06:53And it's their kids that are going to bear the very cruel brunt of it.
06:58So they need to know at least 10 kinds of extremely vicious feedback loops have been initiated, and the media is not talking about it.
07:09And they are not difficult to understand.
07:11It's a very, very simple thing if you see.
07:14We talk of rising sea levels.
07:16We understand that the excess water is coming from the glaciers.
07:20The glaciers are melting.
07:21We know of that.
07:22We talk of receding glaciers.
07:24What are the glaciers exposing if they are melting?
07:27They are exposing bare rock.
07:29And the rock is darker in color.
07:33Ice or snow is white in color.
07:36It reflects the sunlight back.
07:38It doesn't absorb it.
07:39Whereas when ice melts, it exposes the darker rock.
07:44And that is, since being dark, it absorbs light.
07:48So it gets heated up.
07:49And if it gets heated up, what would it do to the ice on it?
07:53It would heat up the ice, and the ice would melt even faster.
07:57And that's a feedback loop.
07:59So ice melts.
08:01Ice melts.
08:02Rock is exposed.
08:03Rock absorbs even more sunlight.
08:05Because of that, even more ice melts.
08:08And when more ice melts, more rock is absorbed.
08:10And that's one feedback loop.
08:12Next, this is when we are talking of the glaciers, then there is something called the permafrost that you see in Siberia, in Alaska, in the Taiga regions, where the topsoil itself has remained frozen.
08:29And having remained frozen, it contains massive deposits of ancient methane.
08:37Now that is melting.
08:38And we know that the greenhouse potential of methane is 20 times more than that of carbon dioxide.
08:46We keep talking of CO2.
08:47Right.
08:47Whereas CH4 is the monster in the room.
08:52Absolutely.
08:52And that monster is being released.
08:54The Pandora's box has been opened.
08:56And it is releasing methane.
08:57And that methane is going there.
08:59And when methane goes there, temperatures increase further.
09:01When they increase further, the permafrost melts even more.
09:04And even more methane is released.
09:06Similarly, the oceans.
09:10Water vapor itself is a greenhouse gas.
09:13You heat up the oceans.
09:14And you are generating water vapor.
09:16And water vapor increases the absorption of the solar radiation even more.
09:22And that heats up the ocean even more.
09:23And more water vapor is released.
09:25And the cycle and cycle and cycle.
09:26Similarly, a warmer sea surface absorbs CO2 even lesser.
09:36So, the oceans have served as natural carbon sinks since long.
09:43But the solubility of carbon dioxide in water decreases with rise in temperature.
09:49Which means lesser carbon dioxide is being absorbed by warmer oceans.
09:56So, you know, the more the pollution that we are throwing out, that is causing, you know, a lot of warming.
10:03Basically, it's trapping the heat and it's not letting it escape.
10:06And that in turn is warming up the atmosphere.
10:08That is what we are seeing.
10:09All kind of records, like you mentioned, are being broken.
10:12And this is the cycle and the pattern that is being followed.
10:15What is the solution to, say, pollution?
10:18Something that there have been policies and policies, but nothing seems to be working.
10:21See, even now, the common man, not just in the global south, but even in places like America,
10:31you would be surprised, is releasing a quantity of carbon, which is more or less sustainable.
10:45And I'm talking not just of the common man in India, but in the US as well.
10:49Carbon emissions, the bulk of them are coming from the top 5% of the population, the rich ones.
11:01Specifically, specifically the top 1%.
11:03Right.
11:04The most developed countries are contributing more to...
11:07No, not the countries, not the countries.
11:09Even within US, even within US...
11:11It is the rich, of course.
11:12It is only the rich and the ultra-rich that are really responsible for the bulk of the carbon emissions.
11:21Also, the emissions that are being contributed by the common man, they are being encouraged and motivated by the rich.
11:28You see, the rich are rich because they sell products to the common middle class.
11:33Right.
11:33They are rich because they are getting money from you and me as consumers and customers.
11:39And how are we turned into customers?
11:41By diluting and corrupting our basic philosophy of life.
11:46We are told, unless you consume, your life is not rich.
11:51It's a materialistic world.
11:53The more what is being conceived, the more you have, the better it is.
11:56Yes.
11:56And they implant this materialistic philosophy in your mind so that they may not just remain rich,
12:04but have a surging bottom line year after year.
12:09Even a constant level of profits won't suffice.
12:13Even the profits have to rise by a particular percentage every year.
12:16How will that happen if you and I don't consume?
12:18So they encourage us not just to consume, but also to proliferate.
12:22Don't you see many of them keep saying increased population, population collapse is happening,
12:27population decline is a big threat.
12:28Don't you see why they are saying this?
12:30Because if you don't exist as a customer, to whom will...
12:34Help us establish a link between, you know, inner loneliness and over-consuming things.
12:41Why do we all have these wish lists that we want this and if we have this, then we'll be happy.
12:45No, you don't have it.
12:45You don't have it.
12:46You have been subjected to it.
12:49You are not born with it.
12:50You see, it's a propaganda.
12:53Loneliness is a propaganda.
12:56You are being told that you are lonely so that you may purchase something as your companion.
13:03The thing that you purchase as your companion could be a material object or an animate person.
13:09It doesn't matter who he is.
13:10The thing is, whether you bring this home or whether you enter into a wedding arrangement with someone,
13:17somebody's pockets are going to get lined.
13:22Weddings are fat occasions of consumerism, aren't they?
13:27So, loneliness too, if you would look at it, is a consumerist concept.
13:33We are being made to feel lonely.
13:36The culture is being driven by money.
13:40There are movies and you look at those movies and you say, you know, there are a couple there
13:45and they're having such a great time and I'm the only one without a partner
13:49and you never bother to ask who is financing that movie
13:53and why must it carry only a particular kind of script?
13:57Is it something about the very nature of homo sapiens or is it something more social, more external?
14:05So, you would say consumerism is the root cause of ecological damage?
14:09Of course.
14:10And that consumerism is being fueled by the capitalist who wants to turn the entire world into customers
14:21because just producing isn't enough.
14:25You must also produce customers.
14:28Producing a product, a material doesn't suffice.
14:31You must also produce a customer.
14:33And a man or a woman can be turned into a customer only by making him feel deprived, unriched and lonely.
14:42The more desperate and frustrated and inwardly poor you can make a person feel,
14:50the more he'll feel like going out and shopping.
14:52So, is guilt what, you know, the role that guilt plays when it comes to people, you know, falling into this trap?
15:01Even that guilt is a construct.
15:04You have been trained to feel guilty.
15:07If you don't have these many things in your life, then you're not living it up.
15:11Or if you're not able to provide these many things to your kids, then you're not the ideal parent.
15:16Don't you look at their taglines?
15:19There is a product and then it says the ideal man.
15:22Or the complete man.
15:24Or the loved woman.
15:27Now love has been tied very shrewdly to a product.
15:32If someone can bring that product to you.
15:36The love language for people has become gifts.
15:39There was this ad.
15:41A very, very veteran ad.
15:44So the wife has to feel unloved if she's not gifted this particular pressure cooker by the husband.
16:02Right, if you could differentiate for us between welfare and wellness.
16:11Welfare and wellness.
16:12Yeah.
16:13They are the same thing.
16:14If you could instead differentiate between things that are synonymous to growth and development.
16:20Growth and development.
16:22True welfare means inner wellness.
16:25So they have to go together.
16:27But then there is the concept of growth.
16:30growth, which is very numerical in its outlook.
16:35That is very different from the inner thing called wellness or welfare or development.
16:41These two must be differentiated.
16:44Right.
16:44Would you say that a solution to pollution can be found in the Gita?
16:49See, pollution is a symptom, not a problem.
16:53Man has...
16:574 billion years ago life started on this planet.
17:01Did we ever have the problem of pollution?
17:04At least man-made pollution?
17:05No, never.
17:06We had massive beings here.
17:08Dinosaurs and all.
17:10But we never had massive pollution.
17:12We have different problems today than what we had back then.
17:15We had poverty and many other problems.
17:18Illiteracy amongst others.
17:19Today our problems are different, for sure.
17:21See, the problems that we had back then, the problems that we have today, they are all
17:28really coming from the same source.
17:30They are coming from ignorance.
17:31You pointed at illiteracy.
17:33We are still inwardly illiterate.
17:36Just that then we didn't know about how the suns and the moons operate, whether the earth is flat or not.
17:42Where do the oceans end?
17:45Where do storms come from?
17:47We didn't know all those things.
17:49Today we know all those things.
17:50But inwardly, we do not know.
17:52Do we know where the emotional storm comes from today?
17:56We might know where a particular cyclone is coming from and through the satellites.
18:01We can very cleverly predict it also.
18:03You've spoken about the internal storm.
18:05That's greed.
18:06How do you encourage companies and corporates to be more responsible, environmentally?
18:12Not just greed.
18:14Everything internally is a storm that carries us away.
18:18It is greed.
18:19It is fear.
18:20It is also what you call as love.
18:22It is lust.
18:23It is anger.
18:24Everything is a storm.
18:25A storm, by definition, is something you can't really withstand.
18:29Otherwise, it is a gentle breeze.
18:31Inwardly, we have so many storms and we do not know a thing about where they are coming from.
18:35You are talking about corporate greed.
18:37Even the corporations do not know why they must earn so much.
18:42Even they have been indoctrinated into thinking that if you are running an organization, a firm,
18:49then the only justification for its success is the bottom line.
18:53Even they do not know.
18:54Nobody knows anything.
18:56But we behave as if we are clear in our objectives and we rush full steam ahead.
19:03That's the problem.
19:04Inward literacy is needed.
19:07And that's where the Bhagavad Gita comes in.
19:09Wisdom literature comes in.
19:11The Upanishads come in.
19:12Philosophies and Darshans come in.
19:14Vedant comes in.
19:15You speak about the animal within.
19:17You talk about the animal inside.
19:19How can one help alleviate our consciousness towards our surroundings?
19:24Towards leaving behind a healthier planet for the next generation?
19:30It's not so much about the next generation.
19:32It's about, first of all, what I am doing to myself.
19:35You know, if I am not alright with myself, how can I do any good to any generation after me?
19:41The animal within.
19:42How, what to do with it.
19:44Know that there is an animal within.
19:47Acknowledge it.
19:48We talk, we behave as if there is some great divinity within.
19:53We were talking of the storm.
19:56When the storm rages, do we hear dogs barking?
20:01We don't.
20:02Instead, we call it as some divine love or something sacred that needs to be executed.
20:12Or at least something that deserves our backing.
20:16We don't see that it's just the ancient animals clamoring within.
20:20So the animal has to be seen for an animal.
20:24That's possible only when you can very neutrally, impartially observe your thoughts, emotions, actions
20:32and see that they all have an animalistic basis.
20:37The instincts that you have, the motives you have, they are all so similar to what even the street dog has.
20:44What even your cat has.
20:47What the apes and the chimpanzees have.
20:50Fundamentally, all that we want is not just similar, but same as everything that the animals want.
20:58And when you can see that animal, you somehow transcend that animal.
21:03Right.
21:04You know, when we talk about what is it that one can do in order to contribute towards healing the planet.
21:12Everyone says, you know, this has nothing to do with me.
21:15It's probably got to do with the corporates.
21:16It's probably got to do with the government.
21:17And they need to be the ones taking the action and not us.
21:21In your opinion, what is it, the little, little changes that one can make?
21:24You've spoken about how a 10% of the population can really bring about the change.
21:29You see, a fundamental thing.
21:32If you are the one suffering, then you must be the one responsible for healing your suffering.
21:40The governments can be blamed, the corporations can be blamed, the rich ones can be blamed.
21:48But who is the one suffering?
21:50The fact is, the ones who are the most responsible for emissions will be suffering the least.
21:58The common man will be suffering the most, even if he is not really responsible so much for the emissions.
22:07So if I am the one suffering, then the responsibility is on me to take corrective action.
22:14And I have to do whatever I can.
22:16For example, I am doing whatever I can.
22:18You must do whatever you can.
22:19In your book, you've spoken about spirituality is where the answer lies, the solution lies.
22:25Yes, because we are thinking of technological and political solutions.
22:30We are saying that we must have more fuel efficient vehicles and we must have greener and cleaner technologies,
22:37which is all very good and very welcome.
22:40But that will never take care of the root cause.
22:43Because even if you reduce, for example, an EV, if it is being fueled with clean energy,
22:54that's the best case scenario.
22:57Even then it reduces emissions over its entire lifetime, which includes its manufacturing as well as disposal.
23:05Maximum, it reduces emissions by 40 to 50 percent.
23:08And if you are fueling the EV with unclean energy, as we have in India, coal-fired plants,
23:15then an EV over its entire life cycle reduces emissions only by around 20 percent.
23:21Now, if I am inwardly greedy and accumulative and jealous,
23:27instead of having one fossil fuel car, a gasoline or a diesel car,
23:33by way of being one up on my neighbor, I'll have two EVs, right?
23:41The footprint of the diesel vehicle was 1.0.
23:45The footprint of the EV is 0.7.
23:48But if I have two EVs, that amounts to 1.4.
23:51How is that technological solution of any help?
23:54When I was in the campus, this campus, IIT,
23:59there were not as many flyovers as we have today.
24:02Ring Road, Outer Ring Road.
24:04And if I had to go to Gathebaad or Noida,
24:07it used to take me an hour or something to reach that place.
24:13Today, the roads are far wider.
24:16It's been 30 years now.
24:18The roads are wider.
24:20We have just so many flyovers.
24:22We also have the metro.
24:23But the traffic is worse.
24:25But it takes me more time to reach Noida or Gaziabad from here, right?
24:31Technological solutions don't work.
24:33If the insides have not been provided a solution,
24:37if the population goes on increasing,
24:40if everybody keeps on thinking that happiness is the goal of human life
24:45and happiness is obtained by consuming more and more,
24:48there is no way a tech or political solution is going to work.
24:51And therefore, I say, addressing the heart of the human being
24:56is the only way to deal with climate change.
24:59This crisis has no other solution.
25:02Right.
25:02So, sustainable living requires spirituality.
25:05Is that what you're saying?
25:06And the consciousness of one has to be at a level where you are aware of your surroundings?
25:10See, in spirituality, we do not even talk of sustainable living.
25:16Once you understand who you are and what you must do,
25:20you have all the freedom to do whatever you want to do.
25:23And it will be sustainable.
25:26It will be sustainable.
25:27Thank you so much for helping us know a little bit more about pollution,
25:39climate change, and of course, traffic being one of the biggest problems
25:45and the biggest contributor to pollution and therefore climate change.
25:48Welcome.
25:49Welcome.
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