- 4 months ago
From disrupting traditional newsrooms to shaping future narratives, AI and Gen Z are redefining how media works. This year's AWANI AI Roundtable explores how journalism can adapt, innovate, and thrive in this era of technological and generational change.
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00:00First of all, I'm not sure whether this is the session where everyone has regained their energy.
00:19I think it's quite to the contrary, because we got the more difficult shift, which is after lunch,
00:24the infamous after lunch session. So we have made this session very relaxed.
00:30Very open. So you guys have gone through a panel discussion, et cetera, earlier today.
00:34So part of the Awani AI roundtable is this, which is the actual roundtable.
00:40So as you can see, there are no set speakers, there are no set itineraries.
00:44We open the floor to everyone, because we've gathered everyone from across different fields,
00:48because we want to hear from everyone. In fact, my goal is to speak as little as possible,
00:52because it's not about me.
00:55But we do have rough topics which are in line with what was discussed earlier today or throughout today.
01:02And for this roundtable, we want to focus on AI, journalism, and Gen Z.
01:08So a world in flux now is what we call it, journalism, AI, and Gen Z's role in reimagining media.
01:13We have political instability, we have polarisation, we have misinformation, all this is creating chaos.
01:18AI is actually exacerbating some of this and throw into the mixed Gen Z as the largest emerging news audience
01:26and digital native storytellers.
01:28They have a unique role in reshaping newsroom workflows, storytelling approaches, as well as engagement models.
01:34So we want to hear from everyone today as to how, not just how AI is transforming journalism,
01:39but how can we use or maximise AI to fit to a new audience in the new world.
01:46So it's basically open concept, but I want to call upon maybe one or two individuals here who are regulars
01:51to kind of get the ball rolling, because I've been told that sometimes Gen Z, especially after lunch,
01:55they're a bit sleepy, so maybe they don't want to speak first, they want someone else to speak first.
02:02So can I just call upon Prof. Zaharom? Prof. Zaharom, we'll start with you, of course, you're the godfather.
02:08The godfather of AI in Malaysia.
02:13So Prof, we've often talked about how AI is transforming journalism, right?
02:17But now throwing in Gen Z into the mix, their content consumption patterns, their preferences, etc.,
02:25how has throwing that into the balance or throwing that into the equation spiced things up?
02:32Prof. Zaharom, I really don't know, actually, because there's been no studies on Gen Z in that sense.
02:37As far as journalism is concerned and AI, the studies that we've been doing with Reuters,
02:43I do the Malaysian study, indicates that many people are, many audiences are essentially not reading,
02:52not reading the news, as it were, right?
02:56Prof. Zaharom, they're looking for other avenues, if at all.
03:00There's news avoidance. That's the term that's being used now, right?
03:03So either they're totally pissed off with the news, and this is not just Malaysia, but other countries as well.
03:11So that's the situation right now.
03:14And, you know, of course, newspapers and all, they're facing tremendous problems, right?
03:18In terms of the economics of it all, circulations are down, and therefore, there is that major problem there.
03:27Now, as far as, can I just say, based on the conversations we had this morning, and me being a spoiler,
03:34there seems to be a kind of guarded, if not wild optimism for the potential of AI in academia as well.
03:44I mean, I heard a few academics here.
03:47And I've been in the business for many, many, many, many decades now.
03:53I remember coming back in the 80s, and one of the main first papers that I presented was a critique of the communications curriculum in Malaysia in many universities.
04:03the emphasis on skills, so-called skills, taught by unskilled lecturers, many of whom in USM where I was, had no experience whatsoever in the media, right?
04:17So, and I have listened to some of the comments today with academia.
04:23It seemed to be like I was going back to the 1980s, yeah?
04:26There is this almost an obsession with the potential of AI there, right?
04:33I think it's very dangerous when we think in those kind of sense.
04:37And when we talk about, you know, a 200-page dissertation to be cut down to seven seconds, for example, right?
04:45There are a lot of things in this world that you cannot explain in seven seconds.
04:49The problems in this world, how do you explain poverty?
04:51How do you explain inequality in the context of Malaysia?
04:54How do you explain race relations, for example, right?
04:57And the links with, for example, RM13, Rancangan Malaysia ke-13, right?
05:03Those are issues that are outside the so-called media realm, as it were, right?
05:08Journalism, as it were, in terms of what is being taught.
05:12But I think this wider social problems has to be at the core of any sort of curriculum,
05:18especially curriculum on journalism, because a curriculum on journalism is about knowing more about the world
05:25and trying to essentially educate people around the world, including, especially Gen Z, right?
05:32Who many feel are not bothering to look at that.
05:35But once you start looking away from all that, escaping, as it were, right?
05:42Then the real problems that we face will not be addressed, let alone resolve.
05:50And I think journalists play a crucial role as far as trying to make the world understand what problems there are there.
06:01And we are not a country that doesn't have problems.
06:04We are a country that has problems.
06:05The world has problems now, right?
06:07How do you explain Trump, for example, and the rise of Trump, and the impact of Trump on the rest of the world, right?
06:13So these are things you cannot just ignore, right?
06:17Fine, I love to, you know, like my children love perhaps K-pop.
06:21Do they love K-pop?
06:23K-pop, you love this.
06:25My kids love that.
06:27It's ridiculous.
06:28Yeah, but there is something else that they must go into, right?
06:32And it's not about, I think the question shouldn't be, for an academic, shouldn't be, what can we do for the industry, right?
06:39I think the question should be, how can we improve industry and improve society at the same time, right?
06:46I think it's crucial as academics.
06:48That's my kind of pedagogic ideology, is it?
06:53Philosophy.
06:54I come from the old school being a boomer, like I said, right?
06:56So certain things you just cannot, you know, cut down into 41, what was it, 141 stuff.
07:09You just cannot.
07:10I mean, if you look at the history of the death of the documentary in the U.S., for example, that's precisely what happened, right?
07:19And because of that, I think we lost quite a lot of things, yeah?
07:23The world lost a lot of things when documentaries that look deeper into issues are cut down into magazine formats, yeah?
07:32Or even quick news bites.
07:35So, anyway, that's my kind of spiel, and I think I better stop there.
07:38Okay, thanks.
07:39I personally love documentaries.
07:41I just watch so many documentaries on YouTube, but I think that shows who I am,
07:47because I think not to toot our own horn, but people our age, our generation, we're like kind of in the middle.
07:53We are the only generation that lives or lived before the Internet and after the Internet, before social media, after social media.
08:00So we're kind of in the middle.
08:02So we have a very unique perspective pre- and post-Internet, pre- and post-AI, how life was and how life now is.
08:09I mean, those days, whenever we want to connect to the Internet, it's 56K dialed up, right?
08:15So that's very interesting.
08:17But I would like to carry that forward, what Prof. Zaharum said about shorter attention spans,
08:23which present now challenges for news makers to tell the whole story comprehensively and fairly.
08:29Can I just have a quick show of hands?
08:31Who's Gen Z here?
08:32Okay, can I get from one of you a response?
08:39Because we keep telling ourselves here in the newsroom that, okay, we have to adapt to the audience outside.
08:44Gen Zs now, they like compact content, they have shorter attention spans, which is not necessarily a critique, though,
08:50which is not necessarily a bad thing, but that's just how the world is changing.
08:53But at the same time, you rationalize that with what Prof. Zaharum said.
08:56How can you explain poverty in seven seconds?
08:59How can you explain even Gaza in seven seconds?
09:02And at the same time, you young people have short attention spans, and that's what you demand.
09:07So how do you rationalize both of that?
09:09Anyone from Gen Z can answer?
09:11Yeah, yeah, we have a representative already.
09:14Go ahead, representative.
09:18Could you repeat the question in one sentence?
09:20Short attention spans.
09:21Hold on, I'm getting ChatGPT to summarize my question.
09:32How do you rationalize two things?
09:34One, Gen Zs have short attention spans.
09:36And two, you can't tell each and every story, news story, fairly in seven seconds.
09:44So, for me, there's two extremes, actually.
09:48I do enjoy my short content a lot.
09:50Funny, because I don't have TikTok.
09:53I did not install TikTok at all.
09:55I only have Instagram and YouTube.
09:57So, I have on this one side my short content.
10:00And on one side, I have my two-hour documentaries, my ARGs, my lores, deep dives into rabbit holes.
10:07The 3 a.m. deep dive into Wikipedia is real.
10:11Nothing good happens after 3 a.m., but for me, it's always Wikipedia.
10:15So, how I rationalize this is Gen Zers, we are really passionate about stuff.
10:22And I feel like that's why we have shorter attention spans as well.
10:26When we are passionate about something, we dive deep into it.
10:29We dive so deep into it.
10:31There's a sense of obsession with a sort of, like, topic that we are interested in.
10:35So, in terms of journalistic content, there's, we have to look at what topics they are passionate about.
10:44And we have to adapt to basically what they want to see.
10:48And sometimes at the forefront, we have to bring up topics that are really important as well,
10:53as well as, like, the war that is happening around the world as well.
10:58And how society is adapting to AI in terms of journalistic content.
11:02And I feel like in newsrooms, when AI gets brought in, there's a sort of sense of, like, there's deep fakes.
11:08And there's a lot of generated content that we can't really verify, whether it's real or not.
11:14So, as journalists on the front lines, we have the sense of responsibility to make sure that the content we put out is verified and we see where the source is.
11:25So, as a Gen Zer, I feel like we, you say that you're the middle bridge, but I feel like we're kind of the middle, in the middle as well.
11:34Because there's the upcoming generation, Generation Alpha, which is much, much more proficient in AI.
11:41They were brought up on tablets.
11:42We have iPads, we have iPad kids.
11:44And there's much more brain rock content that they are used to, in a way.
11:50And they have less critical thinking compared to Gen Zers, who maybe potentially experienced the era before AI was here.
12:03Because for our generation, I think AI was pretty prevalent in the COVID and pandemic era,
12:08where we were going through SPM or higher tier education.
12:13We were progressing.
12:14So, AI really came during our tiered education.
12:17Thanks.
12:20That's an interesting point.
12:21I would like to go to Dr. Shazana, UITM, Melaka, because I was just having a chat with her before we started.
12:27And what she said was exactly the same as you.
12:30She said that the problem now with AI is that students are becoming lazy.
12:33And I just saw maybe a few weeks ago, there was a study, I can't remember the details of it,
12:38but it had a graph of since 2022 when ChatGPT burst into the scene,
12:43how it has deteriorated people's brains, literally, because we outsource our thinking now to ChatGPT.
12:51We just don't think anymore.
12:52And I'm sometimes guilty of doing that myself.
12:54So, Doctor, can you just lend your experience as to how AI has made people lazy and just not thinking?
13:02Okay.
13:03Actually, not only you are a student, I think.
13:06All students, MISTI Melayor, Uni 10, and all students, actually, nowadays, our new generation, actually,
13:13very, very different with our time before this, right?
13:17So, any assignment, anything that we give to them, in five minutes, they will use ChatGPT.
13:26Actually, we can see that this is from ChatGPT because they forgot to delete from ChatGPT.
13:35We can detect this is from ChatGPT.
13:38So, actually, what we can say, because we as academicians also, we use ChatGPT,
13:48but we use in our, what we call, the function we use if we go to our bank workshop,
14:00that they train us, if we want to do this one, this one, this one, like this.
14:06Not only just you put or you give ChatGPT, I want this one, this one, this one, and then the answer,
14:13then you just use it.
14:15Actually, have a lot of step.
14:18You want to use ChatGPT that it will more help you, actually, and we protect your data, actually.
14:26So, our student, actually, we don't call them lazy, okay, but they use because of the, this one, easy.
14:39But we as a lecturer, academician, what's next, if like this, okay?
14:47Let's, let's one, they become a minister if related to something about the economy or what.
14:58So, how, how?
15:00If then, we will, they use, oh, this one, this one, how to do this one, this one with the economy.
15:08So, we don't want like that, okay?
15:11So, that's why the future of AI, the future of ChatGPT, what can make the student after this, the future,
15:26how they can think without ChatGPT itself, can?
15:30That's interesting.
15:30I'll relate that to journalism in just a few seconds, but I just want to share one point.
15:34During my time in university, the problem was Wikipedia.
15:40And lecturers at that time really were not satisfied with the fact that we use Wikipedia.
15:47But we students protested and said, how is that different from you guys back in your day using books?
15:55You used to go to library, you cite books in your paper or thesis or whatever it is, or assignment,
16:00and now we can do it much quicker, much, much more easily, as long as you cross-check the sources, etc.
16:08So, now the next round is ChatGPT.
16:10So, people like us are complaining, including me, saying that, okay, now there's an even faster way of getting information,
16:17but if I want to totally be against it, even if I'm a lecturer,
16:21I have to remember that back in the day, I also used the internet, I also used Wikipedia.
16:26So, this is like the new version of Wikipedia.
16:28So, can I just get someone, maybe from the academic community, your thoughts on this?
16:35How far can you use ChatGPT?
16:38And do you think it will deteriorate critical thinking?
16:41Because this is what we've been saying since 15 years ago, since I was using Wikipedia.
16:48Can I have a seat?
16:52Hi, dear.
16:53My name is Lina.
16:54I'm also from academic perspective.
16:58I was actually from ITM, then USM, and now I'm UM, from the digital perspective on digital marketing site,
17:08which I taught in that subject.
17:11Perhaps I can just give a note that we actually use ChatGPT.
17:16What we use is the flip classroom.
17:19We challenge, I think the niche area here is to prompt, how you prompt.
17:27Those days, back in my generation with Prof. Rome, was my lecturer, back in USM.
17:35Prof, I got grade B tau.
17:39Tachi tau.
17:40B, baik.
17:46Kalau B plus or A minus, lagi baik.
17:49Okay, just selingan.
17:51Okay, back to the prom.
17:53Those days, during my time, we went to a library.
17:58This prom is just similar to indexing.
18:01When back in the library time, when we search,
18:03I bet if you talk to our young generation, Gen Z,
18:07you might not know about indexing.
18:10Back in the library, we searched the keywords.
18:12But now the keywords is like Google search.
18:15You search keywords.
18:16And then back to ChatGPT, I think now we challenge how you prompt.
18:22Just not as simple as what summarized in 144 characters of the abstract, blah, blah, blah, from your thesis.
18:31But actually, how you deep dive on giving a prompt, a proper prompt.
18:38Let's say for a rubric for digital marketing, I have 100%, but how do you prompt it?
18:46You know, particularly on, I want 20% for a presentation.
18:51I want 20% on the content.
18:5310%, 20% on the format, formatting, and grammatically, and then after that, what?
18:59That will concise.
19:01And then I think now the challenge here, people want to keep simple.
19:05Right?
19:05So to answer your questions, is prom is a big challenge now.
19:10Even though that you are from the baby boomers or from the 50s or Gen X or Y,
19:18you don't know how to prompt.
19:20So this is what we've been teaching the digital marketer, how to prompt correctly.
19:25Rather than just keep simplified the things and ChatGPT would not deep dive
19:31and giving you the proper answer.
19:34I think Prof. Yunusov on the AI perspective on how do you do HTML and whatnot,
19:39I think she's more on that data coding, right?
19:42So yeah, I think I let the floor rule on this matter.
19:46Yeah.
19:48So I was reading this article from two researchers from Princeton.
19:57I think they wrote a book called AI and Snake Oil or something like that.
20:01And the article was talking about AI and science.
20:05Will AI progress, allow for progress in science, or will it pull us back?
20:13Right?
20:13It's a very long one.
20:14I really encourage you guys to look at it.
20:17It talks about this thing called the production progress paradox,
20:21which is the more you produce, actually progress actually slows down.
20:26And it was talking about how maybe AI can forward,
20:30can make individual researchers more productive,
20:33but science as a field actually slows down.
20:37Why?
20:37Because there's just too much information for people to actually digest.
20:43And because of how we cite papers, those papers that get cited the most,
20:50actually are, you know, there's a power curve basically, right?
20:54So researchers are more taking less risks, so having less breakthroughs in science.
21:01So why am I saying all of this?
21:03Inside of the article, there's one point that stood out to me,
21:07which is what is the point of science, right, when it comes to it?
21:11The point of science really is to forward human understanding in whatever field it is.
21:16So I think our conversation needs to have this nuance.
21:20So it's not like, is AI good, is AI bad?
21:23Likely, it's like what our Gen Z friend there says.
21:26There's two sides to the story.
21:28There's like nuance in between.
21:29Sometimes I prefer short form.
21:31Sometimes I prefer long form, right?
21:33So there's a lot of nuance on whether AI can help us with our understanding of how the world works,
21:41or it will impede our understanding of how the world works.
21:45So I think that if we can focus on this part on understanding,
21:51we'll get a little bit more insight towards this conversation on how AI is affecting the education
21:58and research and science for the younger people.
22:01So it really depends on how they use it.
22:04Yeah, so read the article is what I'm saying.
22:07Thanks.
22:08Thanks, Dr. Prof.
22:09All right.
22:10So, yeah, I think I will just take the input here and there a little bit.
22:15So let's start with a short attention span.
22:18So this is not just for Gen Z, I think even for probably everyone,
22:22because of the massive amount of information that we're now having,
22:26and there's so little capacity that our brain can handle at a time.
22:30Okay, it used to be, I happen to know a little bit about how the brain works.
22:34So we used to be able to keep between 5 to 7, 9 information at a time.
22:41Back in the 50s, this was the discovery.
22:43And now it has dropped to 4, which translates to our ability to pay attention is about 8 seconds now,
22:50which is less than goldfish, which is about 12 seconds.
22:53So it is a little bit controversial.
22:56Of course, you can say that, well, not quite,
22:58because if you're interested in a specific piece of information or video,
23:03then of course you can pay longer attention, true enough.
23:06So I think this is where we come in and play around with our human capability,
23:11how much we can cope, you know, consistent with our interests,
23:15and the kinds of information that we want to kind of like direct people to gain.
23:22So in the context of journalism, what I can think,
23:25and of course, like what Dina is saying is prompt engineering is so critical.
23:30It's not just for technical people.
23:33It's not just for people who are developing algorithms or products or services
23:38that need to know prompt engineering very well.
23:41In fact, I would argue that it is a necessity skills these days
23:45because almost everyone, this is the go-to way of looking for information.
23:51So I think this is a mindset that we need to cultivate from a very young age
23:57in terms of how do you look for information
24:00and information that is kind of like validated,
24:04but you know, something that is reliable enough
24:07and to do prompt engineering in such a way that it is actually positive for one's development.
24:13So it's not just using, you know, the input to get an output, simply just an output,
24:19but it is an output that matters to our development
24:23in terms of how we develop our critical thinking.
24:26So coming, if I can relate to how, you know,
24:29we're trying to divert from traditional way of teaching and learning,
24:33I think one of the ways can be instead of getting an output from the students,
24:39one way is to get them to explain how they reach to the output.
24:44So it's more like the process of developing the problem-solving skills
24:50rather than, right, this is the input, this is my end product,
24:53my thesis, my, you know, article, whatever it is.
24:57Because I feel that, we were talking during the break,
25:01one of the key skills in developing our communication skills
25:06or what do you call that, soft skills in general is being able to adapt.
25:13So this is one thing that I feel is missing these days
25:16in maybe somewhere along the pipeline of teaching and learning from a very young age
25:21because of our current education system, which needs to change, of course.
25:26Because it's very hard to get an adult to start thinking about how to adapt.
25:32Of course, it's easier, but if it's a learning strategy
25:36that we cultivate from a young age, it is a lot easier for you,
25:40regardless of, of course, our curriculum will change.
25:43What we teach now, the impact, the students will graduate four years from now.
25:47And the question is, is it valid to, you know, for them to use the skills that they learn now
25:54because it's four years' time, definitely there will be a new technology, right?
25:58So the question is, can we mold them in such a way that they have an ability
26:05to keep on changing themselves, adapting, like, okay, this is a new problem,
26:10I've never seen this problem, but I have some skills to kind of like investigate
26:15how this problem looks based on my, you know, similar experience or something like that.
26:20And this is something that will eventually lead them to being somebody who can, again,
26:25relating to what I think we talk about is being able to innovate, right?
26:30So it's all relating to the end product, which is eventually giving the current users
26:37short, kind of like information in a short amount of duration,
26:43but again, being accessible to longer piece of information in other forms of format.
26:49Thank you, Prof. I think you nailed it on the head.
26:51Because I think the concern is not about how AI will change things
26:55or how we should use, best use AI, but the question, or the concern rather,
27:00is whether AI is indeed resulting or will exacerbate a problem of short attention spans,
27:06will deteriorate our brains, and will eventually just make the human race less competent
27:11because we are too dependent on technology.
27:13I think that's a bigger picture here.
27:14This is part one of the Awani AI Roundtable.
27:19Part two will air next week on It's About Youth.
27:22This is an edited version of the Roundtable.
27:24Responses have been abridged for broadcast purposes.
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