00:00And do you think the Trump administration is using this case as a deterrent, saying anyone trying to come to America, don't come here because you could get sent somewhere else completely?
00:13Do you think that there's an element of deterrence, attempted deterrence at play, but that's not really on their mind right now, deterring.
00:21They might be actually hoping that more people self-deport.
00:24And I can tell you that that is happening.
00:26People I talk to every day, good, hardworking immigrants who don't have criminal history, who we need here in this economy, are choosing to leave because they don't want to live like this.
00:36They don't want to live under siege.
00:38And I can tell you, I've talked to so many people who come from authoritarian regimes in their home countries, and they've watched this pattern play out before.
00:47And they see it happening here in the United States.
00:50And these people say to me, I'm not going to stay here and watch it in the United States either, and I'm not going to be under siege like this, and I'm leaving.
00:55And we're starting to see the results of that in our economy.
01:00And hopefully it'll become so clear to everybody by the time the midterms happen that a lot of this behavior by the Trump administration will get stopped in its tracks.
01:09And I think with politics, a lot of the time, immigration is painted in a black and white issue, and that's really not the case.
01:15There's so much gray area when it comes to immigration.
01:18This was a top issue facing voters in 2024.
01:22As someone who is an immigration attorney, who represents these cases, who has these conversations, what do you think is missing really from the national dialogue when it comes to immigration?
01:31I think that the missing piece began actually during the Biden administration.
01:38During the Biden administration, the conservative side was so loud.
01:42It was such a loud and regular drumbeat, claiming that immigrants were invading, that they were trafficking children, they were trafficking drugs, they were raping girls.
01:54You know, just that rhetoric was so routine and regular.
01:58And the Biden administration and Democrats, frankly, didn't really talk as loudly about the reality of what was going on the border.
02:06We didn't have open border.
02:08Immigrants are great for this country.
02:09All of those talking points went by the wayside.
02:13And so here we are living in this world where a bunch of people have begun to believe the lies and the anti-immigrant rhetoric that Trump displays, and now we're in a situation of imbalance.
02:25But what can help is cases like Kilmars, other cases that reach the media, viral videos that go out, and people start to see, wait a minute, good people are being impacted by this.
02:37People I love.
02:38Families are being separated.
02:39Construction is down in my area.
02:41It's hard to find landscapers.
02:43You know, my schools are closing down.
02:45I'm starting to see that maybe this is all wrong.
02:50You know, and I think that we're starting to see that shift a little bit in the polls and where we're seeing the Trump administration and his approval rating because they've gone so hard and so aggressive against immigrants that, you know, it's obvious.
03:04Unless, you know, you're just not paying attention whatsoever, you can see that this is not actually helping our country, even if you're unmoved by the humanitarian angle.
03:13Kate, I appreciate your update on this case.
03:16And as we see more developments come out, I hope you can come back on and break them down with me.
03:21Kate Lincoln-Goldfinch, thank you so much for joining me.
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