- 4 months ago
- #considerthis
Malaysia's rental market has often been criticised for lacking proper regulation, relying instead on tenancy agreements and contract law. And despite years of deliberation, we still do not have much clarity on the proposed Residential Tenancy Act. So what would it take for this legislation to strike the right balance between tenant protections and landlord rights? On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with social policy & human rights specialist Simraatraj Kaur Dhillon, and Muhammad Nazhan Kamaruzuki, Research Associate at Khazanah Research Institute.
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00:00Music
00:00Hello and good evening, I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This.
00:14This is the show where we want you to consider and then reconsider what you know of the news of the day.
00:20Malaysia's rental market has often been criticised for lacking proper regulation,
00:25relying instead on tenancy agreements and contract law.
00:28And despite years of deliberation, we still do not have much clarity on the proposed Residential Tenancy Act.
00:36So what would it take to make this proposed legislation strike the right balance between tenant protections and landlord rights?
00:45Joining me on the show today to discuss this further, I have Social Policy and Human Rights Specialist Simrit Kaur Dilan,
00:52as well as Mohamed Nazhan Kamaruzuki.
00:54He is the Research Associate at Kazana Research Institute and he recently was the lead author of the opinion piece
01:02towards a secure and fully functioning housing rental sector.
01:07Thank you both for being on the show with me today.
01:09It's good of you to be here in the studio to talk about this.
01:13I remember talking about the need for a Residential Tenancy Act for years now
01:18and it seems to be in the making but not quite materialised yet.
01:23Simrit, if I may be giving it to you.
01:24What do you think this means for Malaysia?
01:28The fact that we don't have an RTA, Residential Tenancy Act,
01:33what does that mean for tenants and landlords alike?
01:36Maybe you can lay out the scene for us.
01:38Thank you, Melissa, for having us.
01:40Thank you for the question.
01:41I think what it means is that there is a huge rental market that goes unregulated.
01:48For tenants, this means that processes to apply for rental properties,
01:54there is no streamline when it comes to that.
01:57So this is where most of the discrimination happens on behalf of the tenants.
02:02And then on behalf of the landlords, this sort of gives them the right to then discriminate
02:08against tenants that come from certain minority groups, right?
02:15So because there is a lack of legislation in this area,
02:21this huge problem of unregulation where certain groups of individuals
02:25are treated differently compared to others is very, very rampant.
02:30Right, okay.
02:31I want to come back to the issue of discrimination.
02:34I know you feel very passionate about that and you've studied that,
02:37researched that quite a bit.
02:39But Nazan, talk to me a little bit about the lay of the land.
02:43When you look at the current state of Malaysia's rental market,
02:46in terms of protection and regulation,
02:49what stands out most to you in terms of the challenges or issues
02:54that are faced by both tenants and landlords?
02:56So thank you for having me today.
02:59So yes, as you rightly mentioned,
03:01at the moment we do not have a single reference point like a set of legislation
03:08or statute that can serve not only to serve,
03:12to solve contractual disputes like your tenancy agreements,
03:17who will take care of the deposit, that's kind of details,
03:21but also to uphold and lay down the bigger humanizing housing agenda,
03:28which is mentioned and which is quite significant at this moment
03:32because we are, Malaysian, is elected as the president for UN Habitat Assembly.
03:39And what does it mean?
03:40What does UN Habitat say about housing?
03:44I don't remember, so I'm going to read this.
03:46Okay, sure.
03:46Everyone has a fundamental human right to housing,
03:50which ensures access to a safe, secure, habitable and affordable and longer ones.
03:56Housing is more than just a roof.
03:59It's an opportunity for better life and better future.
04:03So there are quite big dreams and we have why we need this Residential Tenancy Act,
04:11not just to solve the contractual disputes like you mentioned,
04:14who's going to take care of what's kind of the process,
04:16but also to really uphold this and operate these big dreams.
04:21So back to the questions.
04:24Well, actually, before we get into that, may I just get you to elaborate on that?
04:27I'm so glad you brought that up because let's zoom out a bit
04:30and look at our macro approach,
04:34our Malaysian's approach to housing policy and the rental sector.
04:40I have my observations personally.
04:43I just think that Malaysia's approach in a sense is that
04:46Malaysia treats renting as unworthy of serious concern.
04:51It is seen as a phase that young people go through.
04:54It is seen to be almost a consequence.
04:57If you don't work hard enough to own,
04:59you'll then have to rent.
05:01Whereas we forget the kind of social justice dimension of it.
05:05It is the most vulnerable of our society, right?
05:08The migrant workers, the single moms, the low-income households
05:11that will have to resort to renting.
05:13Talk to me a little bit about that,
05:14how you kind of broadly look at Malaysia's housing sector
05:18and in this humanizing housing agenda, what that means.
05:21So, we have to know as a nation gets more urbanized,
05:27there will be more population that are renting.
05:30They move to bigger cities like KL, Petaling,
05:34all these urbanized districts have higher percentage of people
05:37household renting compared to the other districts in the same state
05:43or compared to the national average itself.
05:46For example, Malaysia in 2022,
05:52renting population is about 20%
05:54but KL is 30, 30-something, 37.
05:59Same goes for Petaling, same goes for Johor Bahru.
06:03So, as we get more urbanized, more economic activities,
06:06more economic growth,
06:07we should expect this renting population more significant
06:11and we should not neglect them.
06:14And coming to back your Malaysia housing policy,
06:18so, well, yes, it has been very centric to home ownership
06:22either to promote home owning or to own a house.
06:27You have, for example, social housing which is your PPR
06:33that is to be owned versus to rent
06:37and also you have prima house for the middle income earners.
06:41You also, that's it, that's housing supply itself
06:43and then you also have government guaranteed scheme
06:48for those who want to earn but do not have formal pay sleep.
06:53So, we have been very active in promoting home ownership
06:57but we have to make sure that renting
07:00should be a sustainable way as well
07:02because, you know, there's a need for that.
07:05Yeah, as you rightly mentioned,
07:07there's a youth coming
07:08and then there's some people
07:10that just prefer renting.
07:14Yeah.
07:14It's a choice, right?
07:15It's a choice.
07:16But I have to give credits.
07:21Okay, during the Putra Hight incidents, right?
07:24Accident where the explosion happened.
07:26So, it was the first time that government
07:29really looked at the renting population
07:33whereby not just homeowners get some assistance
07:37but also the tenants who rent there
07:40who were also the victim.
07:43Unlike during COVID-19 pandemic
07:45whereby homeowners got their moratoriums
07:48to help them with financial difficulties
07:50but during this, you know, unexpected incident happen,
07:56tenants were taken into consideration
07:59in the government assistance program.
08:01Of course, we can debate about the amount,
08:03you know, it's a bit lower
08:04but at least we have moved a little bit better.
08:08At least tenants aren't invisible to the policy, right?
08:11Right, right.
08:12Simrat, do you think that renting will become
08:14a more permanent way of life for Malaysians?
08:16Is that the future you see for Malaysia's rental market?
08:21Oh, I think in the current economic state
08:25that we are in,
08:26I think it is going to be,
08:28at least projection-wise,
08:30it is going to be a reality
08:32for many Malaysians.
08:34I think not just among young people,
08:37people who are in their 20s
08:38but people who are in their 30s
08:40and in their 40s.
08:41Especially taking into consideration
08:43the unstable job market that there is,
08:46you know, home ownership is not cheap.
08:49It comes with its own set of challenges.
08:51Most people nowadays tend to buy homes
08:54when they're in their 50s,
08:55when they're in their 40s, right?
08:57And so majority of your life,
08:59renting is going to be your option.
09:02Which is why we need to have
09:04better regulation for this,
09:06particularly with discrimination.
09:08This is something that you have long felt strongly about,
09:11if I understand correctly.
09:13But mostly when you talk to people,
09:16it's always anecdotal, right?
09:18You hear of these instances.
09:22What does the data actually say?
09:23How widespread is this problem
09:26based on your research?
09:27I think, to keep it short,
09:31you know, the short answer would be
09:33it's very difficult to quantify
09:35because it is more widespread than we know.
09:38So in my research,
09:40you know, I interviewed about,
09:42there was about 30 people
09:43and every single person
09:45had experienced rental discrimination,
09:48majority of which come from the Indian community.
09:51And this 30,
09:54it just represents
09:54just a small amount of people
09:56in Clang Valley.
09:58But, you know,
09:59when you have the resources,
10:00you know, later on,
10:01when research expands
10:03and when you actually quantify it,
10:05it's definitely widespread
10:06in many states as well.
10:08And the issue with rental discrimination
10:11or racism in the rental market
10:12is that it's so subtle
10:14and it sometimes happens so overtly
10:18that it is a phenomenon
10:20that is really difficult to quantify.
10:22And that's why for my research that I did,
10:25we focused mainly on qualitative research,
10:29focusing on the stories
10:30that are happening on the ground
10:31because quantity,
10:34the number itself,
10:35cannot really,
10:37you know,
10:37it can show you a certain figure
10:38but that doesn't really talk
10:40about the realities on the ground,
10:41the complexity of the issue,
10:43how discreetly it happens sometimes.
10:46You know,
10:47it's not always flashy
10:49where there's like an advertisement
10:51that says,
10:51oh, no Malay, no Indian.
10:53Sometimes it's not like that.
10:54Sometimes, you know,
10:55when the landlord is speaking to a person,
10:57like this is from
10:58when I was interviewing my participants,
11:02when the landlord is speaking to you,
11:03from your intonation
11:05and the way you speak,
11:06they can already tell
11:07what kind of race you are from.
11:09And so sometimes the landlords
11:11just do not respond to these.
11:13to these,
11:13you know,
11:14potential tenants.
11:16Profiling.
11:16Yes.
11:17You can just tell by the name.
11:18The racial profiling.
11:19Sometimes they just ask you
11:20for your identity card,
11:21you send it to them
11:22and immediately they ghost you
11:24or they don't respond to you.
11:26If I may add to that,
11:28why we need,
11:29I'm trying to link it
11:31with racial discrimination
11:32and what's happening
11:33with why we need
11:35the Residential Tenancy Act, right?
11:36Right.
11:36So at the moment,
11:37we do not have
11:38single reference point
11:39for legal framework
11:42but we have scattered
11:43scattered rules and regulation
11:46that currently framing
11:47and governing the rental market.
11:50And these are not adequate.
11:52These acts,
11:53regulations are not adequate.
11:54For example,
11:56like you mentioned,
11:56Contract Act,
11:571950,
11:58you are allowed to make deal,
12:00business deal,
12:01agree,
12:01willing buyer,
12:02willing saya,
12:03to whomever you want.
12:04Similarly,
12:05you also are allowed
12:07to not make a deal,
12:10you know,
12:11not willing buyer,
12:12not willing seller
12:13to whomever you want.
12:14And you don't have
12:15to give any specific reason
12:17for that.
12:17So the current governing framework
12:19is allowing for this process,
12:22allowing it to happen,
12:24the whole is giving,
12:26the outcome is there.
12:27I have heard that,
12:28I mean,
12:29the most common objection
12:31to a Residential Tenancy Act
12:33is that the government
12:35should not regulate
12:36the landlord-tenant relationship
12:38because it is a matter
12:40between two consenting parties.
12:42It is a private agreement,
12:44a private contract
12:45to two parties.
12:46And I want to ask you
12:48about that
12:48because a recent survey
12:50by Architects of Diversity
12:52found that 50% of Malaysians
12:54believe landlords
12:55should be allowed
12:56to choose tenants
12:56based on race.
12:58They say that
13:00this is personal preference,
13:02this is the fundamental right
13:04of property owners
13:05to do so.
13:06How do you respond to that?
13:08I think that
13:09that is actually
13:10a very important point
13:12that needs to be tackled
13:14with head front
13:16when we are talking
13:17about Residential Tenancy Act
13:19because although
13:20it is a very important
13:21piece of legislation,
13:23I'm of the opinion
13:23that it is not
13:25the only solution
13:26to solve discrimination
13:27that happens
13:28in the rental market
13:29because we do need to,
13:32even when I was
13:33interviewing landlords
13:34for this research,
13:35we do need to really
13:36acknowledge the fact
13:37that when you buy a home,
13:40you do have certain rights
13:41that are attached to it
13:42and that includes
13:44the right to use
13:45your property
13:46in the way
13:46that you want to use.
13:47For example,
13:48if I spend,
13:49I'm not justifying racism
13:51or anything in any way,
13:52but we need to acknowledge
13:54that this is the right
13:56of a homeowner.
13:58Of a private property.
13:59Of a private property, right?
14:00So to what extent
14:02do you then want
14:04to let the government
14:05regulate and tell you
14:08how to use your property
14:09and this is where
14:10most of the pushback
14:12comes from
14:12and that is why
14:13I think we'll get
14:14into it later
14:15but which is why
14:16I don't think
14:17that the RTA itself
14:18is sufficient
14:20to govern discrimination
14:23because if,
14:24unless,
14:25of course,
14:25there are certain elements
14:26that can be included
14:27in the RTA
14:28but in itself,
14:30we need
14:31and we must
14:32take into consideration
14:33the rights
14:34of property owners.
14:36Okay, I hear you.
14:37So an RTA
14:38won't solve discrimination
14:40in the rental market
14:40but maybe becomes
14:42a point of regulation, right?
14:44Correct.
14:45Because you said
14:45there's no single reference point.
14:47How do you see that, Nazhan?
14:49Well, like I mentioned
14:50the Contract Act 1950
14:52and other commercial contracts
14:54that governing the rental sector
14:55now, you know,
14:57you are allowed
14:58to do business
14:58whoever you want
14:59and whoever you don't want.
15:01Right?
15:01Similarly,
15:03without the single reference,
15:05without a residential tenancy act,
15:07we tend to let the market
15:08be as it is.
15:09Yes.
15:09Or in the economy,
15:10they call it lesser fare.
15:12So, and what are the outcomes?
15:14Remember,
15:15what are the outcomes?
15:16Remember, we once
15:17was,
15:19it was on the news,
15:20the coffin rooms
15:21scenario, right?
15:23So,
15:24as we becoming,
15:26you know,
15:27becoming more developed nation,
15:29more progressive,
15:30your economy activities
15:32become more complex,
15:34is this,
15:35you know,
15:35coffin room,
15:36substandard living condition,
15:38are this something
15:39that we want to offer
15:40to our people?
15:41Not just our people,
15:42maybe those people
15:44outside that come
15:45to our country
15:45with hopes and everything,
15:47is,
15:47I did something
15:48like we want to offer
15:49to them,
15:50substandard kind of living,
15:52rooms with no safety
15:54precaution
15:55and no ventilation,
15:56something like that.
15:57Of course,
15:58it is,
15:59you know,
15:59market driven.
16:01It's a free market driven.
16:02But there still should be
16:03some regulation
16:04against exploitation.
16:06That was exploitative,
16:07those coffin rooms,
16:08wasn't it?
16:09Yes,
16:10exactly.
16:10So if we don't have
16:12any kind of regulations,
16:14then this would happen.
16:16Yeah,
16:17it doesn't happen to you,
16:18but I don't know,
16:19maybe our grandchildren,
16:21our children,
16:22Yes, definitely.
16:23You never know
16:24when you will become
16:25society's most vulnerable
16:27population, right?
16:28Let's talk about
16:29what we want to see
16:30in a possible RTA.
16:32Who knows when
16:32we'll see one,
16:33hopefully.
16:34It's being drafted,
16:35I hear.
16:36I hope it's being drafted.
16:37So let's talk about
16:38what we would like to see
16:39in an RTA
16:41for Malaysia.
16:43If you were to
16:44think about the priorities
16:45to address some of the problems
16:47we talked about
16:48while balancing
16:50kind of tenant
16:51and landlord rights,
16:53Simret,
16:53if I may ask you,
16:54what would
16:55you prioritize in it?
16:57I think firstly,
16:59it would be
16:59streamlining
17:00the process of applications
17:02when it comes to rental.
17:04You know,
17:04having a set of,
17:06not to say rules,
17:07but having a fixed set
17:09of requirements
17:10on what you need
17:11when a tenant approaches you.
17:12I think that's really important
17:13because that's something
17:14that I've noticed
17:15that's been very like
17:16different communities
17:18and different individuals
17:19get asked different things.
17:21May I ask,
17:22could you elaborate
17:22what do you mean by that?
17:23For example,
17:24you know,
17:25if a landlord suspects
17:26that you are from
17:28a minority community
17:29and they do not want
17:31to rent to you,
17:32sometimes they ask your IC.
17:33But for example,
17:34some of the tenants
17:35that I spoke to
17:36who are from
17:36a Chinese background,
17:38they are not asked
17:39these documents.
17:41So having a set,
17:42streamlined process
17:44of what exactly happens.
17:45And I think secondly,
17:47very strong
17:47anti-discrimination policies,
17:50holding landlords
17:51accountable
17:52for, you know,
17:54practicing the racial preferences
17:56when it comes to renting.
17:58Thirdly,
17:59the most important thing
18:01I would say
18:01is having a very efficient
18:03complaint mechanism
18:06because the first two things
18:08are not going to work
18:08if communities
18:10who are affected
18:11or individuals
18:11who are affected
18:13have no way to resort
18:15to complain these things
18:16which is what has been
18:16happening now.
18:18If I have experienced
18:19rental discrimination
18:21in the market,
18:21where do I go?
18:23Exactly.
18:24You have platforms
18:25like Property Guru
18:26who are a lot more regulated
18:27and you can complain directly,
18:29you know,
18:29too on these platforms
18:31but majority of the participants
18:33or majority of people
18:35that experience
18:36rental discrimination
18:37mostly look through websites
18:39like Facebook Marketplace
18:40or Muda,
18:43Ivy Lake,
18:44these kinds of platforms
18:45that are not really regulated
18:47don't really have
18:47strong complaint mechanisms.
18:49So establishing that
18:50is really important.
18:51Otherwise,
18:52everything is just going
18:52to fall flat.
18:53Yeah.
18:53And that's why you hear
18:54of, you know,
18:55people going to
18:56take into social media
18:57because what other avenues
18:59do they have?
19:00So what we should expect
19:03from residential tenancy,
19:05I don't want to talk
19:06about the detail process
19:07about it.
19:08I mean,
19:08that's something else
19:10but also we have
19:11to ensure that
19:12the Residential Tenancy Act
19:14has the spirit
19:14that is shared
19:16commonly with
19:17the UN habitat.
19:18And like I said,
19:19everyone has
19:20a fundamental human rights
19:21to housing
19:22which ensures
19:23access to safe,
19:24secure,
19:25habitable,
19:26and affordable.
19:27So it's beyond
19:28racial discrimination issues.
19:29Yeah.
19:30You are actually
19:30not just
19:31limiting people
19:33addressing
19:34there's no limitation
19:35to secure
19:36a proper house,
19:37a decent house
19:38but also
19:39tenants would feel
19:40belonging to that
19:41to that community.
19:43At the moment,
19:45for example,
19:46in the Strata community,
19:47by default,
19:48tenants are not,
19:50you know,
19:50do not have votes
19:51to the Strata community.
19:53They feel isolated.
19:56And I want to bring
19:58another example,
19:59our youngsters
20:00who live in
20:00a shared houses
20:03with a lot of
20:04multiple rooms,
20:04they also feel isolated,
20:06right?
20:06They don't know,
20:07they don't mingle
20:08with the community.
20:09And if you have
20:11this vision
20:12to create
20:12inclusive
20:13cities,
20:15inclusive Kuala Lumpur,
20:17Kuala Lumpur
20:18Structure Plan
20:18has this ambition.
20:19How do you connect
20:21that?
20:22How do you take
20:22our tenants,
20:23our renters' population
20:25into the process
20:26of making
20:27livable
20:28and inclusive
20:29cities?
20:30Yeah,
20:30that is such
20:30a great point.
20:31Thank you for
20:32highlighting that
20:33because
20:33we forget
20:35that renters
20:36are part of
20:36the social fabric
20:37too,
20:38belonging to
20:38a community
20:39as well
20:39and often
20:40invisible,
20:41right?
20:42No rights,
20:42not involved
20:43in community
20:44decisions.
20:46Very great point
20:48in terms of
20:49bringing renters
20:50into the conversation
20:50as well.
20:51And as you mentioned
20:52with urbanization,
20:53it will grow.
20:54Renting will become,
20:56will grow.
20:57If we do come
20:58to the point
20:59where we're
21:00seeing a
21:00residential
21:02tenancy bill
21:03tabled,
21:04and hopefully
21:05we'll see that soon,
21:06can I ask
21:07both of you
21:08from your research
21:09and your observations
21:10what your concerns
21:12are in terms
21:13of the
21:14implementation
21:15of such
21:16legislation?
21:16Where do you
21:17anticipate
21:18pushback
21:19coming from
21:20and
21:21are the biggest
21:23obstacles
21:24political,
21:25are they
21:26economic,
21:27are they
21:27bureaucratic?
21:28What do you
21:29both think?
21:30I think
21:31there could
21:32be,
21:33you know,
21:33I think
21:34the main
21:34pushback
21:35could be
21:36economic as well
21:37in terms of
21:39we don't
21:40want to
21:40disrupt
21:41the renter's
21:42market in a
21:43way and
21:43scare landlords
21:44away from
21:45trying to
21:45rent because
21:46it is a
21:47market on
21:47its own
21:48that sustains
21:48the economy.
21:50So I think
21:50the pushback
21:51could come
21:51in that way
21:52and something
21:54that is really
21:57that needs to
21:57be taken into
21:58consideration is
21:59how do you
21:59balance between
22:01protecting tenants
22:03as well as
22:04ensuring private
22:05property rights?
22:06How much
22:07is the act
22:07going to
22:08encroach
22:09your private
22:10property rights
22:10because that
22:11is a huge
22:12debate,
22:13that's a huge
22:14argument and
22:16I foresee
22:16there going to
22:17be a pushback
22:18as well and
22:19in terms of
22:19implementation I
22:20think,
22:21you know,
22:22again,
22:23like we were
22:24talking about
22:25this earlier,
22:26how discrimination
22:27can be so
22:28overt,
22:28it can be so
22:29subtle.
22:30How do you
22:31know you're
22:31being discriminated
22:32against?
22:33You can't explain
22:34it but you know.
22:35You know.
22:36If your landlord
22:36doesn't respond to
22:37you, maybe he
22:38hates me or
22:39does he not
22:40want me to
22:42rent his
22:42property?
22:43So these
22:43kinds of
22:44things are
22:44very subtle
22:45and difficult
22:46to measure
22:47in that sense,
22:49different to
22:49other forms of
22:50legislation.
22:51And coming
22:51back to my
22:52point,
22:52which is why
22:53I think that
22:54the RTA
22:55should exist
22:56with other
22:57mechanisms.
22:59If we have
23:00time, we can
23:01address this
23:01later.
23:01and then I
23:02think that
23:03way, it
23:03would be a
23:04multifaceted
23:05way to
23:06address the
23:06whole issue
23:07of rental
23:08discrimination.
23:09All right.
23:10In terms of
23:11pushbacks,
23:12it depends,
23:13Melissa.
23:13It depends.
23:14It could be
23:14us.
23:15It could be
23:15me.
23:16I am
23:16pushing this,
23:18you know,
23:18against this
23:19law.
23:19Depending on
23:20the law.
23:21Depending.
23:22Consider this.
23:23Consider this.
23:23Consider this.
23:24Well, if you
23:25have a bunch
23:26of landlords
23:26sitting in a
23:28meeting room
23:29discussing
23:29about policy
23:30drafting
23:31the
23:32Residential
23:32Tenancy Act,
23:34what kind
23:34of
23:35residential
23:36tenancy
23:36act would
23:37you expect
23:37if there
23:39are all
23:40landlords
23:40discussing
23:41that,
23:41drafting
23:42that.
23:43All right.
23:43Now, I'm
23:43going back to
23:44I'm going to
23:45share a bit
23:46of a short
23:47story why
23:47landlords are
23:48called
23:48landlords,
23:49not house
23:50lot.
23:50So, it
23:51goes back
23:52to the
23:52old feudal
23:53system.
23:54Basically,
23:55landlords means
23:55the owner
23:57of the
23:57lands,
23:57right?
23:58And during
23:58all modern
23:59times,
24:00landlords were
24:01only responsible
24:02to provide
24:03a land with
24:04maybe some
24:05basic
24:05infrastructure,
24:06not really
24:07to ensure
24:08safetyness
24:09or habitable
24:10or decent
24:11quality of
24:12the properties.
24:13So, of course,
24:14there's a dispute
24:14on that.
24:15Tenants brought
24:16this up to the
24:17court and they
24:18checked the
24:18law.
24:19They checked
24:19the law.
24:20Actually,
24:21it's quite,
24:22it's no
24:23problem for
24:24landlords to
24:25do so,
24:25to neglect
24:26that,
24:27neglect that,
24:27the issues
24:28that you
24:28bring,
24:30you know,
24:30you don't
24:31have,
24:32your property
24:32don't have
24:32proper piping,
24:34proper heating
24:34or proper
24:35cooling.
24:36Why you
24:37think so?
24:38It was
24:39because the
24:39landsloid
24:40made the
24:41law.
24:42Right.
24:42So,
24:43again,
24:44my point is
24:45that depending,
24:46I haven't seen
24:47the draft yet.
24:47Depending on
24:48who makes
24:48the law.
24:49Exactly.
24:50Exactly.
24:51But,
24:51of course,
24:52when it was
24:52proposed in
24:53National Housing
24:55Policy 2.0,
24:57the government
24:57really stated
24:58that the law
25:00would ensure
25:01that,
25:02would serve
25:03the best interest
25:04to the best interest
25:04of landlords
25:05and as well
25:06as the tenants.
25:08So,
25:08they are finding
25:10the balance
25:11there.
25:12Right?
25:12Yeah.
25:13So,
25:13I mean,
25:14you look at
25:14the current law
25:15as well,
25:16there's a debate.
25:17For example,
25:18when it comes
25:19to eviction,
25:21it wasn't easy.
25:22It is not easy
25:23for landlords
25:23to evict
25:24a people.
25:25It takes
25:25quite a long
25:27process.
25:28You know,
25:28sometimes,
25:29it would hurt
25:29for the genuine
25:30landlords.
25:31So,
25:32think about that.
25:33Landlords
25:33should think
25:34about that as well.
25:35But,
25:35again,
25:36it depends
25:36who created
25:37and who
25:38drafted
25:39the law.
25:40Yeah.
25:41Which is why
25:41I think,
25:42you know,
25:42a point that's
25:43really important
25:43here is that
25:44while the government
25:45is drafting
25:46the law,
25:47I think
25:47consultations
25:48with different
25:49kinds of
25:49stakeholders
25:50is extremely
25:50important.
25:51You need
25:52the landlords
25:52in the
25:53conversation,
25:53you need
25:54the renters
25:54in the
25:55conversation,
25:55the CSOs
25:56and everybody
25:57who's working
25:58on this issue
25:58in the
25:59conversation.
26:00Because if
26:00they're not
26:01here,
26:01then how are
26:02you going
26:02to reflect
26:03their best
26:03interest when
26:04you don't
26:04know what
26:05their best
26:05interest is?
26:06You need
26:06to hear
26:06them out
26:07and you
26:07need to
26:07listen to
26:08them.
26:08Both of
26:09you,
26:09thank you
26:09so much
26:10for shedding
26:10some much
26:11needed light
26:12on this matter.
26:13I appreciate
26:13your time.
26:14Thank you both.
26:15That's all the
26:16time we have
26:16for you on
26:16this episode of
26:17Consider This.
26:18I'm Melissa
26:18Idris signing
26:19out for the
26:20evening.
26:20Thank you so
26:21much for
26:21watching.
26:22Good night.
26:22Good night.
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