- 3 months ago
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00For Nigeria, 2025 is the year women are making history in the workforce.
00:04Hello and welcome to Guardian Talks. I am Temitaya Olumofir.
00:08Today is Women's Equality Day, themed speaking out, standing out, and breaking the status quo.
00:16I am not going to be having this conversation alone.
00:19I'm having this conversation alongside our delectable guest.
00:22That is Ijeoma Thomas-Odea, editor, Guardian Woman, and also former author, Temitokwe, fashion enthusiast and also a vlogger.
00:31We'll be back in a moment. Stick around.
00:42Welcome to Guardian Talks. And like I said earlier, it's Women's Equality Day.
00:48So to begin with, according to 2025 Global Gender Gap Reports, Nigeria has reached its highest ever female labor force participation at 95.6%,
00:59marking a major step in closing the gender gap despite mixed overall performance.
01:05So to start with, let me start with Ijeoma Odea.
01:08What does this milestone really mean for Nigerian women?
01:11I don't know how we, you know, arrived at that, but for me, as much as we're excited, I still feel like there's still work to be done, right?
01:24And so that gender gap or that data that you have reeled out is not, for me, is not translating to, you know, the political space, you know, the place of women in making decisions that affect, you know, most, you know, most as women in Nigeria, even in Africa, really.
01:49And, you know, and we see that there are a lot of women who are looking at having, you know, to be in rooms, to be in spaces and to lead.
02:02And of course, we can see that in the banking sector, more women, you know, are taking up those spaces.
02:08More women are even thriving in tech.
02:10So if you're looking at it from, say, the private sector, right, we can see that we are pushing and that shows the amount of work, the amount of dedication, the amount of, you know, the amount of, you know, everything that they get to put in, despite all of the stereotypes that are attached to that one being a woman, right?
02:32Right. And I'm hoping that going forward, when it comes to politics, you know, these things will begin to change.
02:43Right.
02:43That's when I would really say, yes, we have made, you know, that mark.
02:47Let me take it a step further to tame it up.
02:49Are women now breaking into jobs, more things as men's work?
02:54Oh, yes. I would say yes to that.
02:57And let's look at it from an angle of, say, military, say, carpentry, being pilots.
03:07There are the occupations that have always been seen as, oh, it's for men.
03:11Not because they've tried women in those aspects, but, you know, there's this thing where a woman is just supposed to be like the lesser gender, like she's not supposed to be able to.
03:20But looking at the way things have been, women have really been thriving in professions that have always been male-dominated and seem to be like, oh, this should apply to men.
03:31Like when they need someone for the particular role, oh, let's look for someone to do it.
03:36And then the application revolves around a man.
03:41But now women are really breaking grounds and doing major shifts and taking up roles that are like.
03:49Okay. Now, Tijama, what helped drive this sharp rise in participation?
03:56I mean, what has helped drive this sharp rise in women participation in this workforce?
04:02Oh, right. So the world is changing.
04:06Gone are the days when we have, you know, we used to have just the men, our fathers, our grandfathers go to work, you know, and the mothers at home, you know, tending to children.
04:16And, you know, that historical part where everything is left for the man to handle and which has led more women to, you know, feel like, oh, my space just belongs to the kitchen.
04:34We are beginning to see a revolution, not just because more women want to work, not just because more women want to even be accountable for themselves,
04:43but because the economy also expects, you know, both the man and the woman to, you know, bring something to the table.
04:51You're right.
04:52Yeah.
04:52You know, gone are the days when you send a girl child to school and when she's done with university, the next thing is she goes into her husband's house and she's in his kitchen, right?
05:01Like they would traditionally see.
05:04And because we're beginning to see that more women are daring, you know, just like she said, more women are beginning to take up jobs that are meant for men.
05:12Right.
05:12You know, other women are saying, oh, if she can do it, why not I?
05:16Right.
05:16And so we're seeing that change, you know, our aunties, our, you know, our uncles, sorry, our aunties, sisters.
05:25So right now you cannot say that you don't know somebody in your neighborhood or your family who is doing something that was probably, you know, known as, oh, this is left for the man to do.
05:37Okay.
05:37Right.
05:38Yeah.
05:38All right.
05:39So Timitope, are you saying that women have redefined homemaking in these modern times?
05:44Well, yes, I would say that because first off, like she mentioned, like Ijoma mentioned, like women, when it comes to homemaking, it has always been a woman is supposed to just be the housekeeper, take care of the home, the kids.
05:59Like they've limited what a woman can do.
06:01A woman's power is like to be in a home, being inside the house.
06:04But now women are taking up a lot of more challenging, you know, professions.
06:10They are delivering more, even into the family.
06:12Unlike before, when a woman is saying, this is what you can do, like just limited to the same things.
06:17Now women are coming out and they are doing more.
06:21Sometimes, I don't want to use the word equalize, but a woman is doing just as much as a man financially, morally, even mentally.
06:29Because, you know, at some point, it's just the way she made mention of societal, societal angle.
06:35Like there are even decisions that wants to be made and then it is just left to the man of the house.
06:40So you see that man of the house mentality is dying down.
06:43The woman has a say, she has an opinion now.
06:45So if we're talking about, oh, what are we doing in the house?
06:48What are the decisions to make?
06:49It is not just about, oh, she can only decide when to go to the market or when to buy things.
06:53She can make life-changing decisions.
06:54We're buying properties, getting bonds, you know, investing.
06:58A woman has a say, just like the man does.
07:01That's right.
07:02Yeah.
07:02Oh, can I add to that?
07:03Yeah, please go ahead.
07:03So, you know, why all of this is also changing, as we can see, is there's something about being financially independent.
07:11Oh, yes.
07:12And because we're beginning to preach a lot of women empowerment, you know, women having capacity.
07:18Because financial independence also gives you power.
07:22Oh, yes, it does.
07:22If you have money, you have power.
07:24Right?
07:25Women have a say.
07:27You can decide how you want your life to be wrong.
07:30Gone are the days when you allow your husband, you know, to decide everything for you.
07:36Even when it doesn't sit right.
07:37Even when it doesn't sit right, really.
07:39So, we're beginning to see more women in that space where they are making their money.
07:45You know, they are sitting on boards.
07:47You know, they are making financial decisions.
07:50In general.
07:50Healthy financial decisions.
07:51And the truth is that more women are still learning how to even make financial decisions.
07:56Right.
07:56Because we're beginning to see all these things changing.
07:59So, why not?
08:01Right.
08:01We're ready to roll.
08:02Okay.
08:04Itoma, why are Nigerian women still being left behind?
08:08You know, you made mention of the inclusion earlier.
08:11That's the first question.
08:12So, do you think Nigerian women are still being left behind in some certain areas?
08:16So, it's not just Nigerian women, really.
08:17Sadly, it's not just Nigerian women.
08:21African women, generally, and even across the world, right?
08:26We're beginning to see some change in Rwanda.
08:31Is that Rwanda?
08:32Yeah, Rwanda.
08:32You have a lot of female leadership, right?
08:37But then, I saw a tweet.
08:42I don't know if I can mention it.
08:44I can go ahead.
08:44So, I saw a tweet where, I don't know if I should mention the names, but let me just
08:50go ahead.
08:51And then she was mentioning how people do not respect her.
08:57Right?
08:58She's a doctor.
08:59So, she has a doctorate, and she runs an organization.
09:03And then, people don't accord her that kind of respect.
09:06Oh, okay.
09:07I know.
09:07Yeah, yeah, yeah.
09:08I'm sure you remember the thought of it.
09:09Accord her to a man.
09:10If she were in the same position.
09:11We were in the same position.
09:13And then, somebody goes, sweetheart.
09:17You know?
09:17So, these are stereotypes.
09:19It's a way to belittle.
09:20It is.
09:21You just look at it, and you're wondering, where would all of these things end?
09:25Right.
09:26Right.
09:26It's okay if you're a man, and you have that position, and everybody will bow to you.
09:31But, let it be a woman.
09:32They will not remember.
09:33Oh, how is she?
09:35The energy is always different.
09:36Are you sure she's not into prostitution?
09:38Oh, are you sure she's not?
09:39You know?
09:40Yeah.
09:40There's always a tag.
09:41There's always a tag.
09:42So, you see that stereotyping?
09:44I don't know when it's going to end.
09:45And, there's a US statistics that actually said it's going to take about 100 years to get
09:49that gender parity.
09:50I don't know.
09:51Okay.
09:52So, as a fashion enthusiast, like, this year's theme says,
09:56on Women's Equality Day, say, standing out, speaking up, and breaking the status quo.
10:01Let's take a look at dress code and double standards in our society.
10:06Yeah.
10:06Timitope, why are women's appearances often linked to morality, and who benefits from
10:11this narrative?
10:13Patriarchy.
10:13That is what it is.
10:15So, you see this thing about dressing?
10:18There's been a lot of conversations around it, which I don't think would end soon.
10:23Now, appearance, yeah.
10:24There's this quote that goes, never judge a book by its cover.
10:28Right.
10:28I mean, there's more to what a woman embodies than what she's wearing.
10:32Right.
10:33A lot of times, a woman's mental capacity is just, they're just making revolve around,
10:39oh, this is how she's dressed, and that is it.
10:41No.
10:42And then, they still try to pin it on sexual harassment.
10:45Oh, she has to look this thing, she has to wear this, she needs to look a certain way
10:49to avoid predators.
10:50But we all know that even in situations, hijabis get sexually harassed.
10:57Now, for a lady that is well-covered, we've seen girls coming from night vigil.
11:02We see all these things online.
11:04Everything.
11:04A girl is coming from a vigil.
11:05Someone that went to a vigil, we can tell what her dress sense is.
11:08And then, she gets raped under me.
11:09Please, what is it about someone that is well-clothed that attracts a predator?
11:14If not, the predator himself is just not well-grounded.
11:17So, as much as society wants to focus on a woman's attire, what she's wearing, how she
11:21looks, a public appearance, majority of the work needs to be done on the other gender.
11:29Right.
11:30Teach the boys.
11:32I'm using boys because it has to start from the scratch.
11:36Teach the boys to have regard and have respect for the woman body.
11:41Teach them to have morals.
11:42Teach the boys because you would see, even young boys now, young boys, you see them on
11:47the road, they'll see a woman, and then they're making funny compliments.
11:51And they're like, you should not even be talking about stuff like this.
11:53Like, how were you trained?
11:54Who raised you?
11:56So, a woman's appearance is not something to be dabbled upon because for every time this
12:01happens, the blame is still on the woman.
12:04It is still on the girl.
12:05What happened to the predator?
12:07What happened to the person that harassed her?
12:09Why are we blaming her?
12:10Victim blaming, it has always been a thing, and it needs to stop.
12:15It's like a grassroots thing.
12:16They need to start the work from, I don't want to say maybe kindergarten because those
12:21are kids, I don't understand, but me from secondary school, once a boy is approaching
12:24teenage, begin to teach him.
12:27A girl could be dressed, maybe let me use the word inappropriately, and a man sees her
12:33and still understands that, okay, this is not avenue for me to say I want to touch her
12:37in the wrong way or say, oh, I want to harass her.
12:40No, that does not give room for that.
12:41If someone is inappropriately dressed as a lady and it can be handled in other ways,
12:47but not by harassing, by slut-shaming and, you know, slut-shaming women too is a thing
12:53on its own.
12:54Whether you're fully dressed or not, like you reference the other time, like, oh, maybe
12:57she did wrongs to get her money or maybe she did this too.
12:59I don't, I'm sorry to bot in, I don't know if you saw this video that's making trends
13:04online about some core, a female core member that was stripped naked and I think this also
13:11boils down to having regard for women because I saw the video and I couldn't finish watching
13:18it.
13:19The one that happened in Anambra.
13:20The one that happened in Anambra.
13:23Oh.
13:24Yeah.
13:24So it was alleged that I think they are into form of dubious acts.
13:29It was alleged, it wasn't proven.
13:31But then I think the security watch in that neighborhood got a hold on this core member
13:38and then stripped her naked, started beating and then the wife of the state governor came
13:44out and then offer help.
13:47So, um, I wanted to now, you know, when you, when you talked about this in starting from
13:53the boys and I remember that even in the Bible, when, when Jesus, you know, was trying to save
13:58the, the, the, the lady who, who they call the prostitutes, you know, they were trying
14:03to stone her and he said, if, if you are any man without sin, be the first and nobody did.
14:09So at that point, how come she was the only one with sin?
14:12Right.
14:13There was a man.
14:13So it just tells you how far back this has been a thing.
14:20Right.
14:20And it's not living only soon.
14:22So, because if you're shaming the prostitute, how about people patronizing her?
14:26Who may not be prostitutes?
14:27Like you can't prostitute on the house or you're patronage.
14:30You know, and you know, the, the fact that when we, you know, when we try to judge people
14:37by the looks, you know, it just tells how small minded people can be.
14:42Yeah.
14:43Right.
14:44And these are things that you cannot learn them from a school.
14:47You cannot, they are, they are habits that have to start from families, have to start
14:52from homes.
14:52You know, just like she said.
14:55I would like to hear your thoughts both on, on this.
14:58What practical steps can men, like she said earlier, and other allies take to help end
15:04the shaming and restrictions women face over clothing.
15:07Do we have an anti-sexual harassment bill?
15:12Because I don't know what's going on with it.
15:15You see the issue of Natasha and the Fabio.
15:18So, if at that level, they are still playing hanky-panky.
15:23So, what's the fate of the average man out there?
15:27That's why we'll just keep running in silos.
15:30Because what happens to an anti-sexual harassment bill?
15:34There are economies with rape policies, you know, bills that actually address these things.
15:40But we have, we have seen that from what we, what we have, um, what we have with us, some
15:47of these things are not clearly, you know, stated.
15:50And they're not clearly stated.
15:52You cannot, they're not, the thing with, there's no rule governing them.
15:55Yes.
15:56You know that when it comes to, when it comes to sexual harassment, it is not just to rape.
16:01It is not just even catcalling.
16:05Yeah.
16:05It's under sexual harassment.
16:06Yeah.
16:06All these things are under sexual harassment.
16:08But these are things that we have not been able to fully implement.
16:13Because I know that when it comes to Nigeria, we are good with laws, policies, you know,
16:18signing one, um, bills, one bill, or being a, um, being a signatory to one act or the other.
16:26But when it comes to implementing it, even these police people you are talking of, that's
16:30what they understand.
16:32That's what they understand.
16:33You look at, even in the police force, there are supposed to be gender desk.
16:38And now, you hear things like, okay, you train some people, you know, on how to handle issues
16:44like this.
16:45Because if you come to a police station and say, oh, I was really, they say, wait till you
16:48said it.
16:49Wait till you said it.
16:50That's very common.
16:51Is that what a policeman is supposed to be doing?
16:53Right.
16:53And then a lawyer who is supposed to be defending you in court, if he does not understand these
16:58issues and how to, then there's a problem.
17:00And that's why this menace keeps increasing.
17:03So we're looking at a, an economy where issues like this will become a common thing for every
17:11other person to access, you know, to gain the knowledge, you know, the, the, you know,
17:17resources to understand these things that are just available for everybody.
17:21Right.
17:21Because people don't even understand, like I said, that catcalling is even a form of
17:24sexual harassment.
17:26You see, men, when you find them, you are harassing.
17:30Or you go to the market, someone will get something.
17:32That one is even more awesome.
17:33You know, there's a bunch of similar things that people go through every other day.
17:37Right.
17:37There are all forms of sexual harassment.
17:39People do not understand this.
17:41And then the police that you might want to run to, or the courts that you might want
17:46to run to, do they understand these things?
17:48Right.
17:48How do you, how do you even, you know, give judgment to these things?
17:52Do you want to watch what she says?
17:53Oh yeah.
17:54When she mentioned, I think I, I think I skipped.
17:57When she mentioned, um, um, catcalling, like all of those things.
18:01So, um, I just want to go to the fact that most of these things that happen, asides
18:05the law, to be honest, there's also the societal part of it.
18:10Um, so a young boy will do same things that he has seen other uncles in the neighborhood
18:15do.
18:16So first off, the teaching has to still be there.
18:19Who is the law?
18:19Is it not the society?
18:21Yeah.
18:21So you implement law when you've taught someone that this is how you do it.
18:25Um, and then they don't do it how they're supposed to.
18:28When you break a law, there's a punishment.
18:30But when you do not even know the law, you don't know that, oh, okay, this is wrong.
18:33So until we begin to teach the boy child that, see, you don't, you're not supposed
18:37to do this.
18:38This is wrong.
18:39Don't touch a woman, you know, inappropriately.
18:41See how a lot of times a girl will go to her boyfriend's place.
18:44No is no.
18:45We all know that.
18:46And then the next thing people tell you is, why, why did you go there?
18:48Why did you go there?
18:49I can't go anywhere I want to go and still say no.
18:52Why do I, why do I need a certain place?
18:54Even if I'm half naked, I can still, even when you are trying to enter, I can still say
18:58no.
18:58Exactly.
18:59And you should be able to, so that respect, that respect for the female gender is what the
19:05male gender needs to be taught.
19:06Right.
19:07And one thing I've come to understand is men love to listen to other men.
19:11You know, men don't really like to listen to women.
19:13Men love listening to other men.
19:15So I feel like as crazy as this might sound, this particular mission is for the men to still
19:20do.
19:20Right.
19:21For the men that care about the female gender, for the men that, that are fathers, uncles,
19:28um, um, they have, they have nieces.
19:30If you don't want to protect the woman that you call maybe your girlfriend, your wife,
19:33you will love your daughter.
19:34Do it for your daughter.
19:35Scrutinize boys because of your daughter.
19:37Right.
19:37For your nieces that you love.
19:39The ones that call you uncle that like to come to your place.
19:42Do it for them.
19:43Do it for the society.
19:44So this is how it starts because this is something that has been taught generations
19:48to see how you were friends way back to the Bible.
19:51I mean, this is something that has been taught generation to generation.
19:54So until we begin to fix it from the grassroots, like from the, from the foundation, let's begin
19:58to teach them.
19:59Raise awareness.
20:00Actually for men, because trust me, men love to listen to other men.
20:04Right.
20:04Men love to listen to other men.
20:06Hmm.
20:06Okay.
20:07So as I go to the final question, I don't know who's going to take it first that, but
20:11according to the report I read earlier regarding the gender, uh, global gap, how do we keep
20:17this momentum towards true gender equality?
20:20Looking at this global gender gap, 2025 report, where it's saying that, okay, Nigeria is making
20:26history, Nigeria women rather, they are making history when it comes to workforce.
20:31But how do we keep this momentum towards true gender equality?
20:36Looking at this report, how?
20:39Do you want to take it?
20:42All right.
20:43Um, so first off mentorship, mentorship, because like she said, when you asked the first question,
20:49women are really going all the way out.
20:53You know, you're getting motivation from, Oh, this person can do it.
20:55I can do it too.
20:56So I feel like mentorship is the first step and then raising the awareness.
21:01And I feel like a lot of women, when they break grounds, when you, when you do something
21:06that a woman is not even so seen to be able to do, let people know, be out there, show
21:12off.
21:13If that is the word, show off.
21:15Let them know.
21:15Yeah, I did this.
21:16I mean, you did it.
21:17So why not show off?
21:19You showing off is a reminder to every other girl seeing you that, okay, wait, so then
21:24I can do this too.
21:25Like maybe it is not that hard or maybe it is, it doesn't really have to be a man that
21:29does it.
21:29So the mentorship, because, because of the way, the mentality that we've been made to
21:34feel, Oh, saying things, a woman should not do this or a girl is not supposed to do this.
21:39Mentorship helps with that too.
21:41Being able to communicate, let girls know that.
21:43So you can break barriers.
21:44There's no holding you back.
21:46You can go all the way out.
21:47You want to do this.
21:48You feel, Oh, they are made.
21:49Do it too.
21:50You're not restricted.
21:51All right.
21:52Okay.
21:52So, um, if I'm to add to this, I'll start with, um, the lady I met say last week, she
21:59came all the way from the UK and she's here to, you know, encourage more women to buy property
22:05in the UK.
22:06So it means that she has seen something, right?
22:10So her aim is, she wants more women because it means that people are, more women have been
22:16coming over.
22:16So now she wants to come to where they say, you know, is the hub of women who are, let
22:22me encourage them because, so it means that more women have it.
22:25So more women need to also know where they put in their money when it comes to investment.
22:31And that shows, of course, it reflects in the report.
22:33I'm just trying to align with what you have said.
22:36And so what does it generally say is that if I'm seeing you do it, and I know that you're
22:41also a woman like me, why not?
22:43We're all going up together.
22:45So let's just keep at it.
22:47We see today that there are, you know, a lot of motivational events, you know, women
22:54conference, holding a lot of them.
22:57In fact, most professional bodies have a women's wing.
23:01Right.
23:01There is just none.
23:03Just mention the professional.
23:05Tell you the women's part of it.
23:06Just be a girl's girl.
23:07You know, most professions have a women's wing.
23:10And it was intentional because they see that besides being an engineer, there's a need to
23:15have women in engineering because there's something just the womanhood, you know, brings to it.
23:22Because sometimes when you leave that woman in the space of the man, the man is probably
23:26heading everything and taking everywhere.
23:29But they need to also feel their leadership and, you know, make things run the way they
23:35want.
23:35And we have also seen that, well, of course, your report also says that more women are,
23:41you know, when you put them in a space that is even run, that is for a man and a woman,
23:45they do better.
23:46Right.
23:47They do better.
23:48They have better results.
23:50The economy is better.
23:52So, why are women not giving you a chance?
23:54Sorry, let me add to that.
23:56You mentioned politics the other time.
23:58You know, I still feel like Nigerian politics will do better with more women.
24:04I still feel, I don't know why I always feel that.
24:06Like, and I feel, I feel, I feel like women, they keep, they keep trying to, I feel like
24:10that's a sector where it's so hard for women to penetrate.
24:14I don't know why.
24:15Look at when you reference this Natasha woman and, you know, that's something that won't
24:18happen with a fellow man.
24:20We know that.
24:20That won't happen with a fellow man.
24:22But because it's a woman, there's always this thing where you feel like I have to clip
24:25her wings.
24:27It happens.
24:28Like, I have to clip her wings.
24:29The Senate today has about maybe two women right now in the Senate because Natasha is
24:34away.
24:35You don't even hear them.
24:36I'm sure if you open the daily, you can't hear that a woman is in the Senate because she's
24:42probably trying to protect, like, they clip them, they clip them in the situation.
24:45She's trying to protect what she has, a certain level.
24:49I'm sure we can't stop talking about this because it's a continuous conversation.
24:54I really want to appreciate your time with us here.
24:56I'm a woman, a woman, a woman, and also a woman, a fashion enthusiast and also a vlogger.
25:04I want to appreciate you, your submission, your intelligence inside.
25:07Thank you so much.
25:09And like you rightly heard, every woman's voice matters.
25:14So the conversation does not stop here.
25:15It continues.
25:16And then we can keep the conversation alive on Guardian TV.
25:20Now you can just go straight to Guardian Nigeria across all social media platforms.
25:25I am Temitaya Olumothe.
25:27It has been Guardian Talks.
25:29Bye.
Be the first to comment