- 4 months ago
- #cinema
- #venicefilmfestival
At last year’s Venice Film Festival, Stranger Eyes became the first-ever Singaporean film to land in the main competition, vying for the Golden Lion. Launching as a crackerjack thriller and morphing into a tender, existential set of musings on the mutually sparking tussle between surveillance and identity, Yeo Siew Hua’s third feature keeps us guessing, as it takes wild turns.
Ahead of the film’s North American release later this month, Yeo Siew Hua sat down with Outlook’s Debanjan Dhar for an exclusive conversation.
00:00 – 00:06 | Following and Watching
00:35 – 01:18 | Mediations and Perspectives
01:29 – 02:24 | A World of Perspectives
02:45 – 03:26 | Osmosis and the Mirror
03:49 – 05:13 | Watching as Transformation
05:27 – 07:19 | The Challenge of Two Apartments
07:26 – 10:35 | Producers as Companions
10:46 – 13:29 | The Silent Actor
13:35 – 15:14 | Cultures of Acting
15:34 – 17:53 | Editing Beyond Language
18:06 – 21:20 | Surveillance and Reception
21:29 – 22:26 | Voices of Singapore Cinema
22:40 – 22:56 | What Comes Next
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#Cinema #VeniceFilmFestival
Ahead of the film’s North American release later this month, Yeo Siew Hua sat down with Outlook’s Debanjan Dhar for an exclusive conversation.
00:00 – 00:06 | Following and Watching
00:35 – 01:18 | Mediations and Perspectives
01:29 – 02:24 | A World of Perspectives
02:45 – 03:26 | Osmosis and the Mirror
03:49 – 05:13 | Watching as Transformation
05:27 – 07:19 | The Challenge of Two Apartments
07:26 – 10:35 | Producers as Companions
10:46 – 13:29 | The Silent Actor
13:35 – 15:14 | Cultures of Acting
15:34 – 17:53 | Editing Beyond Language
18:06 – 21:20 | Surveillance and Reception
21:29 – 22:26 | Voices of Singapore Cinema
22:40 – 22:56 | What Comes Next
Follow us:
Website: https://www.outlookindia.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Outlookindia
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/outlookindia/
X: https://twitter.com/Outlookindia
Whatsapp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VaNrF3v0AgWLA6OnJH0R
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@OutlookMagazine
Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/outlookindia
#Cinema #VeniceFilmFestival
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FunTranscript
00:00Why are you talking about it?
00:07How are you?
00:17What I wanted to ask is what's so interesting about the film is the way it shifts
00:22and the lines between the stalker and the stalk keep shifting
00:27and it just keeps like unrolling and shifting itself and playing out all over a fragment of perspectives.
00:33I wanted to know because you have been writing and rewriting the film over 10 years,
00:38how did you enlistast the various mediations, the various layers that the self, the reality, life, relationships moved through?
00:48I guess, you know, of course, firstly, I wanted to make a film about watching people, right?
01:00And, you know, I cannot get away from the idea of that, you know, every time you watch someone,
01:08it's from a certain perspective. There is never sort of a God's eye view, right, that one can see everything.
01:17And I'm a firm believer that, you know, every certain fact taken from the standpoint of where you see it
01:26and who you are watching it, you know, colours the event quite differently, right?
01:33So I think it is about perspectives. It's a film really about perspectives.
01:39And I wanted to play with the idea of this multi-perspective, right?
01:45But at the same time, I don't need to look too far to think about this idea
01:51because it's really in our everyday lives now. You know, we look at social media, we look at, you know,
01:57there's like, there's so much perspectives given to us, you know, we can't differentiate truth from lies,
02:07we can't differentiate, you know, the multitude of perspectives that are given to us right now.
02:14And for me, I even think that my audience is quite used to flipping around from perspectives these days.
02:23Sometimes, you know, the audience these days, they are so used to having different forms of mediums thrown at them.
02:34Yeah. Staying put in one medium seems to be difficult these days for many.
02:40Yeah. We are so overstimulated all the time. So yeah, it's become almost natural.
02:45But also there's this kind of osmosis, a kind of reflection between the two men,
02:52the younger and the older man, a kind of mirroring.
02:55Was that always like a key trigger in the narrative when you were starting out?
03:00No, absolutely. I think structurally when I was writing this film,
03:08I had always imagined this two blocks of flats as they are looking at each other as a certain kind of,
03:20how should I call it, like a metaphysical mirror, you know, reflecting on each other.
03:27Of course, slowly, it reveals itself to be the case, maybe not right from the start.
03:33And, you know, there's a slow realization about it. Yeah.
03:37And so this osmosis, it's at the same time a question of like, you know, were they all the time already the same person?
03:48Or, you know, is this something like, or is a transformation happening?
03:54And for me, it's very curious because it's also something I like to explore,
04:00that if you watch someone intently and you spend a lot of time watching the person,
04:08I honestly believe that there is a certain kind of transformation that happens because watching is not,
04:14it's not a passive act.
04:17Yeah. So many times I'm watching people just on the streets, total strangers,
04:24and they, you know, I see that they are playing with their fingers or tapping their fingers.
04:29And I realized I'm doing the same thing, like unconscious, right?
04:34Yeah.
04:35It's a strange thing. Like you, you know, we as human beings, we are mimicking animals.
04:40I mean, we are animals who mimic, right? To put it this way.
04:44We take on the forms of the other, you know, the other that we see.
04:49And so I think there's a lot of self-discovery through the other.
04:56You know, I don't believe in a process of self-discovery on pure introspection.
05:02You know, I'm a firm believer in the idea of a self-discovery through the other.
05:08And I think a lot of this film, as you say, there's an osmosis between them.
05:13And I take that to be the case of a transformation.
05:18Yeah, because we are not discrete entities. We're always absorbing, we're always reflecting of the other.
05:23And this is what the film really, like, incredibly captures very well.
05:27But I do want to talk about the two apartments, which I found very, like, fascinating.
05:32Because how did you pull that off? Like, it's almost the same height.
05:35And yeah, so tell me a little bit about sourcing and possibly the permission for that would have been a little difficult.
05:41That has, that is actually the most difficult part of the film.
05:46Rightfully pointed out. Because, you know, looking at the film, it seems to be easy.
05:55You know, like, it seems to be like, you know, just two residential units looking at each other.
06:03But that's a disguise, right? It's actually way more difficult than it seems.
06:10Because as you pointed out that these two units have to be at the exact same height, so that we have the right viewing angles into each other.
06:20And you can imagine if it's just a little bit higher or lower, we would not be able to see the apartment very well, right?
06:28The apartment across. And these are both lived in apartments.
06:34These are actual apartments used by, you know, by families, right?
06:40It was not a set that we create.
06:43And so, two families, we need, we needed to find firstly, two appropriate sized, appropriate class and sized apartments.
06:54And that both families have to be willingly agreeing to vacate their apartment for two weeks at the same time.
07:09At the same time. Because if one of them disagrees, the other one, you know, it doesn't matter, right?
07:14The two have to, yeah, have to be agreeing at the same time.
07:19And so, I just have to say that I thankfully have an amazing team, my locations and logistics team,
07:31who basically went to knock on, you know, half of the doors of Singapore, just to get this.
07:40I remember quite clearly that, I think it was almost a month before we started shooting.
07:49The pairing that we found, one of them dropped out.
07:55So, it was a disaster. Yeah, it was a total disaster.
07:59We were scrambling. We were really scrambling.
08:02And if there are no apartments, there's no film, right?
08:08So, we were scrambling. But thankfully, again, we managed to find a pairing, like, even better than the one that we found before.
08:17That they agreed to let us use the space. And that's why we have the film now.
08:23Yeah, yeah.
08:25Talk to me a little bit about having producers like Akanga Film Asia who really stick by you and who really prop you up at the right time.
08:35Because, yeah, it's almost like a second rebirth of this film.
08:39Talk to me a little bit about that, having producers like them.
08:43Yeah.
08:44So, Fran, Fran Borja of Akanga.
08:48Yeah.
08:49And later on, the other producer I worked with a lot, Dan Koh.
08:53I mean, these people have been behind me right from the start, you know, I have to say.
09:00I mean, we're looking at stranger eyes and it's something that we were working on for the last four to six years, depending on how you want to count the starting point.
09:12All through the pandemic.
09:15And they have worked with you on land imagined as well.
09:20Exactly.
09:21That's what I was also going to say.
09:22Like, yeah, these are, but at the same time, these are producers who have worked with me from a land imagined, which was, again, another, you know, six to eight years, even before stranger eyes.
09:34And they have been behind me all through this time.
09:38They have stuck by me and they have believed in me.
09:40And that has been, that's really, really important because filmmaking for a director can be a very lonely journey.
09:47You know, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a long time that we take to realize the film, whether it is to get funding for development.
09:55Yeah.
09:56And it was so important that they stuck by me.
10:00But by me, not only that they believed in, in, in my vision, right.
10:04Fran, um, has been doing that with all his films, I believe.
10:08And that's why he has become a really important figure in Southeast Asia as a producer.
10:15Um, really bringing a lot of Southeast Asian cinema to, to the rest of the world, um, through co-productions and like basically through his love of cinema, you know, his passion for cinema.
10:29He is a truly passionate, um, um, cinema lover over and beyond a producer.
10:34And that I really respect him for.
10:36Yeah.
10:37Yeah.
10:38Because I remember Akanga has also like done incredible work on, with a lot of, a lot of Indian filmmakers of late.
10:44So yeah, I'm pretty impressed.
10:46Yeah.
10:47But as incredible as, uh, Lee Kang is, which we'll get to, I was also struck by, uh, Wu, Wu Jien Ho.
10:54How do you pronounce his name?
10:55Wu Jien Ho.
10:56Yes.
10:57Wu Jien Ho.
10:58Yeah.
10:59Wu has a pretty complicated role because he doesn't really express so much, but he is containing a lot.
11:04So I want to know, like, because you say that you give a lot of freedom to your actors.
11:08How do you work with your actors through this maze of hidden glances?
11:12And yeah, talk to me a little bit about that.
11:15Um, yeah, I think you pointed out also exactly that, um, his role is really difficult because there is so much on his mind.
11:24There's so much like sort of kept within him, but at the same time, I didn't write so much lines for him to express this, you know, as an actor.
11:33This is, this is really difficult, you know, as an actor, it's a lot easier if you can express this through lines.
11:39But, um, I think I was, uh, trying to push, push him, um, with this challenge, uh, which he really took it on with, uh, um, beautifully, you know.
11:53Um, you know, he's a young, he's playing a young, a young guy, a young character.
11:58And how do you, I mean, you know, you, we've seen kind of cynical, silent, um, older kind of characters, you know, like, like that has a burden of history on, on, on them.
12:11But just as well, you know, we have young people who are very, very troubled now, um, who is unable to express themselves.
12:20You know, even more so in this new world, I would, I would say, you know, uh, and, uh, yeah, I, I think, uh, just really did an amazing job, uh, trying to capture that element from the script and to translate it with his body, you know, onto, onto the film.
12:41Um, I, I mean, there was no, I, there, there is no, um, sort of magic bullet to how to direct this, you know, but it's really about like tweaking it as we go.
12:56So maybe right from the start, you know, we had to, it's the first time we're working with each other also.
13:04Right. So I think it's, it's a lot of us needing to get a sense of each other to that, to have that trust between each other.
13:10And then as we go, we, we, I will tweak his performance.
13:14Um, and I think he really got it by the time, I think by the second day we were shooting, uh, he was really into the character.
13:22He was really immersed into it. And, you know, it's, it's almost hard to get him out of it, uh, after a while. Right.
13:29But yeah, it was, he was, he was, he was there with the character. Hmm. Yeah.
13:35And there was also this one thing that your DP, uh, Hideho also said that initially there was a bit of difficulty in,
13:41because there's some differences between the way Taiwanese and Singaporean actors act.
13:47So I wanted to know what that was. Could you expand a bit on that?
13:52Um, it's, it's hard to say exactly how different it is, but I would say that,
13:58I would say that they do come from different acting backgrounds, whether is it our film and our TV, uh,
14:05that's different from their film and their TV, you know, but I think that's, that's, that's fun for me.
14:11You know, I, I, I like to do this, like to bring actors from different, uh, acting backgrounds,
14:17sometimes from theater, sometimes from TV and sometimes from, from film, right.
14:21Sort of bring them together to, to, to jam, you know.
14:25Uh, I also think it, it, it keeps the actors on their toes a little because they are, they are, they are, they are acting with,
14:32with, with people they are not so familiar with or they're with not so familiar acting backgrounds, you know.
14:37Um, and I think this is really fun, uh, when, when we, when we put it all together and have a jam with it, you know.
14:44Uh, there is also, uh, an actor from Malaysia and let's not forget, um, Pete Teoh.
14:49Um, the, the guy who plays the, the, the police officer.
14:53So he's, he's from Malaysia.
14:55Yeah.
14:56Um, also an actor that I, I, I like a lot.
14:59Um, yeah.
15:00And, and they were all, you know, again, they needed time to find their own groove with each other.
15:06And, uh, but by the, you know, by the second and third day, we were all, um, really, really, uh, having a lot of fun with it.
15:14Yeah.
15:15Um, yeah.
15:16I, I, I would say, you know, some people are better at being spontaneous and some people are better at being, um, um, interpreting to the script.
15:26And, you know, I, I, and, and that just makes the whole mix, uh, better.
15:31Yeah.
15:32Yeah.
15:34But how involved are you in the editing?
15:36Because this, the editor who's worked on this was great.
15:39He's, he's French.
15:40But, uh, but did he like, uh, like, did he know the language?
15:45Like, was he aware of the, like, I wanted to ask you that how much does his awareness or lack of awareness of the language come in the way of approaching, uh, the classes, the kind of performances that he wanted?
15:57Uh, yeah.
15:58Um, I, I didn't want to get involved in the earlier stages of the, of the editing because that's what I want.
16:11I, I, I wanted him to sort of bring his own element into it instead of, you know, me being a director imposing right at the start.
16:19Um, and so, yes, um, the editor really, really, you know, worked his magic.
16:28And interestingly, I think it's nice that because this film is about gazes, it's about watching, you know, it's the, the, the textual element is there, of course, to understand the story of the film.
16:39And we, we gave him the subtitles so that he knew, of course, what the, what the scenes were about.
16:46But at the same time, there was so much other kind of subtleties in the film that you really need to pick up, not through the text of the film.
16:55And I think, you know, that's where I think he was, you know, it, it kind of crosses boundaries, right?
17:02Like, you know, whether the, the, in, in a way, the language, you know, it wasn't really about the language anymore at some point.
17:09Yeah.
17:10Yeah.
17:11And John Kristof, um, he is just, again, uh, an amazing, uh, editor and collaborator.
17:16Um, you know, he had something and then I, I came on board and then I was like, okay, this is very interesting.
17:24I like some of it, you know, some of it for me didn't work so much.
17:27And, and again, we, we, we jammed, you know, uh, and then, you know, we had iterations of it.
17:34Um, but I, again, I, I enjoyed that, you know, I wasn't working with people that was just out of my comfort zone.
17:44You know, it was, uh, uh, I, it's the first time for me working with a French editor, uh, and he brought something of his own, uh, into the film that, um, that for me was a true collaboration with him.
17:57Yeah.
17:58Now this film has released in Singapore earlier this year, correct?
18:03Uh, late last year or earlier this year?
18:07I mean, it's this.
18:08Yeah.
18:09Yeah.
18:10Yeah.
18:11Actually earlier this year.
18:12You're right.
18:13You're right.
18:14Earlier this year.
18:15Yeah.
18:16Earlier this year.
18:17Now tell me a little bit about, uh, the reception, not just locally, but internationally.
18:20What do you make of others think that you're amused by a little worried by when people talk about the stuff that this film is talking about?
18:28Um, it's interesting.
18:29It's interesting.
18:30It's interesting because, um, I think different people from different contexts have a very, very different relationship with surveillance.
18:43Right.
18:44Right.
18:45Um, we know in Asia, surveillance is very heavy.
18:46You know, I think that's a fact.
18:47Um, from Singapore where I come from, it is a very heavily surveillance, uh, city.
18:48Right.
18:49But also largely in Asia, right?
19:01Um, uh, uh, meanwhile, you know, maybe in Europe, um, they are very worried about surveillance.
19:06it is a very heavily surveillance city, right?
19:08But also largely in Asia, right?
19:13Meanwhile, you know, maybe in Europe,
19:16they are very worried about surveillance,
19:18but at the same time,
19:20but they're not,
19:21how to put it,
19:23they're not in that same way
19:24that we already sort of take surveillance
19:27as part of our natural environment, you know?
19:31Yeah.
19:31So there is still that relationship
19:34that is very different for them.
19:36I have shown this film
19:40in places that have told me
19:43that, you know,
19:46it really strikes fear onto them
19:50about this idea of surveillance,
19:53of being constantly watched.
19:55But at the same time,
19:56I've also shown this film to an audience
20:00that said, that told me,
20:02you weren't being critical enough.
20:05about surveillance, right?
20:09Yeah.
20:10And that's very interesting.
20:12You know, for me, that's very interesting.
20:13I mean,
20:15I,
20:15maybe I didn't set out to make a film
20:18that was purely demonizing surveillance.
20:21I feel like
20:21as it is now in our,
20:25you know,
20:25in the state of where we live in,
20:27I mean,
20:27I don't like to be constantly watched
20:29by surveillance myself.
20:31But at the same time,
20:33I can totally imagine
20:34a couple who lost their baby
20:36praying that the surveillance camera
20:39had caught something, right?
20:41I mean,
20:42we live in a much more complicated time
20:43than,
20:44you know,
20:45a black and white kind of
20:46no surveillance
20:48is going to encroach in our privacy.
20:51It's,
20:51it's,
20:51it's,
20:52it's the demon,
20:53you know?
20:55At the same time,
20:56we also have a social contract now
20:59with a lot of
21:00big corporates
21:02who are surveillancing us
21:04through our marketing materials,
21:06right?
21:07By,
21:08by the promise of,
21:10of more precise advertising,
21:12isn't it?
21:13So,
21:14this idea of surveillance is,
21:15for me,
21:16it's a lot more complicated
21:17than,
21:18than what it first seems,
21:19right?
21:19And I think
21:20a different audience
21:22with their different relationship
21:23with surveillance
21:24sees the film quite differently.
21:27Yeah.
21:28I want to like,
21:30finally take a couple of recommendations.
21:32Any filmmakers
21:32working in Singapore
21:34that you feel
21:34they should
21:35look out for?
21:36Oh,
21:38no,
21:38absolutely,
21:39yes.
21:41Daniel Hui,
21:43yeah,
21:44who also
21:45was the editor
21:47on Alain Imagine,
21:49a good friend
21:50and collaborator of mine.
21:51He has been making
21:52films together,
21:54you know,
21:55sort of in the same time
21:56as I was,
21:57and he has made
21:58some amazing films.
22:00So,
22:01do look out for
22:02Daniel Hui's films.
22:03Raja Gopal,
22:07K. Raja Gopal,
22:09who made
22:10A Yellow Bird.
22:13Actually,
22:14yeah,
22:15there's really
22:15so many,
22:17so many names.
22:18But,
22:19yeah,
22:21I,
22:21I work with
22:22a film collective
22:23of filmmakers
22:24called
22:24The 13 Little Pictures,
22:25to which I will also
22:27want to do a shout-out
22:28to them.
22:29They have been making
22:30very strong
22:31independent films
22:32for a long time.
22:34Very,
22:35very interesting films.
22:36Yeah.
22:37And last question,
22:38what's next for you?
22:39Is there anything
22:40you're working on?
22:42Nothing concrete yet.
22:44Yeah.
22:45I'm still,
22:46still thinking about this,
22:47but yeah.
22:49Okay.
22:49Okay.
22:50Thanks a lot.
22:51You're,
22:51wonderful to speak to you
22:53and I can't wait
22:53to see what you do next
22:54and good luck.
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