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00:00This is 50-year-old Carol Ray.
00:29She lives with her mother, Patricia, and her 3-year-old daughter.
00:51This made sense to the cops.
00:53Carol's mother, Patricia, didn't want to deal with her greedy grandson and decided
00:57to move out and ignore him, or at least that's what Carol claimed.
01:02Because at this point, police are completely unaware of the horrifying secrets that lie
01:07just feet away from them inside the house.
01:11And over the course of the next few days, this simple missing persons report would turn
01:16into hands down the most gruesome and disturbing case that they had ever worked on.
01:23And then I get a text message from Carol's mom, but it doesn't read like Carol's mom.
01:28She's texting me, I guess.
01:29Okay.
01:30She's sending the cops to my house again.
01:31Oh!
01:32My grandma's not at the house.
01:34It's clear that you're not telling us the truth.
01:37Where is she at, Carol?
01:41I'm sorry.
01:42This is okay.
01:44She's a little bit too late.
01:45Following the interaction with Carol the previous night, John would call the police again, slowly
01:50becoming more concerned that something had happened to Patricia.
01:54So at 11 a.m. on January 22, officers would arrive at Carol's house for a second time
01:59with the intent to find a conclusive answer to John's worries.
02:06Um, Grandma's Patricia, Mom is Carol.
02:17Hi, are you Carol?
02:19Yes.
02:19Is Patricia here?
02:20No, she's not.
02:21She's getting her B-12 shove or something like that with Dr. Tupon.
02:24It's not written down anywhere in here.
02:26Um, maybe I'll know she'll write it down on this Dr. T on the old calendar.
02:35This little girl.
02:36This is my daughter, Alice, and her granddaughter.
02:38Hi.
02:39Oh, okay.
02:40Does she live here with you?
02:41Yeah, we live together.
02:42Your grandma?
02:43Yeah.
02:44Or your mom?
02:45My mother.
02:46Sorry.
02:47She's been staying here at her sister's house for a couple of days because we just got diagnosed
02:52with pneumonia and got home from the hospital.
02:54I had diverticulitis at Webster.
02:56Okay.
02:57So she's back here though, staying here primarily now?
03:01Both.
03:02I mean, all of her clothes and everything are here.
03:05Um, she came by yesterday and she was here last, not last night, but night before last.
03:10And she was here yesterday for until about 5 PM and picked up her medications.
03:15Okay.
03:16And a fresh change of clothes and stuff like that.
03:18Okay.
03:19Well, the reason we're here is because your children are concerned about your grandma.
03:23My son, John, yeah, he sent you guys over last night, which I contacted my mother about
03:28that she hit a fit and I was going to go down to the police department today about it.
03:33Well, there's a little bit of a financial money issue between my mother and my older son,
03:37John.
03:38Okay.
03:39And he borrows a lot of money for her and doesn't repay it.
03:41He's got a truck in the backyard she bought him, a car in the garage that she bought him
03:45and she took back because he didn't pay the insurance on it.
03:48Okay.
03:49So my mom is a very finicky woman.
03:52So she got me.
03:53I see about that now.
03:55I got damn ready to call him.
03:57I got things to take care of.
03:58Right.
03:59Okay.
04:00Okay.
04:01Okay.
04:02How old's your mom?
04:03I said she's 69 this year.
04:04Based on Carol's story, Patricia is back living at her house and is currently at the doctor's
04:08office getting a monthly shot.
04:10Everything lines up.
04:11Patricia temporarily stopped communicating with John due to a financial dispute.
04:15However, John, being a caring grandchild, got worried something more sinister was at play.
04:20It seems like it was just miscommunication.
04:23However, officers decide to get all of Patricia's information and check her room just to ensure
04:28nothing's off.
04:29All right.
04:30Where's her room here?
04:31In the...
04:32It's right back here.
04:33Can we just look at it?
04:34Yeah.
04:35Do you want to see where her clothes are and everything?
04:36Yeah.
04:37Do you want to show us?
04:38Do you want to show us?
04:39I'm sorry, baby.
04:40Do you want to show where Grandma B's room is?
04:41The room is the last one on the right now since it's the first one on the left here.
04:44Nope.
04:45We haven't let Natalie sleep in this bedroom since Grandma B spent the night with her
04:50so that she can have her stuff on.
04:51Okay.
04:52All my mom's stuff is...
04:53And all her clothes are in there?
04:54All my mom's stuff is right there.
04:56There's clothes that she just lost.
04:58Okay.
04:59All right.
05:00We're good.
05:01We just see...
05:02We get the call, you know, and then there's one side of the story and then there's the
05:05other.
05:06So if he's got everyone worked up, like he said, he might call.
05:08Someone else might call and you don't want us showing up here a million times.
05:11So we want to just...
05:12You're in person.
05:13Hey, you're fine.
05:14That's all we need to do.
05:15Okay.
05:16Alrighty.
05:17Alrighty.
05:18Thank you.
05:19You're welcome.
05:20Have a good day.
05:21The officers have one simple task to wrap this case up.
05:24Simply confirm Patricia is okay with their own eyes.
05:27To do this, Officer Pelt decides to call the doctor's office where Patricia is apparently
05:32being treated.
05:33However, the call doesn't go as planned.
05:37Hi, this is Casey from Woods Cardiology.
05:39How can I help you?
05:40Hi, this is Officer Pelt with the Roseville Police Department.
05:44I'm just calling because I believe you have a patient in your office.
05:48by the name of Patricia Bennett and she has some family members that are concerned about
05:53her and are trying to just make sure she's there.
05:58Um, nope.
05:59Um, she's not here.
06:00Her...
06:01Actually, they might have got the date mixed up.
06:04Her appointment is, um, February the 13th.
06:07But I'm going to go ahead and ask a couple of my colleagues just to make sure, like, did
06:11she come here or anything like that.
06:13Right.
06:14Or is she planning on coming there?
06:16Nope.
06:17Um, she's not supposed to be in today.
06:19Nobody's, um, seen, like, she hasn't come in yet or anything like that.
06:23But we can watch out and contact you.
06:26Suddenly, things are starting to miss a line.
06:29John insists that he thinks Patricia is missing and now the only person living with her is lying
06:35about her current location.
06:37Something is definitely not adding up.
06:39So officers decide to speak to John again to further investigate the strange situation.
06:44I just don't get why my grandma would make her Facebook post saying she's at home.
06:50You guys show up and she's not there.
06:52And that was literally two minutes ago.
06:54As soon as you pulled away, she texted my dad back.
06:56There may be other circumstances that, uh, we're not aware of, or the family's not aware of.
07:00I hope I just had a fist talk.
07:01So what, your expectation is that this woman here is, who's your mother, is hiding your grandmother from you?
07:06Yeah.
07:07For what reason?
07:08For months.
07:09She's trying to take the money from her that you think is entitled to you?
07:11No, no.
07:12Okay, I don't know.
07:13I don't know.
07:14You're a grandmother.
07:15What?
07:16My grandma raised us.
07:17Raised you?
07:18Okay.
07:19Okay.
07:20So generally, yes, I'm really the same.
07:21In and out of our lives.
07:22Right.
07:23Okay.
07:24My mom was never in her life.
07:25And I just don't want my grandma to be passed away and she's collecting, or hopefully she's
07:29just hiding her because she's sick.
07:31And my grandma's not as long as I know.
07:32I really have a pissed off grandma that I'm missing.
07:34Or dead.
07:35Well, if she's dead, then, I mean, if she's got a body hiding somewhere, or has done away
07:42with her, I mean, and then trying to collect social security or whatever she receives,
07:46I mean, it takes some effort.
07:48My grandma has fraudulent charges on her.
07:53When was that?
07:54A couple years ago.
07:55A couple years ago?
07:56Okay.
07:57And what happened to those charges?
07:58I think my grandma decided to not pursue them.
08:00Okay.
08:01Totally.
08:02To have, like, to lock her up because that's her daughter, but...
08:05I'm not trying to get her in trouble, but why would you keep lying and lying and lying?
08:08But, so that's why I'm thinking that nothing's hiding up.
08:13My grandma just texted me again.
08:15Okay.
08:16Send the cops to my house again.
08:17Oh!
08:18My grandma's not at the house.
08:20John's claims are, frankly, terrifying.
08:23Not only does he suspect his mother of stealing from Patricia and using her money, but he thinks
08:28she may have even murdered her.
08:30Accusing your own mother of committing such a terrible act is something officers need to
08:35take seriously.
08:36However, there's no evidence to suggest that Carol had even harmed Patricia, let alone killed
08:41her, so these claims feel drastic, unfounded, and premature.
08:47Officer Jarebik seems to have felt these claims were over the top as well, so he would lead
08:52John to the station to file a missing persons report.
08:55Additionally, he wants to learn about John's history with Carol, and why he thinks she may
08:59have killed Patricia.
09:01Alongside John would be Carol's ex-husband TJ, who claimed to have important information
09:06that could help solve the case.
09:08Who's gonna record?
09:09You and I.
09:10Alright.
09:11Alright.
09:12So when did you physically last see your grandmother eye to eye?
09:15Probably after Halloween, beginning of November, before I went to North Carolina.
09:18I came back from North Carolina on Thanksgiving, so then it's here.
09:22Went there on Christmas, then it's here.
09:24I've been calling her and asking her to call me.
09:26I need to hear your voice, or have my mom have you call me, I need to hear your voice,
09:30or I'm gonna do a welfare check.
09:31I threatened that a couple weeks ago.
09:33Alright, yesterday I just cracked and finally called her then.
09:35And now you haven't had any voice contact with her since Thanksgiving?
09:39Somebody's been texting me off her phone or off her Facebook.
09:42I know it's not her just because of the words they use.
09:44It's not how my grandma talks.
09:46When was the last time you saw Carol?
09:48I thought I saw Carol, period?
09:50Not Carol.
09:51Um, Patricia.
09:52Oh, okay.
09:53I'm like every time I drop my daughter.
09:54Yeah, yeah, yeah.
09:55We're like Patricia.
09:56Patricia.
09:57Her mom.
09:58Her mom.
09:59It was around Halloween time.
10:00I did receive one text message the other day stating that she was, um, sorry for holding
10:06up Carol.
10:07Carol and my daughter were supposed to hang out because it was my birthday this weekend.
10:10Okay, around six o'clock I started texting her, I'm like, what the fuck's going on?
10:13You know, it's my birthday.
10:14We were supposed to be celebrating it and blah blah blah.
10:16You, Carol and Allison are supposed to be celebrating on Sunday your birthday.
10:20Right.
10:21And then, um, I get a text message from Carol's mom, but it doesn't read like Carol's mom,
10:26mom, but it says, sorry I'm holding her up, signing over the cars and giving her title
10:32to house and insurance stuff so she cab get that stuff fined Monday.
10:37It gets kind of, when Carol types, a lot of times it comes up kind of, uh, misspelled.
10:42It's because she don't wear glasses and stuff like that.
10:45The only contact that you've had with her was from a random message.
10:51And she said that she was with my aunt.
10:53So I did some research.
10:54I went there today and spoke with my aunt Carol.
10:56She hasn't spoke with my grandma since 2015.
10:59Remember how Carol said that Patricia moved over to live at her sister's house?
11:03Is Patricia here?
11:04No, she's not here.
11:05No, she has a sister.
11:06John visited that house.
11:08And Patricia's sister claimed that she hasn't seen Patricia in over five years.
11:14And she was messaging me today while we were there with the cops.
11:17Seeing that she was home and messaging my dad that she was home when we know she wasn't
11:20there because the cops were there.
11:21My dad screen shot them all and sent me those messages.
11:24Okay.
11:25Can you email those to me?
11:27Um, one thing I do know, and I mean, in this type of situation, I would hope it's more true
11:32than it is the other is, um, I've been, I mean, I have no, like I said, I've known Carol since
11:37I've been 20.
11:38I mean, like bold face, like you can show her like, here's a picture of you.
11:41And I have, here's a picture of you doing this and dah dah.
11:44It's not me.
11:46I mean, so she's always been a chronic, chronic liar, especially when she's off her meds.
11:53Um, she, cause she does take, um, lots of medicine longer than I think even we were together.
11:58I mean, you, you, I'm sure you can get her a list of medicines that she was taking, but
12:01I guess she, she lost, she lost her, um, therapist.
12:04So she has not had medicine for the last couple of months.
12:08And when that happens, things get kind of wonky with her.
12:13Any other conversations?
12:14And then calling the house phone, social media off of the messenger, calling her that way,
12:20texting her, nothing.
12:22And then on 12th of January, my mom texted me off her phone saying, Grandma B is sleeping,
12:29getting over ammonia here.
12:30I was like, have her call me.
12:32I need to hear her voice.
12:33She never does this.
12:34She always calls me.
12:35And there was no response.
12:38These interviews helped clarify why John would go as far as saying Carol had killed Patricia.
12:42She's been lying to them for months.
12:45Nobody's been able to see or speak to Patricia.
12:47And she happens to have a decent surplus of cash that the family has been pulling from.
12:52And remember, on top of all of that, Carol lied to police about Patricia's whereabouts at the doctor's office.
12:58The evidence makes it abundantly clear that Carol's not telling the truth and trying to hide something.
13:03And it's likely something horrifying.
13:05So police try and visit her house a third and final time.
13:09But this time, they aren't leaving without answers.
13:12Hello.
13:13Hi again.
13:14Hi.
13:15Is she here now?
13:16No, she's up at the Weber Cancer Institute getting her B12 shock.
13:20I'm sorry.
13:21I don't mean to be gripey with you, but...
13:22Where is she at?
13:23I just...
13:24We're just getting complicated information as well.
13:25The doctor's office that you told us she went to, she's not there.
13:28Woods Cardiovascular is where she goes.
13:30Dr. Tapazi was who treats her leukocytic white blood cell cancer.
13:33Not the white blood cell cancer.
13:35Okay.
13:36Because you said she was at Woods Cardiovascular.
13:38Because she has a lot of doctors.
13:40What's your daughter's name?
13:42It's Allison.
13:43Allison.
13:44Allison.
13:45Allison.
13:46Allison.
13:47Allison.
13:48It's a nice balloon.
13:50Can I see you?
13:52Thank you.
13:54I can't keep on the way.
13:55Woods Cardiovascular is where she's been treated.
13:58Uh huh.
13:59Yeah.
14:00It's where she's been treated for a long time with Dr. Tapazi.
14:03How did she get there?
14:04How did she get there?
14:05How did she get there?
14:06Her sister drives her, or I drive her.
14:08You didn't drive her today, so today...
14:10And sometimes they're named her across the street.
14:12How did she get there today, though?
14:13I believe her sister.
14:14How old are you?
14:15Her sister?
14:16Yes.
14:17The sister that lives in Warren?
14:18Yes.
14:19Okay.
14:20But you don't have your sister's number?
14:22I don't talk with my aunt or my uncle.
14:24Well, last night, she stayed over there.
14:27When the officer came here, she did not speak directly to her.
14:30Nope.
14:31She spoke to me.
14:32Okay.
14:33Because she was at my aunt's.
14:34She was here, yes, right before last.
14:35Is that your phone?
14:36She was here.
14:37Yes, that's the one.
14:38I just hate you.
14:39Listen, we just want to know where this lady is.
14:41I understand, but you guys are upsetting my daughter, and you're upsetting me.
14:44She doesn't look upset.
14:45That's fine.
14:46Because you don't hear her when she says when she leaked.
14:48I just went through a really bad domestic violence divorce situation and CPS off my butt for the past two times this year.
14:55We're not here, but that's not what we're here for.
14:57We're here to find out if your mom's okay.
14:59We've got a bunch of people who are concerned about her, and no one seems to know where she is.
15:03My son's father, my son, and his brother, which he's got his brother on high alert now, which his brother's wife was just here yesterday morning while my mom was laying on the couch to pick up $200 to do her tabs for the car for my son's car.
15:16Right.
15:17That's not going to hurt.
15:19Okay.
15:20Yeah.
15:21What?
15:22I mean...
15:23I can show you a picture of my daughter and my mom.
15:26She's sending messages telling everyone she's here.
15:29She's currently here.
15:30No, she's coming back here because she just called.
15:33She just called.
15:34Why don't you call her right now?
15:36While we're here.
15:37Yeah.
15:38And if she's on her way, then shortly we'll be able to resolve this.
15:41Can I turn this back onto her?
15:44Yeah.
15:45I'm actually...
15:46Oh.
15:47You want to put it on speakerphone?
15:53Will she answer you?
15:54I don't know.
15:55She went up there to get her B12 shot.
15:57Notice the drastic change in Carol's demeanor when she was directly asked to call Patricia.
16:03She's no longer deflecting, but rather soft-spoken and deliberate with her choice of words.
16:08Pay attention to Carol's body language as she's asked more of these direct questions.
16:13I know she's supposed to be calling John because John's the one that started this three, four nights ago threatening to call if she didn't talk to him.
16:25Yeah.
16:26If she didn't talk to him by noon the next day.
16:28I had her call before she went to Sam's club.
16:31Is it possible that she...
16:32Level 45, 1150.
16:33Okay.
16:34Is it possible then that she could just speak to John?
16:37Yeah.
16:38Directly.
16:39Directly.
16:40Yeah.
16:41Well then why hasn't she?
16:42Like, face to face.
16:43So that they're at ease.
16:45She's not answering.
16:46We're sending messages to each other.
16:47Do you want to call her again?
16:49She was just concerned.
16:50I'm sorry.
16:51Yeah.
16:52She was talking.
16:53You were talking.
16:54The phone was ringing.
16:55What did you say?
16:56Why can't your mother directly speak to John?
17:00Not through a message.
17:01Not through text.
17:02FaceTime.
17:03She can't.
17:04I don't have nothing to do with her and John though.
17:05Well, that's why we're here.
17:06I'm getting stuck in the middle of it.
17:07Yes.
17:08And so are we.
17:09So are we.
17:10And we have to figure...
17:11We have to see her.
17:12Do you want to just try to call her again?
17:13What's the doctor's office she's at?
17:15Which part are you?
17:16No.
17:17The Weber Cancer Center is behind Macomb Hospital.
17:22Coincidentally, Officer Pelt would call this doctor's office and yet again, Patricia was nowhere to be found.
17:29Officer Pelt knew something was off and decided to call in Detective Jarebex to question Carol officially and confront her about her growing list of lies.
17:38Oh.
17:39Crankson doesn't live here.
17:40Okay.
17:41It's the son of her.
17:42If this does go downhill and she starts making any admissions, let's stop.
17:45Get her to the station.
17:46We'll do a search warrant or whatever we have to do from the house.
17:49Do you want to do a consent to search first?
17:52So we can gather anything else first?
17:54Is she a consent?
17:55Yeah.
17:56Let's see.
17:57Well, let's start over there.
17:58She's at her.
17:59Let me go through the house.
18:00Did she go through the garage?
18:01I have not been through the garage.
18:02The cars.
18:03I just went through the house.
18:05This could go south.
18:06Okay.
18:07She's at her drinking.
18:08Okay.
18:09This is Detective Jarebex.
18:10Excuse me.
18:11Hi.
18:12Hi.
18:13Hi.
18:14So we're going to, I mean, if you don't mind, we'll get consent from you to search the house
18:19to see if there's anything that would lead us to think of who she may have went with to help you out and figure out where she went.
18:28Mm-hmm.
18:29She didn't, she didn't tell you otherwise, right?
18:31You're under the impression she was supposed to be with her sister.
18:34Yes.
18:35That's what she told you?
18:36Yep.
18:37Who, who lives in the house?
18:38I do.
18:39My mom and this little girl for her over.
18:41Has she done this in the past?
18:43My mom doesn't tell anybody where she, what she does.
18:46And your, but your son seemed pretty concerned that she wasn't here.
18:49My son John?
18:50Yeah.
18:51Yeah.
18:52But she tells you that she's with your sister, her sister.
18:55That's got me.
18:56That's got me.
18:57That's concerning, correct?
18:58That's got me worried.
18:59I'm not worried, but aggravated.
19:00She's not answering her phone calls.
19:02The people that she says she's with, she's not.
19:04Mm-hmm.
19:05That's got me aggravated.
19:07I won't feel right if I leave this house without looking for anything that can point us in the right direction.
19:12Mm-hmm.
19:13I want to do my job properly and make sure that, and I guarantee when she walks back in this door and she finds out that I searched for her, through her stuff to help try to find her, she's probably going to be okay with it because that's what most people would be okay with.
19:25I'll open up her bedroom door so you can see her stuff or whatever.
19:29I'll unlock the power for you so you can look at it and whatever, or whatever you want to do.
19:33I don't want to sign anything and get in trouble.
19:35Okay.
19:36There's all of her games.
19:38Okay.
19:39When your mom left, did she take, like, a toothbrush, a bag of clothes, like, she was spending the night anywhere?
19:46Well, she's a person.
19:48And her phone will do it.
19:50Yeah, does she normally sleep over people's house without, um...
19:53Well, she does, she did this time, and she has in the past, puzzles, right?
19:58So she does have, obviously, medical issues.
20:00Oh, yeah, she's had medical issues for a while.
20:02Okay.
20:03What I'm saying is that that's also, when we're looking at somebody being missing, it's concerning because anything can happen when she's had COPD, she's got, she's had a stroke already.
20:12I mean, you understand, she's...
20:14She's...
20:15She's...
20:16Out there.
20:17Farming.
20:18Digging.
20:19You don't seem very concerned.
20:20I'm trying to...
20:21I'm more concerned for your mom than you are.
20:22No.
20:23I am concerned.
20:25I just, I've talked to her and seen her in the past 24, 48 hours.
20:29And...
20:30But now...
20:31I'm frazzled because she's lied to me about talking to my...
20:34And I don't know why she would do that.
20:36So, I mean, we're concerned because your mom, your mom left, but she didn't even pack a bag to go, you know?
20:42For an overnight, she probably won't.
20:43Yeah.
20:44Even when she came out to my trailer that I would dream about.
20:47I mean, I thought I wouldn't go.
20:49So, for like an overnight, you don't pack like a, just a toothbrush, a change of clothes, underwear?
20:53She doesn't have any teeth?
20:54Obviously, something's going on here.
20:57We're...
20:58We're...
20:59Fairly certain something's going on.
21:01We need to start fresh.
21:03And we need to tell ya, we need you to tell us exactly what happened.
21:07Your story's not ending up.
21:08Your story is ending up.
21:09Okay, goes through it very quickly.
21:11You're extremely nervous.
21:12Well, yeah.
21:13I had the police here last night and today.
21:16Yeah.
21:17Carol, obviously, something probably happened to your mother, right?
21:21You know something that you're not telling us.
21:25That's apparent to us.
21:27We're trained investigators.
21:29We know when something's not right.
21:32And something isn't right.
21:34You have many people outside of you that are concerned about your mother's whereabouts.
21:40Where is she at, Carol?
21:43I don't know because she honestly said it was what she told her when she left here.
21:48The detectives haven't cracked Carol yet, but they're extremely close.
21:52If they can get verbal consent to search the property, they may be able to find clues to further solve the case or get Carol to reveal more information.
22:00All right, listen to me.
22:01A few things.
22:02You're lying a lot, okay?
22:03I'm now at a point where I don't believe anything you're saying, okay?
22:07Well, I've now confirmed another part of your story that's wrong.
22:10So you need to come clean now.
22:11Let me know where your mother's at.
22:12If she's in this house or in your garage that she passed away from natural causes or whatever it is, and you didn't want to do anything because maybe you needed some extra money for social security or whatever it is, we can get through it.
22:28But right now what you're doing is you're hiding somebody who's possibly dead, okay?
22:33Absolutely not.
22:35Carol, she hasn't been in this house in two months, three months.
22:38Yes, she has.
22:39She's got dirty clothes in the laundry room.
22:42She's got clean clothes hanging right there.
22:44Why does it have to do anything?
22:46That's neither here nor there.
22:48I don't, I mean...
22:50What's going on?
22:52What's going on?
22:53What's going on in your life?
22:54Her hairbrush is in the bathroom.
22:55Yeah, that's odd because she left for the night.
22:58Wouldn't she want to brush her hair in the morning?
23:01Carol was caught lying through her teeth multiple times.
23:04However, despite all of that, detectives couldn't get the consent to search her property.
23:09This leaves them in a tough situation.
23:11It's clear Carol is lying and hiding Patricia's whereabouts.
23:15But with no solid evidence, they can't be certain of Carol's involvement in the disappearance.
23:20But luckily, the police had a trick in mind involving Carol's current boyfriend, Ricky.
23:25Since Ricky has been living in the house with Carol, he has the authority to give consent to areas of mutual access.
23:31In this situation, that allows officers to search the majority of the property despite Carol's objection to the search.
23:38As long as Ricky doesn't have any involvement in Patricia's disappearance, he would have no reason to object to a search of the property.
23:45Hey, how are you doing, sir?
23:46How about yourself?
23:47Not too bad, are you Ricky?
23:48Yeah.
23:49Okay.
23:50Alright.
23:51Step back.
23:52Here's some of these detectives you want to talk with you.
23:53Detectives?
23:54Yeah.
23:55What's going on?
23:56Well, they'll talk with you.
23:58Okay.
23:59Um...
24:00When was the last time you saw Patricia?
24:03Like, physically saw her in person?
24:06Physically saw her, it's probably been about a month.
24:09Mom.
24:10Would you mind coming to the station with us?
24:12So we can just sit there and talk?
24:14It's just about...
24:15Well, we're trying to find...
24:16We want to find Patricia, but we're getting...
24:19She's not at her sister's house?
24:21No.
24:22She's cheating on me, she's lied on me, and...
24:27Who's lied on you?
24:28Carol.
24:29Carol.
24:30She's cheating on me, yeah.
24:31Because she's the one that told me that she was at her sister's house.
24:36Thankfully, it seems as though Ricky has no idea of the crimes.
24:40More importantly, he would agree to a search of the property, granting them access to most of the home.
24:45If they discover anything serious, they'll need a search warrant to investigate it further,
24:49but a cursory look around the property is now fully legal.
24:53They'd begin by searching her backyard and cars.
24:59Someone's gotta search the inside.
25:01Who's with her?
25:03Helped.
25:05Huh?
25:06Helped.
25:07Helped.
25:08Helpedaimer.
25:20He, hell's not.
25:22Helped credentials.
25:241800
25:2712
25:301200
25:32After coming up empty in the back yard, they check the last remaining spot, Carol's Garage.
25:45Boyfriend's here.
25:46I just want to look up here real quick.
25:47Hey.
25:48Can you open that?
25:49It should fit in here.
25:50I mean...
25:51Oh, bloody towels.
25:52Oh.
25:53All right.
25:54Bloody towels.
25:55There's in here.
25:56It's all...
25:57She's in there.
25:58She's in there.
25:59Oh.
26:00Oh.
26:01Oh.
26:02Oh.
26:03Oh.
26:04Oh.
26:05Oh.
26:06Oh.
26:07Oh.
26:08Oh.
26:09Oh.
26:10Oh.
26:11Oh.
26:12Oh.
26:13Oh.
26:14Oh.
26:15She's in the house.
26:16Oh.
26:17She's in there.
26:18She's in there.
26:19Open the house.
26:20Let's see.
26:21Hold on.
26:22I don't know.
26:23I don't know.
26:24I'm not just...
26:25What?
26:26Nah.
26:27Oh, he's looking.
26:28He's looking.
26:29I don't...
26:30Nah, nothing.
26:31I think we...
26:32I opened up that grave then and it's full of bloody towels and it stinks like a dead body.
26:34Are you kidding me?
26:35Swear to God.
26:36You have to get a search warrant.
26:37Huh?
26:38For what?
26:39If it's in there.
26:40Boat acre...
26:41For what?
26:42We're searching for the body.
26:43Yes.
26:44If there's...
26:45There's a bloody pillow in here.
26:46Yes.
26:47There's a bloody pillow in here.
26:48Ready?
26:49Yeah.
26:50There's a body in there.
26:51Yep.
26:52Where?
26:53You can see the legs from the far corner.
26:54Okay.
26:55Close the back.
26:56You sure?
26:57I'll go get the thing up there.
26:58Somebody said he was back here.
26:59He needs to see him.
27:00Everybody needs to see him.
27:01Exactly.
27:02That's a boyfriend.
27:03He just showed up.
27:04We've been looking for him.
27:05Yep.
27:06Oh, okay.
27:07He's in there.
27:08He's in there.
27:09He's in there.
27:10He's in there.
27:11He's in there.
27:12He's in there.
27:13He's in there.
27:14He's in there.
27:15Huh?
27:16For what?
27:17If it's in there.
27:18I just opened up a big plastic storage bin and smelled really bad.
27:30It was full of blood and towels and you can see a body in there.
27:33So that's kind of where we're at.
27:35All right.
27:36We hooked her.
27:37Bring her in.
27:38What about you?
27:39Everybody was saying people, the brothers, we need to find out what they were telling officers
27:42because they were saying he was like in the back back there yesterday and was coming
27:47and going.
27:48There is still moisture on the top of that.
27:52I open it and there's still moisture on the top.
27:54So that's not been in there long.
27:56And there was somebody we got to talk to over there.
27:58They said, hey, you know, the door was open yesterday and he was coming and going and
28:02then all of a sudden his car was gone.
28:04He said, this dude?
28:05Whose boyfriend is he?
28:06This is the girl.
28:07The Carol's.
28:08The mom.
28:09The daughter.
28:10I'd say we bring him in.
28:11We saw him.
28:12Not only had they found Patricia's deceased body in the storage bin, but the body still
28:18wasn't dry, meaning the murder couldn't have been more than two months ago as John originally
28:23suspected.
28:24This terrifying scene couldn't have made the truth more clear.
28:28Carol Ray had killed her mother and had been covering it up for weeks.
28:32However, she may not have been the only one involved in this.
28:36Ricky had been staying at the house for months now and the cops believe he had to have known
28:40about the murder if he'd been living beside it the entire time.
28:43With this in mind, police place Carol under arrest immediately and detain Ricky too.
29:10During Carol and Ricky's arrest, both would sit in a jail cell while they waited for detectives
29:14to arrive at the station.
29:16Multiple hours later, they would bring Carol in for her first interrogation.
29:35The goal for this interrogation is not to get Carol to confess because she obviously
29:40did it, but to determine a motive and figure out if Ricky was also involved.
29:45When I say something and it comes out wrong, or something like this, I don't want to
29:50use it because it's like an accident.
29:52I'm just trying to explain the truth and it will come out as the truth.
30:00I don't believe so.
30:02I can't give you advice, but if you want to tell your story, you can tell it how it is.
30:08I don't have to ask any questions.
30:09If you want to get it out, you can do that.
30:11At the same time, once I tell your rights, if you don't want to talk, you don't have to talk.
30:17That night, we were sleeping between 1 a.m. and 4 a.m. in the morning, and I heard loud
30:27baby.
30:28My daughter and I were sleeping on the couch.
30:31Anyway, there was a big crash and it sounded like someone was breaking through the glass window
30:38or breaking down the door in the living room.
30:40I cried like I was running down the hallway and I had my trigger finger on the trigger
30:45like an idiot.
30:46I went, not running, but walking fast down the hallway.
30:50and I hit with my right foot and it went off.
31:01I shook her shoulder and then I heard burglary and I screamed loud.
31:06I pulled her on the floor and I noticed that she had a better chance of coming out of her mouth.
31:13But I found somebody had broken the window or something like that.
31:18There was a huge, loud crash.
31:21If a suspect is highly emotional when recalling an event, they will often have trouble remembering
31:26certain details in that moment.
31:28You'll often notice the suspect unable to form full sentences and stuttering in their speech.
31:33But Carol shows none of this.
31:35While crying, she manages to form a detailed timeline of how she killed Patricia.
31:40This implies that her story of events may be inaccurate and the murder wasn't a mistake like she claims.
31:47Now that they've heard it, however, the detectives would be able to search for evidence that explicitly countered this story.
31:53And that didn't take them long at all.
31:55The very next day, they brought Carol back out of her cell and into the interrogation room again.
32:00Throughout this interview, see if you can spot the information that the detectives found specifically for this conversation
32:06and watch how they use it to break her story apart.
32:09Going up with what you said yesterday.
32:11I know you said you're walking down the hallway rather quickly if you heard a noise.
32:15And the gun and the rooker.
32:18You're walking the owls right there you tripped.
32:21And the gun hit your finger on the trigger.
32:24And the gun went off, correct?
32:26Okay.
32:27You saw your mom bleeding.
32:29And then...
32:30I thought you said you saw it coming out of her mouth or something.
32:35The cops are clearly trying to come across as understanding and compassionate to Carol.
32:47But if their main goal was to make her feel comfortable, they wouldn't have sat her in the corner of the room and positioned themselves between her and the door.
33:07They want to eventually make her feel so cornered and pressured that she lets go of the truth.
33:12So for now, this nice guy demeanor is a complete act for the detective to build rapport as he tries to get her to talk as much as possible.
33:20So after that happened, obviously you found your mom in the container in the garage.
33:30Now, obviously my concern is I kind of understand how she got there, but you gotta explain to me.
33:35Because to me it seems that you're back with everything that you could do this way or so.
33:39So can you walk me through?
33:41I understand.
33:42Obviously, panic.
33:43Everything's on ten.
33:44You're freaking out.
33:45And it's your mother you love, right?
33:49And so...
33:50Baby is waking up.
33:52Baby is waking up.
33:53Okay.
33:54Can you kind of walk me through the minutes after all that happened?
33:57Let me ask you if this was Rickie there that night.
34:00Yes.
34:01Why are you praying?
34:02What's all that's praying?
34:03I don't think you don't have to give him a little bit more, too.
34:06You choose the angel of Christmas.
34:08Okay.
34:09Remember an important part of this interrogation was to figure out if Carol's boyfriend, Rickie,
34:14was also involved to any extent.
34:17At the moment, Carol is claiming that he wasn't on the scene at all as they'd recently had a number of arguments.
34:22The cops would have a chance to interview him later on, but for now, there's one question regarding him that they just can't seem to get their heads around.
34:30It's okay.
34:31It's okay.
34:32So, what else is what we're going to do?
34:33Rickie wasn't there.
34:34Mm-hmm.
34:35Kind of goes off.
34:36Here's a baby waiting now.
34:38What?
34:39What happened?
34:40Did you meet your mom on the couch?
34:43Did you move her somewhere else?
34:45Okay.
34:46I understand that.
34:47Right, right.
34:48You're not her asleep.
34:49Obviously, we're operating under panic, right?
34:51I mean, I can picture myself in a situation of panic.
34:52You got your daughter there.
34:53Where did you move her?
34:54When?
34:55Where did you move her from the house to where?
34:56First.
34:57We found her in the garage.
34:58Was she moving anywhere before the garage?
34:59Directly in the garage.
35:00Directly in the garage.
35:01Yes.
35:02Yes.
35:03Yes.
35:04Yes.
35:05Yes.
35:06Yes.
35:07Yes.
35:08Yes.
35:09Yes.
35:10Yes.
35:11Yes.
35:12Yes.
35:13Yes.
35:14Yes.
35:15Yes.
35:16Yes.
35:17Yes.
35:18Did we move her from Turkey before looking at me for the garage?
35:20Directly in the garage?
35:21Okay, so this is where I'm concerned with Ricky, your mom.
35:26I can think of this just a hard detail we have pretty weird a chicken.
35:31If you keep your mom, there's no way to help.
35:34How would you identify yourself?
35:36You were getting Ricky right there.
35:37Did Ricky come over on help?
35:40You haven't come with me too.
35:43Are you afraid to tell us are you afraid of Rickys going?
35:48Carol remained completely silent for almost 30 seconds after she was asked this question.
35:59The cops are right to assume that she's scared, but it might not be for the reasons they think.
36:04She could be scared of Ricky and the consequences of implicating him in the crime,
36:09but she could also be terrified of the situation she's in.
36:12She's going to jail for a very long time.
36:15There's no escaping that anymore.
36:16And that's a scary reality for her.
36:19Whatever the reason is, though, the cops are still doing their best to give her a moral excuse
36:23or justification for what she did so she'll talk a little more.
36:27She panicked, and anyone would have done the same.
36:30The best thing she can do to make things right is to tell them exactly what happened.
36:35I mean, you know, people panic.
36:38People make mistakes.
36:40Yeah, I mean, you know what happens most often when you flee from an accident?
36:46You know, it happens all the time when people panic, right?
36:50Let's see if someone gets in a car and they smash into a car and they take off lepers and they're dying.
36:55I hear them on the news.
36:57And then the lies keep going and they're like,
36:59shit, I should have stayed, but I didn't, right?
37:01That's a mistake that you made.
37:03I should have stayed.
37:05I don't want to keep revisiting, but I have to.
37:07The cops are really focusing on Carol's inability to physically move Patricia to the garage,
37:19as to them, it was a clear sign that somebody else had to be involved.
37:24But at this point, they're not getting anywhere.
37:26Unfortunately, this isn't conclusive enough evidence to implicate anyone else.
37:30And it's not getting Carol to talk, but that's okay,
37:34because the detectives have one piece of evidence that they've been saving for this very moment
37:39that could prove without a doubt that everything Carol said so far has been a total lie.
37:45The other thing I wanted to bring up is,
37:48you know, she did a lot of cops here at your mom,
37:51and they found some puncture wounds in her neck,
37:56three puncture wounds.
37:57Not an old scar, but actual fresh puncture wounds in her neck.
38:02How did those get hurt?
38:03I don't know.
38:05You know?
38:06Mm-hmm.
38:10It's never was anything after the fact.
38:13Yeah.
38:13I'm not saying you were killing her, but, like,
38:16you know what I'm saying?
38:17I'm saying,
38:19I don't know, maybe she was suffering or anything like that.
38:24Mm-hmm.
38:24She's maybe when she finally felt the wrong one.
38:26She didn't have a different feeling in that.
38:30Because here's what I don't want to get caught on,
38:33is that once they tell us exactly how deep they were,
38:36if it was a cause of death or if it was a cause of death,
38:39we could be really...
38:40Yeah.
38:41So we have to get everything out here now.
38:43She's been trying to do something with those wounds
38:46that don't cause those wounds or anything like that.
38:49Mm-hmm.
38:49So I want you to think right now
38:51what could have possibly caused those puncture wounds in her neck.
38:54I don't know if she's been testing or anything like that.
38:58I don't care when you're thinking about the puncture wounds.
39:00A gun accidentally going off and killing someone.
39:15Unlikely, but believable.
39:17But two fresh, deep knife wounds that Carol hasn't mentioned a single time?
39:23It's going to be extremely hard to explain this one away.
39:27Not only does this imply the murder was completely intentional,
39:30but the fact that Carol hasn't mentioned it means that she knew that was the case
39:35and wanted to try to cover that part up.
39:38And again, I don't want to put words in your mouth.
39:41I don't want you to implicate anybody that's not implicated.
39:44That'll get you in more trouble.
39:45That'll get you in more trouble.
39:47But as we sit and investigate and continue to investigate
39:51in the days and weeks most to come,
39:54more things are going to come up.
39:56I'm pretty certain of it.
39:58Did you really know eventually what happened?
40:01Not to my knowledge.
40:02Did you really know your mom was in that?
40:06Not that I know if I didn't tell her.
40:09Did he say anything to you that would lead you to believe that he knew?
40:12Did you actually not have a mistake?
40:16Did you actually mean to kill your mother?
40:19No, I do not mean to kill my brother.
40:21Well, I'm not saying that.
40:23That's all I'm saying.
40:23I'm saying, do you understand where when these things can't be answered?
40:28That's kind of odd.
40:28I don't know if it happened.
40:30Can I ask you this?
40:31With going on in control,
40:33did you freak out after you shot her and she was still breathing
40:36and you wanted to make sure that at this point
40:39it smelled good for her to be like this?
40:41Absolutely not.
40:42I thought it would have gone.
40:43Absolutely not.
40:44Did you, maybe you kind of help her to feel like
40:48it sounds terrible in my life.
40:49Did she alive?
40:50I know my little bones.
40:53At this point, the interrogation has been going on for over an hour
40:57and Carol clearly doesn't intend to deviate from her story
41:01despite all the new evidence.
41:03The detectives are still no closer to obtaining a confession
41:06or any information about Ricky from her.
41:08So they figure they've got no choice but to speak to the man himself.
41:12So later that day, they bring Ricky in for an interview of his own
41:15and attempt to get the truth out of him,
41:18whatever it may be.
41:19Do you have any idea what's going on?
41:22No, I don't.
41:23You have nothing?
41:24Somebody at the house said something about Patty
41:27is not at her sister's house where Carol was telling me that she was at it.
41:33When was the last time you physically seen Patty?
41:36You guys calling her Patricia?
41:37Yeah, Patty, Patricia.
41:39My name is Connor, Patty.
41:43I've physically seen her about, I think it was like a month and a half ago.
41:47It was before Thanksgiving.
41:50How often do you stay here at the house during the time of this?
41:53Every day.
41:54I've been there except for, it was like the evening night from home.
41:58The dark house.
42:00So you've been staying there every day?
42:01Already, Ricky is being much more open
42:05and giving much better answers to all of the detective's questions.
42:08He also seems exceedingly calm
42:10and as though he's just trying to help the officers out.
42:13Right now, he definitely isn't coming across as a murder accomplice or a blackmailer,
42:18but there's still plenty of time for the cops to catch him out.
42:20What about Carol did she work?
42:22Did she have a job?
42:23Did she not go anywhere?
42:25What did she do with most of her days?
42:27Most of her days, keeping Allison busy, cleaning the house, doing what she can.
42:34She needs some major surgeries.
42:37Any financial issues with you or Carol or Patty or anything?
42:43No.
42:44Nothing?
42:45Carol took her on the bills.
42:46Do you know where she had no money to if she's not working?
42:48And she said she had a joint bank bail in her mouth.
42:52Carol been acting strange or suspicious to you or different?
42:57She's bipolar, so bitch.
42:59I always said that she was the world's greatest actress
43:02because I can't tell when she's being in fear or not.
43:06That's been a condition of bipolar.
43:08They're both liars.
43:11I've been caught in a lot of her webs before.
43:14I've been telling her she's been feeling more distant.
43:16Ricky, I mean, I don't really necessarily know you, obviously,
43:19but you seem pretty nervous to me.
43:22What's going on?
43:23Is there something you're nervous about?
43:25I mean, I'm nervous about anything.
43:27Where did you sleep in Alice's bedroom?
43:30Mostly in the bedroom.
43:31Carol?
43:32Carol's bedroom.
43:34Where did, um...
43:35Sometimes I'm a coach.
43:37Definitely a coach.
43:38Where did Alice live in the sleep?
43:40Mostly in her bedroom.
43:41Let me ask you about the garage.
43:44You ever go in the garage?
43:46Yeah.
43:46Ever?
43:47Never.
43:48When's the last time you think you've been in the garage or on the strangers?
43:52Um, I think we went to go look for a screwdriver.
43:58She's, uh, hanging out.
44:00I think it was really separate.
44:02It was been for the weeks.
44:04Did she have you go and move forward?
44:06Or did you go?
44:07Yeah, or was she going to wake up?
44:08Compared to Carol's interrogation, this one seems extremely laid back and relaxed.
44:14It feels as though there's a big chance Ricky genuinely just doesn't know what's going on.
44:19However, the cops do pick up on the fact that he's a little nervous.
44:23He's finding it hard to look the detectives in the eyes, and he seems a little soft-spoken.
44:27So, to clear things up fully, they decide to put the pressure on big time to see if he breaks.
44:33Ricky, we got a problem.
44:35We got a real big problem.
44:37I think you know what it is.
44:38And I think you need to be honest and upfront with us.
44:41So, we're going to give you the opportunity now.
44:43Tell us what really happened.
44:46That's what happened.
44:48What happened?
44:49What I told you.
44:51I'm not talking about the little details we've been asking.
44:55I'm talking about with Patty.
44:57Patty, I don't know.
44:58She's been under assist herself as far as I know.
45:00We know Patty's deceased.
45:03Patty's got a gunshot wound to her.
45:04And she was found in a tote in that garage.
45:08So, you have to tell us everything you know so you don't communicate her something anymore.
45:11I mean, I guess you're hidden.
45:13Because here's the thing, Ricky.
45:15There's things, there's investigative tools we have.
45:18We're going to find out exactly when she died, where you were when she died.
45:23Which, I'm betting you were in that house.
45:25And you know exactly what happened.
45:27I'm not saying you had a problem with her.
45:35I'm not saying that at all.
45:37I'm saying you know something.
45:40I don't.
45:41I don't know anything.
45:43I swear.
45:44You don't know this woman.
45:46This woman, Carol.
45:47She has fucked up my head.
45:49She has cheated on me behind my back without me knowing about it.
45:55The only way I found out about it was tripping over stuff.
46:00Finding it on accident.
46:02Her showing me something on her phone.
46:04And then all of a sudden, I love you too, baby, pops up on her phone.
46:08Why are you withing her?
46:09We went to the film scene this year.
46:11Trying to make things work.
46:13Because I love her.
46:14I love the house.
46:15And as soon as she's my home.
46:18I really do.
46:19This is not the reaction a guilty person would give in this position.
46:23He's never defensive and he never gets annoyed.
46:26He just tries to explain things exactly as they are.
46:28He's not upset that he's been caught.
46:30It feels like he's upset that he'd ever be accused of this.
46:33He also gave a few pieces of information that could be backed up by the detectives.
46:37Such as the fact that Carol had been cheating on him.
46:39And that they'd been in therapy.
46:41In just five minutes, detectives went from assuming him to be the main accomplice.
46:46To completely discounting him as a suspect.
46:48Carol, however, completely stayed in the spotlight.
46:51And it was eventually assumed that she acted alone and with intent in Patricia's murder.
46:57It was determined that Carol killed Patricia all the way back in November.
47:01And hid her body for roughly two months before John had caught on to her act.
47:05Although Carol never verbally confessed to the crimes.
47:08She was charged with first degree murder.
47:10Felony use of a firearm.
47:12And larceny of $20,000 or more.
47:15She faces life in prison.
47:17Ricky was let go with no charges.
47:19And I'll see you next time.
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