- 5 months ago
In this episode of India First, the programme examines the Monsoon Session of Parliament, which experienced significant disruptions with the Lok Sabha operating for only 37 of 120 scheduled hours.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Good evening. There should be no work, no pay.
00:03And there's a young member of parliament, an independent member of parliament.
00:07He's breaking ranks in parliament.
00:09He's protesting against these disruptions in the legislative work.
00:13He says legislative work has to be carried out.
00:16Umesh Bhai Patel is an independent MP from Damanandiu.
00:20He's staged a unique protest in parliament.
00:22He's carrying placards, urging the speaker to dock salaries of MPs,
00:27of elected representatives for not letting parliament function.
00:31And is it high time lawmakers do the job they've been elected to parliament for
00:37or lose their pay?
00:43When everyone was in there, that's why you passed the bill.
00:47And you're telling us, you're all going to find a point of warning.
00:53He's not saying the subject.
00:57Showdowns marred the sunset session.
01:1330% work, 70% disruptions.
01:16Dock MPs pay, demands MP.
01:40Sunset stalled while the public pays.
01:43The parliament paralysis is the big focus on India first.
01:57Look at the report card of the members of parliament in the current monsoon session.
02:05Of the 120 hours that they decided they will work, only 37 hours of work was done in Lok Sabha.
02:12Of the 120 odd hours in Rajya Sabha, the record is slightly better.
02:1741 hours and 15 minutes of work.
02:19So where does productivity stand?
02:21At less than 40%.
02:23About 31% in Lok Sabha, 38.8% in Rajya Sabha.
02:26Imagine your child scoring 31% or 38% marks in today's day and age.
02:32Will they be able to survive?
02:33Will they be able to flourish?
02:35Except there is no merit that people are looking at.
02:39The more they disrupt, the more they think their ranks will go higher.
02:43So is there merit in this young lawmaker saying enforce no work and no pay?
02:47He joins me on this special broadcast.
02:49I'm Gaurav Savan.
02:50As always, let's get started with the headlines on India first.
02:54External Affairs Minister Dr. S.J. Shankar meets Russian President Vladimir Putin as India stresses
03:04India-Russian ties improve amidst Trump's tariff threats.
03:09Both sides to pay special attention to the current and future avenues of promoting bilateral cooperation even further.
03:17Opposition's Vice Presidential pick Sudarshan Reddy files his nomination papers.
03:27Big India block show of strength.
03:29Sonia Gandhi, Malikar Jun Kharge, Rahul Gandhi, DMK, TMC, Uddhav Sena accompanies Sudarshan Reddy.
03:36Delhi top cop removed a day after attack on Chief Minister Rekha Gupta.
03:471992 batch IPS officer Satish Golcha appointed Delhi Police Commissioner.
03:57Vijay's mega rally in Madurai.
03:59The TVCAP boss rules out any alliance with the DMK or the BJP says will not enter a slave alliance.
04:15Big India Today Impact Kerala Youth Congress Chief resigns amidst harassment charges.
04:22Writer Hani Bhaskaran tells India Today her friend also faced harassment.
04:27So, she decided to expose the leader.
04:35So, adjourning the Lok Sabha Synodai, Lok Sabha Speaker Ombirla asked Members of Parliament to seriously introspect the sloganeering, the displaying of placards, the planned deadlock in-house.
04:47He said this hurts parliamentary decorum.
04:49He lamented the kind of language that was being used, the conduct that was seen during this monsoon session, which he insisted were not in accordance with the dignity of the temple of democracy.
05:02The statistics are worrisome.
05:04Of the 419 starred questions, only 55 could be taken up for oral answers.
05:11MPs had decided they would have discussions for 120 hours, but they barely could work 37 hours this session.
05:18So, one young frustrated MP, he's broken ranks to say enough is enough.
05:23Umesh Bhai Patel is an independent MP from Daman and Deu.
05:27He says it's time to implement.
05:29No work, no pay.
05:31The monsoon session started with hope, continued with uproar and ended in a washout.
05:58The 18th Lok Sabha's monsoon session ran from July 21st to August 21st, 21 sittings in all, where 126 working hours were scheduled.
06:19But what actually happened?
06:21Barely 35 to 40 hours of business.
06:24A banner at the parliament summed it up.
06:33Apologize, ruling party.
06:35Apologize, opposition.
06:39Independent MP from Daman and Deu accused both sides of wasting the time and money of 144 crore Indians.
06:48The MP also demanded recovery of MP's salary for the wasted session.
06:53From tax amendments to online gaming, 26 bills were cleared.
07:18Many without even a few minutes of debate.
07:26The opposition zeroed in on behalf of the voter revision issue, demanding a debate, stalling business both inside and outside the House.
07:34The government got 18 hours of Sindhu debate and there was the political storm over the sudden resignation of the vice president.
07:50But the people of the country only got disappointment.
07:57From Lok Sabha's speaker Om Birla to Rajya Sabha Deputy Chairman Hari Vansh, the chairs expressed deep regret, urging parties to reflect on the wasted session.
08:08Another disruptive sunset session.
08:30And the question remains, is parliament turning into just another stage for political theatre instead of being the temple of democracy?
08:38Biarra reports, India today.
08:41So is parliament turning into a theatre of the absurd instead of being the temple of democracy, where lawmakers sit together and deliberate how to take this country forward?
08:53Joining me on India first is the man of the moment, Umesh Bhai Patel, Independent Member of Parliament, Lok Sabha from Daman and Deu.
09:00Umesh Bhai Patel, you are a young first-time MP. What prompted you to carry out this protest? What was the protest? What was the protest? What was the protest?
09:12Actually, you will see that when it started the monsoon story, the whole story of the whole story came to the house.
09:22I was the one that did, as my friend of the protest, I was saying, was the protest.
09:34And I was telling you, the protest, the protest but the protest, the protest, the protest was the protest.
09:40It was the protest.
09:44The protest was the protest against the protestes that I had.
09:5014 bill produced by 12 bill passed by
09:56you also don't trust the church
09:58yes, so you are saying that this is a waste of the ego
10:02can you explain the ego clash in parliament and in your appreciation
10:08meaning in your dhrishnitiy, whether they are the sattapaksh or the vipaksh
10:12why are they not doing the church in that moment
10:15which is affecting our common people's lives
10:19so why is the parliament not functioning?
10:21who is responsible for this?
10:22government or the opposition?
10:24sattapaksh or vipaksh?
10:25who is the responsible for this disruption?
10:29you know that the sattapaksh is to take the sattapaksh
10:33and the sattapaksh is to take the sattapaksh in a way to take that sattapaksh
10:39but if you have seen day 1st, this is a story of Sri Phangamay
10:43and I want to tell you about this
10:45there is the story of洗ik 아이�
10:51yes, so you can see the sattapaksh
10:54in this morning you will be able to take the sattapaksh
10:56so if you have to take a bath
10:58foreign
11:28foreign
11:56Those are very strong words, sir. You say it's an ego clash between the government and the opposition, neither wanting to buckle or bend in the interest of the people of this country.
12:06But in your view, why should every member of parliament's salary be cut? Let the salary of only those who disrupt the proceedings be cut. Otherwise, won't this be collective punishment?
12:19Why should everyone be cut? Why should everyone be cut?
12:27In the parliament, there was every one of those who are living in the parliament.
12:32Every person was living.
12:35So, the punishment was to get someone else.
12:38So, the other people who are talking about innocent people,
12:44I have to say that we will be able to get a speaker to say that sir our
12:53our
12:55session is going to go.
12:56How many people are going to go to the speaker?
13:01It means they are saying that they are going to go to the speaker or to go to the speaker
13:06or to the speaker.
13:07But no one has been going to go to the speaker.
13:10foreign
13:40So no session, no salary. That should be the principle you say that should be adopted.
13:52But BJP is currently in power. When BJP was in opposition, then leaders of Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha, late Sushma Swaraj and late Arunjetli, they would say disruptions are legitimate tactics in a democracy.
14:06That time Congress called it mockery of democracy.
14:08In the meantime, Pradhanaventuri Dr. Manmohan Singh saw it that they were doing the best, when the result of the fight was not.
14:16So if you have a BJP or Congress, when both of them say that they say one thing, and one thing is the second thing?
14:25Look, this is our LLPTantra. And our SADAN.
14:29That SADAN's suffering to maintain our SADAN's sacrifice.
14:35foreign
14:41foreign
14:47foreign
14:53foreign
14:59foreign
15:03foreign
15:15foreign
15:19foreign
15:21foreign
15:25foreign
15:31for young MPs to learn the art of debate or parliamentary proceedings
15:36because all their witnessing is disruptions and adjournment.
15:40So how do you take these principles?
15:42I am saying that this time you will see that many young people have come to listen to this.
15:47And who will you learn from this?
15:49You will also learn from our families from our home.
15:54So if we don't get the good atmosphere then we will not get the good atmosphere.
16:01We have no debates or past politics.
16:04The new generation is going to be what we will learn from this.
16:07These will go into a path.
16:09They will learn from this.
16:11So that they will say that to us the fact that we will change the rights of our families
16:15to change our lives.
16:17We will need to change the tribe from our families.
16:20We will take a different path to them.
16:22We will need to change the slings of our families.
16:25The people who have to change the interest of their families.
16:29foreign
16:57I mean are you a lone voice or are the other young MPs who want the parliament to function and in your view what's the way forward, will you bring in a private member's bill, will youngsters unite, younger MPs unite to say no work, no pay?
17:18I mean I will try and do that because today I know that it starts starting a long time.
17:25The sun also doesn't look like the sun, but the sun is not like the sun.
17:29I will try and talk about our sandals and I will not say that I will tell you.
17:36I have talked about the sun and the sun and the sun, I have talked about the sun.
17:43foreign
18:13He says younger MPs will unite.
18:39He is now starting what he sees is a movement.
18:43To ensure no work, no pay and he is confident other MPs are with him.
18:48Lord Denning, a former judge in the House of Lords, in one of his judgements asked,
18:53Is a man entitled to be paid, entitled to his wages for his work when he and others is doing his best to make that work useless?
19:04Surely not. Wages are to be paid for services rendered, not for producing deliberate kiosks.
19:11Is that what our honourable lawmakers are doing? Producing deliberate kiosks?
19:15Are our lawmakers above the law or should they follow a certain norm?
19:22And India first. Charan Singh Safra represents the Congress party.
19:25The BJP chose not to be a part of this discussion.
19:28In a moment we hope to be joined by Chakshu Roy, head Legislative and Civic Engagements of the PRS Legislative Research.
19:34Professor Anand Ranganathan is a very well respected political analyst, joins us on this show as the senior journalist Aarti Jairat.
19:41Charan Singh Safra, let's begin with politics. Should no work, no pay actually be implemented?
19:47Look at the costs, sir. 1.5 crore per hour for Lok Sabha to function. 1.1 crore for Rajya Sabha.
19:54And these are older figures and less than 31% work output. Shouldn't this embarrass our honourable lawmakers, sir?
20:00Gaurav, I acknowledge the concern of the Member Parliament, Mr. Umesh Patel.
20:07And truly he said that taxpayers' money should not be wasted.
20:14Parliament is, you know, a temple of democracy where largely there should be a debate, discussion, dissent and decision making.
20:22But unfortunately, the government over here, who is largely responsible to conduct a parliament session, you know, they have a very restricted mind and they don't want difficult questions.
20:34They treat dissent as anti-national and treason also.
20:38Government herself was not interested in continuing with this session.
20:42They just wanted to bulldoze the issues.
20:45However, the opposition parties, they had their own issues, which was earlier discussed in the Business Advisory Committee also.
20:52We wanted to discuss the Jammu Kashmir statehood, the women atrocities, the SIR.
20:57Then two days were, you know, they went in the sudden resignation of Mr. Jagdeep Dhankar.
21:04Before that, at least five days were, you know, just wasted by the government when the opposition was demanding a discussion on Operation Sindhu.
21:13So there are so many things which have happened in this session and in earlier session also.
21:18Let me remind you that government never wanted to discuss on Manipur.
21:22They literally wasted the entire session not discussing anything on Manipur, then electoral bonds, then even the NEET issue.
21:30They never wanted to discuss these issues.
21:32The government should be sincere.
21:34They have the larger responsibility to run the government.
21:37Opposition will coordinate with them.
21:39But when the government doesn't want to come into the…
21:41But is the opposition coordinating with the government?
21:43You're saying that the government doesn't want the house to function.
21:47Professor Anand Ranganathan, MPs had themselves decided 120 hours for discussion.
21:53Output, mere 37 hours in Lok Sabha.
21:56Slightly better, 41 hours and 15 minutes in Rajya Sabha.
21:59So the past percentage and, you know, you're a professor.
22:03You tell me, if one of your awards scored 31% marks or 38% marks, would you promote them to the next class?
22:11Would you think that they're performing?
22:16Good evening, Gaurav.
22:17And good evening to my fellow panelists.
22:19Pahli baat toh aap yeh Mr. Umesh Patel ka DNA test kar hao.
22:22Yeh Indian ni hai ka?
22:24First things first.
22:26No, but you know, excellent parliamentarians like Mr. Umesh Patel are the exception, not the non-Gaurav.
22:32Because the sad fact is, we are cursed with electing either louts or luddites.
22:38I'm afraid I have a different take to what Mr. Patel has said.
22:41Because docking the salary isn't going to cut it.
22:44These guys earn a million times more than what their official salaries are.
22:48It's like a water of a duck's pack.
22:50A better solution is, every time an MP or an MLA disrupts the house, his term should be truncated by four months.
22:57Three disruptions and he will have one year less to loot his constituency.
23:02What better way to turn a delinquent into eloquent?
23:05Budget, monsoon, winter.
23:07Gaurav, every parliamentary or assembly session is the same old story.
23:11Every year, every term.
23:12No one is interested in finding a solution.
23:14And this cuts across party lines, across legislative assembly, state or central.
23:18I mean, of course, what is happening in the parliament is shameful and the opposition parties are to be blamed for it.
23:23But are you telling me that the BJP hasn't indulged in the same?
23:26What does it even have to go back to the UPA era to find instances of the BJP creating ruckus, indulging in vandalism, forcing adjournment?
23:32No, but sir, you are blaming the opposition.
23:34Charan Singh Sapra very rightly said, it's the responsibility of the government to ensure the house functions.
23:38The government should bring the opposition on board.
23:40Isn't the government failing in its responsibility?
23:42Before I bring in Aarti Jairat, quickly respond to this point, sir.
23:45That the government has to ensure the house functions.
23:48But how can the government ensure if the other person wants to play the linkment?
23:52If they rush to the well of the house and exit the house, the government cannot physically prevent them from leaving the house.
23:57That's why I say, these docking the salary isn't going to work, Gaurav.
24:01You have to truncate their term.
24:03That will put the heebie-jeebies in there.
24:06Okay, Aarti Jairat, when Lok Sabha sits only for 37 hours of the planned 120 hours,
24:11does it reflect failure of the government?
24:15Or does it show an attitude of the opposition?
24:17Is it failure of floor management and outreach?
24:20In your appreciation, why are we going so wrong in terms of not getting the kind of output from our parliament
24:26that we, a nation of 140 crore Indians deserve?
24:30You know, Gaurav, good evening to you.
24:34Thank you for having me on the panel.
24:36But I just want to say that, you know, parliament is a reflection of the state of our politics.
24:43The fault lies not in parliament.
24:46The fault lies in our politics, which has become increasingly confrontational,
24:51with no space at all for discussion, dissent, debate or anything.
24:56And that is playing out in parliament, which, after all, is the nerve center of democracy.
25:01So, you know, it's all very rare to criticize parliamentarians, criticize parliament,
25:06say you're not doing enough work and so on, so forth.
25:08But until we rectify, look at the kind of speeches that are given at election rallies.
25:14They are so confrontational, they are so full of vitriol and hate from both sides,
25:21whether it's the opposition or it's the, you know, the ruling party.
25:25But I'm not blaming one or the other.
25:27I'm saying both are equally responsible.
25:30If that's going to be the state of your politics,
25:32obviously it's going to play out in disruptions in parliament
25:35and there's going to be an impasse every day.
25:37You know, those old days when parliamentarians, you know,
25:41used to meet each other informally.
25:43And in fact, Central Hall was one of those places where parliamentarians could meet informally.
25:49And a lot of things were sorted out in Central Hall, you know,
25:54kind of, you know, some sort of compromises were reached and so on.
25:57But Central Hall is completely vanished in the new parliament.
26:00So there is no place at all for MPs to meet informally,
26:06to have a chat, to become friends rather than, you know, opponents,
26:11which is what they are in parliament today.
26:13But are there opponents only in parliament or during election rallies?
26:19Because we see them partying together.
26:21We see them at each other's weddings and that's very nice.
26:23You know, at their family weddings, everyone comes together.
26:26And all that is wonderful. All that is wonderful.
26:29But at least in the interest of the nation.
26:31But I have seen, Gaurav, Gaurav, I have seen, for instance,
26:35you know, weddings, you know, of BJP leaders' children,
26:40there are no Congress people.
26:42Or of Congress leaders' children and there are no BJP people.
26:46This was never like that.
26:48But you know, there are so many pictures of Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
26:51But now I find that, you know, this is the new thing that has crept in.
26:55I don't want to name individual MPs.
26:57And that's what I'm saying. It's become just…
26:58It's become just…
26:59You know, a certain opposition leader.
27:02Pardon?
27:03I don't want to take names per se, Anand Ranganathan.
27:06But ma'am, I want you to weigh in on that also.
27:08A certain opposition leader who'd like really campaigned extensively
27:12against the Prime Minister when he was Chief Minister of Gujarat
27:16in more ways than one.
27:17When somebody in his family got married, the Prime Minister was there.
27:20Another opposition, another leader from Bihar,
27:23when there was a wedding in the family, you know, leaders were there.
27:27So, privately, they're there.
27:29Publicly, they're virtually at war.
27:31But, you know, the point, Anand Ranganathan…
27:33Okay, Anand, you wanted to come in on this point
27:35and then I want to bring Aarti Janath on the point you made
27:37and Charan Singh Sapra also.
27:38Respond, Anand.
27:39I don't think Aarti Ji is quite correct about the acrimony between Congress
27:43and the BJP away from the Parliament because half the Congress guys have joined the BJP.
27:48No, but to be serious, the fact of the matter is you saw during the high tea sessions,
27:54in fact, the late Sitaram Yachuri Ji, you have the communists fighting the BJP on the social media
28:00and there they were having a hearty laugh showing, you know, their 36 teeth.
28:04So, the fact of the matter is there is camaraderie between politicians cutting across.
28:08You just saw in the aftermath of Operation Sindhur,
28:11how the bunch of parliamentarians cutting across party lines went away to various countries to exhibit…
28:17And hang God for that.
28:18Yes.
28:19Yes, absolutely.
28:20So, there is camaraderie.
28:21It's only in the parliament that they believe they have to behave like delinquents
28:25and I'm afraid docking the salary, as I said, is not a solution.
28:28You have to hit them where it hurts.
28:30Curtail their terms.
28:31Okay.
28:32Chanan Singh Sapra, would that work if MPs disrupt parliament, start curtailing their term?
28:39See, I feel who is going to decide which parties at fault, whether the ruling parties at fault
28:45or whether the opposition parties at fault.
28:47Basically, then we have to decide the structure, what is going to be the format of this decision.
28:53As Madam Aarti Jairat was talking, it just reminded me of what is happening in parliament nowadays,
28:59the kind of narrative or the kind of level to which the parliament discussions have gone.
29:04It reminds me of Ramesh Viduri, the way he criticised and what he called Danish Ali
29:10and the way the Prime Minister himself, he told Renuka Chaudhary, Supurnakha,
29:17or maybe he criticised his predecessor, Dr. Manmohan Singh, by saying that he wears a raincoat while having a bath.
29:24This is the kind of level to which Bhartiya Janta Party and Narendra Modi himself has got the parliament discussion too.
29:31That's why this issue is coming and that's why the authoritarian nature of Bhartiya Janta Party,
29:37that is basically distorting and disturbing the entire process of parliament, the entire discussion of the parliament.
29:44But okay, Prof. Anand Ranganathan is smiling because doesn't that cut both ways, Prof. Ranganathan?
29:52No, that is what I meant. If the BJP rightly so has used slurs and abuses,
29:58then it is not a one-way street and the good gentleman from the Congress knows it.
30:02I mean, there have been ample instances. The point is, the good independent MP has brought a solution.
30:07We must welcome it. But I am afraid it's not going to cut it. That is what I am saying.
30:11If we really want to tackle it seriously, then we have to hit them where it hurts.
30:15Aarti Jairat, you think that will work? You start not just docking their salary but start curtailing their term.
30:23And there is a privilege, you know, there is a committee. Let that committee decide.
30:28You know, I think Anand Ranganathan really needs to attend parliament a little bit.
30:33And maybe then he will get some idea of how parliament functions.
30:36He is sitting in the library and he is a professor. He has no idea what happens in parliament.
30:41I have covered parliament for 25 years now. So I have seen how the dynamics operate.
30:46I just want to say a few things. Firstly, I think his example of Operation Sindhu is completely, you know, not the right example to give at this point of time.
30:57Operation Sindhu was a very unusual, you know, time when the nation was under threat.
31:02And I think everybody responded unitedly to a threat to our national integrity and our nationalism.
31:09Absolutely.
31:10And I think that's absolutely fine. And that is why cutting across party lines, people went abroad to carry that message.
31:17So I don't think that's the same thing. Right.
31:20But, you know, I think what we need to understand is that there is a bitterness and a hatred that has crept into our politics, which I have not seen over the last many, many years in my decades as a political journalist.
31:36I have not seen, you know, I remember in parliament, even when they were political opponents.
31:43But, you know, when they spoke, they referred to each other when they spoke to each other with respect.
31:49You know, Chandrasekhar would call Vajpay Gurudev, although they were diametrically opposite in their political beliefs.
31:57That kind of respect and, you know, kind of acceptance is missing today.
32:03There is something wrong in our politics.
32:06And that is why parliament has become dysfunctional.
32:09And, you know, you can dock anybody's salary or anything.
32:12Firstly, I don't think you can put a price on democracy.
32:15I don't think you can say that I will cut somebody's salary or I will cut somebody's term.
32:20How do you put a price on democracy?
32:22Yes, we're paying very heavily for our democracy.
32:24But at the end of the day, I think we need to understand that democracy is the only system that works in India.
32:30And we need to get our politics back on course.
32:34Maybe then parliament will start functioning.
32:37Okay.
32:38Prof. Anand Ranganathan wants to come in before I bring in Charan Singh Sapra.
32:41Go on.
32:42Go on, Professor.
32:43Make your point, sir.
32:44You know, vandalism, ruckus and anarchy is not democracy.
32:47Be that as it may, I think Ms. Jairat makes a valid point.
32:50In fact, if you only have to look at the discussion that happened during the Indus Water Treaty when it was signed,
32:55most of the criticism, Gaurav, of Jawaharlal Nehru were by the congressmen.
33:00It is incredible.
33:01In today's day and age, one would be hard put to find any dissent from within the party's rank, either BJP or Congress.
33:08So, of course, she's right.
33:10We have lost out.
33:11And I think that's a great point.
33:13But we need to regain that.
33:15Yes.
33:16And how?
33:18The question is how?
33:20Okay.
33:21And in your view, how before I bring in Charan Singh Sapra once again,
33:23because it's a very interesting debate.
33:25I don't want to break a chain of thought.
33:26Go ahead, ma'am.
33:28Me?
33:29No, I really…
33:30I am at a loss on how to break this, you know, this chain
33:33because this is why our parliament is so dysfunctional today
33:37because our politics has become so, so bitter.
33:40Okay.
33:41Charan Singh Sapra, when in power…
33:43How do we bring it back where people can call each other Gurudev
33:46even though they are on different sides of the political spectrum?
33:50Okay.
33:51When in power Dr. Manmohan Singh said disruption of parliament by the opposition
33:56was actually a grave violation of the norms of parliamentary office.
34:00Then, finance minister, former finance minister of India, P. Chidamra,
34:04he said every day that passes without parliament meeting and transacting business in a day
34:08adds a black spot for democracy.
34:11Now, and when the BJP was in opposition, they'd say even protesting is a form of parliamentary democracy.
34:19Nobody's practicing what they're preaching, sir.
34:21How does that change?
34:23I feel the current discourse where there's a lot of bitterness which we see in the discussion itself,
34:30this bitterness has to reduce and the larger role should be played by the ruling party,
34:35the speaker and the chairman.
34:36We have thousands of instances of the earlier parliament sessions
34:41whereby the speaker has taken the initiative to call all the leaders of the opposition parties to have discussion.
34:47Why to go far away even in this discussion of Operation Sindhu, did the speaker, did he not call all the leaders of opposition parties and discuss
34:58and they mutually decided on a date when the discussion should start?
35:01So, it largely depends on the ruling party, the speaker and the chairman, how they want to continue the discourse.
35:07But doesn't that happen each time?
35:09One moment, let me complete.
35:11If the speaker or the chairman is always under the pressure from the bosses, like we saw the case of Jagdeep Dhankar
35:18when he accepted a move from the opposition leaders, what happened to him?
35:23He had to resign within a couple of hours.
35:26The ministers attended his 12.30 meeting of BSE, but they did not attend the 4.30 meeting and finally 7.30 he had to resign.
35:33So, this kind of pressure which is created by their leaders, by their bosses, it doesn't allow the parliamentary system to work.
35:41The chairman could not work as per his desire.
35:44Similarly, it happens with the speaker.
35:46They are under continuous pressure from the prime minister or whatever it is to be said.
35:52Okay.
35:53Professor Anand Ranganathan disagrees with you and wants to comment.
35:55Go on, sir.
35:56No, no.
35:57I keep it very simple.
35:58Look, we've had this enchanting, wonderful debate where you are the speaker.
36:01Now, supposing one of us created ruckus and left and abused and everything.
36:06Would you call that person again?
36:08The fact remains, it was decided whether it's the government, you know, treasury benches or the opposition benches.
36:18They sat together and decided that they will work 140 hours.
36:21They will devote 140 hours.
36:23But then they, you know, left in 37 hours.
36:26So, it's, you know, well and fine and you must blame the speaker and whoever else, it's their right of the opposition.
36:31But as a taxpayer, my question is, if everyone has decided you will work for 140 hours, why haven't you worked for 140 hours?
36:39That's the question to the government, that's the question to the opposition.
36:42Because it's your money and mine, Aarti Jairat and Professor Ranganathan, you know, that's just going down the drain.
36:49And can we afford it?
36:50We'd rather spend that money on education or infrastructure.
36:54And national security and defence, which we are unable to do, because it's going in parliament and it's going down the drain.
37:01But Aarti Jairat, so take for example, the special intensive revision at the SIR of voter rolls.
37:06It's an absolutely major issue.
37:08The opposition must raise it and raise it in all its forms that they want to.
37:12But is that the only issue confronting the nation today?
37:16And in your view, should there be time allocated for it?
37:20Okay, you know, you discussed this this time, but let other work also happen or, you know, that's a pipe dream.
37:28That's utopia, that will never happen.
37:30So Gaurav, you know, there are two aspects to parliament.
37:34One is the legislative business, which obviously is the primary task, passing the budget, laws that have to be made and so on.
37:41We're seeing bills being passed, we're seeing the budget being passed, that kind of legislative work is continuing.
37:47Without debate, in some instances, if I may, in less than one hour of debate, bills are being passed.
37:54I know.
37:55Is that good for our country?
37:56That's the unfortunate thing that there is no debate.
37:59But still, it's not that laws are not being made, laws are being made, the budget is being passed.
38:04So the legislative part of the business is happening.
38:07It is the political part of parliament, where you have discussions on current political issues, burning issues of the day.
38:14That is where the problem is arising, which is not happening, that you're not being able to debate the right issue.
38:20But you know, this is not just today.
38:22You know, Gaurav, can I please go back to 1995, I think it was, or 1994 or something.
38:31I'm not quite sure.
38:32I mean, sorry, my memory is failing me.
38:35I mean, when Sukram, who was the Minister of Telecom, his house was raided, and they found two crores of rupees in cash in his pillowcases and so on and so forth.
38:48The winter session that year was, not even one minute did parliament meet for the entire winter session.
38:57That was actually the start of disruption of parliament, when, you know, you just blocked an entire session because of this.
39:06Now, it's a big issue, of course, that, you know, cash has been found in the minister's office.
39:11But, should there not have been a discussion on this?
39:14Should it not have figured in the house in the form of a debate and discussion?
39:18The government of the day blocked the discussion.
39:21The opposition, which was the BJP, resorted to, you know, complete disruption and blocked all sitting of both houses of parliament.
39:29So, it started then.
39:30And, you know, it's not something you do.
39:32So, should it remain a norm over decades?
39:34We're just seeing worse and worse and worse.
39:36Yes, yes.
39:37And that's the unfortunate part.
39:39And that's the unfortunate thing.
39:42So, we need to bring some sanity back.
39:44We need to bring some sanity back to our politics.
39:47And I think our politicians must understand that you cannot continue in this climate of hate and, you know, disruptions.
39:55Because, you know, we all have to work together for the country.
39:58And, yes, SIR…
39:59Absolutely.
40:00Put India first.
40:01SIR is an issue, but is SIR the only issue or the government that's blocking it?
40:06Yes.
40:07You know, discuss if it can be, if it's in courts of law.
40:11There has to be a forward movement some way or the other.
40:15But, Charan Singh Safra, let me give you the example of the United Kingdom, for example.
40:19Salaries have been withheld during suspension.
40:22Now, they say it's rare but effective and it ensures smoother legislative business.
40:28Let me give you the example of South Africa.
40:30In the National Assembly, rules permit docking of salaries of members of, you know, their parliament for disruptions.
40:36They say it's aimed at preventing debates from being replaced with kiosks.
40:41What we see here is kiosks and not debates, sir.
40:47See, number one, Gaurav, this again has to be decided by the parliament itself.
40:52Now, other example which I would like to give, you just mentioned about SIR.
40:56Why there should be no discussion in parliament on SIR?
41:00Even if there is a case in the court where we did not discuss the EVM issue or what in parliament.
41:06We discussed CVC also.
41:08So, SIR could have been discussed, but the government never wanted to face the difficult question.
41:13They felt that they will get exposed.
41:15The way they have been getting exposed on the streets, they would have got exposed in the parliament.
41:20And they could not have erased that history which will happen in the parliament.
41:24So, this government gets scared and this government has an authoritarian nature.
41:28Sir, a member of parliament, you know, I put that question.
41:31I put that question to Umesh Bhai Patel.
41:34He's a member of parliament.
41:35He's sitting in parliament.
41:36He says once the courts have weighed in.
41:39I'm not saying this.
41:41He's saying it.
41:42Once courts have weighed in.
41:43Whatever.
41:44You continue to disrupt.
41:45No, it's not whatever.
41:46Once courts have weighed in.
41:47You continue to disrupt parliament on the same issue.
41:50But Professor Anand Ranganathan.
41:51Government could have allotted specific time.
41:53Maybe four hours or three hours or maybe lesser than that.
41:57But they should have decided the time on it.
41:59The Tamil Nadu assembly.
42:01They said the Privileged Committee when it suspended MLAs for six months, denying them salaries and allowance.
42:06The Madras High Court actually upheld that decision.
42:08And they ruled that one, due procedure was followed.
42:11Withholding salaries was valid.
42:13Their rationale, and you must hear this rationale, that suspension of salaries is way more effective and a stronger deterrent than just naming or suspending a member.
42:23The current presiding officers, they have limited powers and this hinders the functioning of parliament.
42:29So, it also violates, as Umesh Patel just told us a short while back, it violates their right to discharge their constitutional duty to their voters.
42:38Docking salaries, should that be an important first step and perhaps debate what you are suggesting.
42:44No, look, the bottom line is we are paying for a service.
42:49And that service has not been given to us.
42:52So, the people who are not doing it, they need to be punished.
42:56It's as simple as that.
42:57Otherwise, you get it from private means.
42:59Now, a couple of things, even if my suggestion of curtailing the term is not acceptable.
43:04We have a perfectly bona fide solution in our midst, the way court proceedings are carried out.
43:10Can you imagine the ruckus being inside a court?
43:13Unthinkable.
43:14Half the court would be put in jail.
43:16Why does that happen?
43:17Why are the court proceedings held accordingly to the strictures of the court and everyone is so polite and there is semblance of, you know, bonhomie there?
43:27Contempt of court.
43:28Because they trust the judge.
43:29Contempt of court.
43:30Now, out here, I think time has come to make independent MPs like Mr. Patel the speaker.
43:35Maybe that will have a better proceedings of parliament.
43:39Okay.
43:40Aarti Jairath has a big smile on her face because she clearly knows, you know, having covered parliament for close to three decades, no way will an independent party, if a government has its numbers, will it let an independent become the speaker?
43:55No way, Gaurav.
43:56No way, Gaurav.
43:57Yeah, absolutely right.
43:58There's no way it can be done.
44:00And, you know, as I said, I will circle back to politics.
44:03We need to bring some sense back into our politics.
44:07How that is going to happen, I don't know.
44:09Maybe the voters need to speak, not us on TV debates, not the courts, not, you know, sort of, not people like that, but the voters need to speak.
44:19If the voters start making their parliamentarians accountable, parliamentarians will learn.
44:25And I think that's really where we need to go.
44:28We need to tell voters that, look, make your parliamentarians accountable, make them report to you, make them do their work in parliament, raise your issues in parliament.
44:38And if they don't do it, then don't vote for them next time.
44:41And I think that is where we need to begin.
44:43Because that's the only message that parliamentarians will understand, if they don't get elected the next time around.
44:49You know, when 30% or 38% work happens, do keep in mind, 121 crore rupees of the taxpayers' money has just gone down the drain in just one session.
45:01That's the way, you know, you and I, the common people of this country, are losing out.
45:07And perhaps that's the reason why we must demand accountability from our leaders.
45:12To all my guests, many thanks for joining me.
45:14Let's hope, in our temple of democracy, it's laws that are made, legislative business that is carried out, keeping India first.
45:24National interests supreme.
45:33Welcome back, External Affairs Minister Dr. S.J. Shankar has just met the Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow at the Kremlin
45:40after his bilateral with the Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, during which he highlighted that India-Russia ties are steady and steadier since the Second World War.
45:53He has called for further enhancing bilateral trade.
45:57He also took on to social media platform X to say, honoured to call on President Putin at the Kremlin today, conveyed the warm greetings of President Draupadi Murmu and Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
46:09I apprised him of my discussions with the first Deputy Prime Minister of Russia, Denis Manturov, and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.
46:18The preparations for the annual leaders summit in India are well underway.
46:23Appreciate his sharing perspectives on global situation and recent developments on Ukraine.
46:31External Affairs Minister also said India-Russia ties are very, very strong.
46:36I get you more in this report.
46:38No, I get you more in this report.
47:05In his conversation with Sergey Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, Dr. Jaishankar said
47:11both sides have reaffirmed their plans to grow trade in a balanced and sustainable way,
47:18especially by boosting Indian exports to Russia.
47:21On oil, Dr. Jaishankar made India's stance very clear.
47:25China is the biggest buyer of Russian oil.
47:29Europe of LNG, not India.
47:32He said the U.S. had itself urged India to help stabilize global energy markets,
47:37adding that Indian oil imports from the U.S. have also gone up.
47:41So here, he's putting facts out in public domain.
47:44He went on to say, we are perplexed by the criticism.
47:49We get you more in this report.
47:53External affairs minister Jaishankar is in Moscow,
47:56even as the United States threatens to tighten tariff pressure on India.
48:02The message from Delhi and Moscow is clear.
48:06India-Russia ties remain steady, sanctions-proof, and built on trust.
48:10The White House advisor for...
48:12We reaffirmed our shared ambition to expand bilateral trade in a balanced and sustainable manner,
48:19including by increasing India's exports to Russia.
48:22This requires swiftly addressing non-tariff barriers and regulatory impediments.
48:30Enhancing Indian exports to Russia and sectors like pharmaceuticals, agriculture, and textiles
48:35will certainly help to correct the current imbalance.
48:39Both sides discussed ways to insulate trade from U.S.-led sanctions,
48:45expand settlements in national currencies,
48:47and boost cooperation in energy, defense, agriculture, and technology.
48:53Discuss political...
48:54We are not the biggest purchasers of Russian oil.
49:00That is China.
49:00We are not the biggest purchasers of Russian LNG.
49:06I'm not sure, but I think that is the European Union.
49:09We are not the country which has the biggest trade surge with Russia after 2022.
49:16I think there are some countries to the south.
49:17We are a country where actually the Americans said for the last few years
49:26that we should do everything to stabilize the world energy markets,
49:32including buying oil from Russia.
49:35Incidentally, we also buy oil from America, and that amount has been increasing.
49:40So, quite honestly, we are very perplexed at the logic of the argument that you had referred to.
49:50Talking about how unsafe and how dirty...
49:52For Washington, tariffs were meant to squeeze India.
49:55You're a lot. I've never seen a crowd like this.
49:57We send a lot of dollars overseas to India
50:00to buy their products in an unfair trade environment.
50:04India then uses American dollars to buy Russian oil,
50:09Russia then uses those American dollars that come from India
50:13to finance its armaments to kill Ukrainians.
50:20And then American taxpayers are then called upon
50:23to pay for the weapons that have to defend Ukraine
50:28against Russian armaments paid for by American dollars that came from India.
50:34That's got to stop. That math doesn't work.
50:39But New Delhi's counter has been to open new doors,
50:42with Russia and even cautiously with China,
50:44given that Beijing now says that it stands with India
50:47against Trump's tariff tyranny.
50:50The United States has long been benefited greatly from free trade,
50:56but now it is using tariffs as a bargaining chip
51:04to demand exorbitant prices from various countries.
51:09The United States has imposed tariffs of up to 50% on India
51:15and is even threatened for more.
51:19China fully opposes it.
51:21In the face of such acts, silence or compromise
51:26only emboldens the bullying.
51:31In Moscow, Jai Shankar and Lavrov also reviewed cooperation in BRICS, SCO and G20,
51:37signaling that multipolarity firmly remains the cornerstone of India's diplomacy.
51:41The diplomatic signal is unmissable.
51:49Tariffs won't derail India's strategy.
51:52Moscow remains a time-tested partner.
51:54And New Delhi is making sure its economic roadmap is not dictated by Washington.
52:00We are a report, India Today.
52:02I want to quickly cut across to India Today's Pranay Upadhyay,
52:08joining us for more on this big story.
52:10Pranay, when we talk about Russia investing more in India,
52:16how do you see India-Russia trade be taken forward?
52:20Because the External Affairs Minister made it very clear,
52:22the American criticism that India is buying maximum oil from Russia or LNG,
52:28clearly not true.
52:29It's China and Europe.
52:30Gaurav, in a very subtle and a very strong message,
52:33India has made it very clear that the American narrative
52:36that India is fueling the Russian economy and the Russian war machine
52:40is not true, countered by the factual position by the Ministry of External Affairs
52:44as well as the Minister of External Affairs, Dr. S. Jai Shankar.
52:48But, you know, as far as the trade relation is concerned,
52:50we also have to see that India-Russia bilateral trade is very lopsided
52:54and we are in trade deficit.
52:56The currently bilateral trade figure is at around $68 billion,
53:00which is, you know, the highest component of it,
53:04which is the oil trade, the $58 billion worth of,
53:06or $54 billion worth of oil trade is part of it.
53:09If you, you know, leave apart the oil trade in it, from it,
53:13then you are only, you know, left with around $10 billion.
53:17India and Russia have planned to take this bilateral trade
53:20to the figure of $100 billion by 2030.
53:23The FTA negotiations are on between India and Russia.
53:27The basic political parameters have been fixed between India and Russia
53:31for the FTA, free trade agreement between both the countries.
53:34And that's why the Ministry of External Affairs, Dr. S. Jai Shankar,
53:36has asked the Russian business community
53:39that they should partner with Indian trade community.
53:41But the clear and very strong message given by the Indian side from Moscow
53:46is that India is not going to buckle down on the U.S. pressure.
53:49Also, we are going to exercise our strategic autonomy,
53:52be it our energy security,
53:53or be it our strategic autonomy of pursuing our foreign policy
53:57and pursuing our strategic interest and strategic partnership.
54:00That is all I have for you on India First this evening.
54:26Many thanks for watching.
Be the first to comment