'False Imprisonment!': Top Texas Dem Reacts To Police Escorts For Reps Amidst Gerrymandering Fight

4 months ago

On "Forbes Newsroom," Kendall Scudder, Chair of the Texas Democratic Party, discussed the ongling battle over gerrymandering and the treatment of Democratic lawmakers since their return to the Lone Star State.

Transcript

00:00Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes. Joining me now

00:07is Kendall Scudder, state chair of the Texas Democratic Party. Chair Scudder, thank you so

00:11much for joining me once again. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I would love if

00:16you could give us an update of where Texas Democrats are right now, because you and I spoke

00:20about two weeks ago. And at that time, Texas Democrats in the state's house have left the

00:25state. They left to avoid the quorum needed to vote on Republican-drawn congressional maps. And

00:31these maps caused national controversy because they had the potential to flip five seats in

00:37Congress from blue to red at the behest of President Donald Trump. Now this week, Texas Democrats are

00:43back in the state. So to start off the conversation, talk to us a little bit about the timing. Why was

00:48now the time to come back? Well, the intention of the Democrats' quorum break was to kill the first

00:54special session. And they did that successfully. Second intention was to start a national conversation

01:00around redistricting and nonpartisan redistricting committees on a federal level. I think they did

01:06that. The third prerogative on that was to start getting blue states to get more aggressive with the

01:11way they're drawing maps. You know, we're tired as a red state Democrats always having to carry the

01:17burden of these fights. And it's time for blue states to be on the offensive here. And we did that.

01:22So there was a lot of success there. And then once the first special session ended, there was a

01:27second one called and the members came back to do the work of their districts and to what they're

01:34intending to do. So that strategy is all still playing out. There's a possibility that these maps

01:39could pass. But I think all options are still on the table. What we're seeing right now are Republicans

01:44like Dustin Burroughs, the Speaker of the House, you know, saddling each of them with police officers,

01:49refusing to allow them to leave the chamber. I mean, real tyranny. And I think any lover of

01:54liberty in this country should be troubled by a government that can behave in such a fashion to

02:00people who didn't break any laws. I mean, talk to us about that, because Democrats in Texas

02:05described these as permission slips where they had to sign a sheet of paper, an agreement saying,

02:11if I leave the House, if I leave the chamber, I will have a security escort with me.

02:16One member did not sign and she stayed in the chamber. A few others ended up ripping their

02:22agreement up and they're back in the chamber staying there too. I mean, what do you make of

02:26that agreement? I mean, I think it's outrageous. It's false imprisonment, but it's way beyond what

02:32their authority is. I mean, look, this isn't about whether or not you necessarily agree with

02:37everything that they're doing. This is about should the government have the right to detain you for no

02:42reason. Should the government have a right to hold you when you've committed no crimes? I mean,

02:48whether it's talking about D.C. where they're sending federal troops in to, you know, arrest

02:53people who are just doing minor traffic violations, or you're talking about places where ICE is raiding

03:00and they're arresting law-abiding citizens and law-abiding residents and plucking them off the

03:04streets without talking to them. There's a problem where the government has this level of overreach

03:08and people need to be concerned. You know, the don't tread on me crowd's being real quiet right

03:13now, and that's a little surprising. I mean, let's take the politics out for a moment and let's say

03:19your colleague issued you an agreement saying, if you want to leave work, you have to have a security

03:24detail around the clock, right? I mean, I'm sure that doesn't foster the most collegial environment.

03:30So what are the conversations right now looking like between Democrats and Republicans?

03:34I think things are more tense now than they've really ever been. Like, how do you go back

03:38the Democrats perpetuated a constitutionally protected procedural move? It was put in the

03:44Texas Constitution by the founders of Texas. So if you have a problem with it, don't take it up with

03:49me. Take it up with General St. Houston, okay? So they were gone to Chicago. They came like,

03:53you don't have to agree with it. You don't have to like it. But it's their constitutional right.

03:57They're protected to do it. But while they were gone, their colleagues were tweeting things about

04:01deporting them, about taking away some of their citizenships. I mean, pretty vile and disgusting

04:08things about arresting them. I mean, like, you don't talk about people you have to work with like

04:13that just because you disagree with them. So now they're back on the floor. And how do you work

04:18with these people? How do you continue to foster an environment where Republicans took that to such

04:23a degree? And I mean, it is just Republicans don't know how to govern. Republicans, they're not acting

04:30in a professional way. That's why people aren't getting out of the government what they want.

04:34This should all be about how are we making life more affordable for people? How are we getting

04:38flood relief for these victims? How are we making sure you can see a doctor when you're sick? And

04:43that's not what we're talking about right now, because Republicans don't know how to act right.

04:47The conversation got pretty nasty over the past couple of weeks, because Governor Abbott,

04:53he threatened to arrest these Democrats. He threatened $500 fine a day for the Democrats

05:00who left the state. He threatened that they would be out of a job. Have there been any conversations

05:05between Democrats and Governor Abbott? What does that look like right now?

05:09Well, let's make clear, he also threatened and told all of his supporters to hunt them down,

05:14to which the very next day they had a bomb threat that threatened all of their lives

05:19at the behest of the governor. It is outrageous and beyond the way that they are acting. This is not

05:26how our American system of government is supposed to be working. I am not privy to the conversations

05:32with House Democratic leadership and the governor. I would be surprised if much of it was happening.

05:38And do they need to pay those $500 a day fines? What does that money look like right now?

05:43Well, I believe those are individual fines to them as individuals. All of them will handle it

05:48how they see fit. That's kind of a question for the House Democratic Caucus and for each of those

05:53members individually. But I'm sure they'll work through it. It's a small price to pay to do the

05:59great monumental efforts they did while they were gone to start resetting a conversation on partisan

06:05gerrymandering in this country. And again, I said this on our last interview, I'll say it again.

06:10It's not about, we know that Democrats do gerrymandering too, okay? No one's sitting

06:15here saying they don't. But I'm saying that in 2021, every single Democrat in Congress voted in

06:20favor of federal nonpartisan redistricting committees and every Republican voted against

06:24them, okay? We're trying to get to a spot where partisan gerrymandering is gone nationally,

06:30blue states and red states. And Republicans just aren't working with us in these efforts to try

06:34to get good things done for people so that government's working for you, not for these

06:38political games.

06:40I know that a Democratic state rep in Texas, Representative Mihaela Pleiza, she told NPR this,

06:46we had to come back home for the legal battle. Are you privy to what exactly that legal battle

06:51really looks like right now?

06:52Yeah, I am. And I'm sure it'll look very similar to other legal battles. For the last 60 years,

06:58since the Voting Rights Act was passed, every single time that Texas has drawn a districting

07:04map, it has violated that. And we have taken them to court every time. And we have won that

07:10every single time where they've had to redraw districts. So we don't expect this to be any

07:16different. The difference, I guess, would be that preclearance got eliminated. And so now we're going

07:20to have to take it straight to courts. And so you'll see a similar legal battle to what's been done

07:25because they have consistently infringed on the representational rights of minority groups.

07:29And there's no way around it. I mean, courts are finding it time and time again.

07:34Right now in Texas, it would take a Hispanic Texan three votes to equate the representational

07:39vote of one white Texan. And it would take a black Texan five votes to equate the vote of one white

07:46Texan with regards to representation in their government. They would become the least represented

07:51demographic in the country of any state. It's immoral. It's unconscionable. And there's no way

07:57these maps are going to hold up in court. And when you present that argument laid out like you

08:02just did to Republicans in Texas, I mean, what's their response to that?

08:07Honestly, Brittany, when have in recent history the Republicans been concerned in the slightest about

08:13the letter of the law? They frame themselves as this law and order party that thinks that they are

08:18above the law. We have someone right now on the Epstein list sitting in the White House,

08:23Epstein list that he said didn't exist. First, he said it existed. Then he said it didn't exist.

08:27Now they're trying to release it. I mean, it's outrageous what these people are doing to protect

08:31pedophiles, what these people are doing to protect criminals. And I mean, right now,

08:37Ghislaine Maxwell just got put in some Cush prison here in Texas because they're trying to coddle her to

08:42make sure she's not ratting out Donald Trump. I mean, it's just really gross the way they're

08:46operating. And so I don't really ever expect them to try to operate within the confines of the law.

08:51They try to operate in ways that they can circumvent it to the best of their abilities.

08:55But you and I are treated and held to a different standard. We're not expected to do that. We're

09:00expected to abide by the law, just as our legislators did, because that quorum break was protected by law.

09:06And so, yeah, I've stopped holding them to that standard because they don't hold themselves to it.

09:12And you said in our last conversation that after Democrats, governors in blue states, they said,

09:19we're going to fight fire with fire. You were like, what are you guys waiting on? Texas is in this

09:24fight now. And California did release some redrawn maps and they would flip potentially five red seats

09:31blue in that state. That would counteract what Texas is doing. What do you make of that plan?

09:36Didn't go far enough, but appreciate that they moved on it sooner. And when you have an opportunity

09:44to go bigger, they should have gone bigger. Every one of these blue states should go as big as they

09:48possibly can right now. It is the only language that these elected Republicans understand.

09:54I mean, it's sad that this is the state of government right now, but it is. And Democrats have to get

10:00themselves out of this muscle memory of being the only adults in the room trying to govern things

10:05because it's causing us to get circles run around us electorally and governmentally.

10:10We've got to fight fire with fire and punch back harder. And so, you know, just passing a map to

10:15offset what Republicans do, I think they should have gone bigger and they should have gotten to a point

10:20where Republicans would go to the United States Congress and beg for nonpartisan redistricting

10:25committees. But with all that being said, grateful that that action was taken and that they went ahead and

10:31did it before all of the stuff in Texas really came to a head so that our legislators

10:35had some wiggle room to be able to figure out what they could do to manage their own lives.

10:39Let's say I'm a Texas Democrat. I'm in one of those districts that's going to be redrawn.

10:44My district's blue. It has the potential to flip and go red. If I'm sitting there, I'm thinking,

10:49you know, how does what's happening in California help me here in Texas? What do you say to that?

10:55Well, even with these maps getting changed in places like California, it doesn't change the

11:00disparity in representation. It doesn't change the fact that it's harming minority representation

11:05in government. That's still a pressing issue. And that's why we're still trying to fight it as

11:09best we can. But that is a legal argument that we can actually handle in courts that I believe,

11:15you know, as long as those courts aren't stacked and rigged against the game, it's pretty cut and dry

11:20and obvious. And I think that Texas Democrats have a really good opportunity here. To those people,

11:25what I say is polls don't vote. Previous elections don't vote. We do. And so in the next election,

11:32we have an opportunity to do the funniest thing you possibly could. And that's tell Texas Republicans

11:36to take these maps and shove it. And we could pick up seats in this session, but only if we get together

11:42and harness the fact this state is the lowest turnout state in the country and do everything we can to

11:48turn the citizens of this state out to vote to make sure we get a government that works for us,

11:53not just for Donald Trump and the billionaire class.

11:56And I know when you and I spoke last time when Texas Democrats were holding governors feet to

12:01the fire, Governor Gavin Newsom said something. Governor Davey Pritzker said something. Governor

12:06Kathy Hochul said, we're going to see what we can do. Essentially, all options are on the table.

12:11One of the governors did say that. So far, we're seeing these maps from California. Do you expect

12:15or want to see more from other blue states?

12:18I expect to see it, of course, not just as the chairman of the party that is having to carry

12:25the brunt of a lot of this right now, but also as a Democratic voter. I mean, I, as a, as a Democrat

12:31in society that has been electing these Democrats in order for them to be these great champions of

12:36democracy and fighting to preserve, you know, this country, I expect them to act like it.

12:42And so absolutely, I would love to see more action from these blue state governors.

12:46And as I said earlier in the conversation, I mean, I still can't wrap my head around

12:53a colleague issuing me to sign something saying you can't leave or vice versa. I mean,

12:59and just the exchange of what was said the past two weeks. I mean, it must, on a personal level,

13:05be awkward to return to work. And you said this last time that Democrats are not going to participate

13:09in a system where they're not working for you. They're meaning Republicans. They're working for

13:14Donald Trump. So how do Democrats now in Texas work with Republicans in Texas? Because is it at

13:21the point right now of no return? Because it does as someone who's sitting right now in New Jersey on

13:26the border of New York, it does seem that way. This legislative session is the very first time

13:32that they don't have both parties chairing committees. Only Republicans chair committees now.

13:38They strip Democrats of everything. They're taking away our ability to serve our constituents.

13:43It doesn't serve anyone well, except for a bunch of partisan hacks. And I think the people of Texas

13:48are seeing it. They've seen how Republicans have broken this state. And so to those people,

13:53what I would say to them is, how do you look at, think of Texas 30 years ago. Do you feel like

14:00your taxes are lower now than they were 30 years ago? Do you feel like your schools are better now

14:05than they were 30 years ago? Do you feel safer in your community than you did 30 years ago? Are your

14:09bridges and roads better than they were 30 years ago? Because the biggest difference is that Democrats

14:13ran this state 30 years ago when Texas was the envy of the world and Republicans have run it into the

14:19ground. And how long are we going to let them do that before we reinstate responsible government

14:24that invests in it working, not just trying to disassemble it?

14:27And this really, like I said, sparked a national conversation about redistricting in general.

14:34It got California to get involved. Other governors said that they were going to get involved.

14:39Do you think that this map is going to pass in Texas, but you're hoping that the other states

14:45pick up the slack here for you?

14:48I mean, we, of course, hope that it won't. We're hoping we can get amendments on it. We're hoping that

14:53our Senate in Texas will take some of the brunt of this as well. Why is it always on the state

14:58house? But there's a possibility that this sucker will vote or pass, and it's very likely. It will

15:04expeditiously get it into the court system where we'll be able to fight it, hopefully before filing

15:09starts, to be able to get this rectified.

15:12Chairman Kendall Scudder, I appreciate your conversation again. You're welcome back anytime.

15:17Thanks for joining me.

15:18Thanks for having me. I sure appreciate it.

'False Imprisonment!': Top Texas Dem Reacts To Police Escorts For Reps Amidst Gerrymandering Fight

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