- 6 months ago
Police Find Dead Mother In Daughter's Garage
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00:00I mean she's in there. Oh, she's in there.
00:11Police department. Police department.
00:22Hi, how's it going? Are you Patricia? No, I'm her daughter.
00:26This is 50-year-old Carol Ray. She lives with her mother, Patricia, and her three-year-old
00:32daughter. This made sense to the cops. Carol's mother, Patricia, didn't want to
00:55deal with her greedy grandson and decided to move out and ignore him. Or at least that's
01:00what Carol claimed. Because at this point, police are completely unaware of the horrifying
01:06secrets that lie just feet away from them inside the house. And over the course of the
01:12next few days, this simple missing persons report would turn into hands down the most gruesome
01:18and disturbing case that they had ever worked on. And then I get a text message from Carol's
01:25mom, but it doesn't read like Carol's mom. My grandma just texted me, I guess. Okay.
01:29Send the cops to my house again. My grandma's not at the house.
01:33It's clear that you're not telling us the truth. Where is she at, Carol?
01:45Following the interaction with Carol the previous night, John would call the police again, slowly
01:50becoming more concerned that something had happened to Patricia. So at 11am on January 22nd,
01:56officers would arrive at Carol's house for a second time with the intent to find a conclusive answer
02:01to John's worries.
02:06Um, grandma's Patricia. Mom is Carol.
02:16Hi. Are you Carol? Yes. Is Patricia here? No, she's not. She's getting her B12 shot or something like
02:23that with Dr. Tupas. It's not written down anywhere in here. Um, maybe on the notion,
02:28where it's done with Dr. T on the, um, old calendar.
02:35This little girl. This is my daughter, Alice and her granddaughter. Hi. Oh, okay. Does she live here
02:41with you? Yeah, we live together. Your grandma? Yeah. Or your mom? Sorry. Yeah. She's been, uh,
02:47she's been staying there at her sister's house for a couple of, uh, a couple of days because we just got
02:52diagnosed with pneumonia and got home from the hospital. I had diverticulitis, that rupture.
02:57Okay. So. So she's back here though, staying here primarily now? Both. I mean, all of her clothes
03:04and everything are here. Um, she came by yesterday and she was here last, not last night, but night
03:11before last. And she was here yesterday for until about 5pm and picked up her medications. Okay. And
03:17a fresh change of clothes and stuff like that. Okay. Well, the reason we're here is because
03:21your children are concerned about your grandma. My son, John, yeah, he sent you guys over last
03:26night, which I contacted my mother about that she had a fit and I was going to go down. So there's
03:31the police department today about it. Well, there's a little bit of a financial money issue between my
03:37mother and my old son, John. Okay. And he borrows a loan from her and doesn't repay it. He's got a truck
03:42in the backyard she bought him, a car in the garage that she bought him that she took back because he didn't pay
03:47the insurance on it. So my mom is very finicky woman. So she got me. I see about that now.
03:56I got damn ready to call him. I got things to keep care of. Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.
04:00How old's your mom? I said she's 69 this year. Based on Carol's story, Patricia is back living
04:06at her house and is currently at the doctor's office getting a monthly shot. Everything lines up. Patricia
04:12temporarily stopped communicating with John due to a financial dispute. However, John being a caring
04:18grandchild got worried something more sinister was at play. It seems like it was just miscommunication.
04:24However, officers decide to get all of Patricia's information and check her room just to ensure
04:29nothing's off. All right. Where's her room here? It's right back here. Can we just look at it? Yeah.
04:35Do you want to see where her clothes are and everything? Do you want to show us? I'm sorry,
04:40baby. Do you want to show where grandma B's room is? Her room is the last one on the right now since
04:44it's the first one on the left here. Nope. We've been letting Ali sleep in this bedroom since grandma
04:49B spent the night already so that she can have her stuff done. And all her clothes are in there.
04:54All my stuff is right there. Our first clothes that she just lost. Okay. All right. We're good.
05:01We just see, we get the call, you know, and then there's one side of the story and then there's
05:05the other. So if he's got everyone worked out, like he said, he might call. Someone else might call
05:10and you don't want us showing up here a million times. So we want to just hear in person. Hey,
05:14you're fine. That's all we need to do. Okay? Alrighty. Alrighty. Thank you. You're welcome. Have a good day.
05:22The officers have one simple task to wrap this case up. Simply confirm Patricia is okay with their
05:27own eyes. To do this, Officer Pelt decides to call the doctor's office where Patricia is apparently
05:33being treated. However, the call doesn't go as planned. Hi, this is Casey from Woods Cardiology.
05:40How can I help you? Hi, this is Officer Pelt with the Roseville Police Department. I'm just calling
05:46because I believe you have a patient in your office by the name of Patricia Bennett,
05:52and she has some family members that are concerned about her and are trying to just make sure she's
05:58there. Um, nope. Um, she's not here. Her, actually, they might have got the date mixed up. Her
06:05appointment is, um, February the 13th. I'm going to go ahead and ask a couple of my colleagues just
06:11to make sure, like, did she come here or anything like that. Or is she planning on coming there?
06:17Nope. Um, she's not supposed to be in today. Nobody's, um, seen, like, she hasn't come in yet
06:23or anything like that, but we can watch out and contact you. Suddenly, things are starting to
06:29miss a line. John insists that he thinks Patricia is missing and now the only person living with her
06:34is lying about her current location. Something is definitely not adding up, so officers decide to
06:41speak to John again to further investigate the strange situation. I just don't get why my grandma
06:49make her Facebook post saying she's at home. You guys show up and she's not there. And that was
06:54literally two minutes ago. As soon as you pulled away, she texted my dad back. There may be other
06:57circumstances that, uh, we're not aware of or the family's not aware of. So what your expectation is
07:03that this woman here is, who's your mother, is hiding your grandmother from you? Yeah. For what
07:08reason? For a month. She's trying to take the money from her that you think is entitled to you?
07:12No. No. Okay. I don't know. No. You're a grandmother. What? My grandma raised us. Raised you. Okay. Okay.
07:18So generally, yes, I'm really concerned. Our mom's been in and out of our lives. Right. Okay.
07:23Our mom was never in her life. And I just don't want my grandma to be passed away and she's collecting,
07:29or hopefully she's just hiding her because she's sick. And my grandma's on the phone. No, I really
07:33have a pissed off grandma that I'm missing or dead. Well, if she's dead,
07:38then, I mean, if she's got a body hiding somewhere or has done away with her, I mean,
07:44and then trying to collect social security or whatever she receives, I mean, it takes some effort.
07:48My grandma has fraudulent charges on her. When was that done? A couple of years ago. A couple
07:56years ago? Okay. And what happened to those charges? I think my grandma decided to not pursue them. Okay.
08:01Okay.
08:02Only the head would lock her up because that's your daughter.
08:05But I'm not trying to get her in trouble, but why would you keep lying and lying and lying?
08:09So that's why I'm thinking that nothing's had enough.
08:11John's claims are frankly terrifying. Not only does he suspect his mother of stealing from Patricia and
08:27using her money, but he thinks she may have even murdered her. Accusing your own mother of committing
08:33such a terrible act is something officers need to take seriously. However, there's no evidence to
08:39suggest that Carol had even harmed Patricia, let alone killed her, so these claims feel drastic,
08:45unfounded, and premature. Officer Jerubik seems to have felt these claims were over the top as well,
08:51so he would lead John to the station to file a missing persons report. Additionally,
08:56he wants to learn about John's history with Carol, and why he thinks she may have killed Patricia.
09:01Alongside John would be Carol's ex-husband TJ, who claimed to have important information that could
09:07help solve the case.
09:08I'm just going to record you and I.
09:10All right.
09:11All right.
09:12So when did you physically last see your grandmother eye to eye?
09:16Probably after Halloween, beginning of November, before I went to North Carolina.
09:19I came back from North Carolina on Thanksgiving, so then I see her.
09:23Went there on Christmas, then I see her. I've been calling her and asking her to call me.
09:27I need to hear your voice. Or have my mom have you call me. I need to hear your voice.
09:31Or I'm going to do a welfare check. I threatened that a couple weeks ago.
09:34All right, yesterday I just cracked and finally called her then.
09:36And now you haven't had any voice contact with her since Thanksgiving.
09:41Somebody's been texting me off her phone or off her Facebook.
09:43I know it's not her just because the words they use. It's not how my grandma talks.
09:47When was the last time you saw Carol?
09:49I thought I saw Carol, period?
09:51Not Carol. Um, Patricia.
09:52Oh, okay. I'm like, I'm like, every time I drop my daughter.
09:54Yeah, yeah, yeah.
09:55We're like Patricia.
09:56Patricia.
09:57Contact with Patricia.
09:58Yes.
09:58Yeah.
09:59It was around Halloween time.
10:01I did receive one text message the other day stating that she was, um,
10:06Sorry for holding up Carol.
10:07Carol and my daughter were supposed to hang out because it was my birthday this weekend.
10:11Okay, around 6 o'clock.
10:12I started texting her.
10:13I'm like, what the fuck's going on?
10:14You know, it's my birthday.
10:15We're supposed to be celebrating it and blah blah blah.
10:17Who you, Carol and Allison are supposed to be celebrating on Sunday, your birthday.
10:21Right. And then, um, I get a text message from Carol's mom, but it doesn't read like Carol's mom,
10:27but it says, sorry, I'm holding her up, signing over the cars and giving her title to house and
10:33insurance stuff so she cab get that stuff fined Monday. It gets kind of, when Carol types,
10:40a lot of times it comes up kind of, uh, misspelled. It's because she don't wear glasses and stuff like that.
10:45The only contact that you've had with her was from a random message. And she said that she was with my aunt.
10:54So I did some research. I went there today and spoke with my aunt Carol. She hadn't spoken with my grandma since 2015.
11:00Remember how Carol said that Patricia moved over to live at her sister's house?
11:04Is Patricia here?
11:05No, she's not here. No, she has a sister.
11:07John visited that house and Patricia's sister claimed that she hasn't seen Patricia in over five years.
11:15And she was messaging me today while we were there with the cops,
11:18saying that she was home and messaging my dad that she was home when we know she wasn't there
11:21because the cops were there. My dad is screenshotting them all and sent me those messages.
11:25Okay. Can you email those to me?
11:29Um, one thing I do know, and I mean, in this type of situation, I would hope it's more true than it is
11:34the other is, um, I've been, I mean, I have no, like I said, I've known Carol since I've been 20.
11:38I mean, like bold face, like you can show her like, here's a picture of you. And I have,
11:42here's a picture of you doing this and that I, it's not me.
11:48I mean, so she's always been a chronic, chronic, chronic liar, especially when she's off for meds.
11:54Um, she, cause she does take, um, lots of medicines longer than I think when we were together.
11:58I mean, you, you, I'm sure you can get her a list of medicines that she was taking, but I guess she,
12:02she lost, she lost her, um, therapist. So she has not had medicine for the last couple of months.
12:09And when that happens, things get kind of wonky with her.
12:13Many other conversations are then calling the house phone, social media, off of the messenger,
12:20calling her that way, texting her, nothing. And then on 12th of January, my mom texted me off
12:27her phone saying, grandma B is sleeping, getting over ammonia here. I was like, have her call me.
12:32I need to hear her voice. She never does this. She always calls me. And there was no response.
12:38These interviews help clarify why John would go as far as saying Carol had killed Patricia.
12:43She's been lying to them for months. Nobody's been able to see or speak to Patricia. And she
12:49happens to have a decent surplus of cash that the family has been pulling from. And remember,
12:54on top of all of that, Carol lied to police about Patricia's whereabouts at the doctor's office.
12:59The evidence makes it abundantly clear that Carol's not telling the truth and trying to hide
13:04something and it's likely something horrifying. So police try and visit her house a third and final
13:10time. But this time they aren't leaving without answers. Hello. Hi again. Hi. Is she here now?
13:17No, she's up at the liver cancer institute getting her B12 check. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be gripey with
13:22you, but where is she at? We're just getting complicated information as well. The doctor's
13:27office that you told us she went to, she's not there. With cardiovascular is where she goes.
13:31Dr. Topazzo is who treats her lipocytic white blood cell cancer. Not the white blood cell cancer.
13:37Because you said she was at Woods Cardiovascular. Because she has a lot of doctors. What's your
13:42daughter's name? It's Allison. Allison. Allison. Allison. Allison. Allison.
13:47You're such a dog getting complicated information from her. It's a nice balloon. Well, it's because
13:52I love it. Can I see you? Ah, thank you. I can't keep all of it. Hey, Allison. Woods Cardiovascular is where she's
13:58been treated. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. It's where she's been treated for a long time with Dr. Topazzo.
14:04How did she get there? How did she get there? Her sister drives her, or I drive her. You didn't
14:09drive her today, so today. And sometimes they're near her across the street. How did she get there
14:13today, though? I believe her sister. Her sister? Yes. The sister that lives in Warren? Yes. Okay.
14:21But you don't have your sister's number? I don't talk with my aunt or my own. Well, last night,
14:26she stayed over there. When the officer came here, she did not speak directly to her. She spoke to me.
14:32Okay. Because she was at my aunt's. She was here, yes, right before last. Is that your phone?
14:37She was here. Yes, that's when I just hate you. Listen, we just want to know where this lady is.
14:42I don't understand, but you guys are upsetting my daughter, and you're upsetting me. She doesn't
14:45look upset. That's fine. Because you don't hear her in see-sells when she leaked. I just went
14:50through a really bad domestic violence divorce situation, and CPS left my butt for the past two
14:55times this year. We're not here, but that's not what we're here for. We're here to find out if
14:59your mom's okay. We got a bunch of people who are concerned about her, and no one seems to know
15:03where she is. My son's father, my son, and his brother, which he's got his brother on high alert
15:08now, which his brother's wife was just here yesterday morning while my mom was laying on
15:13the couch to pick up $200 to do her tabs for the car for my son's car.
15:17She's sending messages telling everyone she's here. She's currently here. No,
15:31she's coming back here because she just called. She just called. Why don't you call her right now
15:37while we're here? Yeah. And she's on her way, then shortly we'll be able to resolve this.
15:41Can I turn this back on to her? Yeah. That's fine. You can see that I'm actually...
15:47Oh. You want to put on speakerphone?
15:54Will she answer you? I don't know. She went up there to get her B12 shot.
15:58Notice the drastic change in Carol's demeanor when she was directly asked to call Patricia.
16:03She's no longer deflecting, but rather soft-spoken and deliberate with her choice of words.
16:09Pay attention to Carol's body language as she's asked more of these direct questions.
16:15I know she's supposed to be calling John because John's the one that started this
16:21three, four nights ago threatening to call if she didn't talk to him. Yeah. If she didn't talk to him
16:27by noon the next day. I had her call before she went to Sam's club. It was like 1145, 1150.
16:34Is it possible then that she could just speak to John directly? Yeah. Well then why hasn't she?
16:42Like face-to-face so that they're at ease. She's not at ease right. We're sending messages to each other.
16:47Do you want to call her again? People are just concerned.
16:52I'm sorry. She was talking. You were talking. Phone was ringing. What did you say?
16:55Why can't your mother directly speak to John? Not through a message. Not through text.
17:02She can't. I don't have nothing to do with her and John though. Well, that's why we're here.
17:06I'm getting stuck in the middle of it. Yes. And so are we. So are we. And we have to figure,
17:10we have to see her. Do you want to just try to call her again? What's the doctor's office she's at?
17:15Which car are you? No. The Weber Cancer Center is behind Lacombe Hospital.
17:23Coincidentally, Officer Pelt would call this doctor's office and yet again, Patricia was nowhere to be
17:29found. Officer Pelt knew something was off and decided to call in Detective Jarebex to question
17:34Carol officially and confront her about her growing list of lies.
17:38I have not been through the garage. I just went through the house.
18:05So it's going to go south quickly. So she's at, she's at her drinking. Okay.
18:11This is Detective Jarebex. Excuse me.
18:17Hi. Hi. So we're going to, I mean, if you don't mind, we'll get consent from you to search the house
18:24to see if there's anything that would lead us to think of who she may have went with to help you out,
18:28figure out where she just went. She didn't, she didn't tell you otherwise, right? You're under the
18:33impression she was supposed to be with her sister. Yes. That's what she told you.
18:36Yes. Who, who lives in the house? I do. My mom and this little girl for her over.
18:42Has she done this in the past? My mom doesn't tell anybody where she, what she does.
18:47And your, but your son seemed pretty concerned that she wasn't here.
18:51What's on John? Yeah. Yeah. But she tells you that she's with your sister, her sister.
18:56That's got me. That's concerning, correct? That's got me worried. I'm not worried,
19:00but aggravated. She's not answering her phone calls. The people that she says she's with,
19:04she's not. That's concerning. That's got me aggravated.
19:08I won't feel right if I leave this house without looking for anything that can point us in the right
19:12direction. I want to do my job properly and make sure that, and I guarantee when she walks back in
19:17this door and she finds out that I searched for her, through her stuff to help try to find her,
19:22find her to be okay with me because that's what most people would be okay with, correct?
19:26I'll open up her bedroom door so you can see her stuff or whatever. I'll unlock the power for you
19:31so you can look at it and whatever, or whatever you want to do. I don't want to sign anything and get
19:35in trouble. Okay. There's all of her things. Okay. When your mom left, did she take like a toothbrush,
19:43a bag of clothes, like she was spending the night anywhere? No, she's a person. Yeah, does she normally
19:51sleep over people's house without, um... Well, she does, she did this time, and she has in the
19:57past, puzzles, right? So she does have, obviously, medical issues. Oh yeah, she's got medical issues
20:03for a while. She takes medical issues. What I'm saying is that, that's also, when we're looking at
20:06somebody being missing, it's concerning because anything can happen when she's at COPD, she's got,
20:11she's had a stroke already, uh, we understand she's... She's out there.
20:18You don't seem very concerned. I'm trying to, I'm more concerned for your mom than you are.
20:23I am concerned. I just, I've talked to her and seen her in the past 24, 48 hours,
20:31and I'm frazzled because she's lied to me about talking to my, and I don't know why she would do
20:37that. So, I mean, we're concerned because your mom, your mom left, but she didn't even pack a bag to go,
20:43you know. For an overnight, she probably won't. Even when she came out to my trailer that I was
20:47dream of. I mean, I'm fine, I won't go. So for like an overnight, you don't pack like a,
20:52just a toothbrush, a change of clothes, underwear? I don't have any teeth.
20:55Obviously, something's going on here. We're fairly certain something's going on. We need to start
21:02fresh, and we need to tell you, we need you to tell us exactly what happened. Your story's not
21:08ending up. Your story goes through it very quickly. You're extremely nervous. Well, yeah,
21:14I had the police here last night and today. Carol, obviously, something probably happened to your
21:20mother, right? You know something that you're not telling us. That's, that's apparent to us.
21:28We're, we're trained investigators. We, we know when something's not right and something isn't right.
21:34You have many people outside of you that are concerned about your mother's whereabouts.
21:42Where is she at, Carol? I don't know because she honestly said what she told me when she left here.
21:49The detectives haven't cracked Carol yet, but they're extremely close. If they can get verbal
21:54consent to search the property, they may be able to find clues to further solve the case or get Carol
22:00to reveal more information. All right, listen to me. You're lying a lot, okay? I'm, I'm now at a point
22:09where I don't believe anything you're saying, okay? Well, I've now confirmed another part of your story
22:14that's wrong. So you need to come clean now. Let me know where your mother's at. If she's in this house
22:19or in your garage that she passed away from natural causes or whatever it is, and you didn't want to do
22:24anything because maybe you needed some extra money for social security or whatever it is,
22:28we can get through it. But right now what you're doing is you're hiding somebody who's possibly dead.
22:34Okay? Absolutely not. Carol, she hasn't been in this house in two months, three months.
22:39She has. She's got dirty clothes in the laundry room. She's got clean clothes hanging right there.
22:45Why does that have to do anything? That's, that's neither here nor there.
22:49I don't, I mean… What's going on? What's going on in your life that we have to be covered?
22:56Yeah, that's odd because she left for the night. Wouldn't she want to brush her hair in the morning?
23:01Carol was caught lying through her teeth multiple times. However, despite all of that,
23:07detectives couldn't get the consent to search her property. This leaves them in a tough situation.
23:12It's clear Carol is lying and hiding Patricia's whereabouts, but with no solid evidence,
23:17they can't be certain of Carol's involvement in the disappearance. But luckily,
23:22the police had a trick in mind, involving Carol's current boyfriend, Ricky. Since Ricky has been
23:27living in the house with Carol, he has the authority to give consent to areas of mutual access. In this
23:32situation, that allows officers to search the majority of the property despite Carol's objection
23:38to the search. As long as Ricky doesn't have any involvement in Patricia's disappearance,
23:42he would have no reason to object to a search of the property.
23:45Hey, how are you doing, sir? How about yourself? Not too bad. Are you Ricky?
23:49Yeah. Okay. All right. Step back. Here's some of these detectives want to talk with you.
23:54Detectives? Yeah. What's going on? Well, they'll talk with you.
24:01When was the last time you saw Patricia? Like physically saw her in person? Physically saw her. It's
24:09probably been about a month. Would you mind coming to the station with us? So we can just sit there and talk?
24:13Well, we're trying to find, we want to find Patricia, but we're getting- She's not at her sister's house? No.
24:25How long have you- She cheated on me? She's lied on me and- Who's lied on you? Like Carol.
24:33Carol? She's cheated on me, yeah. Because she's the one that told me that she was at her sister's house.
24:37Thankfully, it seems as though Ricky has no idea of the crimes. More importantly,
24:42he would agree to a search of the property, granting them access to most of the home. If they discover
24:46anything serious, they'll need a search warrant to investigate it further, but a cursory look around
24:51the property is now fully legal. They begin by searching her backyard and cars.
25:00Someone's gotta search the inside. Who's with her?
25:04Help. Huh?
25:06Help's with her. Oh, help. Help's with her.
25:10I'm gonna see my-
25:22I'm gonna see my-
25:26After coming up empty in the backyard, they check the last remaining spot, Carol's Garage.
25:46Boyfriend's here.
25:51He's stuck.
25:54Just want to look up here.
25:56Hey.
25:57Did you open that?
26:02It should fit in here.
26:06I mean...
26:07Oh, bloody towels.
26:08Oh, alright.
26:09What did you say?
26:10Bloody towels.
26:11There's in here.
26:12It's all...
26:13She's in there.
26:14She's in there.
26:15Oh, she's in there.
26:16Open up.
26:17Let's see.
26:18Hold on.
26:19I don't know.
26:20Hold on.
26:21Don't go there.
26:22I don't know.
26:23I'm not just...
26:24What?
26:25No.
26:26Oh, he's looking.
26:27He's looking.
26:28I don't...
26:29No, nothing.
26:30I opened up that grave then and it's full of bloody towels and it stinks like a dead body.
26:35Are you kidding me?
26:36Swear to God.
26:37There's a bloody pillow in here.
26:38Is this what?
26:39Yeah.
26:40There's a bloody pillow in here.
26:41Is this what?
26:42Where?
26:43hmm
26:49huh for what if it's in there
26:51Bodic or what
26:53if they're searching for
26:55there's a bloody pillow in here
26:57ready
26:59yeah
27:01there's a body in there
27:03you can see the legs from the far corner
27:05okay
27:07I'll go get the thing up there
27:09somebody said he was back here
27:11he needs to see
27:13that's the boyfriend he just showed
27:15up we've been looking for him
27:21hi lieutenant
27:23um
27:25I just opened up a big
27:27plastic storage bin and
27:29smelled really bad it was full of blood
27:31and towels and you can see a body
27:33in there so
27:35that's kind of where we're at
27:37we hooked her bring her in
27:39everybody was saying people the brothers we need to
27:41find out what they were telling officers because they were saying
27:43he was like in the back back there
27:45yesterday
27:47he was coming and going
27:49there is still moisture
27:51on the top of that
27:53I open it and there's still moisture on the top
27:55so that's not been in there long
27:57and there was somebody we got to talk to over there
27:59they said hey you know the door was open
28:01yesterday and he was coming and going
28:03and then all of a sudden his car was gone
28:05who's boyfriend is it
28:07this is the carol
28:09carol's
28:11i say we bring him in
28:13not only had they found patricia's deceased
28:15body in the storage bin
28:17but the body still wasn't dry
28:19meaning the murder couldn't have been more
28:21than two months ago as john originally
28:23suspected this terrifying
28:25scene couldn't have made the truth more
28:27clear carol ray had
28:29had killed her mother and had been covering it up for weeks
28:33however she may not have been the only one involved in this
28:36ricky had been staying at the house for months now
28:38and the cops believe he had to have known about the murder
28:41if he'd been living beside it the entire time
28:43with this in mind police place carol under arrest immediately
28:47and detain ricky too
28:49carol
28:50why don't you stand up for me
28:52you're on the change of your bag okay
28:56i think you know why we're going but
28:58i suggest you know what i think about what you need to tell us okay
29:02i might have uh my pop
29:07next on me over there
29:09following carol and ricky's arrest
29:11both would sit in a jail cell while they waited for detectives to arrive at the station
29:15multiple hours later they would bring carol in for her first interrogation
29:22obviously carol we're here to talk to you about what's going on here
29:26the further we let this keep crawling
29:28the further it's going to get
29:30without you being able to
29:32you know
29:33we shed some light on this okay
29:35the goal for this interrogation is not to get carol to confess
29:38because she obviously did it
29:40but to determine a motive
29:42and figure out if ricky was also involved
29:45if i say something and it comes out wrong
29:48or something like this
29:49i don't want to use it
29:50because it's like an accident
29:53i'm just
29:54you're so excited
29:55i can explain it
29:56you explain the truth
29:59and it will come out as the truth
30:01i don't believe so
30:02i'm not i can't give you advice
30:04but if you want to tell your story
30:06you can tell it how it is
30:07i don't have to ask any questions
30:09if you want to get it out
30:10you can do that
30:11at the same time once i tell your rights
30:14if you don't want to talk
30:15you don't have to talk
30:16that night we're sleeping between 1 a.m. and 4 a.m. in the morning
30:26and i heard loud baby my daughter and i were sleeping on the couch
30:31anyways there was a big crash
30:34and it sounded like someone was breaking through the glass window
30:38or breaking down the door in the living room
30:40i cried like i was running down the hallway
30:43and i had my train finger on the trigger like an idiot
30:46but i went not running but walking fast down the hallway
30:51and i hit with my right foot
30:54and it went off
31:00do anything and i shook her shoulder and then i heard gurgling
31:04and i screamed loud
31:06and pulled her on the floor
31:08and i noticed that
31:09and the parents can't look coming out of her mouth
31:13but i find somebody hit
31:15broke in the window
31:17or something like that
31:18where there was a huge loud crash
31:21if a suspect is highly emotional when recalling an event
31:25they will often have trouble remembering certain details in that moment
31:28you'll often notice the suspect unable to form full sentences and stuttering in their speech
31:33but carol shows none of this
31:35while crying she manages to form a detailed timeline of how she killed patricia
31:40this implies that her story of events may be inaccurate
31:43and the murder wasn't a mistake like she claims
31:47now that they've heard it however
31:48the detectives would be able to search for evidence that explicitly countered this story
31:52and that didn't take them long at all
31:54the very next day they brought carol back out of her cell and into the interrogation room again
32:00throughout this interview see if you can spot the information that the detectives found specifically for this conversation
32:06and watch how they use it to break her story apart
32:09going onto what you said yesterday
32:11i know you said you're walking down the hallway rather quickly if you heard a noise
32:15and the gun and the river
32:18you're walking the owls right there you tripped
32:21and the gun hit your finger on the trigger
32:24and the gun went off correct?
32:26okay
32:27you saw your mom bleeding
32:29and then
32:30oh
32:31i thought you said you saw coming out of her mom
32:33i thought you said you saw coming out of her mom
32:35i thought i laid early on
32:38they freaked me out
32:39and they dropped it
32:40and i explained that it was a little later
32:42i had a much better head
32:44shoulder issue
32:45called her name
32:46and i told her name
32:47because she was pregnant
32:49and she was in suspect
32:51and she was verbally dispelled
32:52and she was going to start trickling my mind
32:55the cops are clearly trying to come across as understanding and compassionate to carol
33:00but if their main goal was to make her feel comfortable
33:02they wouldn't have sat her in the corner of the room
33:05and positioned themselves between her and the door
33:08they want to eventually make her feel so cornered and pressured
33:11that she lets go of the truth
33:13so for now
33:14this nice guy demeanor is a complete act for the detective to build rapport
33:18as he tries to get her to talk as much as possible
33:21so after that happened
33:24obviously you found your mom
33:26in the container
33:28in the garage
33:29now
33:31obviously my concern is
33:32i kind of understand how she got there
33:34but
33:35you gotta explain to me
33:36because to me it seems that your back and everything that you could do is by yourself
33:39so
33:40so can you walk me through i understand
33:42obviously
33:43panic
33:44everything's on ten
33:46you're freaking out
33:47and
33:48it's your mother you love
33:49right
33:50and so
33:51baby is waking up
33:53okay can you kind of walk me through the minutes after
33:56all that happened
33:57let me ask you this was ricky there that night
34:00no
34:01do i have a friend he was always frank
34:03no
34:04no
34:05i don't you don't have to give him a little can walk too
34:07you choose the angel of christmas
34:09okay
34:10remember an important part of this interrogation was to figure out if carol's boyfriend ricky was also involved to any extent
34:17at the moment carol is claiming that he wasn't on the scene at all as they'd recently had a number of arguments
34:22the cops would have a chance to interview him later on but for now there's one question regarding him that they just can't seem to get their heads around
34:29they can't seem to get their heads around
34:31okay so i was just sleeping and doing ricky wasn't there
34:34mhm
34:35mhm
34:36mhm
34:37mhm
34:38mhm
34:39mhm
34:40mhm
34:41mhm
34:42mhm
34:43mhm
34:44mhm
34:45mhm
34:46mhm
34:47mhm
34:48mhm
34:49mhm
34:50mhm
34:51mhm
34:52mhm
34:53mhm
34:54mhm
34:55mhm
34:56mhm
34:57mhm
34:58mhm
34:59mhm
35:00mhm
35:01mhm
35:02mhm
35:03mhm
35:04mhm
35:05mhm
35:06mhm
35:07mhm
35:08mhm
35:09mhm
35:10mhm
35:11mhm
35:12mhm
35:13mhm
35:14mhm
35:15mhm
35:16She moved anywhere before the garage, directly in the garage.
35:22So this is where I'm concerned with Ricky, your mom, and I know this is a hard detail
35:30to get through, but picking up your mom, there's no way you're picking up.
35:34How did you do that by yourself?
35:36You're saying Ricky's not there.
35:40Did Ricky come over on help?
35:42You haven't helped you both.
35:45Are you afraid to tell us you're afraid of Ricky?
35:49You don't have to do it for us to be afraid of problems.
35:52They're scared of anyone.
35:53Carol remained completely silent for almost 30 seconds after she was asked this question.
35:59The cops are right to assume that she's scared, but it might not be for the reasons they think.
36:04She could be scared of Ricky and the consequences of implicating him in the crime, but she could
36:09also be terrified of the situation she's in.
36:12She's going to jail for a very long time.
36:15There's no escaping that anymore, and that's a scary reality for her.
36:19Whatever the reason is though, the cops are still doing their best to give her a moral
36:22excuse or justification for what she did so she'll talk a little more.
36:27She panicked and anyone would have done the same.
36:30The best thing she can do to make things right is to tell them exactly what happened.
36:35I mean, you know, people panic.
36:36People make mistakes.
36:37Yeah, I mean, you know, you know what happens most often when you flee from an accident,
36:42you know, it happens all the time when people panic, right?
36:49The cops are really focusing on Carol's inability to physically move Patricia to the garage.
36:54As to them, it was a clear sign that somebody else had to be involved.
37:01But at this point, they're not getting anywhere.
37:14Unfortunately, this isn't conclusive enough evidence to implicate anyone else.
37:17And it's not getting Carol to talk.
37:19But that's okay, because the detectives have one piece of evidence that they've been saving
37:24for this very moment.
37:26That could prove without a doubt that everything Carol said so far has been a total lie.
37:32The other thing I wanted to bring up is, yeah, I think she did not.
37:37She did not.
37:38She did not.
37:39She did not.
37:40She did not.
37:41She did not.
37:42She did not.
37:43She did not.
37:44She did not.
37:45She did not.
37:46She did not.
37:47She did not.
37:48She did not.
37:49She did not.
37:49She did not.
37:50She did not.
37:51She did not.
37:52They found some puncture wounds to her neck.
37:55And three puncture wounds.
37:57Not an old scar, but actual fresh puncture wounds.
37:59For her neck.
38:00How did those get?
38:03Oh yeah.
38:04Dr.
38:05Dr.
38:06Dr.
38:07Dr.
38:08Dr.
38:09Dr.
38:10Dr.
38:11Dr.
38:13Dr.
38:14Dr.
38:15You know what I'm saying? I'm saying, I don't know, maybe she was suffering or anything like that.
38:30Here's what I don't want to get caught.
38:32Once they tell us exactly how deep they were, if it was a cause of death, we could be really...
38:41So we have to get everything out here now to try to do something with those wounds that don't cause those wounds or anything like that.
38:49So I want you to think right now what could have possibly caused those puncture wounds in her brain.
38:54I don't know if she's been testing or anything like that. I don't care when she's been testing.
39:01So my marriage, it was like 19th.
39:05It was like a puncture. At the end of the night, there's something.
39:10A gun accidentally going off and killing someone.
39:14Unlikely, but believable.
39:17But two fresh deep knife wounds that Carol hasn't mentioned a single time?
39:23It's going to be extremely hard to explain this one away.
39:26Not only does this imply the murder was completely intentional,
39:30but the fact that Carol hasn't mentioned it means that she knew that was the case and wanted to try to cover that part up.
39:37Again, I don't want to put words in your mouth.
39:40I don't want you to implicate anybody that's not implicated.
39:43That'll get you in more trouble.
39:45That'll get you in more trouble.
39:46But as we sit and investigate and continue to investigate in the days and weeks most to come,
39:53more things are going to come up.
39:55I'm pretty certain of it.
39:57Did Rick know eventually what happened?
40:00Not to my knowledge.
40:02Did Rick know your mom was in that?
40:04The mom that I don't know, I didn't tell her.
40:08Did he say anything to you that would lead you to believe that he knew?
40:12Did you actually not have a mistake?
40:15Did you actually mean to kill your mother?
40:18Well, I did not mean to kill my mother.
40:21Well, I'm not saying that.
40:22That's all I'm saying.
40:23I'm saying, do you understand where, when these things can't be answered?
40:27That's kind of odd.
40:28I don't know what happened.
40:29Can I ask you this?
40:31What's going on in control?
40:33Did you freak out after you shot her and she was still breathing and you wanted to make sure at this point smell good for her to be like this?
40:40Absolutely not.
40:41I don't want to go.
40:42Absolutely not.
40:43Did you, then maybe you kind of help her to see, like, it sounds terrible, but like, is she alive and she's out?
40:52I know, I'm not alone.
40:53Okay.
40:54At this point, the interrogation has been going on for over an hour, and Carol clearly doesn't intend to deviate from her story despite all the new evidence.
41:02The detectives are still no closer to obtaining a confession or any information about Ricky from her, so they figure they've got no choice but to speak to the man himself.
41:12So later that day, they bring Ricky in for an interview of his own and attempt to get the truth out of him, whatever it may be.
41:19Do you have any idea what's going on?
41:21No, I don't.
41:22Do you have nothing?
41:23Somebody at the house said something about Patty is not at her sister's house where Carol was telling me that she was at it.
41:33When was the last time you physically seen Patty?
41:36You guys called her Patricia?
41:37Yeah, Patty, Patricia.
41:39My name is Patty.
41:40I physically seen her about, I think it was like a month and a half ago.
41:47Already, Ricky is being much more open and giving much better answers to all of the detective's questions.
42:08He also seems exceedingly calm and as though he's just trying to help the officers out.
42:13Right now, he definitely isn't coming across as a murder accomplice or a blackmailer, but there's still plenty of time for the cops to catch him out.
42:20What about Carol?
42:21Did she have a job?
42:22Did she have a job?
42:23Did she not go anywhere?
42:24What did she do in most of her days?
42:27Most of her days are keeping Allison busy, cleaning the house, doing what she can.
42:33She needs some major surgeries.
42:36Any financial issues with you or Carol or Patty or anything?
42:41No.
42:42Nothing.
42:43Carol took care of the bills.
42:44Do you know where she had no money to if she's not working?
42:48She said she had a joint bank account of her mom.
42:52Has Carol been acting strange or suspicious to you or different?
42:56She's bipolar, so bitch.
42:59I always said that she was the world's greatest actress because I can't tell when she's been
43:04in fear or not.
43:05I've just been in condition to bipolar.
43:08They're both of my hairs and I've been caught in a lot of her webs before.
43:14I've been telling her she's been feeling more distant.
43:16Ricky, I mean, I don't really necessarily know you, obviously, but you seem pretty nervous to me.
43:21What's going on?
43:22Is there something you're nervous about?
43:25I mean, I'm nervous about anything.
43:27Where did you sleep?
43:28Mostly in the bedroom with Carol.
43:32Carol's bedroom.
43:33Where did, um...
43:34Sometimes on the couch.
43:36Definitely on the couch.
43:37We're in the house when you sleep.
43:39Um, mostly in her bedroom.
43:41Let me ask you about the garage.
43:43You ever go to the garage?
43:45Yeah.
43:46Ever?
43:47Crankly ever.
43:48When's the last time you think you've been in the garage or on the campus?
43:51Um, I think we went to a look for a screwdriver.
43:56She's, uh, hanging out.
43:59I think it was really upset her.
44:02It was been a couple of weeks.
44:04Did she have you go and move forward?
44:06Or did you go?
44:07No, she's been working.
44:09Compared to Carol's interrogation, this one seems extremely laid back and relaxed.
44:14It feels as though there's a big chance Ricky genuinely just doesn't know what's going on.
44:18However, the cops do pick up on the fact that he's a little nervous.
44:22He's finding it hard to look the detectives in the eyes and he seems a little soft-spoken.
44:27So, to clear things up fully, they decide to put the pressure on big time to see if he breaks.
44:32Ricky, we've got a problem.
44:34We've got a real big problem.
44:36I think you know what it is.
44:38And I think you need to be honest and upfront with us.
44:41So, we're going to give you the opportunity now to tell us what really happened.
44:45That's what happened?
44:47What happened?
44:48What happened?
44:49What I told you.
44:51I'm not talking about the little details we've been asking.
44:54I'm talking about with Patty.
44:56Patty, I don't know.
44:58She's been on her sister's house as far as I know.
45:00We know Patty's deceased.
45:02Patty's got a gunshot wound to her.
45:05And she was found in a tote in that garage.
45:08So, you have to tell us everything you know so you don't communicate yourself any more than this or him.
45:13Because here's the thing, Ricky.
45:15There's things, there's investigative tools we have.
45:18We're going to find out exactly when she died, where he were when she died.
45:23Which I'm betting you were in that house.
45:25And you know exactly what happened.
45:27No, I don't.
45:29No.
45:30I never had a problem with Patty.
45:33I'm not saying you had a problem with her.
45:35I'm not saying that at all.
45:37You know something.
45:39I don't.
45:40I don't know anything.
45:42I swear.
45:43You don't know this woman.
45:45This woman, Carol.
45:47She has fucked up my head.
45:49She has cheated on me, behind my back, without me knowing about it.
45:54The only way I found out about it was tripping over.
45:58Stop finding it unaccident.
45:59Her showing me something on her phone.
46:00Then all of a sudden, I love you too, baby, pops up on her phone.
46:01Why are you withing her?
46:02We went to Wisconsin this year.
46:03Trying to make things work.
46:04Because I love her.
46:05I love the house.
46:06And that's how she's like, oh.
46:07I really do.
46:08This is not the reaction a guilty person would give in this position.
46:23He's never defensive, and he never gets annoyed.
46:25He just tries to explain things exactly as they are.
46:28He's not upset that he's been caught.
46:30It feels like he's upset that he'd ever be accused of this.
46:33He also gave a few pieces of information that could be backed up by the detectives,
46:36such as the fact that Carol had been cheating on him, and that they'd been in therapy.
46:41In just five minutes, detectives went from assuming him to be the main accomplice to completely discounting him as a suspect.
46:48Carol, however, completely stayed in the spotlight, and it was eventually assumed that she acted alone and with intent in Patricia's murder.
46:57It was determined that Carol killed Patricia all the way back in November and hid her body for roughly two months before John had caught on to her act.
47:05Although Carol never verbally confessed to the crimes, she was charged with first-degree murder, felony use of a firearm, and larceny of $20,000 or more.
47:14She faces life in prison.
47:16Ricky was let go with no charges.
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