00:00Your report says the key to countering China's grey zone activity lies in legitimacy and addressing them through norms.
00:07Can you explain what it means in practice?
00:10For a democratic country, it is very important that you address these issues followed by the international norm.
00:15Essentially, you really need to rely on the existing tool and the existing norm to uphold your legitimacy.
00:22And this is very important not just for the international audience, but also very important for your domestic audience.
00:27And so you need to make sure that your policy is correct, it's done on a very reliable basis and follow the norm.
00:35You also suggest policymakers should gather solid proof that the vessels belong to the grey zone actors.
00:41For example, China. Why is that important?
00:45There is a very high threshold of legal attribution.
00:47You need to make sure that that vessel is conducted by a grey zone state actor.
00:52So while this report, we do consider that this is legally possible to erase the countermeasure to prevent.
01:01So while the extent of the countermeasure is still debatable and this should be determined on a case-by-case basis,
01:08but what is certain is that you really need to make sure that you have the right case.
01:13What are some of the biggest challenges you've found in how Taiwan could counter China's grey zone activity, like cutting undersea cables?
01:22The grey zone activity is like a catch-all phrase.
01:24You can definitely sweep everything under that, just call it a grey zone activity.
01:29So you want to address the whole idea of grey zone activity, you consider this is a very extraordinary measure.
01:35I think we need to understand the issue correctly, we don't simply just frame it as a grey zone activity.
01:42You need to have a more concrete intelligence, and also you need to realize you have available tools under the international norm to address this issue as neutral and as actionable.
01:53But you need to have more information so you can gather the momentum and you can gather the consensus.
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