00:00Thank you. The chair now recognizes herself for five minutes of questions. Mr. Shirley,
00:08we've heard from numerous stakeholders over the last few months that the Marine Mammal
00:12Protection Act needs desperately needs reform. What do you think is the most important reform
00:19we could make to the MMPA? Thank you. I appreciate that question. And again, the discussion
00:27draft that's being looked at and all that that entails, I've been able to take a deep
00:31dive into that and I appreciate the opportunity to do so. This is a very, as has been stated
00:38by everyone, a very important act that has led efforts for over 50 years on how we're
00:44going to do that. And I think as I read the bill, having some flexibility built in there
00:50on how the service can work with partners and work with industry to be able to conserve
00:55marine mammal populations and continue to thrive honestly and how we do that is the part that
01:02I think we can continue to work on. Okay. One of the issues that we continually
01:07hear about is unnecessary delay in the issuance of incidental take regulations or incidental
01:14harassment authorizations. How important is it for this process to work in a timely manner?
01:20Yeah. Again, as has been mentioned, the Fish and Wildlife Service does not want to be the
01:26reason why projects are being held up or things are not moving forward or communities are struggling.
01:33We need to make sure that we do our job and make sure that it's done effectively and do it
01:38in a timely manner. And I think that's all part of some of what we can be looking at in this
01:43draft. So over the last couple of years of being in Congress working on grizzly delisting
01:49primarily, one of the things that has struck me is that a lot of people do not understand
01:55how the Endangered Species Act or even the MMPA actually work and especially with the Endangered
02:00Species Act. For example, with the grizzly bear recovery, they were listed as threatened in 1975.
02:07The recovery goal was around 500 bears. We met that almost three decades ago. We have over
02:131,100 bears. The greater Yellowstone ecosystem is actually saturated with bears. According to the
02:20previous administration's Fish and Wildlife Service, they've moved well beyond their historical range,
02:26creating numerous problems in Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho. And one of the reasons that I give a
02:33little bit of this background is the state of Wyoming has spent over a million dollars on grizzly bear
02:37recovery, whereas the Fish and Wildlife Service, in contrast, has spent perhaps thousands on recovery.
02:44The state of Wyoming has over nine individuals in the Game and Fish Department dedicated specifically
02:49to grizzly bear recovery and protection, which demonstrates that it's typically the states
02:55that are actually managing this wildlife and protecting these wildlife species and populations.
03:02We don't have tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of Fish and Wildlife Service
03:06folks out on the ground in Wyoming or Nebraska or Montana or Colorado or Utah.
03:11It's actually the state agencies like where you came from. You served for decades as the state
03:16wildlife manager. And isn't it true that states have a trust responsibility, actually an actual trust
03:22responsibility, to effectively manage wildlife for future generation, which includes providing accurate
03:29and transparent data related to the health of wildlife populations. Isn't that correct?
03:34Yes, that's absolutely correct. And would you agree with me that in terms of wildlife management,
03:39it is typically the states, even when we're dealing with an endangered or threatened species,
03:43that takes the primary role in making sure we're protecting those species?
03:47Yeah, again, as you mentioned, my experience there. And again, the service in my role in Utah has been a great
03:55contributing partner. But bottom line is the work is landing at the state level to get those things done. And we've had good
04:03relationships there and been able to get things done. And that's been important. But we also need to be
04:09cognizant of how the act is used. And that we're, when we meet recovery goals or come up with plans or
04:17work with our constituents, we need to be fair to that process and make sure it's equitable in what we're
04:23asking them to do, as well as we're going to hold up our part of the bargain there.
04:28Well, I assume that you have had the opportunity to actually work on certain wildlife management plans
04:35in your career. And in doing so, you develop those, your office developed those to make sure that you
04:40could protect a recovered population and whatever that species might be. Is that fair?
04:45Yeah, absolutely. We in Utah itself, there's a Virgin River recovery program, there's a June
04:50Sucker recovery program, there's a Utah Prairie recovery, Prairie dog, not Prairie itself, the Prairie
04:57dog recovery program. And all those are those are state of Utah employees that are working on the
05:03ground to make those. So with that mind, shouldn't Congress and the service ensure that the states as
05:08well as tribes and local governments are included at all stages of the ESA decision, the decision making
05:14process? Yes, I think that's the goal. All right, thank you very much for that.
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