- 8 months ago
A look at a program at the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute where students of all races confront each other with their racial anger and frustration.
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00:01Frontline is a presentation of the Documentary Consortium.
00:07Tonight on Frontline, the U.S. military is the most integrated institution in the country,
00:14and it runs the most intense race relations school in the world.
00:18The lady came out and said, they can go in, but you can't go, because I don't know you, okay?
00:24Correspondent David Marinus tracks the students through a 16-week course
00:28as they confront each other with their racial anger and frustration.
00:32And we always go back to the past, what happened in the past.
00:34This happened back then, this happened back then.
00:36It's not what's happening today. It's time to change.
00:39He's sitting here, like, he don't know that all this is going on in the world.
00:44And I don't understand that. All you got to do is look. It's there. It's happening.
00:49Look at the whole big picture. And if you can't see it, then you're blind.
00:54Hold on a second.
00:55Tonight, a powerful journey across America's racial divide.
00:59The color of your skin.
01:08With funding provided by the financial support of viewers like you.
01:14And by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
01:20This is Frontline.
01:40Patrick Air Force Base Florida.
01:42It is January 16th, 1991. Just hours before U.S. forces will launch the air war against Iraq.
01:53You're going through some experiences that you probably have never gone through before in your life.
02:01I want you to take some risk.
02:04This is the environment for it.
02:07Don't stop along the journey.
02:10Or take too long of a rest.
02:12Take the journey seriously.
02:14You're going to be asked, time and time again, how do you feel?
02:20If you answer back, I feel nothing.
02:23You're dead.
02:24As the military gears up for battle half a world away, these troops embark on another mission.
02:32It will take them across the dangerous psychological terrain of their own fear and prejudice.
02:37When we look at discrimination, when it deals with people that are in that out group, then that's the kind of discrimination that's very painful.
02:50That's that part that keeps racism working all the time.
02:54Another semester begins at the leading race relations school in the United States.
03:00It's called DIOMI, the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute.
03:06Come up with some stats.
03:08For 20 years, this school has trained officers and enlisted men and women to become equal opportunity advisors.
03:15They are front line troops in a struggle against discrimination.
03:19It is a struggle the military has not yet won, but is waging more diligently than any other institution in our society.
03:29I think we've made a lot of progress in the military as an institution over the last 20 years.
03:36I think part of that comes from the fact that we have a more captive audience in the military and I think we can do things that are more directive in nature.
03:44Lieutenant Colonel Mickey Collins is the director of academics at DIOMI and he was one of its first students.
03:51I do think that we have come a long way, you know, much faster than our counterparts in the corporate world or in civilian society in general.
04:01How do you explain that?
04:03Well, I think some people back in the early 70s made a commitment to try to bring equal opportunity into the military as a way of life.
04:13That commitment was born out of necessity, desperation really, out of the war in Vietnam.
04:20For the first time in Vietnam, all black and white soldiers went to battle side by side in fully integrated units.
04:36Alright, let's go.
04:37Alright, let's go.
04:38But as the war began to sour and racial tensions exploded back home, black and white troops turned on each other in a bloody internal war.
04:46Why, what the hell are you waiting for?
04:48Okay, on the right place, move!
04:49The officials report tonight that a fight involving black and white sailors broke out yesterday aboard the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk station...
04:53One of the worst racial disorders ever to take place on a military base in this country happened last night at Travis Air Force Base, north of San Francisco.
05:05In the states, training camps and air bases exploded in violent protest as black troops reacted to generations of unequal treatment.
05:14It's racism and the base commanders here, the base commanders everywhere, they don't compromise, they don't want to hear our gripes because they've got dogs and M-16s and fire engines to come down here on us.
05:27I think what they should have done was when it all started the weekend, they should have called them in and wiped them out then.
05:33The sides are clearly drawn and both expect more trouble.
05:37Military police at Travis remain in full combat gear.
05:40Bob Flick, NBC News reporting.
05:43In September 1971, the Department of Defense opened its own Race Relations Institute.
05:50Gene Johnson, a retired Air Force Chief Master Sergeant, was one of the original instructors.
05:57The mission then was to put out the fire.
05:59It was then, you know, we came in because the riots were going.
06:03It was to teach race relations education and to contain the riots so that we would have all of the people working together for the mission itself.
06:13And the mission was to be able to fly planes or for the ships to move, tanks to go and those kinds of things.
06:18And they still maintain their culture.
06:20More than 11,000 troops have trained at Diomi over the years.
06:24The course has expanded to include all forms of discrimination, including gender.
06:29But the military's most difficult task today, as it was two decades ago, is trying to bridge the gulf between white and black.
06:37What did he say about that?
06:39Race remains the most painful divide in American life.
06:43The reminders are everywhere, from police brutality in the streets of Los Angeles, to bitter fights over quotas and affirmative action in the halls of Congress.
06:54Three years ago, I set out to see if there was any place in America where whites and blacks were dealing with each other honestly and on equal terms.
07:02Most often, I found the racial dialogue played out in different rooms, blacks in one, whites in another, talking mostly to themselves.
07:12And then I discovered this school.
07:15Here, finally, I found a place where blacks and whites sit together, listening to one another, in the same room.
07:23Each day at Diomi, small interracial groups meet for several hours to discuss issues that nobody wants to talk about.
07:36For three months, in a room called the Fishbowl, we watched one of these groups, group one.
07:43Seven whites, six blacks, two Filipinos.
07:46Some volunteered for this course.
07:51Others got orders to attend.
07:54With the exception of the white upper middle class, a rare species in the volunteered force.
08:00Group one represents many of the voices of America in black and white, from Chicago, to Utah, to Alabama.
08:08I kind of got angry because of this.
08:10Because I can't really trace mine all the way back as far as you can.
08:14I feel proud because of it.
08:16One of the things that I thought once they said that was after society was starting to change and during the reconstruction period,
08:24how many of the families decided to leave what was considered the country now and migrate back to where they thought their impossible origins were from.
08:35So what you were saying is, you think, you're feeling that they should have went back to Africa?
08:41No, I just was curious as to what the percentages were.
08:46They decided, well, now we can do what we want to do.
08:50Would I want to be back with my original culture?
08:55If I look here right now, if I decide to go back to Africa and try to find somebody, how would I do this?
09:00I guess I come from Europe, but that's never been important.
09:03I'm American. That's something that's ever been important to me.
09:06Maybe I can't identify with what he's saying at all.
09:12Sergeant Smith, I just wondered if part of the reason you can't relate to that is because you've never experienced what a lot of other people have.
09:20You being a white person, you've never been oppressed, and you've never gone through any of this.
09:26Could that be part of the reason why you can't relate to it?
09:29I can understand it, but I can't identify with it.
09:33To me, it's not important where I came from.
09:35Naturally, I don't agree with slavery, and I can't say that I had my hand in the cookie jar.
09:41I didn't have anything to do with that back then.
09:43I have to live with the way society is now.
09:46Trainers lead the discussions and daily exercises inside the fishbowl.
09:51Other DIOMI officials monitor the action from a lab room behind a two-way mirror.
09:56The group sessions seem like vital extemporaneous plays, yet they are carefully directed to balance confrontation with understanding.
10:05The small group is kind of the cement, I think, to what we do.
10:09You know, we can put them in the auditorium and give them all the academic, all the book knowledge in the world,
10:16but I think if we don't give them an atmosphere where they can process all of that information
10:22and share their own experiences and their own ideas and their own feelings, I think we'd be wasting our time.
10:29Suddenly, I was out washing my car, and I was waxing a 65-year-old retired Air Force guy.
10:3526 years in the Air Force came up to me and said,
10:38he started talking to me at random.
10:40Normally, I wouldn't talk to him, but he called me Colette.
10:45Army Sergeant Eugene Bickley emerges early as the most forceful member of Group 1.
10:50Racism is not a new subject for him.
10:53He learned his first lessons 30 years ago in Alabama.
10:57He said, well, one of my best friends was Colette.
11:01I remember when I guess I was about eight or nine, and I wanted to go to this carnival,
11:06my mother told me that you can't go to it, and I couldn't understand why.
11:10At that time, I didn't know the difference between black and white.
11:13I thought everybody was the same.
11:15And it was really a shock to me when she said, I can't go, and I want to know why.
11:20She said, well, you're black, and it's for whites.
11:24And, you know, I still didn't understand it.
11:27You know, like, she sat there and she tried to explain it to me.
11:29But as a kid, I wanted to go.
11:31I didn't understand there was no difference between black and white.
11:34I didn't know my skin color caused me not to be able to go someplace.
11:38And then you also know that black people were tagged with the slang name nigger.
11:43So if they were working like that...
11:45There are no taboo subjects for group one.
11:48Early on, they explore the ugly side of race and language.
11:52Anybody ever heard the term nigger rig?
11:55They did it on automobiles.
11:58I never heard it until I got in Hawaii.
12:01It was people I was cutting grass, and then they came up in the company.
12:07This one dude said, well, we ought to nigger rig, you know.
12:10That was the first time I ever heard that.
12:15I heard jerry rig in your home, but I never heard nigger rig.
12:18That's a real car.
12:19Take clothes, hang a wire, tying up the muffler.
12:23Yeah, that's what he was doing.
12:24He had a long one.
12:25He was going to tie up the...
12:27One of the screws came on, so he was going to...
12:29He had his little nuts.
12:31Nigger toes.
12:32Nigger toes.
12:33I didn't think of his.
12:34In college.
12:35I went to military college.
12:36Talk about...
12:37This guy was from Savannah.
12:38He says, when y'all tie y'all's ties,
12:39you know, don't tie those big nigger knots on your ties.
12:42And he wasn't thinking about what he was saying,
12:44because he said it all the time.
12:46And there was, you know, we had about 10% black, so...
12:49Nothing going too well.
12:50Nothing going too well.
12:52Well, that, you know, something else about...
12:54I talked to my girl on the telephone, and she said,
12:56I miss you so much.
12:57And I said, why?
12:58She said, cause a grandbaby keep putting nigger flats in my head.
13:00I like cornrows.
13:01I like cornrows.
13:02Cornrows?
13:03No, it's not cornrows.
13:04They like cornrows.
13:05The braids.
13:06Listen, listen.
13:07A cornrow is flat to your head.
13:08They stick out?
13:09It could, but you can tuck it under it, you know.
13:10And what's it called, a plat?
13:11A plat.
13:12It was alright for me to say it, or her to say it, but if he said it, he said it, it
13:15was a fight.
13:16I think Richard Poirot stopped using it.
13:17He used to use it constantly, all the time, throughout his life.
13:18And when he made his trip to Africa, he stopped using it.
13:19Cause he learned a little bit more about himself.
13:20And he stopped using it.
13:21Cause he won't, he doesn't accept the time anymore.
13:22And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and.
13:23I think that's, that's got a lot to do with it as far as I'm concerned.
13:37Cause it's got a lot to do with the fact that I don't use it.
13:42Because he won't, he doesn't accept the time anymore.
13:45And, and I think that's, that's got a lot to do with it as far as I'm concerned.
13:49Because it's got a lot to do with the fact that I don't use it.
13:53And I don't like to be around people that use it.
13:55I don't care who they are.
13:57During the last five years, Klan membership has nearly doubled.
14:01There are now an estimated 10,000 active Klan members in 22 states.
14:06And I looked at it and I was like, well, amazed.
14:08Tell me what you see right there, Professor Anderson.
14:10Whites.
14:11What?
14:12Are they white what?
14:14White males.
14:15Until you get down here, it's all white males.
14:17This is the Department of Defense.
14:21So as we look at it in the eyes from the book, The White Man's Burden, it states in that.
14:28I'm giving them something that they have not known for years.
14:35That's been distorted in a history book.
14:38I'm giving them research.
14:41I'm now in an environment where they're forced to learn, where they're forced to hear.
14:47For non-whites to blend in.
14:48It's not always easy being a white male at the Army.
14:52Day after day, you keep hearing that you're a member of the most powerful club in America.
14:56In a way in which the white male club can resist change.
15:03I'm pretty much tired of hearing about the white male club.
15:06I had never heard of that term prior to coming to here.
15:11Sergeant Bob Hustleton joined the Army right out of high school.
15:15His roots are working class.
15:17Both his grandfathers bloodied their knuckles deep in the Pennsylvania coal mines.
15:22His motto?
15:23I don't owe anybody anything.
15:24It feels like because I am a member of, I guess, the Caucasian race, and for whatever
15:33reason, I'm being stereotyped as a member of the white male club, and for some odd reason
15:39I have this power.
15:41What are you trying to get at?
15:42What he's saying is, the majority sets the rules.
15:45He didn't say majority.
15:46But that's what he means.
15:47He said white society.
15:49He just said strictly society.
15:50And society's made up of all.
15:52What is the majority in this country?
15:56I don't know.
15:56Tell me.
15:57White.
15:57White.
15:58And they're the only ones that have any say in society.
16:01Majority sets the rules.
16:03Well, that's your perception then.
16:06That's the way it is.
16:06What you're saying is you're talking for every white in the United States right now.
16:10No.
16:11That's what it sounds like.
16:13And no one else has a voice in it in society.
16:16That's what I'm understanding.
16:17I think you take it on an individual basis.
16:19No, I'm taking it as the white society.
16:23Yeah.
16:23I don't have any say in it.
16:25Am I part of white society?
16:26Yep.
16:27And I'm in the majority of the society.
16:29How come I don't have a say?
16:30You do have a say.
16:31Can you be labeled as black?
16:33I'm sitting in the same box as you.
16:34Can you be labeled as black?
16:36Can you be labeled as black?
16:38Can you actually go, if all files are black?
16:41And we went someplace and we said we got five black guys here, right?
16:45Or five black people.
16:46No, naturally I can't say that I would be black when there's this.
16:48So what would you be considering then?
16:50A white guy.
16:51As the debate unfolds, Sergeant Hustleton gives voice to the frustrations of many white males
16:57in the post-civil rights era.
16:59They say they're being stereotyped.
17:01They chafe at affirmative action and other social policies based on group rather than individual
17:07characteristics.
17:08Is that what we're talking about?
17:09For generations, white males used color to their benefit.
17:13Now when they feel threatened, they argue the loudest for a colorblind society.
17:17It seems like to me that the perception right now is, take me for example, I just happen
17:26to be white due to no, you know, I had nothing to do with that fact.
17:30So I wake up in the morning and I go to the mirror and I look and I says, gee, it's going
17:34to be a nice white day because I'm in the white society and I'm a member of a white male
17:40club and we run the show, so what can I do to exert my power on everyone that is not
17:47white?
17:48So the white this, the white that, but then when we talk about whites, we're like, we
17:53don't even get tested on it because we're, I guess the white society is not important
17:58to learn anything about, but the rest of the societies are.
18:02Don't even get tested on that.
18:03We don't spend a half day on learning about white culture because, what, we don't have
18:09a culture, but everyone else has a culture.
18:12So what's, I think you missed something.
18:15I thought it was understood that we live in a white culture.
18:18We do.
18:19Yeah.
18:20Everything that happens, everything that I do, everything that you do, everywhere you
18:24go, centered just around white culture.
18:26White society.
18:26I don't believe it.
18:28You think all the guys feel this way?
18:30I don't know.
18:31Are you going to tell all the blacks that when you leave here, that what you learn, that
18:35there, you live in a white society, when a white person comes to you for an equal opportunity
18:41to complain, what's the first thing you can say?
18:44He's white society.
18:45Sorry about that.
18:46But if a minority comes in there and says, well, yeah, okay, sit down, have a seat, let
18:51me listen.
18:51It has to be something to do with the white.
18:53Is that what you're trying to say?
18:55That's what my perceptions are.
18:56I didn't say nothing.
18:57That's what my perceptions are coming from this course.
19:00I didn't make a comment on it.
19:02I just, I just, you know, I saw, I mean, like, I've noticed this about you each time
19:07this comes up, you know.
19:08You turn red, you know, with the normal withdrawal, you say, I ain't got nothing to say.
19:13Yeah.
19:13If there's anything else coming.
19:15But at least this time you told me something to say enough.
19:18It pisses me off.
19:19I feel like we've accomplished something today.
19:21Anytime the black and white subject comes up, I'm open, you know, I say whatever I feel,
19:27you know, but I don't think everybody's like, and this is frustrating to me because I don't
19:32want to really know how people think about me, you know.
19:35I want you to be straight up front.
19:36Then I can deal with you better than I can if you're holding something back.
19:42From the first day, Sergeant Hustleton has been Group 1's most reluctant member.
19:47Race to him is not a social or institutional issue, but solely a personal one.
19:52He insists he's never had problems with blacks, so what's all the fuss about?
19:56I never was really given any specific guidance as to what to think about different races.
20:04I kind of like to make my own observations and determine what's good or bad in any situation.
20:12I've never had any problems with or considered myself being a racist.
20:17I pretty much get along with anyone.
20:19I don't know.
20:20I'm not gonna sing a song.
20:22I might sing a song.
20:23Yeah, you too.
20:27I'm not gonna sing a song.
20:28I'm not gonna sing.
20:32We defend with equal vigor the right to burn the flag as the right to wave it.
20:38If you want to prevent a flag from burning, do it with fire-retardant chemicals and not with restrictive legislation which limits our rights and freedoms.
20:49What's the controversy over?
20:51Petty Officer Kelly Anderson is the closest thing Group 1 has to a white liberal.
20:56Anderson joined the Navy nine years ago to escape the coal mines of Huntington, Utah.
21:02He was the 15th of 18 children in a Mormon family.
21:05I have little patience with people who take for granted the Bill of Rights.
21:10Years ago, Anderson rejected Mormon doctrines that excluded and denigrated blacks.
21:15He's not always proud of the white male role in history.
21:19Typically in history shows that it's been white males that have been doing all the oppression and it's their power that's, and their prejudice that's the cause of the discrimination that's occurred.
21:35I'm sometimes ashamed of what the white man has done to the various groups.
21:42Feel good.
21:44Anderson tries to establish a rapport with black soldiers in Group 1, especially Sergeant Evelyn Johnson.
21:51Sergeant Evelyn Johnson, an Army Corp reporter from South Carolina, also grew up in a large family, one of 15 children.
22:00She's always felt the impact of the color of her skin in the military and back home.
22:05When I was growing up, my sisters and brothers thought that I was treated special because I was light.
22:21And my parents, I had every other sister and brother, one's light and one's dark.
22:27And then just recently, one of them mentioned that, you know, all the dark-skinned ones quit school and went back and finished.
22:36And all the light-skinned ones went straight through school.
22:39And it was kind of...
22:40When I first joined, I had a hard time adapting to the military because I felt like I was always being discriminated against.
22:49And people throughout my career said, you need to go to this school, you need this course, and you'll understand.
22:56It'll make you a better person.
22:58During an exercise in the first month, members of Group 1 choose the classmate they feel closest to.
23:05Anderson picks Johnson.
23:07Speak to me as an equal, and that makes me feel appreciated.
23:10I see her as a very strong source of information and support.
23:15We think a lot alike, an awful lot alike.
23:19And we see things most frequently the same.
23:24I feel closest to her.
23:26Johnson returns the compliment.
23:29I feel closest to you because you're easygoing, easy to talk to.
23:32I feel good when we hold conversations about anything.
23:36I feel that you appreciate me as a person.
23:38I feel comfortable.
23:39I feel respected because you're honest and candid.
23:43Boy, that's love.
23:45It's not just what happens in Group that sets this school apart.
23:52How many other places in America do you see whites and blacks study together, relax together, and draw one another out in settings where their cultures are shared and they meet as equals?
24:03I think people really get a good idea of how the cultures relate to each other and what the concerns of people that are different from them are.
24:15Keep smiling, keep smiling.
24:19Where are we?
24:20They always found our place.
24:23The more important things to me are those kind of informal social contacts where people can actually share.
24:32We don't do it socially in society in general.
24:35We do it more in the military, but we don't do it anywhere near as much as we should.
24:39Can you tell me what you have experienced that blacks have done to whites?
25:02I know that there are certain places that I can't go.
25:04Experience.
25:05Experience.
25:06There's places that I can't go.
25:08I know that for a fact.
25:09You experienced them?
25:09You went to those places and they told you, black told you, you can't come here?
25:13I knew better than go there.
25:14Oh, you heard.
25:15No, didn't anybody ever tell you that?
25:17I've been told, man, you can't come here because you're a nigger.
25:21Well, I was told in a club in the creek.
25:24I was playing basketball.
25:25This was in high school.
25:26I was playing basketball.
25:27I went to Klan, Alabama.
25:29The whole basketball team.
25:31The lady came out and said, they can go in, but you can't go.
25:35I had a white coat.
25:36She said, well, none of my team will go.
25:38But I was told because I was a nigger, okay?
25:41And I can tell you right now, I'm calling Alabama, the same thing is still happening there.
25:45So I'm telling you from experience, this is stuff that happened to me.
25:49I'm not telling you nothing out of it.
25:50Broke, somebody else told me.
25:53Now you tell me your experiences that black has done to you.
25:58I don't have it.
25:59By the eighth week, Group One is storming, releasing deeply embedded racial frustrations.
26:05The goal is to get it all out, one way or another.
26:10There are some people that dump it all.
26:12You know, all that baggage they've been carrying around for their entire life, their whole experience.
26:17They get to the point where they feel comfortable and they just dump it.
26:20And then they're through with it.
26:22And it's like a big burden being lifted off their shoulders.
26:26Some of them, they drop it out in little bits.
26:29It's always what white did to black.
26:31Do you have a certain conscience about it?
26:32No, I don't.
26:33But that's all I hear.
26:35Whites did this to black.
26:36Could it be that's all you choose to hear?
26:38Because other things are coming out of here.
26:41Let's talk organizations.
26:41We always talk about KKK, area nation, whatever.
26:45But aren't there black organizations that discriminate against whites?
26:48Are they out there?
26:49Do they exist?
26:50Why don't we ever learn about those?
26:51Have we ever learned about them?
26:53I've heard them mentioned once.
26:55One black organization mentioned once.
26:56It's other.
26:57I count.
26:57One black organization.
26:58They talked about Farrakhan and his group.
27:00That's the only organization I have heard discussed that is...
27:05Sergeant Glenn Smith has now become much more active in group one.
27:09Smith grew up in the deep south with negative feelings about blacks.
27:13I probably had the obvious stereotypes that people have.
27:21All blacks are lazy.
27:22All blacks, they don't work.
27:25They're all on welfare.
27:26They're all single mother families.
27:29And I'm sure I got that up on TV.
27:31TV depicted...
27:32As I was growing up, as I remember, TV depicted black people as being sort of ignorant and lazy.
27:38Sergeant, did I not tell you I was a racist?
27:40What, did I have the stereotypes about whites?
27:42Did I not tell you?
27:44But you never told me what those stereotypes was about blacks.
27:48Sergeant Huston, that's what I wanted to hear.
27:50I believe we have.
27:51I believe we've put them out on the floor.
27:53I regret the fact that I didn't have to tell you up there what my stereotypes was and what I call whites.
27:59But I can tell you that.
28:00I'm a man up the table, because I did.
28:03Well, I believe I did.
28:03But you never told me what you said.
28:05I believe I said something.
28:06You told me the other day.
28:07You were close to me the other day when we sat on and you said, you call a black a nigger and your parents whoop you about it.
28:13But you never said that in the class.
28:16You never said that you had said nigger.
28:20You never told me that.
28:21Until we got away.
28:22I don't know whether it was a group environment that bothered you.
28:26Now, I felt that, you know, at least we had got something come around and that you could tell me that, that you felt comfortable with me.
28:32But when we were in group, you never told me that.
28:34And I feel deprived.
28:36Group one's search for common ground succumbs to a scramble for safe footing.
28:40And the debate now turns on fundamentally different perceptions of reality.
28:46One side looks to yesterday, history.
28:49The other points to today and progress.
28:52Exactly.
28:53Exactly.
28:54And we always go back to the past.
28:56What happened in the past.
28:56This happened back then.
28:57This happened back then.
28:59It's not what's happening today.
29:00Because it's time to change.
29:02Because that's important.
29:03It happens today.
29:04Amen.
29:05Well, I understand we can learn.
29:06We can learn from history.
29:07I understand that.
29:08It's happening.
29:08But it's changing right now.
29:10You know, we can talk change.
29:12We can talk change.
29:12I welcome change.
29:14I welcome change.
29:15And we can talk change every day.
29:17But when I go back to Alabama or go home or go northern Florida or anywhere else and I still see the same things, you know, that hurts.
29:28It's a deep, deep feeling.
29:30And I can't come back in here.
29:32I mean, I come back here and we talk about this thing and you, well, I don't want to attack nobody, but it's being said that it's not happening.
29:43It's changed.
29:44It ain't changed.
29:45And if you think it's done change, like I said a while ago, you need to go back and look again because it happened.
29:52But it's changing right now.
29:54And to say that the blacks are the only ones that are discriminated against is wrong.
29:57I haven't said that the blacks were the only ones.
30:00That's what I do.
30:01Nobody never said that.
30:03I haven't heard anything about blacks doing this.
30:05See, see, see, this is another point now.
30:08Sergeant Vernon Stevens, a no-nonsense drill instructor, is Smith's counterpoint in Group 1.
30:14They're like bookends of perception on issues of race.
30:17School desegregation was a formative event in their teenage years.
30:23Stevens in Alabama, Smith in Florida.
30:25And sooner or later, I went to a school in Florida in the mid-70s.
30:30There was a lot of racial tension in the hallways.
30:33There was a lot of talk coming down the hallways and incidents, small incidents of people in fights one way or the other.
30:40Black against white, white against black.
30:41We kind of acted violently as something.
30:45But, you know, I think, like I said, we were expected to be like that way.
30:51They didn't want us to come to their school.
30:52They're only going to tear it up or this, that, that, and the other anyway.
30:56And that's exactly what we did.
30:57We went in there, and as soon as something was said that ticked us off or whatever happened, you know, we fulfilled their prophecy.
31:10I found as I grew older that that's really not the way of making change.
31:15Let's talk just the military.
31:17You don't think there's been a change between now and 20 years from now?
31:21Somewhere.
31:22It's not as much as outspoken as it was dealing with the most of those.
31:27You could go into the bathroom.
31:28Well, they moved us in a brand-new building in Vilsack, Germany.
31:32Our whole battalion was in a brand-new building.
31:35It wasn't a week that went by that you couldn't go and knock one latrine
31:38and see some kind of white racist graffiti on the wall.
31:44So that's telling me this is in Germany today.
31:46Could you go to your command?
31:47Today.
31:48The 1970s, though.
31:49Of course we wouldn't talk to black soldiers.
31:51You know what we did?
31:52You know what we had to do?
31:54You know what we had to do?
31:55After we cleaned the wall, we had to put guards on the latrine.
31:58This is happening today.
32:00Reality, you know.
32:03See, whose reality?
32:04Your reality or my reality?
32:06Life.
32:06I'm telling you what's happening.
32:07What's happened to me?
32:09Now you're telling me that my reality is wrong because my reality is not wrong.
32:12No, I didn't say that.
32:13I didn't say that your reality was wrong at all.
32:18I'm just saying what I said, I'm getting you from experiences.
32:23My feeling that I'm getting from Sergeant Stevens is he's telling me that his reality is the
32:29only reality and that my reality is wrong.
32:32That what I'm saying, I am blind.
32:34That was the term that was used.
32:36You are blind if you can't see that.
32:38And to me, he's telling me, that tells me you're wrong.
32:42I'm right.
32:43And I'm never going to tell Sergeant Stevens he's wrong.
32:45I believe what he says.
32:47Did I tell you you was wrong?
32:49You told me I was blind.
32:51What's the difference?
32:52I am telling you you're blind if you don't know that this is going on in the world.
32:55I don't see it the way you see it.
32:57I see, I know it's going on, but I don't see it the way you see it.
32:59Well, you didn't say it.
33:00You didn't say it.
33:00Therefore, I'm blind.
33:01You didn't say it.
33:02You didn't say it.
33:02You didn't say it.
33:02You knew it was going on.
33:03I ought to tell you that.
33:04I think that's the first time.
33:05Throughout Group 1's storming, Petty Officer Anderson has tried to lend a voice of moderation
33:10to the debate.
33:11He doesn't want to be lumped with his frustrated white male classmates.
33:15I thought I was put in a jail.
33:17They were amusing.
33:19I thought racism was on a downturn going away.
33:27And to think that that still exists and is that prevalent, it's kind of scary.
33:33But on the day trainer Efren Alcayo turns the discussion to the relationship between blacks
33:39and white liberals, it's Anderson's turn, and I'm a hot seat.
33:42To me, the white liberals go either way.
33:46Now what I see is the white liberals go, you know, whatever is beneficial to them.
33:50Yeah.
33:51They get something out of it there.
33:53Yeah.
33:54But the moment the times get hard or something like that, they turn it back.
33:59You know, that's ironic.
34:01I've heard that same thing about blacks.
34:04When times get hard, they turn it back.
34:06Oh, yeah.
34:07Blood's thicker than water.
34:08You ever heard that?
34:09I've heard the same thing about white liberals.
34:12Well, you know, you're bringing that out.
34:15And I'm like, that's exactly what I'm hearing.
34:17It's exactly the same thing.
34:19But I don't know.
34:20I'm trying to get a definition.
34:21Somebody give me a definition of white liberals.
34:24Sir John Johnson, may I ask.
34:25I didn't have a definition of white liberals.
34:27I was just interested to know from Petty Officer Anderson today.
34:31He said, I've heard that about blacks.
34:34And when we had the thing up on the board, was there any particular reason that you didn't put that up there?
34:42Yeah, because it wasn't brought to my mind.
34:45Oh, okay.
34:46This right now, just reminding me.
34:48Okay.
34:49You think you have advantage because you're white?
34:54Do I use an advantage?
34:56No.
34:56Do you think?
34:57Do I have an advantage?
34:58I don't know.
34:59I'm being told that I am.
35:00But do you think you got an OS on your sleeve there?
35:05Do you think you got that because, you know?
35:07Because I'm white?
35:08No.
35:11How come me?
35:12Why don't you sleep?
35:12I am a, I cannot be, you know, an OS.
35:17That's why I'm so lucky because I grew up in Utah.
35:20You have a good education.
35:22Well, I'm lucky because I grew up in Utah.
35:24Because my ancestors were chasing the hell out of Missouri.
35:28So I'm lucky.
35:29No, you didn't know I had a good education.
35:31You have a better education than something.
35:36Yeah, I've got a good education because this white society that you're telling me about
35:41chased my ancestors the hell out of Missouri and out of Illinois.
35:46So I've got, in that case, I'm lucky.
35:48I've got a good education.
35:50Do you think?
35:51My question is, do you think you have an advantage because of that?
35:55Being, getting a good education.
35:56Yeah, okay.
35:57I, yeah, I can thank the white society for chasing my ancestors out of Missouri.
36:01No, no.
36:02Out to Utah.
36:02So I could get a better education than Sergeant Gilbert.
36:06You over-exaggerated.
36:07But that's the point.
36:09Do I have an advantage?
36:11In my experience as a recruiter, I've seen a lot of minorities who cannot pass the test.
36:21Yeah, there is a possibility that I have some kind of advantage over someone else.
36:26All the minority males are more or less laying a guilt trip on him and he's falling for it.
36:34And, you know, I would think that because of his unique experience, because of his unique
36:40outlook, he would be able to deal with it on his own terms.
36:44But apparently, he's having a hard time being there.
36:47I, one point that you're, you're pushing to the side.
36:53Who's to say that if I were in the same situation, the same school with Sergeant Gilbert, and I
36:59went down to the recruiting station and took that exam, who's to say I still wouldn't get
37:03a better score?
37:04But my question is, because I studied harder or whatever, that Sergeant Gilbert has a chance
37:10to go to your school.
37:11He was on the side of town.
37:12That's why you have a chance to go to your school.
37:13But it didn't take some degree off.
37:14To where you came from.
37:16No, an individual going to the same school is, whether it be white, minority, whatever,
37:21two people going to the same school.
37:23One goes down there, takes the exam.
37:26And the other one, you know, one score is higher, obviously that's going to happen.
37:30Who studied harder?
37:32Who knows how to study?
37:33That's right.
37:35Oh, but it's the same school.
37:37It's the same education process.
37:39Oh, wait, but does it matter?
37:40Because you can keep hopping on your ancestors were pushed out of Missouri or wherever into
37:47Utah.
37:48Mm-hmm.
37:50My ancestors weren't even allowed to go to school.
37:53Wherever you went, Utah or Missouri, could you still not get an education?
37:59Yes.
37:59Because of your skin color.
38:01Did you not have an advantage?
38:02No, because, hold on a second.
38:05My ancestors set up their own school.
38:06So why didn't your ancestors set up the school?
38:08This way.
38:09We're in the lab.
38:10We're in the lab.
38:10Why?
38:11We're in the lab.
38:12Oh, why?
38:13You weren't allowed to.
38:14What's that?
38:15Why?
38:15Because this was about the same time, if I remember right, if my dates are about the
38:19right.
38:20About right.
38:211812.
38:22Yeah.
38:22That's what it's at.
38:23That's what it's at.
38:23That's what it's at.
38:251812.
38:26And what happened in 1866?
38:27Anderson seems disoriented by the challenge from group one's minorities.
38:32He voices what had been a subconscious thought.
38:35We made it.
38:36Why can't you?
38:37Johnson is stunned to suddenly see this other side of a white friend.
38:41Even though I can't empathize with different cultures and races, when it gets right down
38:53to it, I am white.
38:55I don't regret that at all.
39:00And we're not all exactly the same.
39:02The final scene plays out like a parable for the strained relations between blacks and
39:08some former white allies in America today.
39:10I need to tell you, Sergeant Johnson, the history, about the same time the blacks were
39:16around to start being educated, getting educated, it's about the same time the Mormons started
39:21educating them out in Utah.
39:23Two years difference.
39:25Actually, actually only about one year difference by the time you first got out to Utah.
39:35Okay.
39:36Do you have a question for me from the time?
39:37Just so that you know that.
39:39All right.
39:40I felt like Petty Officer Anderson had just left me.
39:48I felt like he left me stranded.
39:51You know, not because he was black or white or anything.
39:54But I said to myself, what do you expect?
39:58And when I stood up after the group was over, I told Sergeant Bickley, I don't want you to
40:04tell me I told you so.
40:05Because, you know, he said, you know, I said, you know, I said, you know, I really like Anderson, I trust him.
40:11And he said, okay, you haven't known him long enough.
40:15And I said, oh, no, I know, I'm a good judge of character.
40:17But when that happened, I just felt like he was looking for a variety of jobs.
40:27I finally ended up working for Tirox Corporation, where I was placed in the personnel department, and I had responsibility for hiring.
40:34But what happened?
40:35Then the government came down with this so-called affirmative action order, which told me as an individual that I had to hire a certain number of minorities and women to work in my organization.
40:46That turned me off.
40:47After more than 10 weeks of training at Diomi, the class should be ready to deal calmly with anyone.
40:54Then along comes guest speaker, Ted Payne.
40:57I don't want the answer from you.
40:58Racism.
40:59Someone had a definition of that word.
41:02My thinking is, and I know you may be co-dependent by this, but that's going to be a problem.
41:08You'll have to deal with it.
41:09I find that most minorities get off on those issues, okay?
41:13And they do already, in a sense, have that kind of information.
41:17So I tend to listen to people who are more like myself.
41:30That's an assumption.
41:31That is not racism.
41:33That is not racism.
41:35When you say something, you turn it up against us.
41:37I don't know whether you turn it up against us.
41:38My perception is my reality.
41:40Yeah, that's your reality.
41:41That's your perception, right?
41:42My reality or my perception.
41:44Well, see, sometimes when you people get into that stuff, you act out a lot of that same behavior,
41:50all right?
41:51A lot of that same behavior, but you want to call us the racist behavior.
41:55Well, could you clarify what you meant by you people?
41:58If you have a problem with you people, you have the problem.
42:01But I used to be manipulated by that.
42:02See, I'm going to talk the way I talk.
42:04I don't want people telling me how I should talk.
42:06If you have a problem with you people, you have the problem.
42:10Payne presses all the buttons of intolerance, attacking affirmative action, belittling the
42:16role of women in the military, even challenging the manhood of reservists.
42:20Let's allow me to express myself.
42:25Last week, I buried reservists from the 14th quartermaster.
42:32There were both men and women, and they were there defending your right to spill the bills
42:39you're pumping out here today.
42:41Are you saying, in my points of view, I have no right to them?
42:44No, sir.
42:45There's no validity to them?
42:46No, sir.
42:46I'm saying that there are others, and there's a whole world of people that are here that
42:51want to say what I want to say, but cannot say it, because you see each other tomorrow.
42:55And I look at myself as a spokesperson for those who cannot speak out as openly as I can.
43:00You know what I'm going to do, you make great.
43:02They tell me that some men that join the agency say that you are female hormones, they
43:06are hormones.
43:07The students constantly interrupt Payne's diatribe with passionate rebuttals, and finally drive
43:13him from the room.
43:13And you can bet that I'm going to the newspaper about this school, because I think you create
43:17more conflict here than resolve conflict.
43:22When you get out of here, when you leave this school, I guarantee you, you're going to run
43:26into people with the same views that he had.
43:28And I tell you what else he said.
43:30He did say one thing that I thought was true.
43:32He said that there were people in there, just like him, that were intimidated by the fact
43:40that there were minorities, a lot of minorities in this school, in that auditorium, and they
43:44were afraid to express those views.
43:46So, Russell has said something when he left the classroom, you know.
43:49He said, that's my kind of guy.
43:52Okay.
43:52And your perception was that that's how I did it.
43:55All I could go on was the behavior you displayed.
43:57You said that was my kind of guy.
43:58I've got a method for my madness, too.
44:00I was being facetious, right, and knew I would get a response from you exactly what you said.
44:05No, you did.
44:06Yes, I did.
44:07And that's why I said it.
44:08That is exactly the reason I said it.
44:10That's why you're attacking me right now.
44:11I'm just making my point.
44:13That's exactly why I said it.
44:14You said it several times.
44:16And he said it to other people outside the group.
44:18So, it was not for a reaction from the people of myself.
44:21What about the people in the other group?
44:23Was it for the same reaction?
44:24I'm not even sitting in a group of them.
44:25They didn't confront me later if they got out here.
44:27They didn't say it to them.
44:28They ain't got a pair.
44:28I ain't got no use for them.
44:29Why would you say it to them?
44:31So, why you got a use for them?
44:31Was it a method?
44:32I mean, are you going to interact with them in group?
44:34It don't matter.
44:35Why did you say it to them?
44:36Because I felt like saying it.
44:37I wanted to see what kind of reaction I would get from them.
44:39But see you then?
44:39Do I have to explain to you?
44:42The man that was speaking had something to say, something that we've all heard before,
44:48and wasn't afraid because of whatever, because of how someone would feel or take it, he was
44:56not afraid to say what he wanted to say.
44:58And that's what I liked about how he was saying it.
45:01It might not have been what he was saying, but the guy had a pair of balls, and he wasn't
45:04afraid to stand up and talk the way that he wanted to.
45:07But as we go back to the group's processing, you never expressed a few things.
45:13I don't have to live up to your expectations.
45:16You don't have to live up to my expectations.
45:18I tell you what I want you to know.
45:20I don't know what I want you to know, okay?
45:21It's just like I was talking to the instructor.
45:23I think it's just because Sergeant Hustleton wanted to listen to him doesn't necessarily
45:26mean he's agreeing.
45:28That's right.
45:28Maybe he's going to listen to this.
45:30I already told you that I didn't agree with everything that he said.
45:34But I agree that everything he said has already been stated.
45:38It is everything that everyone in this class right now knows, for a fact, but we're afraid
45:43to deal with the reality of it in society.
45:47And that's why everyone that did get up and cried and said, are you kicking on me?
45:52And the little giggly laughs, that was overgeneralized.
45:58They took it as personal attacks on them.
45:59And I wanted to find out what his madness to his methods were.
46:03Why did he say it?
46:05And I was deprived of that chance.
46:07And like I said, I didn't care if he's green, black, blue, purple.
46:10It don't matter.
46:12I feel hurt that you didn't want to hear what I had to say.
46:15Because you didn't address me when I was talking to you.
46:17And you got all, you know, ooh, ooh.
46:19Yeah.
46:20I feel hurt now.
46:21I was expressing my point.
46:22But you want to hear what he had to say, but you understand when we got in here, you want
46:25to hear what I had to say.
46:26The real hymn was coming out in there, you know.
46:28And he also said, nothing was new.
46:30What he said.
46:30But he said he was, he was just guiding people.
46:35Because he knew how people would react to it.
46:37But I don't think, you know, you can always cover it up with that by saying that.
46:40But I kind of think the real thing also maybe was coming out at the end.
46:46All right, I'm back at your request.
46:48Reluctantly, a few hours later, they invite Payne back.
46:52But you know, it is a beautiful thing to see, to see people unite together to attack a common enemy.
46:56Now, that's not to say I didn't see some people say, aha, it's my kind of person.
47:00Finally got him here.
47:02He reveals that it was all a psychodrome, an act.
47:06And he has one more surprise in store for them.
47:08Maybe I better give you something to go back in your groups with.
47:12Let's see, what is your title?
47:14Chief Johnson.
47:14Chief Johnson, could you stand up here?
47:18What if Chief Johnson was brought in here this morning in my civilian clothes,
47:24and his name was Ted Payne now.
47:27And he got into a psychodrama talking about his experiences in the Ku Klux Klan.
47:34He wouldn't have the credibility, right?
47:40Why not?
47:41Because of his color.
47:43Oh, because of his color.
47:45You know what's interesting?
47:47I've been using my physical appearance as an educational tool, a psychological tool,
47:53to point out the myth of race and the impact of color in this society.
47:58Because under that myth called race, I'm classified as black, and I am black.
48:03Both of my parents are black.
48:05Both sets of my grandparents are black.
48:07I'm also married to a woman that is black.
48:10And I have five children of various shades and color.
48:15I was not left on the doorstep.
48:18I wasn't adopted, and the milkman didn't come in.
48:22I don't even know how many people hear it when I see it.
48:27See, I never stood up and told the audience,
48:29I'm white and I'm here to talk to you today.
48:31The whole audience made certain assumptions about me, see.
48:34Ted Payne is not his real name, but the rest is authentic.
48:38He is an African American who looks white.
48:41You know, my ethnic identity.
48:43These are his parents.
48:44This is his wife and the rest of his family.
48:53His life and career pose the ultimate question.
48:56Why do we care about the color of our skin?
49:00I always wonder what would happen if President Bush called the news conference and said,
49:05Oh, by the way, I'm black.
49:07I wonder what the reaction from the country would be.
49:10Or better yet, what if we turned all the same color?
49:12We can do that.
49:15I tend to think that if we were able to do those things,
49:18turn to the same color, turn to the same gender,
49:20I wonder what issues we'd be dealing with today.
49:23What do you think?
49:24Well, somebody might stand up tomorrow and say,
49:27I'm six foot six, you're only five three,
49:28and we've got to work on the issues of heightism in the society and its impact.
49:34You know, it's part of being human, whoever we are.
49:37You know, I don't know why we think or do that, you know, do those kinds of things.
49:41But that's part of the reality of what we're about as human beings.
49:52It's just been a hard subject for people to talk about.
49:56It ain't been talked about a whole lot until now.
50:00I haven't seen it talked about that much until I got here.
50:04And I'm glad, you know, because I've learned a lot,
50:07and I'm sure a lot of other people, I don't know what things do.
50:13After three months, Group One gathers for the last time.
50:19They've met in this small room for a total of some 200 hours.
50:23Sir, thank you, sir.
50:25Did we learn anything?
50:28Sir, Stephen, I want to thank you for showing me something that I didn't know.
50:33You know what I mean?
50:35I think I know more.
50:36I think I see more than I did 12 weeks ago.
50:40I don't know if I'm a different person, but I know I see more.
50:45I mean, just watching TV, you can pick out things.
50:47A black man whose car had been stopped by Los Angeles police officers was in the street.
50:54That incident showed me that things were still going on.
50:57I was saying a lot of things, you know, wasn't there, that there wasn't a problem there.
51:01And then I see things like that, and then I see that maybe there is a problem.
51:05Maybe things like that still do exist.
51:08Maybe sometime again we get to serve together here.
51:10I realize now after the small group, what makes me tick, and am I racist or not, and my little idiosyncrasies I have against people and stuff, and how to control those.
51:25I also learn from other people, you know.
51:26Some people have problems realizing what actually is going on and what has happened in the past.
51:34They think everything is hunky-dory, and it's really not that way.
51:41In the end, Sergeant Hustleton is still the enigma.
51:44Was Ted Payne really his kind of guy?
51:47He avoided our questions on that subject, but the only officials feel Hustleton did contribute by sharpening the debate.
51:55We get some people that say, well, you can't teach me anything.
51:57I'm not going to change.
51:58Nothing you're going to tell me is going to change my ideas or beliefs.
52:01I don't believe that, you know, I had that opinion when I came through here 19 years ago as a student.
52:06I thought I knew everything, and I learned a whole lot.
52:10For Sergeant Johnson and Petty Officer Anderson, it is a somber farewell.
52:16I really do value your opinion.
52:17At the expense of a friendship, Anderson discovered something about his deepest feelings.
52:22For me, there are certain prejudices that I have that I do realize that I had.
52:31And that, you know, that's not to say that's bad, it's because I really don't think that I've acted on this prejudice
52:41for the, uh, and cause discrimination, but, but at least now I know that it's there.
52:49There's a weary, almost empty feeling at the end.
53:15But what happened here, when whites and blacks met in one room, was as tough as many battles, and just as important.
53:24The openness has got to come.
53:27Um, I think all of the dialogue and all of the academic knowledge in the world
53:32is not going to take the place of that personal interaction that goes on between people
53:37that brings about a better understanding.
53:39Graduation day.
53:45These newly trained equal opportunity advisors will soon return to their units.
53:50Their instructors seem pleased with this first class of 1991.
53:54If I take anything away, it's a, it's a sense of satisfaction that we have prepared this group of folks
54:02to go out in the field and do a good job for commanders in ensuring that people are going to get fair and equitable treatment.
54:10One more question lingers at the end.
54:14Could the rest of society emulate this program?
54:16If we can do it within the military structure, then folks outside of the military structure can do it just as easily as we can.
54:28It's tough because people don't like to open up.
54:32You know, people don't like to deal with issues of prejudice and discrimination and racism and sexism
54:37because they're sensitive, emotion-packed, you know, kind of gut-wrenching issues.
54:45These issues cannot be resolved in a few months.
54:49Group 1 certainly didn't emerge as one big happy family.
54:53Their days together were as chilling as they were rewarding.
54:58But that's not the point.
54:59The point is that here, in a rare instance, people are trying to deal openly with a subject that most of us, at great cost, avoid.
55:09United States Army.
55:10Even if you change a racist one thought, one of his stereotypes, it's better than not changing anything at all.
55:19Sergeant First Class Eugene Bickley, United States Army.
55:23It probably won't change in my lifetime.
55:25It may not even change in my kids' lifetime.
55:26But eventually it has to change because then we're headed for destruction.
55:31Racism is everywhere.
55:33Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Class 91-1.
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