'Are You Going To Recuse Yourself?': Madeleine Dean And Andrew Clyde Have Tense Exchange Over Bill

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During a House Appropriation Committee markup meeting held before the Congressional recess, Rep. Madeleine Dean (D-PA) and Rep. Andrew Clyde (R-LA) spoke about possibly conflicting interests with the bill.

Transcript

00:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Members and Chairman Rogers. I'm pleased to

00:14be here on this committee, but I'm disappointed, sadly, with the bill that is in front of us.

00:20There's so much that we could be talking about, and so I associate myself with the Ranking

00:24Members' comments, with my colleagues' comments on this side of the dais. So I thought today I would

00:31just focus on ATF. The mission of ATF is to, quote, provide the public from, protect the

00:41public from crimes involving firearms, explosives, arson, and the diversion of alcohol and tobacco

00:47products, regulates lawful commerce in firearms and explosives, and provides worldwide support

00:54to law enforcement, public safety, and industry partners. This bill proposes a budget for ATF of

01:01$1.2 billion. It is a $418 million cut, a 48% cut to ATF. ATF, who has fewer than, I think, about 5,000

01:15employees. 2,500 are special agents. This would require the cutting of at least 1,000 positions,

01:22and ATF, we all know, is already overworked and under-resourced. So I'm absolutely puzzled by that.

01:30ATF plays a vital role in assisting our federal, state, local law enforcement in investigating,

01:38preventing, and prosecuting violent crimes. ATF makes America safer. For example, the National

01:45Integrated Ballistic Information Network, or NIBIN, is a critical tool for solving and preventing gun

01:53crimes. It allows law enforcement to link shell casings from different crime scenes and connect

01:58recovered firearms to previous shootings using advanced imaging technology. ATF's gun tracing program,

02:07e-trace, is a vital tool for state and local law enforcement, not only to help solve individual gun

02:12crimes, but also to uncover and disrupt larger firearm trafficking. Through the e-trace program,

02:19agencies can submit recovered firearms to be traced back to the first retail purchaser, generating critical

02:26leads and intelligence. Some of the provisions in the bill that are perplexing to me, perhaps I don't

02:33fully understand them. Page 133 of the CJS bill, section 568. None of the funds made available by this

02:43act may be used by ATF's demand to program unless ATF modifies the program. Let me read to you some more

02:52other puzzling things in here. None of the funds made available may be used for a gun buy program, gun buyback,

03:02or relinquish it program. None of the funds made available by this act may be used to fund or

03:07implement any red flag or extreme risk protection laws. Just a few. Let me try some more.

03:18None of the funds made available by this act may be used to pay the salaries or expenses

03:23of personnel at ATF. None of the funds made available by this or any other act may be used

03:35to classify, register any firearm with an attached stabilizing brace or other similar brace or rearward

03:44attachment. More and more and more in here about what the ATF can't do, what our funds cannot do,

03:52that would protect and keep us safer. I simply don't understand that. Why would we cut half of

03:58the resources of ATF? Why would we want to eliminate, reduce, or limit the tracing program?

04:05Why is that? ATF keeps us safer. Could someone please explain to me how this is possible?

04:13Will the general lady yield for a question? I will yield for a question, Mr. Clyde.

04:17How do you come up with a 48% cut? I don't come up with that. I come up with a 24% cut.

04:22Mr. Clyde, I have a question for you. Do you have a...

04:24No, no, I'm asking you a question, and you said you would yield for a question.

04:27Yes, I saw it.

04:28So I'm asking the question, how do you come up with a 48% cut?

04:33Well, I'll tell you, but I want to ask you a question as well. While I'm getting you that answer,

04:37do you have a pecuniary interest in guns?

04:42Ma'am, I'm waiting for your answer to my question.

04:45Mr. Clyde, I think it is incumbent upon you in all of this legislation to...

04:49Ms. Dean, I asked you a question, and you said that you would...

04:50You're a gun dealer. We all know it.

04:52You would yield to a question. You just never...

04:53So would you please answer my question? That's all I'm asking.

04:56How do you come up with 48%? I come up with 24%.

04:58Are you afraid to say that you own two gun shops?

05:00Ma'am, I'm asking a question, and I'm asking you to answer. How do you come up with 48%?

05:04I don't think it's possible. It's not 48%.

05:07I just want to get the record straight, all right, as to what the actual cut is.

05:12Mr. Clyde, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Clyde, I'll be happy to get you that.

05:15I can dig it out of my resources here.

05:17Now, would you answer my question? Do you own two gun shops?

05:21You have a pecuniary interest in this legislation.

05:24Are you going to recuse yourself from a vote?

05:29I asked you a question. I'm waiting for an answer.

05:31I told you I'd be happy to get that to you and to your staff.

05:33That's fine, but I'm waiting. I'm still waiting.

05:35Mr. Chairman, would he like to answer the question?

05:40I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

05:45I have a point of order.

05:48If a person on this committee has a pecuniary interest,

05:53a conflict of interest in the legislation,

05:56should that be disclosed?

05:57Oh, can you get me the number, the 40%?

06:22It's in our opening pages.

06:30Oh, then that might be my mistake.

06:35The point of order is not entertained.

06:38Any other members wish to make a remarks?

06:43I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.

06:43I did not hear your answer.

06:45And I have a correction that I'd be happy to give Mr. Clyde.

06:50Time of the gentlelady has expired.

06:52She's trying to answer his question.

06:54I think he hasn't disappeared as well.

06:58She may proceed.

06:59Do other members wish to make opening remarks?

07:14You can correct me.

07:15You correct me for Mr. Clyde,

07:17and then maybe I'll get an answer to his question.

07:19I wouldn't like to have a chance to make a statement, Mr. Chair.

07:23Gentlemen, it's recognized.

07:27Four or five minutes.

07:28Thank you, Mr. Chair.

07:30I yield the gentlelady 30 seconds.

07:32I made a mistake, Mr. Clyde.

07:34It's a 48% to a portion of the ATF funding.

07:38It's an overall, it's a 28...

07:3925.7.

07:4025.7% cut.

07:43A thousand positions.

07:44And now will you answer my question?

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