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00:00Jones and Keith, final hour, WEEI, live from Patriots Training Camp.
00:05We are presented by McFarlane Energy, the heating, cooling, and bio-heat delivery pros
00:09that Eastern Mass and all at Cape Cod depend on.
00:13McFarlaneEnergy.com.
00:14If you're watching twitch.tv slash boston WEEI,
00:17you see Tom E. Curran rocking out there to the White Stripes, Curran.
00:21Oh, White Stripes.
00:22White Stripes, Black Keys.
00:23Yeah, you know, you're right around it.
00:25Purple Haze.
00:27So we saw a light walkthrough today.
00:30We got joint practices tomorrow.
00:32So we've seen quite a bit to this point in training camp.
00:35We were playing a clip earlier from EEI Afternoons.
00:38Mike Giardi gave his grade on Drake May through 11 practices.
00:43How would you answer that question?
00:44How would you grade Drake May to this point?
00:47B plus.
00:48And I'm sure that, you know, we have a tendency, I think, in the media to start grading relative to
00:54what you are seeing most recently.
00:58And I keep looking at May, and he had two picks on Friday, one ricocheted off of Diggs,
01:04and the other one was just sat on by Alex Austin, a bad pick.
01:08But to me, first year, new offense.
01:11He's taken unbelievably good care of the football.
01:14He's thrown it into trouble.
01:16He's had command.
01:17He's been accurate.
01:18He's been a good leader.
01:19Easily a B plus to me.
01:21Who's been their best offensive player so far, if you're adding it all up?
01:25Him and Douglas have been their two best offensive players, I think.
01:28So the wide receiver room, obviously, we were looking at going in, and Steph Diggs, I think,
01:33really answered the first question right off the rip.
01:35He's healthy.
01:35So that was really good.
01:37And then as you work your way down the depth chart a little bit, Matt Collins has been out
01:41there for a little bit of stuff, but he's going to be on the team.
01:43Kyle Williams is going to be on the team because he was a third-round pick.
01:46Like, Kayshawn Booty is another name, I would say, Tom, that we've heard a lot of.
01:49He's just been consistent.
01:50He and Pop Douglas.
01:52But then where does that leave a guy like Kendrick Bourne, who I know is banged up now?
01:57Baker's actually flashed a little bit more than certainly Polk or Chisholm has.
02:00How do you handicap the receiver room right now?
02:03I would say that going in inverse order.
02:06Yes.
02:07My guy Efton.
02:08No, it's not happening.
02:09Oh, no.
02:10He had a nice catch yesterday.
02:12Well, yeah.
02:13He's also had a drop at the back of the end zone.
02:15I don't know if he didn't look good Friday night.
02:18He'll be on the practice squad.
02:20Then Jalen Polk.
02:21So Chisholm, Polk.
02:26I mean, Bourne and Baker are now neck and neck for that next spot, I think.
02:30And Booty's pretty safe.
02:32Then Hollins, Williams, Douglas, Diggs.
02:36But, I mean, I think that Booty and Bourne were in competition, and Booty has just established himself as highly.
02:42You think they're keeping six, and Baker and Bourne, if I'm not to put words in your mouth, but I think if I'm doing the math right, you think they're keeping six, and Bourne and Baker are kind of duking it out for that spot?
02:52I think that if I handicapped the whole thing, and I'd have to do all 53 guys, Jonesy, but if I had to say, that's the order of the guys, and I think that Bourne, and it's going to come down to a veteran guy who's over 30, who is productive, but doesn't play any special teams, against a second-round pick last year, who occasionally looks pretty good.
03:13Fourth-round pick, though, right?
03:14You're talking about Baker.
03:15Oh, excuse me, yes, yes, yes, and Polk's behind those two.
03:19Yeah, so with Polk, is that like a change-of-scenery guy, or is that a practice squad?
03:24Like, does the league look at him like, hey, he was a second-round pick a year ago and take a chance, or are they just like, yeah, we saw what it looked like, and they have no interest?
03:31What's his fate?
03:32I don't know.
03:33It'll be interesting to see.
03:34I mean, the Patriots have divorced themselves from second-round picks in the past.
03:37I think Duke Dawson went over to Denver and didn't do diddly.
03:40A lot of D's in that sentence.
03:42So, I don't know how Jalen Polk, I mean, word spreads quickly around the league.
03:49What went wrong?
03:50If I were him, though, and I had a chance to go on like a practice squad here or elsewhere, I'd be like, go somewhere else.
03:55I would change the scenery.
03:56So, my guess is if they cut him, he wouldn't be bad.
03:59It's just a complete guess.
04:00But my guess is that's how that would go down.
04:03I don't want to spoil early edition tonight.
04:05You're going to be on early edition tonight, Curran, Bragg.
04:08And I believe you guys are going to be discussing and looking forward to joint practices and the preseason game.
04:14I don't know how much you expect Drake May to play in the preseason game.
04:17If the offense struggled, and you just said arrow down at the scrimmage, big-time arrow down yesterday at the end of practice.
04:23The offense really struggled without Gonzalez, without Carlton Davis out there yesterday.
04:28If the offense continues to struggle, who are we going to blame?
04:32Depends on what it looks like, and I'm going to give a little pushback.
04:35Like, I mean, when you say really struggled, there were no picks.
04:38There were well-defended plays.
04:40Yeah, but who was out there on defense?
04:42Guys, it's a bunch of NFL football players.
04:44So, they didn't have the two starting corners.
04:46But it's red zone.
04:48I mean, look, it's just not the catastrophe that people are conflating it into between Friday and Monday.
04:53No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
04:55Let me finish.
04:55But it wasn't good.
04:56It wasn't good, but it was kind of a fair fight out there.
04:59It's not like, my God, they don't know how to line up or complete a pass.
05:03I mean, they did not convert.
05:05Big, flippin' deal.
05:07People, what's wrong with you?
05:09Put yourself together.
05:10I'm just saying, if it looks like that, who do we blame?
05:15There's no blame delay in that.
05:17That's the other team playing good.
05:18So, if it looks like that, I'll say, Washington got the better of them on a few plays.
05:22But I think it's the overall.
05:24For those that are listening on the radio and not watching on Twitch.
05:26I'm in a good mood.
05:26These guys, pause Oliver Jones now.
05:29I'm very uncomfortable with all of it.
05:30But so, no blame is getting handed out.
05:32Most of New England has been uncomfortable with you for going on friggin' 13 years.
05:36But you're saying that no blame to hand out, then, if they look like that against the commanders.
05:41I just, look, maybe I'm a softie.
05:43I just think that that looks like football.
05:46I wasn't putting your hand on my shoulder.
05:48One team is not getting rototilled.
05:50The offense wasn't getting rototilled.
05:52The defense wasn't.
05:53So, to me, it was kind of a fair fight.
05:55If it looks bad tomorrow, I would first look at the protection that Drake May is getting.
06:00Because, to me, to cut to the chase, I think most people are going to say, well, Jaden Daniels is in.
06:05Drake May is competing against him.
06:07If he looks bad, people will say, oh, Drake's down.
06:09I look more at, we will take a hit as a group who have said that this offense has improved and the offensive line has improved.
06:18Our contentions would take a significant knock if Drake May is scurrying it around and throwing into coverage and off one foot and having to get flushed out of the pocket.
06:26That will be a Josh McDaniels and an offensive line issue greater than Drake May.
06:31So, that, to me, is the most critical.
06:32It has to look better up front and with their answers at the line of scrimmage than it has in the last two years.
06:39Well, jumping off of that, just Will Campbell, what have you thought so far a couple weeks into camp?
06:43Same thing that I do.
06:45Same excuse making.
06:47We're going to do the same excuse making for him.
06:48That's fine.
06:49He's just getting beat occasionally.
06:51He's not getting absolutely undressed on a regular basis.
06:54But I'm looking at, okay, it's his first camp.
06:56It's two weeks in.
06:56But this is critical.
06:58Look, I would imagine he's going to get beat in some one-on-ones by some Washington guys.
07:02Vaughn Miller is there, I think.
07:03Yes.
07:04Dietrich Weiss.
07:05Dietrich Weiss, the biggest feet.
07:08His feet are like scuba fins.
07:10Really?
07:11Probably a good swimmer.
07:12We should have asked all the Patriots Monday and Friday questions.
07:15We never got to his feet.
07:16No, we didn't get there.
07:17This year was a year, too.
07:18Yeah.
07:19But I think that he really is going to be tested because he's gotten used to Keyon White.
07:26He's gotten used to Key LeVon, Chaison, and Swenson.
07:29So, now he's going to see some different guys.
07:31He's going to get beat.
07:32How does he look in the 11-on-11s?
07:33I don't care about the one-on-ones, especially, you know, the individual offensive line and
07:39especially the receivers on corners.
07:41It's just not a fair fight with going one-on-one, I think, because you have the whole room to
07:47run through if you're a receiver.
07:48But the 11-on-11 matters more.
07:51Tommy Curran joins us every Tuesday here on Jones & Keefe.
07:54He joins WEI Afternoons.
07:56Because every Thursday, you told Afternoons a few weeks back, and you were like, look,
08:00I'm not saying these guys are getting cut.
08:02I'm not saying they're in jeopardy.
08:03But if I had to estimate a couple of surprise out-of-nowhere cuts, some names I would highlight
08:08are Kyle Duggar and Ramondre Stevenson.
08:11Stevenson put a ball on the ground on Friday night in the scrimmage.
08:14Duggar was losing some reps yesterday to Woodson, the fourth-round rookie out of Cal.
08:19How do you feel about their roster security through 11 training camp practices?
08:24I think Stevenson is more than safe.
08:27He's a lock.
08:29And I mentioned Dunweno, too, because of the massive cap hits that both guys are carrying.
08:35You have a guard who is, you know, played last year, is about the 15th to 20th best guard
08:40in the league, and he's making a massive amount of money.
08:42And the same thing with Duggar, making $14.5 million.
08:44And he had a poor year last year, and he's kind of not been very present and obvious in this one.
08:52He's out there, but that's a lot of money to spend to a player of less-than-significant consequence.
08:58It's like four times what you would pay for, you know, basically a replacement-level player.
09:05So, to me, it remains something worth watching.
09:09I think that they – you know what?
09:11I can't even say that.
09:11I know that Mayo loved him.
09:13I know that 2022, he was one of the better safeties in the league.
09:17I always thought that he and Peppers together would comprise an excellent safety pairing.
09:23But it's just been a little bit since Kyle Duggar played like a rising player.
09:29What about some of the other teams around the league's surprising cuts?
09:31Should the Patriots be aggressive in – I mean, they have all that cap space everybody points to.
09:36Should they be looking around the league on, like, what's going to get peeled loose for whatever reason and try to add to this roster more?
09:42Yeah, if you get a guy like Duggar, it would be difficult to trade him because he did not have a great year in 23, and he's not doing much right now.
09:50So, you know, it's hard to move that contract.
09:53But I would be scouring for trade opportunities, say, with a Kendrick Bourne, perhaps, to maybe get back a depth left tackle so that you don't have to have Vidarian Lowe as your first answer there or Marcus Bryant.
10:05So, to me, I would look at the tackle class and try and either make a deal with someone like a Bourne or maybe even a Polk, the same way they did with Philip Bursette with the Colts way back when.
10:16Yep, Bursette.
10:17So, that, to me, would make a lot of sense to try and find those places where you have useful players.
10:22Like, Kendrick Bourne's a useful guy.
10:25He just got – that sucks for him that he got tackled the other day.
10:27It sucks for the team, too, because if you wanted to move on from him and send him someplace, it's kind of hard to do at the moment.
10:34What are you looking for at joint practices tomorrow, or maybe who specifically are you going to have your eyes on at joint practices tomorrow?
10:40We get a new team in, a new way to measure up some of these players, as you mentioned earlier.
10:45So, who are you going to have your eyes on?
10:46Defensive line pressure.
10:48Can Harold Landry, Keon White, Milton Williams, Christian Barmore, those guys create some pressure up front.
10:54Caleb on chase on.
10:55Can they move Jaden Daniels around?
10:59Secondary, and it's tough, but, okay, well, how is that cornerback depth?
11:03How does that look going against those guys?
11:05Doug, or I'd like to see something from him.
11:07So, that's your defensive guys I would look to.
11:09I'm really concerned with the pass rush because it's been nonexistent.
11:14And then offensively, offensive line, Campbell, Moses, how do they hold up?
11:21Does May have time?
11:24I think I'm intrigued to watch how Travion Henderson is used and how he plays,
11:30but I don't have any doubts that he'll be useful.
11:32So, I'm less concerned with the running back group.
11:34And then Diggs, does he take full part in it?
11:37And I would imagine Diggs and Douglas are going to get the lion's share.
11:41I know they said it was dehydration for Terrell Williams yesterday, and he's fine, and he's back out there today.
11:48But, man, it's only been a couple of months, and we've already had some scares with him.
11:52I mean, I don't know what the concern level is in-house.
11:55Does that mean Mike Rabel takes over play calling if there's a game day situation?
12:00But, like, how much of a concern is Terrell Williams' health status right now?
12:06Yeah, and it's certainly newsworthy because of, look, it's a team that generates public interest.
12:13And everybody's major priority, whether it's the team itself, ownership, the players, the media who doesn't know him very well,
12:20you hope he's okay.
12:21Is there a point at which they have to say, look, this is taxing as hell.
12:24If you're standing on a 90-degree field, you're coming back from whatever it is we still don't know that you dealt with,
12:32would it be better if you went on a little hiatus?
12:34And I'm sure that that would be something that he's not psyched about because he's looked and waited and hoped for this opportunity.
12:41But the Patriots will need to have Zach Kerr be standing by, I would imagine, the defensive coordinator,
12:48excuse me, the linebacker's coach who worked as defensive coordinator throughout OTAs
12:52and picked up a lot of that responsibility yesterday.
12:55But it's one of those, it's almost trite because it's obvious.
13:00Yeah, of course.
13:01You hope he's okay.
13:02Yeah.
13:02And then the other stuff is secondary, but it is noteworthy because there are 26 guys who play defense that you need to coach.
13:10Well, you mentioned if he had to take a leave of absence, and you're not saying that's the case,
13:16but just in a scenario where he needs to take a step back for his own health, I think we would all understand that, obviously.
13:23Would that fall to Vrabel to take on more of a hand on the defensive side of the football?
13:28That's something we were talking about earlier.
13:30He's been very involved with Drake May in the offense over on this field.
13:33Typically, I'd say more of his time has been spent over there, not all of it,
13:36but more of his time has been spent over there if he were to be away from the team.
13:41For whatever reason, would it be incumbent on Vrabel to move and focus more on that side of the ball,
13:46and how would that impact the team top to bottom?
13:48Yeah, it probably would mean that Mike would spend more dedicated time there the same way
13:53when the offensive line was missing Adrian Clem.
13:56Bill Belichick helped out a little bit more there.
13:59And with quarterbacks way back in 2001 when Dick Rabine sadly passed away, Belichick was involved there.
14:05Vrabel had an interesting nugget Friday night at our press conference.
14:11He was asked by Greg Bedard, why are you spending so much time with the offense?
14:14It's like, because I don't know it.
14:16I'm trying to learn it inside and out so that I can answer questions and come up with diagnoses of my own.
14:22So he would be, I'm not saying he's not contributing there, but he's more coming up to speed on that,
14:28whereas he could flip into the defense and being in a teaching spot right away.
14:32Vrabel was asked if Drake May was going to play on Friday in the first preseason game.
14:37He did give you an answer, which is fine.
14:39But do you think that he will, or do you think that he should?
14:42I think that he will.
14:43I think that he should.
14:44I would be surprised if he doesn't, but not jaw-droppingly so.
14:49It'll depend how many reps he gets tomorrow, because we're probably not going to see Ben Woodridge much.
14:54No.
14:54He might get a lot of preseason time, though.
14:56Oh, no, no, no, I guess on Friday he gets a lot of run, probably less so tomorrow.
15:01Do you think, and again, I don't know if it's a series or two, but do you think guys like Diggs, even Morgan Moses,
15:07how much do you expect to see those guys Friday, or is that more get your reps in a joint practice setting than a preseason?
15:13That's a good question on Moses.
15:14They've been managing him so much at 34 years old that maybe they don't ask him to put on the duds and get out there
15:19and run around just for effect, but I do think that this organization and this franchise is in a spot right now
15:27where it does need to do some outreach to its fans.
15:30It does need to, whether it's ownership or Mike Vrabel, show its fans that, hey, we know you came down here,
15:38you sat in traffic, you're sitting in the stands.
15:40We're not just going to give you Ben Woodridge for three hours and it's on your way.
15:44Here's Drake May, watch him for two snaps.
15:46He's going to throw the ball three times and then get the hell out.
15:49And are you going to put him at risk just to get the fans happy?
15:53He'll be fine.
15:54He'll be fine.
15:55You give any chance at all of Terry McLaurin leaving the commanders and joining the Patriots?
16:00I would say 0.01.
16:03Oh, oh, oh.
16:04Well, I can't do it.
16:05Okay.
16:06You can't.
16:06The NFL, guys move all the time.
16:08I appreciate that.
16:09I like that.
16:10In your experience, do you think he'll even be here?
16:12Do you think he'll physically be here tomorrow?
16:14Oh, that's a good question.
16:16Yes, unless they've gotten to a point where they're saying,
16:19well, Terry, we don't want you around.
16:21Kind of one of those TO situations where you're stinking up the room with your presence.
16:25Keep those binocs handy.
16:26I'll have my binocs ready.
16:28I'll be looking for Terry McLaurin.
16:29That's for sure.
16:30The idea that a Final Four team in the commanders would cut off its nose to spite its face after decades of stinking the way they did.
16:39He has a lot of leverage.
16:40If he wants the DK Metcalf contract, he's got a lot of leverage to get it because they need him.
16:44Yeah, the notion that Phil makes his point a lot too, Phil Perry, is he didn't really play until his junior year at Ohio State and then senior year redshirt.
16:55So he does not have the mileage on him that people presume he does.
16:58The Micah Parsons situation, what do you think?
17:00He stays in Dallas.
17:02That's getting entertaining to watch.
17:04That's getting a lot more venomous.
17:05It really does show Jerry Jones, as he ages, his willingness to speak more and more frankly to the point of really articulating some old school mentalities on a regular basis that are probably best left to the old school.
17:28Because he's getting close.
17:28I don't even know.
17:29I should probably track this better.
17:31Jerry Jones not paying Micah Parsons somehow led to a Dez Bryant-Nikki-Minaj beef.
17:37We followed this on Twitter.
17:38It was inevitable.
17:39I have not, but it's a good point.
17:41It was bizarre because Dez jumped in on Jerry Jones.
17:44The next thing you know, he's feuding with her.
17:46And there's a lot of all caps tweets.
17:48I don't know.
17:49I can't follow any of this.
17:50But yeah, it's all because of Jerry Jones.
17:52That sounds like a segment tomorrow.
17:53Well, this should have occurred to me earlier, but we got the Brady unveiling of the statue on Friday as well.
17:59What do you expect out of that?
18:00Brady's going to be there, right?
18:02As far as I know.
18:03I mean, the Patriots put that in a press release.
18:05He's going to be there answering questions, I thought.
18:07Yeah, go with that then.
18:08Interesting.
18:09Do you hear anything?
18:10Should be good.
18:11Who do it?
18:12Have you seen this thing?
18:13Have you heard anything about it?
18:16I think Tom has.
18:17He's doing a weird no.
18:17He's shaking no.
18:18No, I haven't.
18:19I think he has.
18:19No, he went to Tampa.
18:20We were fine for a while.
18:22I talked to his dad.
18:23He said, damn right.
18:24So then Tom was like, you know what?
18:25I do remember that.
18:26We still play the damn right.
18:27I do recall.
18:27Yeah, it's in the happy rotation.
18:28I'm pissed at you.
18:30All right, Tom.
18:30Okay.
18:31So, no, I'm not on the inside.
18:33So you don't know like what?
18:34I don't know if you saw the statue.
18:35You don't know if the statue.
18:36I have it.
18:36It's going to be like a let's go or him, you know, with his hands on his face after he won the first Super Bowl.
18:42Like, you don't know what it's going to be?
18:43Yeah.
18:44Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:44My favorite would be the Sports Illustrated cover where he was wearing the long Sportsman of the Year one.
18:51I like that one.
18:52I like that one.
18:52All right.
18:53Nice statue.
18:53One vote for that.
18:54It's a little late to get your vote in, but that's a good vote.
18:56He is Tommy Curran, NBC Sports Boston.
19:02Check him out on Early Edition tonight.
19:04He's here on Tuesday.
19:04I'm not on tonight.
19:05I thought I would be.
19:06Oh, you thought you said you were talking about that.
19:07I thought I would be.
19:08I thought I would.
19:08Well, no, I was on the email.
19:10I was on the email.
19:10No, not tonight.
19:11I was on the email, and then they said, you know what?
19:12You're liberated.
19:13Yeah, they're like, you gave it all away.
19:14I'll jump to Keefe tonight.
19:15We don't need you.
19:16Don't do that.
19:16Okay.
19:17Well, anyway, you can check him out all over NBC Sports Boston here on Tuesdays with Jones
19:21and Keefe, Thursdays with WEI Afternoons, and well, thank you for following through
19:26and showing up today, unlike some other guests who were scheduled to be here earlier in the
19:31program today.
19:31Did you tell the people about it?
19:32We did.
19:33Oh, we did.
19:33Several minutes on it.
19:34Yes, yes, yes.
19:35I'd say we spent the bulk of a good chunk of a segment on that, yeah.
19:38Did you send out a poll as to whether or not, and I'm sure the most people who would respond
19:43to the poll would say, yeah, you should have done that.
19:45We should have just blindsided him.
19:46Yeah.
19:46Just a bunch of questions.
19:47Hey, Mike, how's the book?
19:48How's Bill like it?
19:49Speaking of Bill.
19:51No, we should do it.
19:52Would you have done the same thing as us, Tom?
19:54I don't think.
19:54Like, hey, quick slants, you can have Lombardi on, but zero Belichick.
19:58You can't mention Belichick.
19:59You know what?
19:59I don't think so at this stage of my career.
20:01Yeah.
20:01You know, my rabble-rousing days are kind of behind me a little bit.
20:06Yeah.
20:06Oh, same.
20:07Got it.
20:07That's actually him saying we should have done it.
20:09We should have.
20:09But you guys need a little.
20:10He's actually saying we should have done it.
20:11You guys could have roused some rabble there.
20:13Okay.
20:13Fair enough.
20:14I mean, like, you have to figure to yourself, okay, what's this going to cost me down the
20:18road in terms of Mike Lombardi access?
20:20Yeah.
20:20Oh, no.
20:20Well, it costs us that.
20:21Blood from a stone.
20:22Yeah.
20:23True.
20:24Yeah.
20:24Touche.
20:25All right.
20:25Well, current good stuff, as always.
20:26You can check it out once it's up there shortly on the Odyssey app.
20:30Billy Lanny with all the latest in trending.
20:32And when we come back, it's time for Grab Bag.
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