Writer/Director Victor Kossakovsky talks to The Inside Reel about approach, the texture of elements and research in regards to his new documentary from A24: "Architecton".
00:30All your films have such a very specific point of view, but a specific, in recent memory, like certain elements, organic, water, stone, these things, but all have a certain movement to them.
00:44And obviously, that's reflected both in what you show and how you film it.
00:49Could you talk about, conceptually, the impetus for that, for this one specifically, after the past two you've done in succession?
01:00Yeah, very good, thank you for the question, because I'm trying to challenge myself and trying to make, I was thinking, okay, people are moving and people are talking, let's illuminate words.
01:23Then I start to make films from my window, just people moving but not talking, just observing them.
01:30Then I said, okay, I understood about people and all filmmakers doing about people, why don't I try to make something about pigs, for example, and see to try to get empathy from people, just watching how pigs are.
01:51And then I said, okay, but what if I film something which does not move, how I can film something which doesn't move, and what we consider like a dead, and we cannot feel empathy to the stone, right?
02:10And especially it's difficult because it doesn't move actually until we break it or move it and destroy it.
02:17So I'm trying to challenge myself in order to find something which you cannot explain by words.
02:24So I'm trying to challenge myself in order to find something which you cannot explain by words.
02:31I like this idea of cinema when cinema taking that corner in art, which is writers cannot even touch, you know, this, like,
02:48this stone dancing, I don't know if you can write it, maybe if you are Nabokov, or I don't know, maybe you can write it, Tolstoy, I don't know who can do this.
03:15But generally speaking, there are always something people cannot, people never saw, and didn't have imagination.
03:28It's actually in front of your eyes, but you don't pay attention.
03:32In my opinion, we actually can see everything, but in a way we decided not to see.
03:40And this is kind of paradox.
04:02You know, we, as a creature, we are animals, right?
04:15In animals, they need four seconds only to understand, is it, is it danger, or is it my food, or I will become food, or is it someone friendly, or rather I go fast?
04:32So, it means brain make huge calculation, just in posture, just in the way we smile, in a way people look at you, you able to understand, is it friend, or is it enemy, or is it, it means our eyes are powerful elements, right?
04:57And, but our eyes can deceive us, that's the thing, is that, that's why when the rock crumbles, and you let it just sort of do that, and then slow down, you know, it's, it becomes something powerful, something, you know, that can't be stopped.
05:12You know, it comparatively, because stone's been around before we were around, and it'll be around after around.
05:19So there's something almost existential and, and monolithic, if you will, about that.
05:25Absolutely.
05:26Absolutely.
05:27Yeah, thank you.
05:29Exactly, exactly.
05:30So you see, you see, again, some people ask me, ah, what are you filming now?
05:37I, I know that I, I will never explain until I film it.
05:43I will never able to, I always say, when I was making, that's why it's a pleasure to work with 824.
05:52Because I just told them a little bit, that I'm doing something about architecture.
05:59And I told them few stupid lines, and I was, I am not proud about, because I knew, I did not make any sense what they said.
06:10But they suddenly took a risk.
06:12They took a risk, and say, okay, do it.
06:15Let me do it.
06:45Did you know where you wanted to, did you know where you wanted to film, in terms of, because you're getting these such, you know, immense places.
06:57I mean, obviously, Turkey, Lebanon, these different places, but places that most people wouldn't have think of, you know.
07:04So, I mean, sorry to interrupt, but just, yeah, could you add that?
07:07No, no, no, no, you're right, you're right.
07:08No, this is, this is another challenge, because, uh, originally I promised to 824 a comedy.
07:17Um, yeah, originally, and that's why I really, I really thank them that they did not bother me with, because what happened is, we talked before pandemic.
07:29We started to talk before pandemic, and our first talk, very short one, like, maybe 10 minutes maximum, when they say, okay, let's do it.
07:39And I was trying to tell them simple stories that, in my opinion, all architects, when they're young, they're kind of idealist, and they want to do something nice for us.
07:53They want to, they have fascinated ideas, and they want to build something nice, but then they started seven years, then they're 20 years poor, and no one wants to build their project.
08:08And then they suddenly win competition, and they, they need people to do office, they hire, hire, hire people, who help them to do it.
08:21And then when project done, they have to fight those people, or have to build a supermarket.
08:29And that's why I said to, uh, 824.
08:58Imagine you artist, you want to build something beautiful, but you end up with rectangle from cement.
09:08Because developers want to do something different and say, yeah, I agree with your project, but in the first floor, you have to put these certain shops.
09:18Then, uh, then, uh, then, uh, then investors say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good, but you have to, you have to, and then constructors said, hmm, we better use this cement instead of stone.
09:32Then, then, then workers, instead of, um, beige, they will put pink color, and then in the end, and becoming a catastrophe, and that's what I told them.
09:45And they, they said, okay, do it. But then pandemic came, and I realized I cannot travel. I have to be in Europe. But architecture is not happening in Europe at all, because all architecture is happening in the countries which compete.
10:01America compete with China, China compete with Middle East, Abu Dhabi compete with Dubai, Doha compete with, that, this is the Shanghai competition control, and this is what is happening. New York compete with Shanghai.
10:18Also, the thing is, is that a lot of the places that have such of these great stone things,
10:48are places that have always been in conflict, and continue to be in conflict, which is interesting. I mean, like Iran, I mean, there's so much beautiful architecture that's been destroyed. I mean, unbelievable.
10:59In video, what is interesting, it's not even most of architecture, not even listed in architectural books. For example, in Turkey, yeah, in Turkey, we found almost 750 others, from five to 25,000 seats, entirely made from storage.
11:17Made from stone. And they are not listed in books. And they are in the mountains, 2,000 meters high above sea level, and there is no roads on there. So half people were building it there. And for why? Why you need so much amphitheater for 20,000 seats?
11:38And for who? It was not Madonna there. It was not Messi and Ronaldo. Why you are doing this? Who? It means it was culture. It was culture. And it means also, it was no microphones, apparently, right?
11:53It was no speakers. And they were able to talk to 25,000 people, just staying in the center of, it was architecture, you know? And I decided to check it. That's why, and I decided to discover these places.
12:08And I was sure that even locals do not know about them, even locals. And what is interesting, we ignore the facts, like real facts. In the center of the film, the main episode of the film, this 1,000 tall megalith, which exists, and we don't pay attention to its existence.
12:31We need to ask ourselves, we cannot even lift it today.
12:46Architecture is just a way to think about how we live. When we design something, we design the behavior for people.
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