The 13th Malaysia Plan identifies ageing as one of the country’s defining challenges. And Budget 2026 follows through that, allocating RM1.26 billion to strengthen welfare for older persons. But translating policy intent into practical impact is another story: Are we investing enough in the systems and services to build the long-term care system Malaysia will soon need? On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Delren Terrence Douglas, President of the Association for Residential Aged Care Operators Malaysia (AGECOPE).
00:00Hi, welcome back to Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris. Let's continue our discussion about
00:22Budget 2026, which is part in which the government has set aside some 1.26 billion ringgit for the
00:32welfare of older persons. That's just part of the allocation and part of the efforts laid out under
00:38RMK 13 or the 13th Malaysia Plan to prepare the country for an aging population. Joining me now
00:45is Delrin Terence Douglas, who is President of the Association for Residential Aged Care Operators,
00:51better known as AgeCope. Delrin, thank you so much for being on the show with me today.
00:55There's a lot to cover here, but I do want to ask you, because you have the
00:59unique perspective of residential aged care providers, tell us what are the immediate
01:06challenges that operators face in providing safe, quality elder care? Immediate challenges. The
01:13first two main immediate challenges, two, one is licensing of centres, making the process of
01:20licensing easier, and number two, the lack of nurses or caregivers locally, who are willing
01:27to work at elderly care centres to assist in the care of the elderly. These are the two main
01:32challenges. And Delrin, do you believe that policy makers are aware that these are the challenges
01:39that care providers like yourself face? Yeah, policy makers are aware, but again, even though in Plan
01:51Malaysia, when I met the Housing Ministry under Plan Malaysia, they are aware of all these challenges,
01:55but state level, at the state levels, land issues falls under state jurisdiction. So it's a conflict. Federal says one thing,
02:05but state government may not follow up with it because they have a different alignment in what they have to do for the elderly. On top of that, town councils have their own bylaws or guidelines that, again, conflicts with federal government requirements or view or federal government's vision for the elderly. So the lower level, as the lower level you go, the people down there, the
02:35the government servants or the government leaders at the lower level of the hierarchy are not in sync with the federal government.
02:42All right. Okay, well, talk to me a little bit about that. Because when I think about older people's welfare, it spans everything from health, from transport, from housing, social protection. When you talked to, when you mentioned the lack of a kind of connecting thread or the cohesiveness of policy making throughout, from bottom to top and top to bottom,
03:09talk to me about what that would, what you as an operator will need. What would a whole of government, both state and federal look like in practice?
03:20I would love if the government can come and set up a body, a special body just for the elderly, but it must comprise the housing ministry, MOF, the health ministry, the women's development ministry, the human resource ministry, because all this works together to make the care for elderly workable.
03:42They cannot be running in silos. One ministry decides one thing and another ministry doesn't follow up.
03:49For example, we are lacking of caregivers or trained caregivers in the country. Yet, at the same time, when nobody locally, this is like the 3D occupation. It's not glamorous. They don't see a future in it.
04:05But when we want to employ foreign workers into this sector, we are not allowed to because there is a law governing that says foreign workers are not allowed to work in elderly care centers.
04:16So it doesn't align. On top of that, another ministry, again, an example is MOF, Ministry of Finance themselves. They have classified elderly care centers under category C, which is lumped together with wellness, spa, massage parlor, beauty salon.
04:36So why are we categorized under category C by MOF and not under health category I?
04:44So MOF themselves have categorized us wrongly, resulting in category C, we have to pay SST, even though we are taking care of health, whereas private hospitals, government hospitals are all, they have a waiver for being under category I, under health.
05:05So are those going to the elderly care centers considered wellness or lumped together massage parlor or spa or beauty salon? So there's some conflicts there.
05:19And human resource, another ministry that needs to work aligned together is the housing ministry, whereby the housing ministry set up Plan Malaysia Physical, Garis Panduan Physical, Pusat Jaga Waga Emas.
05:34They have a beautiful guideline there. But the town council have their own guideline, own bylaws that sometimes conflict with the federal guidelines. And because it's just guidelines, anyone can come up with a guideline.
05:48It doesn't have to comply with the federal guideline. So all these people have to sit down together to solve the elderly care issue. Why I think it's urgent, we have, it's estimated by Dawson, our Department of Statistics, that our elderly will triple by 2030.
06:06That is 4.5 million senior citizens. Bear in mind, if the figure triples, even a small percentage of them were to move to the elderly care centers, and if the figure were to triple also conservatively, we are far, way far behind in licensing centers.
06:24We are far behind in ensuring there are enough caregivers to take care of all these people, because our elderly are living longer, and there will come a time when they reach a certain age where they will need someone to take care of them.
06:37I know the government plan to have healthy aging at home, but even with a healthy aging at home, they will come to a stage where they will need assisted living.
06:47So where are the caregivers coming from? Where will they come from?
06:51Darren, can I just ask you, what's the current capacity in Malaysia when you talk about the residential aged care for assisted living? Talk to me about the beds or places, or maybe even the regions or groups that are underserved?
07:06Okay, underserved are the B40 categories. Okay. Firstly, our membership alone, age group membership alone, we have about 11,000 residents in our centers.
07:18And bear in mind, not all the care centers nationwide are our members yet. Many fear of being members because they fear by being a member, the ministries will be aware of their existence and find them for not getting their license yet.
07:33Also, at the same time, it's because of the ministries, they cannot get their license. So it's a chicken and egg issue. Okay. So, but membership wise, we have 11,000 people. Majority are the B40.
07:48So if we have a problem with a B40. On one hand, the government has eight centers nationwide, eight to cater for the whole nation, which is insufficient, but they depend on us, the private sectors to assist them.
08:01Now, we have cases whereby elderly who on Bantuan Kewangan, where they get a subsidence and the one from the 1.6 billion, they are getting 600 ringgit monthly.
08:11Then they come to a stage whereby they need assisted living. So they come to our center, they said, with the 600, they will pay us to take care of them.
08:20The funny thing is, our government, when the moment they see an elderly, using the money they receive from JKM, the 600, to pay us, since you can afford to pay your money to them, we will take away that Bantuan.
08:34And it's happening. And it has happened. In Negeri Sembilan, we get this kind of issues. In Penang, we get this kind of issues.
08:41So, are the government officers aware, 600 is not even enough to make those centers rich, to enrich those centers.
08:50And they are helping the government to take care of these elderly, whatever the elderly can afford, and they can only afford the 600 that they get.
08:58So, we definitely need someone to sit down, take all these ministries, put under one umbrella, put a scope inside.
09:07If we can give you the solution, we can give them the solution is whether they can work on it.
09:12They need to be a political will to get things moving.
09:17Okay. Well, it seems that the vision is there, but you're right. The implementation, there seems to be huge gaps in the implementation.
09:24You mentioned another huge challenge for the industry is the lack of local workforce.
09:31Now, what would you like to see happen to strengthen the care workforce and particularly to bring in more local people, entice or make this sector more appealing to the local workforce?
09:46Just like, I have an experience working as an auditor in the banking industry.
09:51They have a salary scale. Why not have salary scale for caregivers, not paying ad hoc, different centers paying at different rates.
10:00Have a salary scale that they can have a, when they join a care center, they can see this is a standardized salary scale.
10:07This is what I should be getting, you know, overtime. This is the rate of overtime.
10:11Then, then you'll make people coming into the industry aware that this is protected.
10:16This is what I will get in, in, in return for working.
10:20And they won't be abusers. Number one, number two, we need to have a training program.
10:26Now, there is no standardized training syllabus for the entire nation's caregivers. There's none.
10:35Everyone is working on silos. Different company has come up with a different training program,
10:40and Japatan Tenaga Kerja has approved their training program, different people.
10:44But there's no one standardized nationwide.
10:47I would love to see approved, standardized, everything is covered, have a salary scale, they are protected.
10:55If you have a list of the caregivers nationwide, you can, those abuse, abuse residents can be blacklisted.
11:04Those who good care, you know, there must be something like this to get things moving, that we have a proper system.
11:12So, pay should be increased, but bear in mind, a lot of the B40 centers can't afford if the pay is too high.
11:19So, maybe government subsistence, subsistence may have to come in to cover the cost of those elderly.
11:29Well, Darren, thank you so much for giving us an insight into the operators for elder care.
11:35I appreciate your time.
11:37Darren Terence Douglas there, wrapping up this episode of Consider This.
11:42I'm Melissa Idris, signing off for the evening.
11:44Thank you so much for watching, and good night.
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