- 7/23/2025
Michael McCarthy joins this week's TDN Writers' Room to discuss his superstar trainee Journalism. What were his takeaways from the Haskell win? Where is the son of Curlin headed next? We cover this and more.
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00:00For the love of the worse, for generations to come.
00:23And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writers' Room Podcast.
00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:32I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and the president of the Bookum Dano Fan Club.
00:37Yes, you are.
00:39I am Randy Moss.
00:41Is this actually a show okay or is it backwards?
00:44Is it like Yandar Sam?
00:48I don't know.
00:48I can't tell.
00:49It's good.
00:49NBC Sports.
00:50I'm Zoe Cabin.
00:53Sorry, I'm directing traffic out here by the house.
00:55Zoe Cabin with First TV.
00:57And Bill, I am so disappointed as the president of the Bookum Dano Fan Club,
01:03you didn't have the balls to wear the T-shirts on today's podcast.
01:07What is going on with you?
01:09Well, you know, Chris, we have some difficult bosses we have to deal with here at the TDN Writers' Room Podcast.
01:15But I tell you what, he's going to run most likely in the forego.
01:19And if he wins the forego, heaven and hell couldn't stop me from wearing the T-shirt on that one.
01:25So there you go.
01:27Difficult bosses.
01:27You just lobbed a softball over the plate that neither Zoe and I are going to take a big cut at.
01:33Right.
01:33So anyways, obviously, the Haskell was the big story of the weekend.
01:38And I got to tell you, I mean, I like journalism as much as I like Bookum Dano.
01:44And for the same reasons that, I mean, he's obviously a horse that runs in different category of races.
01:49But this horse just shows up.
01:51And, you know, we have not seen a horse like this for a while at this level that dances every single dance.
01:57I feel foolish.
01:58I picked against him.
01:59I picked Gosker thinking, how much longer can this horse keep this up?
02:02There's got to be at some point the tank empties.
02:05And it just doesn't.
02:06He unfortunately has the unfortunate problem on his record of losing twice to sovereignty.
02:12But this is a very, very good horse.
02:15He ran great in the Haskell.
02:17And it will be interesting to see what he does down the road.
02:20But that's what makes him, to me, a fan favorite.
02:24When's the last time we saw a horse do all three triple crown races, then the Haskell?
02:28And he's either going to go on the Traverse or the Pacific Classic next, it would appear.
02:33So, you know, again, he gets no days off this guy and he just keeps running.
02:37Yeah.
02:37I'm guessing the answer to that might be American Pharoah.
02:40I don't remember if Exaggerator ran in all three before he ran in the Haskell or not.
02:44But anyway.
02:46Yeah.
02:46I mean, he didn't break as well as he usually breaks.
02:49I don't know that that was necessarily a bad thing because the pace for the Haskell was fairly demanding.
02:56He wasn't inside like he usually has been from an inside post position.
03:01I thought that was a good thing because the last thing Humberto Riespily needed to do was be inside behind, you know,
03:09a couple of speed horses like Bracket Buster and Kentucky Outlaw who were almost certain to back up in his face.
03:15So, all in all, I thought he was in a pretty good spot early.
03:21What concerned me and probably anybody else that bet on journalism is that when he made that big move coming to the quarter poll,
03:28he was about a length and a half to a length and three quarters at that point behind goal-oriented and Gosger who were battling for the lead.
03:37At the eighth poll, he was still a length and a half or a length and three.
03:41He didn't make up any ground at all, from my vantage point at least, from the quarter poll to the eighth poll.
03:46But then, like journalism always does, he just, whether it's willpower, sometimes people just assume that and they assign horses human characteristics,
03:57or whether he's just better than the horses he's running against, you know, once again, he seemed to, you know,
04:04pull victory out of the clutches of defeat and get up in time as he always does.
04:08How was the actual day as a whole day at the Haskell, Randy?
04:13Because you were there, Bill was there.
04:15It looked like there was a fantastic crowd on hand to watch it.
04:19Zoe, if the sport of thoroughbred racing could bottle up that atmosphere and that, you know,
04:27those fans at Monmouth on Saturday and spread them around to all the racetracks on their big days,
04:34you know, it would be a really good thing for the sport.
04:37It was amazing.
04:39The young people that were there.
04:42I mean, this is horse racing.
04:43You don't get those kind of demographics.
04:45Maybe at Keeneland, you know, on their big days, the college kids come out.
04:49At Oak Lawn, it's got a pretty young crowd, typically, compared to other tracks.
04:53The median age was probably, I don't know, 22 or 23.
04:59Everywhere you looked, it was hard to find an old person at Haskell on Saturday.
05:05You just go to the NBC booth.
05:09Exactly.
05:10You can find two of them right there, and they're sitting next to each other.
05:13All right.
05:14Well, it's my go.
05:15I actually just watched the replay back this morning because I was at the track, and I watched it from there.
05:22So I listened to the NBC feed, and I think, Randy, you hit the nail on the head with your quote that journalism has a flair for the dramatic because he most certainly does.
05:34He keeps you guessing.
05:35I'm watching the race.
05:36I was like, oh, my God, he didn't break good.
05:38I'm watching him.
05:39I'm like, he's run like a tired horse.
05:41They've been to the well too many times.
05:43He's never going to get there.
05:44He's never going to get there.
05:45And then I'm like, he's not getting there.
05:47And then all of a sudden, just these big, giant, galopping strides come on, and he got there and won going away.
05:56Was it one of his best performances we've seen?
05:58I'm not sure.
06:01Does he need to run in Travers or the Pacific Classic?
06:07I don't know about that.
06:08I mean, they're going to read him.
06:10That's the quotes from everyone, and we'll get to talk to Michael McCarthy a little bit later on.
06:14But I will say one thing.
06:15A lot of comparisons to Curlin have been made.
06:19Curlin ran in all three legs.
06:21He also ran in the Haskell.
06:22He was third in the Haskell.
06:23But the thing with Curlin on that Horse of the Year year, he didn't run again until September the 30th when he ran in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
06:32He was given all that time off, and then he won that, and then he won the Breeders' Cup.
06:38Now, if you're following the Curlin footstep, you don't run again until, what was it?
06:43Last year it was the California Crown.
06:45Then it was the Awesome again, but now it's the Goodwood, which is on September the 28th, the win and you're in.
06:52And maybe you go that way and just see where it goes.
06:56If he's my horse, I'm not sure I want to put him on another plane and take him anyway.
07:01He's done enough.
07:03So that was just what I took from Rispoli said himself he was kind of fighting the kickback a little bit, which he hasn't done before.
07:11You know, when he put him in that spot in the Preakness and he pulled his way through, it was like when he got hit with that kickback, he took off.
07:18So he is just an amazing horse.
07:22And, you know, it really sucks that his dam, Mopetism, passed away just a couple of weeks ago.
07:28He was the first foal from Mopetism.
07:30There's just a couple of other ones.
07:32I believe Katie said the filly, the sister to him is coming to the Saratoga sale.
07:38But that's just a real shame because she could have really been some kind of broodmare.
07:45So let's take a look and look ahead and let's just consider the hypothetical that journalism wins.
07:52I think he'll run in the Pacific Classic next.
07:54That's not that's just my guess.
07:56And Sovereignty runs in the Travers and wins.
07:59Then they both meet again in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
08:01What is journalism?
08:03Randy, I'll start with you and then go to Zoe.
08:06What does journalism have to do to beat Sovereignty?
08:09I mean, we've given them all these accolades, which are well deserved.
08:13But there's this horse out there who has run against him twice and beat him twice.
08:17And I don't see why it wouldn't make it three for three unless something weird happens.
08:22Well, I mean, if they shipped him across country again now and run him in the Travers on Sovereignty's home track where they already lost to him at that distance on that surface in the Belmont Six, I think he probably would go 0-3 against Sovereignty.
08:38I think that would be a big mistake.
08:39And it's my understanding that that's really not the plan.
08:43The plan is to keep him in California, let Sovereignty come to him for the Breeders' Cup Classic, and then figure out what to do with him in the meantime.
08:50Whether it's the Pacific Classic next or, as Zoe pointed out, I think I agree with Zoe.
08:55I mean, what I would do if he were my horse is run him in the Goodwood and give him some time off, some well-deserved time off between now and then, freshen him a little bit, and then use that as a final prep race for the Breeders' Cup.
09:07But, you know, I mean, last year, so Sierra Leone wins the Breeders' Cup Classic and winds up being three-year-old champion.
09:17Okay, but it's not apples to apples, really, because, you know, this horse is now behind 0-2 to Sovereignty.
09:28And even if he beats Sovereignty in the Breeders' Cup Classic, even if Sovereignty loses the Travers and doesn't win again the rest of the year,
09:37when it comes time for voting, even if journalism wins the Classic, I think people are going to say, well, you know, Sovereignty beat him two times out of three.
09:46Sovereignty won the Kentucky Derby, America's biggest race for three-year-olds.
09:50He won the Belmont Six, and they'd probably vote for Sovereignty for three-year-old champion.
09:54So it's an uphill battle, certainly.
09:56Yeah, everything what Randy said and more times that by two.
10:02But I'll tell you one thing.
10:04He is fun to watch.
10:05He is fun to watch.
10:07And the thing that I think they may have learned, and maybe Rispoli has learned this, is that he seems to like a target.
10:17If he's got a horse to run down, the two times that Sovereignty's beaten him is when he made that kind of seemingly early move.
10:24Maybe it wasn't early.
10:26I think it's when he needed to do it.
10:28And he got run down by Sovereignty.
10:29Now, I'm not going to say if he starts off behind Sovereignty, he can run Sovereignty down.
10:34We don't know about that.
10:36But that seems to be his preferred running style.
10:40So the other main action at Monmouth over the weekend was the Chad Brown show.
10:45Usually you see that in Saratoga on a Saturday.
10:48But Chad Brown won four races on the card, including three stakes races.
10:53He's the matchmaker, the Mali pitcher, and the United Nations.
10:57I don't know what else to say.
10:58We've already said what a remarkable trainer he is 10,000 times.
11:01But how about this?
11:03You know, he does – he's not – it is stable there, but it's his B string.
11:07Chad Brown is running away with a trainer title at Monmouth.
11:10He's got 16 wins.
11:12It's from 49 starts and is well ahead of the rest of the competition.
11:16And, you know what, I don't know.
11:18I didn't like redistricting in the U.N.
11:21And they bet him down to six to five or seven to five, whatever.
11:25I'm still kind of scratching my head what made that horse, other than the fact it was
11:28trained by Chad Brown, you know, look so good.
11:31I mean, maybe at this point people just say, I'm tired of getting beefed by this guy.
11:34I'm going to bet on him.
11:37That's the Pratt factor as well.
11:38You know, Pratt was there.
11:39He won three races, all for Chad Brown.
11:42Chad had 11 horses in seven races, winning four.
11:46Irad rode one of them, a local rider rode the other, and, you know, Pratt rode a few.
11:52So, yes, he's running away with the trainer's race.
11:54He's not been on fire at Saratoga, not like you would expect him to be on fire.
11:59Right now, Todd Pletcher in races one has seven wins.
12:04Linda Rice has six.
12:05She had a huge weekend.
12:07And then Chad Brown has five.
12:08He's winning the money one race, but, you know, he wants the trainer title.
12:13Just he wants to win everything.
12:14So, yeah, go ahead, Randy.
12:18No, I was just going to say, I thought you were done.
12:20Sorry.
12:21In his two biggest stakes wins on Haskell Day, he just got great trips.
12:25Yeah.
12:25I mean, randomized in a short field, got an easy lead, you know, slowed the pace down.
12:32That's her preferred running style.
12:34She was sharper than she was in her previous two races, and she, you know, she led wire to wire pretty impressively.
12:40And then, obviously, redistricting got a beautiful rail pocket trip around both turns and then tipped out and was good enough to run down Pletcher's two.
12:51So, yeah, I mean, you got some good trips, but as usual, I mean, Chad had them ready to roll.
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14:37Now, for the fastest horse of the week, Bill Finley actually should be the one to handle this one.
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15:00Now, we'd like to welcome in the Gainesway Guest of the Week and the man of the hour, Michael McCarthy.
15:05The trainer of journalism, of course, came back to win the Haskell Stakes last weekend off running so well in the Triple Crown Series.
15:12Michael, the thing, and most people, the thing about this horse that draws them to him is that he's an iron horse.
15:20And we've talked about this earlier in the show.
15:22You really don't see this very rarely anymore, where you not only show up for every dance, but you run well in every dance and win a bunch of these.
15:33Is there something about this in particular horse?
15:36Is there something about your training style?
15:38How do you explain that he's able to do what most horsemen won't even try anymore?
15:44Yeah, I don't think it's anything that we've done.
15:48He was a horse early on that seemed to thrive on training and running as a two-year-old, three races in seven weeks.
15:55And then that kind of gave me the impetus that maybe he could handle something like the Triple Crown if we were fortunate enough to get there.
16:02And we were, I thought his race in the Kentucky Derby was very good on a sloppy racetrack and a little bit of trouble early in the race.
16:11He came back and trained just as well for the Preakness, and he saw what happened there.
16:17And then it seemed to me like he may have even gotten better after the Preakness and had a very gutsy performance in the Belmont at Saratoga.
16:27We brought him back to California, tried to give him an easy 10 days, two weeks, and he didn't seem to be having it.
16:34So I started to back up with him lightly, and he made it known pretty quickly that he wanted to get back to the work tab.
16:41So I guess you could call him an iron horse.
16:44I've heard people call him a throwback.
16:47He's a horse that carries a lot of condition.
16:50He's a very smart horse and takes good care of himself.
16:54On that topic, Michael, the late great Wayne Lucas told me something probably 20 years ago that I've never forgotten.
17:01He said, and it applies to journalism, certainly, I think.
17:04He said that the better and the classier a racehorse is, the harder it is to judge whether a race took a lot out of him.
17:15Because after a hard race, an ordinary horse can be dull maybe for a while, while a really good horse is like, put me in, coach, put me back in.
17:23They're all enthusiastic and everything.
17:26Has it been difficult for you?
17:28Have you had to think about this when you've tried to study journalism after some of these tough races and decide how much might be left in the tank?
17:35I guess I might have thought about that the other day, Saturday, going into the first turn, when he kind of had taken himself back a little bit farther than we were accustomed to.
17:45And then going around the first turn, Humberto kind of gave him a tap on the shoulder, and he sort of reengaged and put himself in contention kind of by about the 5'8 pull.
17:55But I believe that is correct.
18:00Yes, sometimes good horses, until they get to the quarter pull, you just never know where they're at.
18:04But he does everything so easily.
18:07He eats, he sleeps, he stands at the front of the stall.
18:10So I guess when he's not doing that, maybe that's when we'll know that he's not on top of his game.
18:15But he's been a very straightforward, very easy read to this point.
18:19So take me through the emotions of watching that race, because you're right.
18:24He didn't break that well.
18:26He wasn't perfect in the gate.
18:28It was almost like the gate guy, because I watched it over and over this morning, was almost knocked Ambi Rispoli as he left the gate.
18:34He kind of brushed against the gate guy.
18:36What was it like for you watching, you know, your second born go through the motions in this race, wondering if you'd gone to the well too many times or if he was ever going to get there?
18:48Yeah, he went to the starting gate on Thursday afternoon, seemed like he was great.
18:55Thursday morning, actually, had a nice schooling session, never turned a hair, never moved, went on about his business that day.
19:02So it was never anything that really was at the forefront of my mind.
19:07And then when he did break, as he did on Saturday, I thought to myself, huh, this is the second time he did it, because he did it actually in Belmont as well.
19:16He didn't get away very cleanly.
19:19And kind of stutter stepped away from there, a jump or two.
19:23I don't have a reason for it.
19:26He's always been a horse that leaves there in a prompt fashion.
19:29So these last two races, a little bit of a head scratcher.
19:32And, Michael, the brain trust yourself, Aaron Wellman and the rest of the owners, you don't have to make this decision anytime soon.
19:39But everybody is wondering what is going to be the future race or the next race for this horse.
19:45There's the Travers, the Pacific Classic, the Awesome Again.
19:49Is there any one particular race you're higher on than another or any thoughts about where he might run next?
19:56Actually, I'm just kind of waiting for him to get home later on this evening and we'll kind of watch him here over the next week and maybe come up with a game plan.
20:05But as of right now, I think everything needs to be on the table.
20:08It will be interesting to see what happens in the Jim Dandy this weekend.
20:13But, you know, he's been on the plane, off the plane.
20:16Part of the reason for us to go to Monmouth, outside of it being a grade one, was it was just the easiest locale to get to.
20:24So, fly directly into Newark and head straight down to Monmouth Park.
20:29Obviously, if you head back to Saratoga, you've got to go to Newark.
20:34Hopefully, that's a direct flight to Newark and then, you know, a four or five hour van ride to Saratoga.
20:40So, a lot of those factors will come into play.
20:44Some horses thrive on shipping and running.
20:46Sometimes it gets to him a little bit, but we're going to give him an easy couple of weeks here before we come up with anything.
20:54Good move flying into Newark.
20:55I outsmarted myself and flew into JFK.
20:57Big mistake.
20:58Big mistake.
20:59Don't make that mistake, Michael.
21:01Actually, a pretty nice airport.
21:03I saw a picture somewhere.
21:05I don't remember where I saw it of you signing autographs at Monmouth Park.
21:10I don't know if you signed them journalism or if you signed a Michael McCarthy.
21:12But how cool is it that this horse, I guess because of his, as I described, his flair for the dramatic, his running style, has developed that kind of a fan base?
21:25Yeah, it was very neat.
21:26I thought Saturday's crowd at Monmouth Park was spectacular.
21:30Hats off to them.
21:31And a big thank you to everyone involved at Monmouth.
21:34They were accommodating.
21:36They were gracious with their time.
21:38And did everything possible to kind of make it an easy and an uneventful trip for us.
21:43And it really was.
21:44We had a wonderful experience there.
21:46It was nice to see a lot of, I guess you'd say, college-age kids there.
21:52That was something I hadn't seen quite a bit.
21:54And it looked like a lot of them were really, really enjoying themselves, the amount I saw being carried out on stretchers and first-aid carts and wheelchairs.
22:02So, yeah, but it was great to see.
22:08There were a lot of people there, obviously, rooting for journalism.
22:12Haven't had a whole lot of experience just kind of in and out at Monmouth Park with a few runners.
22:18Then during my time at Todd's, I'd only been there a time or two.
22:21But the crowd was definitely on its feet.
22:24So it was nice to hear.
22:25It was a huge roar.
22:27As I said, I'm not sure if they were rooting for journalism or one or two of the longer-priced horses, you know, in front of them.
22:34And neither one of those were really long prices either.
22:37But, yeah, it was a great crowd, great day.
22:42People were excited to see him.
22:44You get a lot of messages, social media messages and stuff like that.
22:48So it's nice to see the people have kind of rallied behind him.
22:50You mentioned Todd, obviously, Todd Pletcher.
22:53Did he call you?
22:55Have you two spoken about journalism?
22:57Has he kind of said to you, well, what kind of horse is he?
23:00Have you had a conversation?
23:01I'm sure he's pretty busy at Saratoga.
23:03No, I haven't heard much from him.
23:04But he was nice enough to go ahead and house us while we were there for the Belmont.
23:09So it was good to be back.
23:11So it's an understatement to say that 2025 has been a year that you'll never forget.
23:18Right?
23:19For good reason.
23:20A little bit.
23:21Yeah, certainly.
23:22For good reason.
23:22And then not so good reasons, right?
23:25Because of the wildfires and all that that spared your house, but your neighbors weren't so lucky.
23:33How are you going to look back on this year?
23:35It's really kind of a mixed bag, isn't it?
23:38It's not done yet.
23:40It's been, you know, some depth started off with some real lows.
23:45And obviously journalism was a welcome distraction.
23:49And so we're kind of, we're still on a high and hopefully we kind of carry it through till the end of the year here.
23:55But yeah, it's, as I had said before, hopefully some of the people in and around Altadena, as I had mentioned, and that, you know, with all the things that they've got going on and the rebuilding and rehoming and what have you, hopefully that they've been able to get an hour or two's enjoyment out of him over the last couple of months.
24:15So you had your daughter with you at, I'm sorry, what's the latest on the home front for the McCarthy family?
24:21We're just waiting for some, they have got a staging area, basically across the street from where I live, you know, crushing concrete, all kinds of debris, what's left of the devastation, the residential devastation there and stuff like that.
24:43So it's made it a little bit difficult for anybody kind of with young, young children or, you know, older people that have maybe a kind of a secondary issue because of the, the air quality and what's gone on across the street.
24:59And there's some toxicity levels that aren't safe.
25:02So I'm a little disappointed that something like that had to take place in a residential neighborhood, but sometimes that's California.
25:10Michael, let's take you back to the Todd Pletcher factor.
25:14And I'm, I can understand why, how busy both of you are.
25:17You haven't had much to chat, but you know, the, the, the tree, the, the family tree, Wayne Lucas, Todd Pletcher, Michael McCarthy, maybe you'll be the next one to, to create a top trainer.
25:29This comes out of your stable, but in all your years with him, what was the main things that you took away from him?
25:35What were the best lessons he taught you?
25:37Um, showing up was probably less than number one, whatever it takes to get the job done was number two.
25:46Organization was definitely number three.
25:48Um, I think anyone that walks into Todd sees how organized it is and how the, you know, the way our mornings go and, and things that get done, uh, as they do in a timely fashion and always looking professional and things like that.
26:01So there's a lot of things, I mean, I could start and we could talk about this for quite some time, but, um, really just showing up and doing whatever it takes.
26:10If there's a race in the condition book, getting that horse ready to run on that day and being at his best.
26:15I think Todd is probably the best in the game at, at having some time to go ahead and prepare a horse for a certain race and show up with the results.
26:24I think you've seen that time and time again.
26:25So, um, it's nice to be able to have horses where you can point them to certain races, you know?
26:31Um, but yeah, I would, everything that we do, I'd say there's a, there's a little bit of the Todd Pletcher model, uh, that goes into it, you know, or my charts are the same.
26:44A lot of, uh, outside of the logistics of where I'm at, a lot of the things I do in the morning are just the same as we would do if we were at Churchill Downs, if we were at Palm Meadows, if we were at, you know, Gulfstream Park, wherever.
26:57Um, so I just, if it's not broke, don't fix it.
27:01And, you know, obviously been fortunate enough to be around a lot of good horses during that time.
27:07And, you know, 11 years and change a little bit of a slow learner, but, um, I think we've done our best to kind of take it.
27:14Take it with us.
27:15Some of those experienced with us and use them in our own special way.
27:18Does the right sense of humor go hand in hand?
27:22Maybe, maybe.
27:26That's, that's your best Mike maker imitation there.
27:30Uh, and some of those things you mentioned are probably the same things that, that Wayne Lucas was doing in much the same way.
27:37Uh, when we talked to you at your barn at Monmouth on Friday morning, uh, you shared with us one final.
27:44Uh, Wayne Lucas experience that you had recently.
27:47Can you talk about that a little bit?
27:49Yeah, it all started surprisingly Saturday afternoon, uh, in the saddling area at Pimlico.
27:57Um, as we were getting ready to kind of walk out of the saddling area and out onto the grass at Pimlico, he had come up to me and put his hand on my forearm.
28:09And just had kind of mentioned that if you, you know, if your horse is doing as well as he was two weeks ago, you know, don't, don't worry about anything.
28:16You're the best horse and sit back and enjoy it.
28:19And, and, you know, he looks the part and all that kind of stuff.
28:22And it was really a nice way to kind of break the ice.
28:25Obviously you're a little bit nervous here, maybe a touch apprehensive.
28:28Am I doing the right thing?
28:29Running back off of quick rest and this and that, and what have you.
28:33Um, so to get kind of some affirmation from him was really, really, uh, was really nice.
28:40And then things ensued, obviously journalism was fortunate enough to get his head down at the wire was, wasn't able to see Wayne that night after the races or the next morning, he had already left town, but, uh, sale day at Timonium, uh, was fortunate enough to get a phone call from him.
28:57And it was four minutes and 43 seconds or something like that.
29:01But, um, it was sincere.
29:04It was genuine.
29:05It was charismatic.
29:07Um, it was really, really special.
29:09As I had said, it was better than any trophy I could have put on my mantle.
29:15And had I been able to record that, it would have been something I would have listened to every morning before I got my day started.
29:20It was just, um, it was a phenomenal phone call.
29:24Something that I really, really, um, take with me for quite some time.
29:28Uh, a lot of people that have known you for decades, maybe not quite so much anymore, but you know, they all used to call you Whitey.
29:36Where does that name come from?
29:39It came from my white hair, I believe.
29:43Um, I've had that nickname since I was about 13 or so.
29:46Um, my complexion might be a little bit lighter than most as well, but I had actually white hair as a, as a young kid.
29:54And as I've gotten older, it's instead of turning gray, it's turned brown ish.
29:59But, um, and a little deep in the alleys too, but I always tell everybody that's a sign of being really distinguished, I guess.
30:06But, um, and it looks like, um, Bill can attest to that.
30:10Randy.
30:10I never had white hair though.
30:14Yeah.
30:15Yeah.
30:16Yeah.
30:16Mine was white.
30:17Um, and I think there's a picture in the blood horse to prove it from when I was a young kid.
30:22But, um, yeah, it's, it's kind of a name that's stuck with me.
30:26It's gone everywhere.
30:27And I tell people, you can call me whatever you like, as long as you know my name.
30:31There you go.
30:32Great.
30:33All right.
30:34Well, Michael, thank you so much for spending some time with us here on the, uh, the Thoroughbred Daily News Writers Room Podcast.
30:42Congratulations on all you accomplished so far with journalism.
30:45I'm sure there's more victories ahead.
30:47Thanks again for having us, uh, being with us today.
30:50See you guys.
30:52Our guest of the week, Michael McCarthy, was brought to you by Gainesway, home of stallions like McKenzie.
30:58McCarthy, McKenzie.
30:59We have a little Irish synergy going there.
31:01McKenzie is the sire of three-year-old Philly Scottish Lassie.
31:05We'll have more shortly on her Saturday victory in the coaching club, American Oaks.
31:09McKenzie also has three newly minted stakes winners.
31:13That would be Cash Call, winner of the Grade 3 Summertime Oaks, June 7th at Santa Anita.
31:18Not too late, in the June 29th, Merrifield Stakes at Monmouth.
31:22And Quick Kick in the July 5th Iowa Oaks at Prairie Meadows.
31:26You can look for McKenzie's yearlings at Saratoga.
31:29He stands at Gainesway for a fee of $75,000.
31:33Gainesway, power, passion, performance.
31:36It's a domineering display by the ultra-talented McKenzie.
31:41McKenzie in a dominant performance.
31:45One, two, three, would you get to all do?
31:47A million, two hundred thousand.
31:49Chancer McPatrick proves best.
31:52Chancer McPatrick wins the champagne impressively.
31:56It is going to be all Scottish.
31:58Lassie, she wins the frisette easily.
32:00Well, I feel bad about not wearing this t-shirt.
32:12And Zoe, you're right to give me a hard time about it, especially as well as Bookum Dan O'Ran
32:15over the weekend in the Alfred Vanderbilt at Saratoga.
32:19And, you know, this story started as just kind of a cute little story of a plucky Jersey bred who won a little race here and there.
32:26And, you know, I live in New Jersey.
32:28The breeding program, because we don't have slot machines, has really been struggling, both in numbers and in quality.
32:35And this has gone well beyond the just, oh, he's a good Jersey bred.
32:40I mean, he's the best sprinter in the country.
32:42And if one of you two want to disagree with me, I'd love to hear your explanations for why you think otherwise.
32:47But he ran terrific in this race, got a 111 buyer, which is stratospheric.
32:53Now they just have to figure out what they're going to do with him next.
32:56They're looking to, since he seems to love Saratoga, run him next in the forego.
33:03And the trainer, Derek Ryan, is really kind of poo-pooing the breeders cup a little bit.
33:07So they have some decisions to make, but, and also, you know, I think he's developing a real fan favorite with this, all because, because he can run, yes.
33:18But because of the nickname, I mean, all of us old folks like Randy and me, we love watching Hawaii Five-0 when we were growing up as kids and everything.
33:24And, you know, like, hey, Bookum Dano, murder one, man.
33:28It's twice you've called me old now, Bill.
33:32I can take it.
33:34I can't disagree with you.
33:36I think Bookum Dano is the best sprinter in the country.
33:38Now, Raging Torrent was just retired due to an injury.
33:41He might have been Bookum Dano's toughest competition in that particular division.
33:46It's always tough when you get to the breeders cup, when you're talking about the breeders cup sprint.
33:50I think they'll wind up out there if the horse is, if the horse is sound, if the horse is healthy.
33:55And I think, you know, right now, if the breeders cup were running a month, I think he'd, I think he'd probably be the favorite.
34:02Zoe, you, do you agree?
34:03Absolutely.
34:04Absolutely.
34:04A hundred percent.
34:06Bookum Dano, an absolute tour de force since teaming up with Paco Lopez, who just lets him, rains dangling, just plays himself.
34:15Basically, it's like he's rideless most of the time.
34:17And that's how he likes it.
34:19He was very, very impressive.
34:21He just didn't win.
34:22He blew them all away, which was fantastic.
34:25And you can't, you can't tell me if Derek Ryan wins the four-go win and you're in for the breeders cup, but he'll be poo-pooing the breeders cup sprint.
34:34There's no way on earth.
34:35Well, Zoe, let me interject something.
34:38You're only half right about that.
34:40The four-go is not a win and you're in for the breeders cup sprint.
34:44No, it is not.
34:44The Vosburg, which is in half the race that the four-go is, is a win and you're in.
34:51So, I mean, Ryan was complaining about the expenses, the entry fees, et cetera.
34:55It costs $60,000 to enter the race.
34:58But the Vosburg is-
35:00He's 500 this year.
35:01Who cares?
35:02Yeah, right.
35:02Well, but to me, that's the race they should target to win, you know, make that their main prep and then get them off to the breeders cup.
35:11But we'll see what happens.
35:12I think Randy's right.
35:13You know, if he's healthy and sound and you got a chance to win a breeders cup race, maybe wrap up the Eclipse Award, you got to figure they're going to be there.
35:22So, the other big action at Saratoga on Saturday was a coaching club, American Oaks.
35:28And this race kind of became a mess.
35:30The quarantine situation, there was an outbreak of whatever those things, one of those things that they have outbreaks on.
35:36La Cara had to be scratched.
35:39She was my pick and looked like going to be the horse that would go right to the lead.
35:44So, what happened was there was a four-horse field that was left after La Cara's scratch.
35:48Scottish Lassie, who was third last time out in the Acorn Stakes, won the Forzette last year, got out front, went 23-4 and 48, just kept going and going and going and won by 15.5 lengths.
36:01Now, that's a great margin of victory.
36:04But between the fact she only beat three horses and got a dream trip, you know, I'm not ready to, you know, crown her the best real Philly in the country or anything close to this.
36:13And I'll pat myself on the back, though.
36:16So, I said it before the race, I feel bad for Immersive.
36:21This horse doesn't have it this year.
36:23And we were saying, well, give her one more chance after she got beat in the Monomoy Girl.
36:26She got beat 15 lengths in this race.
36:29And, again, the transition from two to three sometimes is very difficult and sometimes horses can't do it.
36:36All the respect in the world for her two-year-old campaign and Brad Cox and all.
36:39But, you know, I don't know what they do with her now.
36:41I mean, if, you know, do they really want to throw out there one more time and see her get beat five, six lengths again?
36:48I would just as soon, if I owned her, just retire her and let her go on to be a broodmare.
36:55I mean, let's be honest.
36:56They all got beat 15 lengths because she just ran away and hid.
37:00And she did it in, you know, 150.
37:02That's racehorse time.
37:03She got her last final eighth and 13 at one.
37:06And when you're winning by 15, who cares?
37:08She could have got it in 15 seconds flat.
37:11She was just coasting to the wire.
37:14She's a filly who's got the time that she needed.
37:17As a two-year-old, yes, she was a grade one winner.
37:19The Frazette, I don't know why that's still a grade one.
37:23When they're downgrading everything else, you've got the Frazette that's a grade one.
37:27She won that.
37:28So she was a grade one winner coming in for TT.
37:31He's just done a great job with her because I can remember looking at her.
37:36Jean Riccio sold her at the OBS April sale.
37:40And they got a post sale for $85,000.
37:43She worked 21 flat.
37:45And she was just this big, tall, gangly, unfurnished daughter of McKinsey.
37:51Like, you really had to have some imagination to kind of map out and see what she's going to look like.
37:57And she's just developed into a beautiful filly.
37:59She's still got some filling out to do.
38:01And time is definitely on her side.
38:04She's only going to get better.
38:05And, yeah, she, you know, she beat some decent horses.
38:09It's not her fault there were only three others to face her.
38:12And according to TT, it wasn't his idea to go to the lead.
38:16That was just Joel.
38:17And if Joel is on the lead, you can damn well make sure that he's got horse at the end of the race.
38:24Because usually if he starts off on the lead, he's going to finish on the lead.
38:28He's very, very good on the front end.
38:30Yeah, and what landed him on a clear early lead was a little kind of look kind of unusual because Manny Franco was really hustling immersive out of the gate.
38:39And immersive had inside position on Scottish Lassie.
38:43And it looked going into the first turn like Franco was intent on setting the pace with immersive.
38:47And I thought, all right, fine.
38:49And then he basically broke her jaw to get her back and swung to the outside to be in a stalking spot.
38:56And he ultimately did an easy fraction.
38:58So you can't say it was any kind of a negative or a bad trip for immersive.
39:02I mean, she was right there, poised outside of Scottish Lassie and just didn't have it for the second straight race.
39:08I'd be shocked if they go ahead and press on to the Alabama with immersive because Godolphin and Cox also have good cheer who's being pointed for that race.
39:16And nitrogen is being pointed for that race, I believe.
39:20I'm pretty sure, by Mark Cassie, who also has La Cara, who almost certainly now will be pointed for the Alabama.
39:27So the Alabama is going to be a heck of a race.
39:29And when you look at Scottish Lassie, she got a 99 by her speed figure.
39:33Yes, she had a beautiful, uncontested trip in easy fractions, but she's never been a filly that needed the early lead on paper to run well.
39:44I was surprised she was the price she was.
39:46I mean, she was 2-1 in a four-horse field, but immersive was, what, 3-5?
39:51And Scottish Lassie had solidly the best buyer speed figure, last race buyer of any horse in the field, and won like that.
40:02The TDN Riders Room is also brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
40:06You probably know them as the PHBA.
40:09Pennsylvania breads won two races on Haskell Day at Monmouth.
40:13Right off the bat, Getaway Palace went wire-to-wire in the first race.
40:17And then in the ninth, Fierce & Strong made it back-to-back stakes wins with his long-shot score at 12-1 in the $100,000 Wolf Hills Stakes.
40:27Congratulations to Fierce & Strong's owner and breeder, Ultra Championship Racing.
40:33Interested in breeding and or raising your own P.A. Bread?
40:37Well, you can go to pabread.com or call for more details at 610-444-1050.
40:48P.A. Bread, I think we've built a brand at this point.
40:52It's excitement at every step.
40:55Roses for Debra just set a new track record.
40:58On average, for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year in breeders' awards, restricted races, and owner bonuses.
41:07Plus, P.A. Bread's shine on the world's biggest stage.
41:10Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
41:13Learn more at pabread.com.
41:16With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round,
41:21there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
41:26P.A. Bread's money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as it's average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
41:36Kentucky Bread's.
41:38Breed them.
41:39Raise them.
41:40Race them.
41:42We all win.
41:43The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Kentucky Bread's.
41:51Heck, the entire American sport is brought to you by Kentucky Bread's.
41:55Journalism, Kentucky Bread.
41:57Scottish Lassie, Kentucky Bread.
41:59Fion won the Belmont Oaks Invitational.
42:01Test Score won the Belmont Derby Invitational.
42:04Grade Ones on the turf.
42:06Irish Bread?
42:07British Bread?
42:07Nope.
42:08Kentucky Bread.
42:10And right now in Kentucky, Ellis Park is offering a record $4 million in stakes purses.
42:15Coming soon, Kentucky Downs has scheduled, you ready for this, $30.5 million in stakes purses,
42:23with maiden special weight races topping out at $170,000.
42:27And in October, Keeneland will have its most lucrative stakes schedule in the track's illustrious history.
42:34Kentucky is on a roll.
42:36The Kentucky Breads, breed them, raise them, race them.
42:40We all win.
42:41So let's turn our attention now to this weekend in Saratoga, where the highlight of the weekend will be the Jim Dandy stakes.
42:48And now we get to see Sovereignty Run on Saturday in the Jim Dandy.
42:54Five-horse field, pretty good in terms of quality.
42:58You wish, of course, there were more horses, but you have Sovereignty.
43:00They're still, I believe, the leading three-year-old in the country.
43:02Baeza, who has run third behind Sovereignty in Journalism twice in a row.
43:07Sandman, can he bounce back after finishing third in the Preakness?
43:11Hill Road for Chad Brown.
43:12Always got to respect Chad Brown.
43:14And I'm not going to sneak in a suspicion that this horse, Mo Flex, might make his presence felt in the race,
43:21as he looks to be the only speed in there.
43:23But from a handicapping standpoint or a gambling standpoint, Sovereignty will be on top of all my tickets.
43:30This is, you know, almost to me like it's like a, not an exhibition race, but, you know, one of the, they call it a paid morning workout.
43:38Can't believe I'm saying that about a $500,000 race in Saratoga.
43:41But, Zoe, do you see any way this horse can get beat?
43:44I don't.
43:44Like I said last week with journalism, if he brings his A game, his A- game, he's for sure the winner.
43:53For sure the winner.
43:54And he's looked every part of it in the morning.
43:57He's a beautiful horse to watch train.
43:59We'll get a chance to take a look at his work a little bit later on.
44:04You've got Baeza coming in.
44:05And, you know, the autumn of this year, towards the end of the year, is going to help him out because he's still a May baby, just having turned three.
44:13Gets his old rider back, Hector Berrios, who's been very active on him in the morning, working him an awful lot for John Sheriffs.
44:20So he knows him extremely well.
44:22And his last two works that I've seen on First TV for Baeza have been breakout works, as far as I'm concerned.
44:30It's like he's turned the corner, knows what he's doing.
44:33He's been on the bridle, the 59-4, the 1-12-2, by far the best works that I've ever seen from Baeza.
44:42So perhaps he's growing up at the right time.
44:44And Sandman's going to throw his head in the ring because he gets the blinkers on.
44:48This is something they've been saying for quite some time that they think he needs.
44:53And Mark Cassie has been going backwards and forwards.
44:56Perhaps we'll see a new dimension from Sandman.
44:58But it most definitely is Sovereignty's race to lose.
45:01Yeah.
45:02I mean, can I see Sovereignty losing?
45:04Yeah.
45:05I mean, it's horse racing.
45:06It's Saratoga, for crying out loud.
45:09Is it the graveyard of champions or the graveyard of favorites?
45:11I always get confused by that.
45:13Favorites.
45:14Oh, favorites.
45:15All right.
45:15But we have, you know, we've many times.
45:17I mean, heck, Secretariat lost to Onion there.
45:19I mean, many times we've seen horses that look like they couldn't lose on paper show up at Saratoga and just not get the job done.
45:26And in Baeza's case, remember now, going into the Belmont Stakes, the narrative was that this was a May foal.
45:36This was a horse that was getting better and better and better.
45:38And most people expected, you know, a reasonably nice step forward in the Belmont from Baeza, and they didn't get it.
45:48Instead, they got a little bit of a regression.
45:50So maybe that step forward is going to come now in the Traverse Stakes.
45:55And, you know, as Zoe pointed out, I mean, the horse has been training exceptionally well.
45:59But clearly, I mean, you can't expect Sovereignty to lose because on paper, he's just such a standout.
46:07Anybody like my Moplex goes right to the lead and gets loose scenario?
46:11Oh, I think he'll go right to the lead and get loose.
46:13And, of course, not going to win.
46:17You never know.
46:18I will put him as my second pick of the afternoon.
46:22So our second pick behind Sovereignty in that race.
46:25But, you know, it's a shame that you still have the Jim Dandy and Haskell competing against one another.
46:31But that's been going on for 100 years, and there's nothing they can do about it.
46:34But that's the reason why Sovereignty and journalism have been kept apart over these last two weekends.
46:41But we shall see.
46:42Sovereignty is an absolutely terrific racehorse.
46:45And Belmont has done a fabulous job.
46:48And he's won, Randy.
46:49You know, talk about getting better.
46:51He ran a 109 in the Belmont, a buyer figure.
46:54And that was his top figure.
46:56But I could see him running even faster.
46:58He moves up.
46:59He improves with every race.
47:01Yeah.
47:01And looking ahead, I mean, way ahead, looking ahead to the Breeders' Cup Classic, if all these horses stay sound.
47:07I mean, we've talked multiple times on this podcast about how good the older horse division is.
47:14And now, if you can mix in sovereignty and journalism against all those top, top older horses, and sovereignty continues to improve, and if journalism gets a little freshening, and, oh, my gosh.
47:28I mean, knock on wood that we get to see that in the Classic, and most of these horses stay healthy.
47:34Well, something we don't normally talk about on the TDN Writers' Room podcast, but it's appropriate this week, is politics.
47:42Because they have a terrific interview, Chris McGrath did, with Andy Beshear, the governor of Kentucky.
47:48And it's up on the TDN website.
47:51And very nice of Governor Beshear to spend so much time with us.
47:55This guy, I, you know, make predictions.
47:58They come wrong all the time.
47:58I think this guy's going to be president.
47:59I think he'll be elected president in 2028.
48:04He's just got it.
48:06He's figured it all out.
48:08Now, you know, would it be good for a president to be a horse racing guy?
48:13Yeah, nothing wrong with that.
48:15But most rules and regulations on horse racing come at the local and state level.
48:21But what I was most impressed by in this interview with him is how much he really knows about the game.
48:26He was talking about Griffin Johnson and Sandman.
48:29My goodness, that's our guy, Griffin Johnson, did Sandman promoting the sport.
48:36And he said that, you know, he has to be an advocate for the horse industry, being in Kentucky.
48:44But he has a long background with horses.
48:47And, boy, I'd love to see him.
48:49So, you know, I'm not giving anything away that people know me.
48:52I'm a blue guy.
48:53I'm a Democrat.
48:54I'd love to see him in the White House.
48:56It's always risky to talk about politics in a public forum, right?
49:02I'm as middle of the road as they come.
49:03So I couldn't get elected dog catcher.
49:05I'm as nonpartisan as anyone you'd ever find.
49:08But I was really impressed with a couple of things that Beshear said in that interview.
49:12First of all, on a non-horse racing front, he pointed out that the goal should be what's good for the United States as a whole, not what's good for the party.
49:24Whether it's Democrat or Republican, who gets credit shouldn't matter.
49:28If it's for the good of the country, everybody can take credit.
49:31I loved hearing that.
49:32And if he does make it to the Oval Office, I hope he governs in that same fashion.
49:38And also on the immigration front, he talked about how that overlapped, obviously, with horse racing.
49:45And his respect for the Hispanic population that takes care of so many of the horses on the backsides of American racing.
49:57And how the country needs to find a way to take those people and not only make them welcome, but give them a spot in society.
50:07That do the jobs that Americans don't want to do.
50:09I mean, those were a couple of things that he said that really, you know, resounded with me.
50:17I don't think that's the right word.
50:18Resonated.
50:19Resonated with me.
50:20Thank you, Zora.
50:22Yeah, and me too.
50:23And he wasn't just talking about horse racing with the Hispanic community.
50:27He's talking about all aspects that the Hispanic community work in.
50:32And you're right, doing the jobs that Americans don't want to do.
50:37And, you know, he comes across as a very likable guy, a guy that I feel I could sit down and have a beer with him.
50:45Do you know what I mean?
50:46Just like a nice guy that obviously has a good view on politics, not only from a horse racing stance, but from a human stance as well, which would be a nice change.
50:56Um, so yeah, I thought he was terrific.
51:00And would that not be cool to have a president that's muck stalls before that knows one end of a horse from another?
51:07His whole family is ensconced in horses, his daughter's an Aventa.
51:11Uh, so it's certainly not going to hurt the horse racing community.
51:15And he just seems like a good guy.
51:18Uh, I don't know a whole lot about, you know, all of his policies and, you know, what he leans on and what he doesn't lean on.
51:25But moving forward, I thought it was a terrific interview.
51:28And he just comes across as a guy who, you know, and if you're watching, Andy, I'll have a beer with you.
51:34It'll be okay.
51:36I'll, you know, won't be too hard.
51:41The TDN is also brought to you by First TV.
51:45Saturday morning, 7.30 a.m. sharp at Saratoga.
51:49Sovereignty had his final work for the Jim Dandy going an easy four furlongs in 49.82 under assistant trainer Neil Posnansky.
51:58After competing, completing his last two works in the company of four-year-old stablemate Jefferson Street,
52:06Sovereignty worked by himself on Saturday.
52:08As Bill Mott said, he didn't want him to do too much.
52:12Sovereignty has been in Saratoga ever since the Kentucky Derby.
52:15The ultimate goal, of course, this summer is the $1.25 million grade one Travers on August the 23rd.
52:24Be a smarter bettor with First TV, the best horses.
52:32With thousands of exclusive morning workouts.
52:40All at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox.
52:45Everything you need to be informed.
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52:51With First TV.
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53:18West Point Thoroughbreds.
53:19The gold standard in racing partnerships.
53:22Visit westpointtv.com.
53:24Last but most certainly not least, the TD and Writer's Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
53:30Coming up on Saturday, Sandman will try to bring West Point Thoroughbreds a dream.
53:36Get it?
53:37The song, Mr. Sandman, Bring Me a Dream?
53:39Anyway, Sandman will take on Sovereignty again in the grade two Jim Dandy stakes at Saratoga.
53:45Meanwhile, let's not overlook lovely Del Mar.
53:48West Point doesn't.
53:50Indispensable won a Saturday allowance there with a 94 buyer speed figure that could launch him back into stakes company.
53:57Indispensable already has two seconds and a third in stakes competition.
54:02So that's a wrap on this week's show.
54:06I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabman.
54:09Our guests of the week, our Gainesway guests of the week, Michael McCarthy.
54:12Our producers and editors, Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
54:18Hope everybody enjoys a big weekend of racing coming up.
54:21Featuring by the Jim Dandy at Saratoga and the return of Sovereignty.
54:24The starting gate.
54:25We'll be talking about that next week on the TDN Writers Room Podcast.
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