Kilmar Abrego Garcia's Attorney Says Client Might Be Sent To Mexico Or South Sudan

6 months ago

Simon Sandoval-Moshenberg, Kilmar Abrego Garcia's attorney, speaks to reporters outside an evidentiary hearing in Greenbelt, Maryland.

Transcript

00:00I am. I am. It's not.

00:30Good. Good morning. My name is Simon Sandoval Motionberg. I'm a partner with the law firm

00:43of Murray Osorio in Fairfax, Virginia, and one of the attorneys representing Kilmar

00:47Obrego Garcia in this matter. Today was a continued hearing after yesterday's evidentiary

00:53hearing. Again, we are asking the court for two things. First, we're asking the court to

01:01order that before Kilmar Obrego Garcia is put on a plane to any particular country, that

01:06he and his attorneys receive written notice of what that country will be, and a reasonable

01:10period of time, which we suggested could be as little as 72 hours, to file an application

01:17for withholding of removal as to that country. As the judge pointed out, given that the entirety

01:22of the U.S. government has exercised its entire public relations apparatus to try to tar Mr.

01:31Obrego Garcia as an MS-13 member, leader, what have you, accusations of which they've provided

01:36no evidence, there are many, many countries in which he might well suffer persecution on

01:44that grounds. In addition, it's unclear whatever country he would be sent to, whether he would

01:51be even at liberty in that country, or whether he would be incarcerated, and it's unclear

01:55whether he would be allowed to remain in any such country, or whether that country would

01:59simply re-deport him onto El Salvador, his country of citizenship. All those are issues

02:03that need to be decided by an immigration judge, not this court, but we can't even get in front

02:08of an immigration judge if they're going to whisk him onto a plane, you know, as soon as

02:12they hit, as soon as he hits ICE custody. So that's the first thing we're asking the

02:17judge for. The second thing we're asking the judge for is the Supreme Court 9-0 held that

02:22Mr. Obrego Garcia needs to be put back in his position before the violation of law occurred.

02:29As the judge mentioned today, she's found on multiple, or she stated on multiple occasions

02:34that the arrest, the original arrest that took place, happened without a warrant, without

02:40any legal basis. And that took place in the state of Maryland. And so our contention is

02:44that putting him back in his original position before the violation of law means bringing him

02:50back to the state of Maryland. The government's position is that the only violation of law was

02:55putting him on that plane to El Salvador, and that that occurred in Texas. So those are the

02:59two things that the judge is going to have to decide. She made very clear that she will

03:04decide before Wednesday. Wednesday is the next detention hearing in the middle. Wednesday is the

03:11next detention. The judge made very clear that she's going to decide this before Wednesday's

03:19hearing in the middle district of Tennessee. And so we expect to get a ruling. Could be today,

03:24could be Monday, could be Tuesday. But we're confident that she'll rule in advance of Wednesday.

03:28Yeah, it's really good!

03:30And it's like I can...

03:32Yeah!

03:33Again, I can...

03:34Yeah, una vez que a woman...

03:35Yeah, you ask...

03:57I just broke someone's microphone, I'm very sorry, who's is that?

04:27It's our fault for creating an impromptu work of art.

04:45It's all right.

04:46Well, let me just finish real quick in Spanish, sorry.

04:49Lo otro es que la violación de ley que ocurrió ocurrió aquí en Maryland, lo arrestaron sin

04:57una orden, sin un warrant y sin causa debido, sin base y que por lo tanto para retornarlo

05:07a la posición que tenía antes de la violación de ley, tiene que retornarlo a Maryland.

05:12Entonces, esas son las dos cosas que la jueza tiene que decidir y estamos muy seguros,

05:19tenemos mucha confianza de que lo va a decidir antes de la próxima audiencia en el caso criminal

05:24que va a ser el miércoles de la semana entrante.

05:26Simon, Gary Grumbach, this is NBC News here.

05:29Do you really think that 48 hours or 72 hours is enough time to ward off another potential

05:34removal of your client here?

05:36I mean, I'll work overnight to file an application for protection as to any country they name,

05:42they got to name a country.

05:43I can't be expected to write out 190 applications to 190 countries.

05:47As of now, they've suggested the possibility of Mexico and South Sudan, but they haven't

05:52even gone so far as to designate or name those countries.

05:55You know, it'll be tough, but we'll get it on file within the 72 hours and then we're

06:01going to ask, of course, the judge to ensure that that application is actually heard and

06:08that he not be put on a plane prior to that application being decided.

06:12Simon, I have two questions.

06:13The judge mentions this March 30th memo.

06:17She said that the government's policies seem to be inconsistent with one another.

06:22Can you explain the March 30th memo and what that means?

06:25Yeah, so on March 30th, the government put out a memo.

06:29It's available on ICE's website.

06:32And basically what it says that if the government has received sufficient assurances from a country

06:37that they're not going to torture or persecute deportees, then the government can put someone

06:42on a plane to that country without any more process whatsoever.

06:45Right.

06:46So, you know, and the witness yesterday explained that South Sudan is one such country that has

06:51given us assurances, which apparently Secretary of State Marco Rubio found credible,

06:55that everyone who gets sent to South Sudan is going to be just fine.

06:58So South Sudan was given as an example of a country to which someone can be sent without even so

07:03much as notice.

07:04Other countries, they need to give the person notice.

07:08They don't need to ask the person whether that person has a fear.

07:12That person needs to sort of spontaneously erupt in an expression of fear of return as to that

07:18country immediately upon receiving the notice.

07:21And that the notice can be served as the witness yesterday explained, they can serve the notice

07:25in the afternoon and then put the person on a plane that same night.

07:28That's what the March 30th memo says.

07:30And then as far as the detention detainer, it's the first time you saw that detainer today?

07:35It was.

07:36And what was the big hole?

07:37It really throws into question the notion they've been saying all along that he does have

07:42a final order of removal.

07:44They have, Judge Zinnis has noticed on multiple occasions that they haven't filed that final order

07:49of removal into the docket.

07:51And interestingly, the box on the detainer that you'd expect to be checked, final order

07:55of removal is unchecked.

07:56And that's the point that Mr. Rossman was making.

07:58The lawyer talks about tortures, but Kilmer says that he already tortured in the SECOT.

08:04Who responds to that?

08:05If a prisoner sent to the United States, he tortured in another country?

08:08Because it could be him and others.

08:10Definitely.

08:11The conditions that Kilmer Obrego Garcia saw in the SECOT were really terrible.

08:18And if he has returned to El Salvador, either directly or through a third country, Mexico,

08:24Panama, whatever.

08:26My concern is that the treatment will still be worse.

08:30Because remember that the last time he was in SECOT, no he was in the general population.

08:35They kept him separated from the general population.

08:38And the concern is that if he came back there, they would put him in the general population

08:43with all the pandillers who are going to do it.

08:46Based on the tone of conversation and the questioning that the judge was asking of the DOJ

08:53official, are you pretty confident that you've got a strong case and that when this ruling

08:57comes down Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, that you'll prevail?

09:00I mean, I don't want to hypothesize.

09:02We'll see what the ruling is when it comes out.

09:04I mean, the judge had some very tough questions for the government on the facts

09:08and had some tough questions for us on legal jurisdictional issues.

09:11And, you know, we'll see what the ruling is when it comes down.

09:14I'll take one last question.

09:15Simon, do you fear that the government could possibly end up sending Mr. Obrego Garcia to

09:20Mexico or South Sudan, even regardless of a 72-hour notice that you would get from the judge?

09:27It's certainly a worry in this case, but we have to we have to hope and assume that, you know,

09:33if a district judge issues an order that's very clear, concrete and direct, that they're not going

09:38to say, in the words of Emil Bo of F you to the judicial system.

09:42A quick follow-up is the box that you said was unchecked.

09:45Is that just because I had said that it doesn't check it until they are detained?

09:50No, you have to ask them why they didn't check the box.

09:51Thanks a lot.

Kilmar Abrego Garcia's Attorney Says Client Might Be Sent To Mexico Or South Sudan

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