00:00Good morning to you. It's just gone 8 o'clock. I'm Ellie Costello.
00:03And I'm Ben Leo. And this is GB News Breakfast.
00:16Well, let's get straight into it, shall we?
00:18And speak to the Shadow Defence Secretary, James Cartledge, who joins us now.
00:22Good to see you this morning, Mr Cartledge.
00:26Good morning.
00:27And our top story this morning is about President Donald Trump.
00:31We're hearing he's poised to join the war in Iran, between Israel and Iran.
00:38What's your thoughts on that? And where would that leave Britain?
00:44Well, it's obviously a very important question.
00:47And I think, you know, clearly no decision has been made.
00:51And it's not for us to really speculate on that.
00:53But nevertheless, as you rightly say, the noises from the White House do appear to imply that they are getting close to a commitment.
00:59There have been reports of capabilities being moved.
01:04I mean, obviously, some of this is also speculative.
01:06I think the key thing is, and this is our party's view, being very clear-eyed about the threat from Iran
01:12and what it would imply if they did have a nuclear capability.
01:15So we do support Israel's right to defend itself in these circumstances.
01:20And would you support the complete destruction of Iran's nuclear programme if they are close to creating a nuclear weapon?
01:27Well, certainly, Kevin, to be very clear, we don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons.
01:35And as Priti said in the Chamber on Monday, our Shadow Front Secretary, Priti Patel,
01:40the reports from the International Atomic Energy Agency are very worrying that they have a level of uranium enrichment,
01:47which is unprecedented for a non-nuclear armed state.
01:50So it can only imply one thing, as far as I can see.
01:52And if the U.S., together with Israelis, take the view that that intelligence means the only way to stop it is to take decisive military action,
02:02then that's something we would not, in principle, be opposed to.
02:05We do recognise the scale of that threat.
02:08Mr. Cotter, can I ask you, please, what your take is on the status of Iranians living in London,
02:13particularly I'm referencing the likes of a former vice-president of the Iranian regime who backed calls for the fatwa on Salman Rushdie some years ago.
02:23He's now living in a very leafy part of north London, nice life, but he's got a questionable past,
02:28not least supporting vocally the former Iranian Revolutionary Guard Chief Salami.
02:34So should these people be in London, bearing in mind their past?
02:37Well, as you know, we have our own domestic security apparatus and judicial processes for people who, you know,
02:47if there are grounds to act, then we do so.
02:52Ah, sorry.
02:54I thought someone was coming up behind me.
02:56My apologies.
02:57So we have the ability to act if there is, you know, our legal grounds to do so.
03:02I think, if I may just say about the point about the British position here and what the implications are,
03:08I think one of the most important points that can be overlooked is it wasn't very long ago that the Houthis,
03:13who are a terrorist movement supported by Iran, provided, received ballistic missiles and other weaponry from Iran,
03:21and they were used to attack our own naval ships.
03:24So this is a very serious situation from our perspective as well.
03:27That's why for us as a party, we are open-minded.
03:30I think in terms of the domestic situation, well, I can't comment on those individual cases,
03:35but I do, I'm very clear on the threat we face.
03:37That's why we understand why Israel has taken the decisive action that it has.
03:41Do you think it's time for the Iranian Revolutionary Guard to be designated as a terrorist group by the UK government?
03:50I mean, that is a long-running debate, isn't it?
03:52Many people raise that point, and I understand that the Foreign Office have had their own reasoning
03:56for not wanting that to happen in terms, I think, of preserving some sort of diplomatic channel,
04:01and maybe there's a justification for that.
04:03I just think at the moment, you know, in many ways we are beyond all that, aren't we?
04:07We are in a situation where you now have kinetic strikes between Iran and Israel constantly ongoing.
04:14Clearly this is coming to a head.
04:15And I think, just to be clear to your viewers from our party's point of view, Iran is a very clear threat.
04:21And in principle, we would not rule out supporting the US if it went down this road.
04:25But at the moment, that's speculation.
04:27Let's see what happens.
04:29OK, let me ask you about the Conservative plans this morning to house army veterans.
04:34Some would say it's a long time coming.
04:36There's a general consensus that veterans in this country are neglected and discarded.
04:40Indeed, they make up a big proportion of the homeless population in this country.
04:43Just tell us, please, what you're doing.
04:45And particularly, the next Conservative government, you say,
04:49will be buying back the defence estate from Annington Homes.
04:55How much would that cost? Where would you get the money from?
04:57Yeah.
04:59Let me clarify a few points.
05:02Veterans is incredibly important.
05:03This policy is actually about current serving personnel, just to be absolutely clear.
05:08So when I was in government, I was a minister for defence procurement,
05:11responsible for the defence estate.
05:12Now, you will know that many reports of the shabby quality of defence homes,
05:17I'm afraid I was embarrassed by it.
05:18That's because basically, structurally, those properties were poor quality.
05:22And the conclusion I came to was, look, we've got lots of people leaving the armed forces.
05:26They're down 1,000 since the general election.
05:28One of the reasons for that is the poor quality of accommodation.
05:31Let's do something about it.
05:32The problem is the defence estate was sold off in 1996, and that meant what you couldn't do was rebuild the estate.
05:38You could just put, if you like, what you call sticking plaster solutions in place.
05:42So I did a lot of work in government to buy back the defence estate.
05:45That concluded, the legal part of that concluded under the current government.
05:48The cost is about 5 billion.
05:50But just to be clear, that cost was matched by how much we save from the national debt,
05:55because we as a government were paying to rent those homes effectively.
05:59So by restoring ownership, we now have this amazing opportunity to deliver homes for heroes,
06:04for those who serve our country.
06:05But there's a big question.
06:06You know this.
06:07The difficult thing in government is delivery.
06:09How do you deliver that change effectively?
06:12So what I'm announcing today is we'll be setting up an armed forces housing association,
06:17so to properly ensure really effective rebuild and regeneration of the defence estate,
06:21delivering high-quality homes, and in addition to that,
06:25actually also offering more opportunities for home ownership for those who serve.
06:28What's your reaction to your counterpart, the defence secretary, John Healy,
06:33his comments over last weekend that plans to increase the size of the British army
06:39in order to deal with the new threats that we've been speaking about this morning,
06:42are going to be deferred until after the next election.
06:47Is it time that we increase the size of our armed forces,
06:51or is it right to delay it for now?
06:56It's an excellent question, because the policy I'm announcing today is really about retention.
07:00This is a fundamental challenge.
07:02It was a challenge for us in government and for many of our allies.
07:05And I think you make a very good point.
07:06You know, John Healy in opposition constantly criticised us for the size of the army.
07:10Fair enough.
07:11But actually, once he's looked at it, he's come out, and as you rightly say,
07:14and I think he's very weak, has announced it will only increase in the 2030s.
07:18And I think that's because of two things.
07:20First of all, he knows because of these sorts of challenges around retention,
07:23basically people are leaving in greater numbers than they're joining,
07:26that he won't increase the size of the army.
07:28It's very difficult.
07:29So he's put it off to the next parliament, so he doesn't have to be held to account for that.
07:33This parliament, I'm willing to be held to account for our policies.
07:36That's why I'm saying you've got to grip the issue of retention.
07:40The reason the armed forces are getting smaller is not because of a lack of new recruits.
07:44It's because too many people are leaving.
07:46And the number one reason in the recent armed forces survey was the pressure on family life,
07:51and housing is a big part of that.
07:52OK, Mr Cartlidge, sorry, before I let you go,
07:54how much would it cost a Conservative government to buy back the defence estate from Annington Homes?
07:59What's the figure?
08:02So just to be clear, that deal is completed.
08:04Just to be absolutely clear, it's completed.
08:05I think it was just over £5 billion.
08:07But the cost, the sort of transactional cost, was outweighed by the benefits to the national accounts
08:13that you no longer, over many years, pay the rent, which, of course, is included in the national debt.
08:18So it's a deal that paid for itself, and it brings benefits beyond that.
08:21If you regenerate the estate, you can free up potential land to sell off.
08:25That will also bring income.
08:27The crucial thing is, under our policy of this new housing association,
08:30it would be totally independent and ring-fenced.
08:32So if there is money created for housing, it couldn't be raided by the Treasury
08:36or other parts of the MOD, it's about putting those who serve our country first
08:40and delivering homes for heroes.
08:42James Cartlidge, we're out of time with you this morning,
08:44but thank you so much for your time.
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