EP10: Brains behind the bylines: How having unrelated degrees enhance journalism | Life & the City - video Dailymotion

The Star

Ever wondered what chemical equations or counselling theories have to do with breaking news and viral headlines? Curious how a degree in something totally unrelated can still make one a sharper, savvier journalist? In Episode 10 of the Life & The City podcast, hosts Aida Ahmad and Farid Wahab flip the script on traditional career paths as they unpack their own academic journeys — from chemical engineering and counselling to the chaos and charm of journalism. Together, they explore how their unexpected degrees shaped their thinking, reporting and even the way they handle ethical dilemmas and deadlines. From surprising skill transfers to awkward first gigs, they reveal how unrelated education might just be journalism’s secret sauce. Also tackled are how unique backgrounds can bring depth to storytelling and why your past might just be your professional power move. Whether you’re a student, a serial job-switcher, or just rethinking your career choices over your morning coffee, this episode is for you. The Life & The City podcast series airs fortnightly, spotlighting issues that matter to urbanites. Catch the full episode on www.youtube.com/@thestaronline/podcasts or www.thestar.com.my/metro  WATCH MORE: https://thestartv.com/c/news SUBSCRIBE: https://cutt.ly/TheStar LIKE: https://fb.com/TheStarOnline

Transcript

00:00Aida, didn't you recently complete a Master in Counseling?

00:09Yes, I did. It wasn't recently though, that was two years ago.

00:13How did you come to that from your background as a journalist to doing a Master in Counseling?

00:18I've always wanted to do a Master's and I knew it wasn't going to be anything in comms, communications.

00:27I've always been interested in psychology.

00:31It was during the pandemic where we were all at home and I was looking up courses online.

00:40And I saw this Master's in Counseling course with Open University.

00:47And I was also looking at other private universities.

00:51There were some universities which require you to have an undergrad in psychology.

01:00So I didn't though.

01:01So UUM had Master's and Counseling which didn't require you to have an undergrad in psychology.

01:06So I took that opportunity to study and I think it was a really good idea to do that.

01:13Before we get into this topic of the brains behind the bylines,

01:18how having unrelated degrees can actually enhance journalism for it.

01:23Let's get to some of the top stories in Star and Star Online today.

01:28Malaysia and Thailand strengthen cross-border disaster preparedness.

01:32This is involving the bomb explosion in Sungai Golok.

01:38Young ones are using AI to rethink their career options.

01:43And the number of vape poisoning among youth is up unfortunately.

01:49And we did this cover story recently about the licensing issue and all that.

01:55So welcome to the Life in the City podcast everyone.

01:58This is our 10th episode for this season, Farid.

02:01Yes.

02:02It's hard to believe we've come this far.

02:04Yes.

02:04It's really fast.

02:05It's really exciting.

02:07And we've decided to close this season with an interesting topic.

02:11I think Aida and I, we both know journalists who have studied something else in their university

02:16or maybe have pursued a master's or postgraduate education in fields that are not related to journalism.

02:24But today we are looking at how those things might have actually helped to enhance their journalism and their work ethics.

02:32So we've prepared a number of questions, a number of topics we're going to have to discuss.

02:36Maybe Aida, you can start us off.

02:39Sure.

02:39Well, I studied a diploma in journalism and then proceeded to obtain a degree in comms and media management.

02:49Because at that time, this was 20 years ago, I thought that would be an ideal career path

02:56because I started working as a cadet journalist in Penang.

03:02So I had already experienced a lot on the job.

03:06And when I decided to resign and move to Clang Valley to continue my studies,

03:12I came in with a whole lot of experience, right?

03:17And I thought that was an interesting path to take instead of studying and then going into the job.

03:28But since I had already accumulated a lot of invaluable experience as a reporter

03:34and then started my tertiary education,

03:38it brought a lot of interesting experience into the classroom.

03:45Yeah.

03:46What about you, Farid?

03:47Well, I actually studied chemical engineering in the UK.

03:51I have a degree and a master in chemical engineering, in fact.

03:56But after I graduated, I actually somehow made the jump into IT service.

04:02I think I was in the IT industry for about three years.

04:05And then after I got laid off from my previous job due to some financial,

04:12some expenditure cut, some financial cost-saving measure by the company,

04:17that was how I decided to jump into journalism.

04:20And I've been in this industry for about six years now.

04:23But my introduction to the media industry is not actually,

04:28I mean, I'm not new to the industry.

04:30I mean, how do I say this?

04:31Because both my parents were actually employed in the media industry.

04:34My mom was with Utu San and my dad was Berita Harian.

04:38So when I was a kid, I regularly tag along my mom to her office.

04:43So I've been around journalists, I've been around media practitioners for as long as I can remember.

04:49The only thing is, was my parents were not really thrilled about me following in their footsteps.

04:55But I guess after six years in the industry, now they are like, okay, you know what, you do what you want to do.

05:02But what made you originally choose to study chemical engineering?

05:08Well, when I was the first person in my family to go to university.

05:12So after SPM, I got a pretty good result.

05:16I got straight A's.

05:17So I spoke to some of my teachers.

05:18What am I, what do I want to do?

05:21So a lot of them said, well, you seem to be good at this, you know, subjects, chemistry, physics, at maths.

05:29Why don't you consider a career in, why don't you consider engineering?

05:32It will be easy for you to get a job once you get back.

05:35And I thought, okay, let's do that.

05:37But halfway through the course, when I was in the UK, I thought, this is not my thing.

05:42And it's very technical.

05:44This is not my thing.

05:45So it was around that time when I got involved in competitive debating when I was in the UK.

05:51And I got involved with students from politics courses, economy courses, philosophy courses.

05:57And it was around that time when I feel like this is more my crowd.

06:01This is more what I want to do.

06:02And I feel like journalism is a platform that allows me to explore these topics in greater details.

06:09So that's how I developed an interest in journalism.

06:12Aside from being too technical, what was it about engineering that just didn't ogre well with you?

06:23I remember we had this discussion in class.

06:26You know, we were just talking, you know, like before a lecture.

06:29So this number of my course mates were talking about, you know, the difference between stainless steel and carbon steel, aluminium steel, which one is better.

06:39And I was sitting, I was sitting there and I listened to them and I could understand every single thing they were talking about.

06:45But I just was not interested nor invested in it.

06:49I just thought, how dry.

06:52I mean, no offense.

06:53It's just not my thing.

06:55It's not my soul.

06:57Interesting.

06:57How about you?

06:58I mean, you also made quite a pivot, you know, journalism to, I mean, counseling, you know, which is a very niche subject.

07:05A very important subject, I would add.

07:07How did you go from journalism to that?

07:11Well, as you know, being journalists, we have a host of issues and characters that we deal with on a daily basis.

07:23And working in the corporate sector, there is a lot of ups and downs, right?

07:32In the company itself, people you deal with outside and inside your workspace.

07:36So, I had always been interested in psychology, why we are the way we are, why people do the things they do.

07:47So, I thought that moment during the height of the pandemic was a good opportunity for me to study it.

07:56And, like I said, I have no regrets studying it because it just put another feather in my cap.

08:06Because when I started off my career, I didn't, well, just some background information.

08:14I didn't do well in school.

08:16I wasn't a good student.

08:17So, unlike you, where you had the grades to sort of charter your course, I didn't.

08:26So, my options were not a lot.

08:31And I had to think about working first.

08:37Also, through the advice of my parents.

08:41Work first.

08:42See where you go.

08:43And if you decide to study later, then go ahead.

08:49So, I started off.

08:51My first job was a waitress in Penang.

08:56And after a year into that, I thought, could I maybe pursue something in the hospitality industry?

09:06And not as in study, but just work my way up through the ranks, right?

09:12And I was in the industry for three and a half years.

09:17In those three and a half years, I tried.

09:19You know, I went for those interviews to go up around, you know, on this hospitality career path.

09:27But it didn't work for me.

09:28So, after three and a half years, I thought, I didn't want to pursue this job anymore.

09:34And it so happens, and I believe that if one door closes, another one opens.

09:40It so happened that at that time, it was the start of the millennium.

09:48You know, 2000, year 2000, and there was an advertisement in the paper for a cadet journalist in New Straits Times.

10:00And I thought, huh, why don't I just apply for it?

10:04Because I could write, and my language was not too bad.

10:11So, I applied for the job.

10:13And I was called for the first interview in KL, in the Balai Berita office.

10:18And then, went back to Penang.

10:21And I got called for a second interview.

10:23Again, I had to come back to KL.

10:25And after that, they gave me the job.

10:28And I remember my first day, I had no clue what being a journalist was.

10:35And my former colleagues at the Penang office did not make it easy for me.

10:41But if you're watching, I actually thank you for throwing me in the deep end of the pool to know what being a journalist actually entailed.

10:52So, I was there for three and a half years.

10:57And in those three and a half years, I think two of them, I was a court reporter.

11:02And that was really something.

11:05Something amazing.

11:06I learned so much.

11:07I made a lot of friends in the legal fraternity.

11:11And I can't imagine had I not taken that path, where would I be right now?

11:18I mean, it could have gone a hundred different ways.

11:20So, again, clearly my pattern was three and a half years, right?

11:24First job and this job.

11:26But then I thought, I probably needed to continue my tertiary education.

11:33So, I moved to Klang Valley.

11:36And, again, it was seeing my path.

11:40And I thought, why not just study journalism?

11:44Because I, in hindsight, I didn't have that many people offering me advice.

11:55I thought I needed to just chart my own course.

11:59And this was the most practical way I could think of.

12:02So, I moved here.

12:03I did a diploma in journalism again because I didn't have the grades in school.

12:08So, I couldn't go straight into the degree course.

12:12Anyway, so, diploma and the degree course for another two years.

12:17And graduated, hooray, before I was 30.

12:22So, I had always been a late bloomer in my life.

12:25And I joined a magazine as a writer.

12:31And, again, that door closed.

12:34Three and a half years.

12:35See, there was a pattern.

12:37I resigned.

12:39And after that, I got an offer to join the star.

12:43But I have clearly beaten that three and a half year streak.

12:47It's been 15 years.

12:51And it's been quite a journey.

12:54Really, it has been.

12:56But I feel now when we get interns for it,

13:01they come from various backgrounds, right?

13:03It's not only journalism.

13:05And when they tag along with us for our assignments or in the office

13:11or just, you know, chat to get to know each other,

13:14I always ask our interns,

13:15what's your major if it's journalism?

13:19Why do you want to be a journalist, right?

13:21And I feel that a lot of the young ones who want to study journalism,

13:29they don't have the full outlook of what it takes to be one, right?

13:38What do you think?

13:39I think a lot of people I've spoken to have this idea

13:45that journalists simply sit in the office and write.

13:48And it's very glamorous, which is not, actually.

13:51Yeah.

13:51But we actually do a lot more than just sit and write stuff.

13:55In fact, for me, writing is only 10% of the job.

13:59There are a lot of things that we have to do

14:01before we can sit down in front of the computer and write.

14:04And trust me, I mean, I love writing, you know.

14:07It's my favorite part of the job.

14:08But there are other parts of the job that are not as great for me.

14:12Now, you had a, you know, you had a very interesting way of,

14:15I mean, interesting story of how you got into this.

14:17If I could share my story too.

14:20My parents were, I mean, my mom especially,

14:23was very insistent that I should not follow in her footsteps.

14:27She was very adamant that I should become an engineer,

14:30like I was supposed to be, according to her.

14:33So I was employed in the IT industry for three years.

14:37At the time, I didn't know how I got into that.

14:40I just grabbed the first job I could find.

14:43I was young.

14:44I had no experience.

14:45So when someone offered me a job, I took it.

14:48And somehow I was in the industry for three years.

14:50And then I was cut off because of financial problems and stuff.

14:54And then I decided, you know what, I love writing.

14:57And so I began shooting my resumes to as many companies as possible.

15:01And one of them was The Star.

15:03And one thing I learned during my engineering degree

15:07was that you have to be persistent

15:09and you have to show that you are willing to go the extra mile

15:13to get what you want.

15:14So at the time, I remember, I went to The Star's website.

15:18So there were the editor's emails there.

15:20So I just copied, I mean, I just sent this, my resume, my cover letter,

15:28and a couple of PDF documents of my sample writings.

15:32I sent them to them.

15:33I said, I want to get this job.

15:35I want to be a journalist and a columnist.

15:37I don't even know what the title is at the time.

15:39I just sent it again and again and again.

15:41And the initial response was, I think, there was no vacancy.

15:45But I didn't give up.

15:47I think for about one week, I, sorry to say,

15:50the editors are watching this, I spam them.

15:52I sent the email again and again and again.

15:54Well, persistence pays off.

15:55Yeah.

15:56And eventually, someone called me up for an interview and I went.

16:00I think I was here.

16:02I think it was a very long interview.

16:04There were a series of questions and things I had to do.

16:08And three or four days later, I found out I got a job.

16:11So, when my mom found out, she was like,

16:14why do you want to be a journalist?

16:15Why do you want to work like me?

16:16And your answer was?

16:18And my answer was, well, it's none of your business.

16:21I love doing, I mean, I love doing this.

16:23But I'm not going to pretend.

16:25The first few weeks on the job were,

16:29I was like, oh my God, can I do this?

16:31You know.

16:32What was your first gig as a reporter?

16:34I remember, I think I joined sometime in May,

16:38May 2nd, 2019.

16:40So, at the time, our editor, Fred,

16:42she said, Farid, I want you to go to Jalanta.

16:45And at the time, I think, no, no, not Jalanta.

16:47At the time, the Federal Territories Ministry was moving

16:50the Hari Raya Bazaar from Jalanta to Datra Merdeka at that time.

16:54So, Fred said, I want you to go there,

16:57come up with the two-page story.

16:59And I was like, how am I going to do that?

17:01I had no idea.

17:03But luckily, I had one of my seniors, Grace Chan.

17:07If you've seen her byline, she guided me.

17:09And she said, okay, Farid, you come with me.

17:12And she approached people with such ease.

17:17You know, she's a very friendly person.

17:18And she just got these people to spill all the teas, you know.

17:23So, I was like, wow, that's how you do it, you know.

17:27So, from then on, from that point onwards,

17:29I learned how to start the conversation.

17:32Because I was an introvert before this job.

17:34I think I still am.

17:35But you kind of have to fake it.

17:37You kind of have to pretend to be friendly, to be nice.

17:40Hopefully, one day, I'll actually become actually nice and friendly.

17:45I get what you're saying.

17:47Because when I started off as a cadet reporter as well,

17:51I was nervous, to say the least.

17:55And a bit shy.

17:57I wasn't a shy kid, really.

18:00I was kind of an extrovert.

18:02But somehow, again, coming into the job with no experience,

18:07and unlike your first assignment,

18:10mine was schlepping over to the school next door

18:14because there was a drowning incident involving two of the students.

18:18And my then senior colleague just told me,

18:22go to the school, get the comments from the headmistress

18:24about the students who drowned.

18:26And it was just crickets in my head after that.

18:29So, I walked over to the school.

18:30It was just next door to the office.

18:33The headmistress wasn't there.

18:35So, I just sat there.

18:37There was no one to talk to me.

18:39And I thought, how on earth am I going to get this story?

18:42Who was I supposed to interview?

18:44What?

18:44Nothing.

18:45So, about an hour after that,

18:48I walked back to the office.

18:49And he asked me,

18:50so, what do you have?

18:51Nothing.

18:53I have nothing.

18:55So, there was some sort of silent treatment

18:58in the office for the next few hours.

19:01And it was just nerve-wracking.

19:04I thought, will I survive this week in this job?

19:09And I think a few hours later,

19:12he sat me down.

19:12He told me what this job until,

19:16what was I supposed to do, right?

19:18And it was hilarious, really.

19:24But, like you said,

19:26it forced me to open up

19:28and to learn how to talk to people,

19:31to get the information.

19:33Yes, we have to be friendly.

19:35No one wants a rude person asking you questions.

19:39Right?

19:40Who's this busybody probing me now?

19:42Right.

19:43So, we have to hone that skill,

19:46the interpersonal skills.

19:49We have to hone it.

19:50And I think we've done a not-too-shabby job

19:54honing that skill.

19:55Hopefully.

19:57But let me ask you this.

19:59You have a background in chemical engineering, right?

20:03Chemical and biological, actually.

20:05Not to brag, but that's the full title.

20:07Right.

20:07So, what skills from your degree and master's

20:11show up in your day-to-day job as a journalist?

20:16I don't know how to.

20:19Again, how do I say this?

20:21In engineering, we have a very high bar

20:24when it comes to verifying information.

20:29So, you know, you can't...

20:31I mean, for example,

20:33when we cite sources, right?

20:35So, in engineering,

20:36when I did my research project,

20:38I had to cite sources.

20:40So, I need to know where to find these sources.

20:41I need to be able to assess

20:43whether they are credible or not.

20:45Now, when I write my lab report,

20:50you know, my engineering report,

20:51I had to be...

20:52There's a certain discipline

20:54that I had to employ.

20:56And in journalism,

20:57I find actually the process

20:58is actually quite similar.

21:00Who you are interviewing, you know,

21:02who are your sources,

21:03how do you verify the information.

21:06The only difference is that

21:08engineering is all...

21:09To me, it's numbers and figures.

21:13And journalism, on the other hand,

21:15is a little bit more than once.

21:17You're dealing with humans,

21:18you're dealing with emotions,

21:20and emotions are not facts.

21:22So, I think,

21:23in terms of transferable skill,

21:26it comes down to

21:28how I verify information.

21:30I have a very high bar for that.

21:32But even then,

21:32I am not prone...

21:34I mean, I am not...

21:35I mean, I make mistakes

21:36every now and then,

21:37which is why we...

21:37Yeah, we all do, actually.

21:38Which is why we have editors.

21:39How about you, Aida?

21:40Well,

21:41if you ask me how has

21:43getting a Master's in Counseling

21:49helped shape the way I handle

21:52stress and deadlines

21:53or even ethical decisions,

21:55a lot, actually.

21:57Because we were all stressed out

21:58during the pandemic, right?

22:00And as I started my course,

22:03I thought...

22:04Well, this was...

22:07That was interesting.

22:08Learning about stress management,

22:12emotional management,

22:15dealing with anger,

22:16a lot of those things.

22:18So,

22:19I won't say

22:21I'm a much calmer person.

22:23I have my moments.

22:25But learning

22:26the basics of psychology

22:29and counseling,

22:30how to talk to people,

22:31I feel

22:31my

22:33empathy levels

22:34have improved.

22:37And...

22:37Was it bad before?

22:40Not to say bad.

22:41It needed a lot of improvement.

22:43Okay.

22:45But

22:45even now,

22:46I have

22:47sort of

22:50flown off my rocker

22:52once in a while.

22:54And

22:55I feel we've all done that.

22:57And we've all dealt with people

22:58who have done that.

23:00So,

23:01so in terms of

23:04how has

23:05counseling

23:06shaped

23:06my

23:07journey

23:08as a journalist,

23:09it has taught me

23:11to

23:12let a lot of things go.

23:14How about you?

23:16Well,

23:17I

23:17don't study

23:19counseling.

23:20Although,

23:21I have a lot of

23:22books on psychology,

23:23but I'm not saying

23:24it's the same

23:25as actually doing

23:26a master in it.

23:27But yeah,

23:27I don't have

23:28any formal qualification

23:30in psychology

23:30or counseling.

23:32I do find that

23:32very interesting

23:33and something,

23:35I think it's a good

23:36thing to have.

23:36It's a good skill to have.

23:38As for me,

23:39can I reframe

23:40your question?

23:41Are you asking me

23:41how has my

23:42degree

23:43and my master

23:44come

23:45help me?

23:46How has it been useful?

23:47How has it been useful?

23:48I have done

23:50a number of

23:51environmental stories

23:52over the years

23:53and

23:54part of my,

23:55I mean,

23:55a huge part of my course

23:57was dedicated

23:58towards environmental

23:59issues because

24:00chemical engineering,

24:01you know,

24:02we studied about

24:02fracking,

24:04we studied about

24:05carbon storage,

24:06you know.

24:07These are things

24:08which in the,

24:09I mean,

24:09among environmentalists,

24:10they are very

24:10controversial

24:11and we also,

24:13because I studied

24:14in the UK,

24:14I also had to

24:15familiarize myself

24:17with some of the

24:18regulations in the UK,

24:20in Europe

24:21when it comes to

24:22environmental

24:22issues.

24:25So,

24:27I'm very,

24:27I'm very familiar

24:29with environmental stuff.

24:30So,

24:30when I write about

24:31environmental issues,

24:32for example,

24:32I've interviewed a couple

24:33of lecturers,

24:34so I noticed that

24:35sometimes they tend

24:36to want to tone down,

24:39not to say dumb down,

24:40but to tone down their,

24:41I mean,

24:42they try to,

24:42not to use as much jargon,

24:44they try to simplify it

24:45so much

24:46because they think

24:47that I can't understand

24:48them.

24:48And there had been

24:48a few times

24:49when I tell them,

24:50it's okay, sir,

24:51it's okay,

24:52prof,

24:52doctor,

24:53I actually studied

24:54chemical engineering,

24:54you can be technical

24:55with me,

24:56I can understand you.

24:57Right,

24:57see,

24:57so that boils down

24:59to our knowledge

25:02behind the guidelines,

25:04right?

25:06Can you share

25:07an example

25:08of how your

25:08academic knowledge

25:10in biology

25:12and chemical engineering

25:13helped you write

25:14or investigate

25:15a story?

25:16So,

25:16I think a few years

25:19ago I wrote

25:19a story about

25:20water pollution,

25:22if I'm not mistaken,

25:23and I interviewed

25:24this one water expert,

25:25he's a lecturer too,

25:26and so he was

25:27explaining to me

25:28about a concept

25:29called

25:30biochemical oxygen

25:32demand,

25:33BOD,

25:34and then he also

25:35talked about

25:35turbidity,

25:36which is a measure

25:37of the amount

25:38of suspended

25:39solids inside

25:40water bodies.

25:41so when he was

25:43explaining it to me,

25:44I was like,

25:44he was like trying

25:45to simplify it to me,

25:46and I said,

25:47it's okay,

25:47prof,

25:47you can,

25:48doctor,

25:48you can talk to me,

25:50and because I have,

25:51because I've worked

25:52as a,

25:52because I'm also a

25:54journalist who has

25:54a background in

25:55chemical engineering,

25:56I know how to

25:57simplify that concept

25:59in a way that is

26:00accessible to

26:02general readers.

26:03Obviously,

26:03I can't explain it

26:04the way I would

26:05if I were to write

26:06an actual academic

26:07papers,

26:07but I think it helps.

26:10You know,

26:10I've written about,

26:12I think there was

26:13one time when I

26:14wrote about prawns,

26:16prawns dying

26:17mysteriously in

26:17Sungai Langat.

26:19So at that time,

26:20people were talking

26:21about,

26:21you know,

26:21how there's,

26:22how,

26:23you know,

26:23the lack of

26:24sunlight,

26:25you know,

26:26the lack of

26:26microorganisms inside

26:27the water might

26:28have contributed to

26:29that.

26:29So I had to find

26:30a way to be able

26:32to explain this

26:33very specific

26:34concept,

26:35very,

26:35you know,

26:36scientific concept

26:37to ordinary people

26:38because you have

26:38to understand,

26:39as journalists,

26:40your readers are

26:42from a wide range

26:43of backgrounds.

26:43Yeah,

26:44and they cannot

26:45understand a lot

26:46of technical,

26:47the majority of

26:48people can't

26:50understand technical

26:51things we write,

26:53so we can't make it

26:54into an academic

26:54paper or medical

26:56journal.

26:57You don't,

26:58you shouldn't feel

26:59as if you need a

27:00degree to be able

27:01to understand what's

27:01written in the paper.

27:03So your readers

27:03can be lawyers,

27:04they can be doctors,

27:05they can be teachers,

27:06they can be anyone.

27:07So you have

27:08to make it

27:09and simplify it

27:10in a way that

27:10is accessible

27:11to everyone.

27:12Right.

27:13And I feel

27:15when we speak

27:16about degrees

27:17of relevance,

27:18as in your

27:20bachelor's degrees

27:21or master's

27:21or whatever

27:22qualification,

27:23right,

27:24I think we can

27:25agree that having

27:26a non-journalism

27:27degree will

27:30help you in

27:30a lot of ways

27:31as you enter

27:33the journalism

27:34field.

27:35because I feel

27:35now with

27:37everything accessible

27:38online,

27:39you can easily

27:40learn how to

27:41write,

27:43right?

27:43If you come

27:44in with

27:45other non-journalism

27:48degrees,

27:48for example,

27:49other professional

27:49degrees,

27:50legal,

27:51medical,

27:53science,

27:54engineering,

27:55it will

27:57help you

27:58put the message

28:03in the story

28:04better,

28:05don't you

28:05think?

28:06I think so,

28:07yeah.

28:07I mean,

28:07yeah,

28:08you might

28:10see things

28:10the way

28:11that other

28:12people or

28:12other journalists

28:13won't see it.

28:14So that's an

28:14advantage for you.

28:15Though I wouldn't

28:16go as far as

28:17to say that

28:18everyone can

28:19write,

28:20anyone can

28:21learn writing

28:21over the years.

28:22I think writing

28:23is one of those

28:24skills that

28:24I think

28:25journalism is

28:26unique in a

28:27way that

28:28I don't think

28:29you need

28:29a specific

28:30qualification in

28:31journalism to

28:31be able to

28:32be a

28:32journalist,

28:33but that

28:34still doesn't

28:34mean anyone

28:35can be a

28:36journalist.

28:37Because I

28:37feel like

28:38writing is

28:38one of those

28:39skills that

28:39either you

28:40have it,

28:41either you

28:41have the

28:41talent,

28:42or you

28:43spend years

28:43developing it.

28:44So yes,

28:45you can develop

28:46it,

28:46but it will

28:46take you a

28:47long time.

28:48That is true.

28:49Like what I

28:50said earlier

28:51when we

28:52have interns

28:53coming on

28:54board and

28:54working with

28:55us for

28:55those few

28:56months,

28:57it's

28:58interesting to

28:59learn their

29:00backgrounds and

29:00why they

29:01decided to

29:02learn writing

29:04or English

29:05or communications

29:07mass com.

29:09I think I've

29:11come across

29:11people who

29:12say things

29:12like,

29:13well,

29:13we have AI

29:14now who

29:15can write

29:15for you.

29:16But I

29:16mean,

29:17I've used AI

29:18a lot.

29:18We've had a

29:19couple of

29:19trainings even

29:20in the

29:20company about

29:21how to use

29:21AI.

29:22But I think

29:23AI is a

29:24tool like

29:24any other.

29:25a tool

29:27can help

29:29you enhance

29:29your work

29:30and improve

29:30your work.

29:31But I

29:32don't think

29:32it will,

29:33you know,

29:33if you don't

29:34actually have

29:34the skills

29:35required to

29:35use that

29:36tool

29:36effectively.

29:37Correct.

29:38That's another

29:38topic for

29:39another day.

29:40Maybe another

29:41episode.

29:42Yeah,

29:42sure.

29:44Also,

29:45I feel

29:46from the

29:47people that

29:48we've

29:48talked to,

29:51those who

29:52come in

29:52for training

29:53in our

29:54organization,

29:55right?

29:56They don't

29:56have the

29:57full picture

29:57of what

29:58it takes

29:58to be a

29:59journalist.

30:00Now,

30:00we don't

30:01know what

30:01exactly is

30:02being taught

30:03in their

30:04classrooms about

30:05the industry

30:06as a whole

30:06because it's

30:07more than

30:08coming to

30:09the office

30:09and reporting.

30:10The industry

30:11is a

30:13challenging

30:13one and

30:15it's gone

30:15through a

30:15lot.

30:16So I

30:16don't think

30:17that,

30:17I'm not

30:18sure,

30:18I don't

30:19want to

30:19presume,

30:19but maybe

30:20that conversation

30:21has not

30:23been had.

30:24Right?

30:26So,

30:27do you

30:28think having

30:29the right

30:29degree is

30:32still relevant

30:32in today's

30:33market?

30:34I think

30:35you kind

30:35of have

30:36to adjust

30:36your

30:36expectation

30:37a bit.

30:37I'm not

30:38just talking

30:38specifically

30:39about

30:39journalism

30:40because I've

30:41seen people

30:41who got

30:43upset because

30:44they feel

30:44like I

30:45studied

30:45something else

30:46but now

30:46I'm forced

30:47to work

30:47in another

30:47field.

30:48But there

30:49are also

30:49people who

30:49take it

30:50in their

30:50stride and

30:50who said

30:51like,

30:51well,

30:51I studied

30:52something else,

30:52now I'm

30:52doing something

30:53else.

30:54For example,

30:54I have a

30:55friend who

30:56studied

30:56mechanical

30:57engineering,

30:57also in

30:58the UK.

30:58He came

30:59back and

30:59I think

31:00for a

31:00time he

31:01used to

31:01write for

31:02a magazine

31:04or portal

31:04that specialises

31:06in cars

31:07or something.

31:08My point

31:09is this,

31:10whatever

31:11courses you

31:12see in

31:12universities

31:12right now,

31:13those were

31:14designed

31:14based on

31:15the needs

31:15that existed

31:16back then.

31:17As we

31:17move forward,

31:19as the world

31:19changes,

31:20the industries

31:21change,

31:22you have

31:22to be

31:23prepared for

31:25the possibility

31:25that you're

31:26going to

31:27have to

31:27diversify.

31:28You're

31:28going to

31:28have to

31:29be open

31:30to doing

31:31things which

31:31were not

31:32taught at

31:32university

31:32before.

31:33But I'm

31:34sure if

31:35you've been

31:35to university,

31:36I don't

31:36know if

31:36you've done

31:37your diploma

31:38or anything

31:38like that,

31:39there are

31:40transferable

31:40skills.

31:41There are

31:41things you've

31:42learned along

31:42the way that

31:43may not

31:44necessarily be

31:44academic,

31:45but you

31:45learn them

31:46and you

31:47can use

31:47them in

31:48your job.

31:49For example,

31:49like for me,

31:50I did

31:51competitive

31:51debating a

31:52lot and

31:53those skills,

31:54the analytic

31:56skills I

31:57developed when

31:57I was doing

31:57that, I

31:58definitely am

31:58still using

31:59them in

31:59my work

31:59right now.

32:01I think

32:02the pandemic

32:03taught us a

32:03lot in

32:04terms of

32:05upskilling,

32:07reskilling,

32:08because the

32:11world was

32:12just, you

32:13know, a

32:13lot of us

32:14were just

32:14sitting ducks.

32:15Well, not us,

32:16because we

32:17were in

32:17the forefront.

32:18We were

32:18the, what

32:20was the

32:20term again?

32:21Frontliner.

32:22Frontliners.

32:23That's right.

32:24We were

32:25reporting

32:26everything.

32:28And so

32:32during the

32:34pandemic,

32:34right, people

32:36who had

32:37their respective

32:39skills realized,

32:41okay, we're

32:43not frontliners,

32:44so what do

32:44we do now?

32:46we're going

32:46to get laid

32:47off, what

32:48do we do

32:48now?

32:49So there

32:50were a lot

32:50of professionals,

32:53as in people

32:54with legal

32:55degrees, medical

32:57degrees, science

32:58degrees, engineering

32:59degrees, a lot

33:00of them went

33:01on to become

33:03e-hailing drivers

33:05and riders,

33:06because that was

33:09what people

33:09needed, because

33:10we were all at

33:11home.

33:11we needed

33:11delivery

33:12services,

33:14right?

33:15So, I

33:18feel that

33:19at that

33:20time, there

33:21were plenty

33:22of people

33:23thinking

33:23whether their

33:27qualifications

33:27were a

33:30waste on

33:31some level.

33:32What's your

33:33take on this?

33:33Okay, I

33:35actually got a

33:36scholarship for

33:37my degree and

33:38my master, it

33:41was a

33:41Malaysian

33:42government

33:42scholarship.

33:43So I've had

33:44these comments

33:45thrown at me a

33:45lot of times,

33:46many, many

33:47times in fact.

33:48Aren't you

33:48wasting your

33:50degree?

33:50Some even went

33:51as far as to

33:51say, you're

33:53wasting taxpayers'

33:53money.

33:54We paid you

33:55good money to

33:56go study in the

33:57UK, now you

33:58come back, you

33:58become a

33:58journalist?

33:59So, I

34:01mean, I

34:02think it's

34:03all how you

34:04see it.

34:05If you see a

34:06degree or a

34:07diploma or

34:08master as

34:10just a mere

34:11vehicle for

34:12you to get a

34:12job, as

34:13just a tool

34:15for you to go

34:16into the job

34:17market, then

34:18you might see

34:19it as a

34:19waste because

34:20you've made

34:20this investment

34:21and it's not

34:21paying off.

34:22But if you

34:23see it as a

34:24place where you

34:25actually get

34:26knowledge, as

34:27a place where

34:28you actually

34:29learn about

34:31yourself and

34:32learn about

34:32the world, then

34:33it would not

34:34be a waste.

34:35Because going

34:36to university,

34:37getting higher

34:38education, getting

34:39tertiary education

34:39and all that, is

34:40more than just

34:41about getting a

34:42piece of

34:42certificate.

34:43It's also about

34:44the things and

34:45experience you

34:46get along the

34:47way.

34:47Because when

34:48you go to

34:49university, unless

34:50you stay in

34:50your dormitory all

34:52day long, I'm

34:53sure you go

34:54outside, you do

34:54things, you mix

34:55up with the

34:56lecturers, you

34:56mingle with

34:57the lecturers,

34:57other students,

34:58people from

34:59other backgrounds,

35:00if you really

35:00optimise your

35:01time there, you

35:02are bound to

35:03obtain a lot of

35:05skills, which

35:05you're going to

35:06definitely use.

35:07I mean, the

35:07certificate helps,

35:09sure, but having

35:10those other

35:11skills will help

35:12you stand out in

35:13the job market.

35:14And who knows

35:15what the job

35:15market is going

35:16to look like in

35:1610, 20 years

35:17from now with

35:18AI coming into

35:19the picture.

35:19You have to be

35:20ready for that.

35:20So it's not a

35:22waste.

35:22That's right.

35:24How has your

35:27journey made you

35:28more open-minded

35:29about people's

35:31career pivots?

35:33Before you

35:34answer, I feel

35:37that, again,

35:38studying counselling,

35:40you try, really

35:43try to be less

35:44judgmental.

35:46Don't you think?

35:47So you were

35:48judgmental before

35:48this?

35:50I mean, I was.

35:51I definitely was.

35:53I mean, we all

35:53are to some degree.

35:54On some level, I

35:55think I still am.

35:57But I criticise

35:58myself more than

35:59other people,

36:02right?

36:03Because at this

36:04point, if you

36:06ask me if I

36:08could go back,

36:09back in time,

36:11and redo

36:13things, I

36:16might, I

36:17might, I

36:17just might.

36:19Maybe, had

36:20I studied

36:21harder in

36:22school, right,

36:24and possibly

36:26entered the

36:28science stream,

36:30who knows,

36:31I could have

36:32become a

36:32doctor.

36:34But doctors

36:34go through

36:35challenging stuff

36:35now, right?

36:37We've published

36:37so many stories

36:38about the

36:40medical industry,

36:41right?

36:42So many

36:43challenges.

36:44Again, my

36:46life could

36:47have gone

36:47a hundred

36:48different ways.

36:50And

36:50clearly, there's

36:51no way for me

36:52to hop in a

36:53time machine to

36:54change anything.

36:55So the only

36:56way is forward.

36:59Right?

36:59What do you

36:59think?

37:00Could I, would I

37:01want to go back in

37:02time and change?

37:03Would you pick

37:04the same degree?

37:06Probably not.

37:07Probably not.

37:08Probably not,

37:08really?

37:08Probably not,

37:09yeah.

37:09But what would

37:10you have studied?

37:11I would love,

37:15I found out in

37:16recent years,

37:17there's a field

37:18called international

37:19political economy

37:21that studies the

37:23relationships between

37:24economy and

37:25politics and how

37:26they affect each

37:27other.

37:28Is that a

37:28combination of

37:29economics and

37:30economics and

37:32political science?

37:33Yes.

37:33Okay.

37:34For example,

37:35you look at

37:35how the,

37:37you know,

37:38like, for

37:38example,

37:39how, you

37:40know, because of

37:41the Great

37:41Depression,

37:42how that led

37:42to the formation

37:43of supranational

37:46international

37:47bodies,

37:48you know,

37:48you look at,

37:49for example,

37:50European Union,

37:50for example,

37:51which is a huge

37:52political bloc.

37:53It is a

37:53political bloc,

37:54but how it has

37:55helped to

37:55necessitate

37:56economic

37:57exchanges between

37:59those European

38:00countries.

38:00So these are

38:01the things that

38:01are studied,

38:02you know,

38:02and given how

38:03chaotic the

38:04world is today,

38:05you know,

38:05Trump in power,

38:07you know,

38:07you have,

38:07you know,

38:08so many things

38:09going on,

38:10politics and

38:10economics are

38:11becoming more

38:11intertwined than

38:12ever.

38:13Oftentimes,

38:14economic concerns

38:15drive political

38:17decisions.

38:18And those

38:18concerns and

38:19decisions have

38:21to be published

38:22in the various

38:23publications so

38:25people can

38:26know.

38:26So in that

38:27sense,

38:28our jobs

38:29are vital

38:31because we

38:32need to

38:32disseminate all

38:33these

38:34information.

38:36Okay,

38:37true.

38:38That's a lot

38:38to think about,

38:39yes, but

38:39true.

38:40It is true.

38:41So,

38:43Farid,

38:43what are your

38:44parting thoughts

38:45when it comes

38:46to the

38:49various

38:49qualifications

38:50that enhance

38:52the world of

38:53journalism?

38:55Sorry,

38:55come again?

38:56It's a lot of

38:57questions.

38:59How have,

38:59sorry,

38:59what was your

39:00question again?

39:01What are your

39:02parting thoughts

39:02for this

39:03episode about

39:05unrelated degrees

39:07that enhance

39:11journalism?

39:13Well,

39:14I think,

39:16I recently

39:17read an

39:18article or

39:18something about

39:19how newsrooms

39:22around the

39:22world,

39:22especially in

39:23the West,

39:24diversifying

39:25their workforce,

39:26their journalists.

39:27So they don't

39:27want just white

39:28journalists.

39:29They want

39:29journalists of

39:30colour,

39:30they want people

39:31of colour

39:31because they

39:32think that

39:32will allow

39:33them to

39:34better reflect

39:34the demography

39:36when they

39:36write about

39:37them.

39:37And I

39:38think this

39:38applies to

39:39when it

39:39comes to

39:40backgrounds too,

39:41education

39:41backgrounds too.

39:43You know,

39:43when you have

39:44doctors,

39:45I'm not saying

39:45doctors,

39:46maybe they

39:46are engineers,

39:47maybe they

39:47are people

39:48who specialize

39:49in counselling,

39:50all come

39:51together.

39:52So I

39:52think that

39:53will make

39:55for,

39:56I don't

39:56know,

39:57interesting

39:58roundtable

39:59discussion.

40:00A more

40:00representative

40:01editorial

40:02tone or

40:03whatever you

40:04want to

40:04call it.

40:04Yeah.

40:06Okay,

40:06well,

40:07this is

40:08our

40:09last

40:10episode

40:11for this

40:11season.

40:12And it's

40:13been quite

40:14an interesting

40:15journey for

40:17it,

40:17don't you

40:17think?

40:18It is,

40:19it is,

40:19definitely.

40:20And we

40:20appreciate all

40:21the people

40:21who have

40:22come to

40:22view us.

40:23We really

40:25appreciate your

40:26support.

40:27Yeah,

40:27and we

40:29might be

40:29back for

40:30the next

40:31season.

40:32Stay tuned

40:33and thank

40:34you everyone

40:35for listening

40:36to us.

40:37This podcast

40:37will be

40:38available on

40:39YouTube

40:39at Star

40:40Online and

40:41www.star.com.my

40:43slash metro.

EP10: Brains behind the bylines: How having unrelated degrees enhance journalism | Life & the City

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