- 8 months ago
Singer-songwriter Valerie June returns to Biscuits & Jam to talk with Sid Evans about her deep Tennessee roots, artistic evolution, and powerful new album, Owls, Omens and Oracles. From her hometown of Humboldt to touring with Dave Matthews and collaborating with Mavis Staples, Valerie shares stories of family, resilience, and creativity. Plus, she opens up about her teenage experience with homelessness, her great-grandmother Bessie, and how coming home continues to shape her music.
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00:00Valerie June, welcome back to Biscuits and Jam.
00:04Thanks for having me and remembering me, Sid.
00:07I appreciate it.
00:08It's so great to see you again.
00:10It's kind of been a minute.
00:11I mean, the last time we did this was, I checked, it was back in 2021.
00:17Oh, the time has flowed.
00:20It was still kind of, you know, pandemic times.
00:23And you had a new album out called The Moon and Stars Prescriptions for Dreamers.
00:32Absolutely.
00:33It's been a while.
00:34Well, how have you been?
00:36I've been really great.
00:38I just played this amazing show yesterday in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and I got to perform
00:44the songs from the new record live for the first time.
00:48And I was invited to teach.
00:51So I was Professor June all week.
00:54I taught three college classes a day, and it was really amazing to be in the young energy
01:02with their minds, just churning and working so hard to study and create a beautiful world.
01:10What was your biggest takeaway from that?
01:13I mean, what did you, you know, you were the teacher, but I'm wondering if you kind of learned
01:17something from that experience of being in front of those kids.
01:21I really, really learned a lot in the sense that my approach to teaching is that it's
01:29okay to ask questions.
01:31Even asking questions sometimes can be a dangerous thing.
01:34It depends.
01:36So be fearless in asking questions.
01:38And so as I was asking questions, then they started asking questions and all the questions
01:45just not always having to have an answer, but the fact that we're being inquisitive together
01:50as a community, it can lead to growing and creating quite interesting changes and observations
02:00of people's differing opinions even.
02:03And one of the songs on my record is called Endless Tree.
02:07So I told the students, I said, I'm ready to talk about Endless Tree after being with
02:11y'all because the lyrics are, are you ready to see a world where we could all be free?
02:16Branches of an endless tree, although we may not all agree, still live together peacefully.
02:22So the students prepared me for what I'm going to have to say about this song.
02:28Well, you must have been doing something right if they were asking a lot of questions
02:31because there's nothing worse than when they're just sitting there and not asking questions, you know?
02:36That's what my sister said.
02:38She was like, a lot of times in the universities, you've got to have an exciting subject or be
02:43an exciting teacher because they will take a nap.
02:46That's right.
02:47I know.
02:47That is the truth.
02:49I was so scared.
02:50I was terrified.
02:51I've never done anything like that.
02:54Have you got more teaching in your future?
02:56Well, if another university invites me, I probably won't say no.
03:00But usually what I teach is yoga or meditation or sometimes songwriting, but the perspective
03:07is not, let's sit down and write a song.
03:09It's how to live in the world and let the songs come.
03:13And I was even reading a book called Black Women Songwriters, Singer Songwriters, and
03:20one of the writers in there said, the biggest thing I do as a songwriter is make space in
03:27my life for the songs to come.
03:30And I was like, okay, so I'm not the only one who writes that way.
03:33And I met a lady last night and she's a songwriter.
03:37And I said, well, how do you write songs?
03:40Because my favorite question to ask songwriters, and she said, I write songs when I'm busy and
03:46I do too.
03:47If I'm washing dishes, if I'm sweeping the floor, if I'm driving, if I'm doing something,
03:52dreaming, then I can write a song.
03:55But if I sit down and I try to write a song, that's why I like to stay busy.
03:59People are like, you're so busy.
04:00You got so much work.
04:01You're doing so much.
04:02I'm like, because that is when the songs come.
04:05Well, that's so interesting.
04:07You know, I kind of think of people trying to create space for themselves and quiet and
04:14they want to be alone and sit down so that they can write.
04:17And you're kind of the opposite.
04:19You want to be going.
04:19You want to be doing something.
04:21Well, there's quiet in my going, though, because I do like being alone and I like to spend most
04:28of the day alone.
04:29So most of it is pretty solitary.
04:33Yeah.
04:33Well, whatever you're doing is working.
04:36So keep it up.
04:39So, Valerie, you're in New York right now, I believe.
04:43And over the years, you've split your time between New York and back home in Tennessee,
04:53seeing your family in Humboldt.
04:56Is that right?
04:57Yeah, I have a tiny place by the pond there and I call it my tiny fairy studio.
05:02And I just write and slow down and hang out with the muskrats and the great blue heron.
05:08And, you know, that's where I saw the owl who inspired the title of the record.
05:16It was a very rare visit because we've had that land and been there for 20 years.
05:22And one day I was waking up and I was making my morning tea and I looked across the pond
05:29and on a post across on the far side, there was some looking back at me and the fog on the pond.
05:36I was like, what is that?
05:38That's not my great blue heron.
05:39That's not my turtles.
05:40That's not my muskrats.
05:42What is that?
05:43And so I went up closer and I saw that it was an owl and it was looking in at me and I was looking out at it.
05:50And I was like, okay, this is so sacred.
05:53So I just stood there and drank my tea.
05:56It's tried not to move very much.
05:58So hopefully it wouldn't move.
05:59But it came two to three times over the course of a year.
06:04And then I just started to say to myself, well, if it is sacred and it has a message for me,
06:12then let me start to see what owls represent.
06:16And in studying what owls represent, they have the ability to see so clearly in the dark.
06:24So that's one thing.
06:26But then also they carry wisdom and they're seen as very, very wise old owls many times in stories and fables.
06:34And they also carry mystery.
06:37So it comes to back to the working with the students at the university where so many of our questions had no answer.
06:45And we live in times where some might say, hey, we're living in dark times and what's going on in some ways.
06:53But there's the owl who can see, who can see in the dark and can help find the way.
07:00So I think that was a message for me.
07:04That there is, you know, we're all creating the future here.
07:09We're all oracles here together.
07:11We create the future for those to come after us.
07:14We're the ancestors, basically, of tomorrow.
07:18So the owl is just saying, hey, you know, we can see through this.
07:23We can see to the light and we can leave light for those who are coming after us.
07:28And it's a job.
07:30Yes, it is.
07:32Yes, it is.
07:33Well, I love that the new album is rooted in Tennessee like that.
07:39It's rooted in your hometown.
07:41And congratulations on that, by the way.
07:45It's called Owls, Omens, and Oracles.
07:48You always have the best titles for your albums.
07:51And this is right up there at the top.
07:55I just love it.
07:56And I love that it's got the connection back to Humboldt.
07:58Me too.
07:59And, you know, it's funny because I was at the Humboldt Museum recently.
08:03And they put my records in the museum.
08:08And it just meant the world to me because people from the town came.
08:11It was beginning of the year.
08:13They came and they were like, you know, just able to share with me the stories of how they
08:18might have seen me on CBS or they might have seen me in Memphis or they might have seen me
08:23playing on the street in Helena, Arkansas, or that they bought my record back when I was
08:28selling it out of my truck.
08:30These stories.
08:31So we are growing together.
08:33And one of the highlights of my life is being inducted into my hometown, Humboldt Hall of
08:39Fame.
08:40I don't care.
08:41You know, like I was happily nominated for the Americanas or the Grammys, but to be nominated,
08:47I mean, to be in my hometown Hall of Fame, I was like, that's high on my list.
08:52Well, last time I talked to you, I think you had a Grammy nomination, but you might have
08:57been even more excited that you were going to be in the parade.
09:01The Humboldt Parade.
09:03Is that right?
09:04There was some parade happening.
09:06So we did the parade and we ended at City Hall.
09:10We started at the top of Main Street.
09:11We came down.
09:13And when we got to City Hall, that's when they had the induction ceremony.
09:18And it was just a beautiful day for me.
09:20I really, really loved it.
09:22And it's also so sweet to see we have murals that are being created.
09:27And oftentimes it'll be the students from the school, like high school and junior high
09:32coming to help on the murals.
09:33And those bringing art to our town is so cool to me because we didn't have murals, you know,
09:41like we didn't have community participation or creative projects.
09:45And it's something that really it's wonderful because it brings races together.
09:51It brings ages together and it brings everyone together for the community, which is a really
09:57special thing in our small town, you know.
10:00But I think it's nice when small towns can do that in general.
10:04And Jackson was nominated, like was in the USA Today as one of the Jackson, Tennessee is
10:10where I was born.
10:11And it's the other town on the other side of the land.
10:13So if I go to two minutes this way, I hit Jackson, two minutes that way, I hit Humboldt.
10:19But it it was like mentioned in the USA Today as one of the most artistic cities for street
10:26art in the country.
10:28That's great.
10:29Art Jackson, are you serious?
10:31But yeah, so people are buzzing.
10:34You should see what it does to people in the community to get that kind of nod or recognition.
10:40They are fired up, I'm sure.
10:42Yeah.
10:43Valerie, when you're when you're home and you said you've got a little place kind of on
10:49it's on a lake or something.
10:51Well, we have a pond behind the house.
10:52It's a little pond.
10:54So what's it looking like when you walk out your front door there?
10:58Kind of paint a picture of the of the land for me.
11:01Yeah.
11:01The front door is just fields and there's a family down the way and there's a church to
11:09the right left.
11:12I'm not good with my direction sometimes.
11:15And then there's fields behind and there's fields to the right.
11:19So the fields are either with cotton, corn or soybeans.
11:26They trade it out.
11:27So there are the fields and then there's the pond and, you know, the city is coming.
11:34So it's not as far.
11:36It's not as far out as it used to be.
11:38I know it used to be so far away.
11:42And I kind of miss that because the streetlights aren't to us yet, but they're not far.
11:49And so I'm like holding on like, oh, my God, I'm going to have to go somewhere else for
11:54that quiet, dark sky that I'm able to see the stars and write moon and moon and stars
11:59prescription for dreamers.
12:01So where am I going to do that when all the lights come?
12:04Um, so, um, that's starting to happen and yeah, I mean, it's just so, it's such an interesting
12:12thing because one of our older neighbors passed last week and, and I just was, you know, I
12:22was remembering stories, my dad communicating with him, or even when, you know, I am out on
12:29my little tiny house porch, he would get on his tractor and come up and talk to me.
12:35And, you know, he gave me a gift recently that's been very helpful for my life.
12:41It was a tarot card deck and his daughter painted each card and she is just this amazing artist
12:47and it's all around the music.
12:49It's on the blues, it's on jazz, it's on all, all musicians, but she created a deck for Southern,
12:55um, music and roots music all around.
13:00And so he was like, you've got to have my daughter's deck.
13:03And so he gave it to me and, um, and I, he gave me her number and I got in touch with
13:09her cause they weren't, she wasn't raised on the land, you know, his house is kind of
13:13to the back of us.
13:14And so she was new in his life.
13:17She actually was, had to discover him.
13:20She didn't know who her dad was, but when she discovered him, she discovered that I lived
13:25up there and she liked my music.
13:27And so she gave him the deck to give to me.
13:30And when I looked at the deck, it was so beautiful.
13:33This is a white family that's been on the land.
13:36Actually, my parents got the house from them.
13:38It was on the auction and my dad had, you know, we just lost our house in a house fire
13:45and we were living in a motel.
13:47It was five kids and two parents and we had nowhere to go.
13:50And my dad ended up getting a job building a, rebuilding a church that had been burned
13:55down in a fire that was, um, it was a racially charged fire.
14:00And even like the president, you know, had come at the time and spoken against the violence
14:05that had happened.
14:06This happens in the South quite a lot, but it happened during my lifetime.
14:11And, um, when my dad got the money that advanced from the church, he took that money and went
14:16down to Charlie's and there was an auction and he had enough in cash to get the house.
14:23And so he got the house from Charlie.
14:26Charlie had built the house and now Charlie's passed.
14:29But the fact that his daughter was this woman who also understood, um, like music and black
14:40culture and, and roots and blues and everything, you know, cause sometimes, you know, Charlie
14:46would be kind of on the line about like, whether he liked us or not.
14:50So, so I didn't know if he liked us or not, you know, and so when he came down that day
14:57and he gave me that gift, I was like, oh, okay, this is a great sign.
15:02And I'm sad.
15:04I am sad that we don't have time.
15:06Cause he said, you know, I know you play that banjo.
15:09I can hear you sometimes.
15:11He's like, come on down, get on the porch and hang out with me.
15:14He's like, I got some banjos from my father.
15:16And I was like, oh my God, it never happened through the years.
15:22Only lately, you know?
15:23Well, you've got the connection to the daughter.
15:25I know.
15:26And I'm excited about that.
15:28And we do stay in touch now.
15:30Um, so, and you know, his wife's still there.
15:34So my mom's a widow and she's a widow and my mom was able to be there for her last week.
15:41Cause I'm on, I've been on the road and teaching this week.
15:44So how old were you, Valerie, when, when that happened that you were living in the motel for a while?
15:51It happened when I was 13 for going on 14, it was in the winterish time and my birthday's in January.
15:58So, yeah, that was a hard time and we lost everything.
16:04I learned though, I learned, hey, what do I own?
16:08What do I, what's really mine?
16:10You know?
16:12Um, and then I learned what community means because the people at the church, like they just gave us stuff.
16:22Like we even stayed before the motel with the church family, they took us in.
16:28And this was, when I was very young, we went to a predominantly black church.
16:32So there was about 500 black folks, maybe five or six white folks at the church.
16:37But then when we moved to the country, we, my parents were like, we ain't driving all the way across town just because we're black.
16:43We're going to go to church of Christ right down the street.
16:45So it was 500 white folks and we were pretty much the only black family.
16:50And so when that happened, people just gave and gave like from food, making a casserole to clothes.
16:59I might've had some overalls too big for me or whatever that had been given.
17:03Even like my first car, which was an old beater, but I'm so grateful.
17:09Um, well, opening their home, letting us, our family stay there for a few weeks to get on our feet.
17:16And then once we were able to, we got the motel and, um, and just, I was able to learn.
17:23Like if someone went hunting and killed a deer, they would bring some meat home and they would be like,
17:29well, we had in the deep freeze for the winter, you know, it's that kind of thing.
17:33So the community was everything in that time.
17:37And I learned that also when I hit hard times and went through my first divorce and things and,
17:44and I was homeless for a little chunk of my life.
17:48I, I learned that all the things that I needed to let go of in that time,
17:54cause I had nowhere to keep them.
17:56It's okay to let it go.
17:59Things will come back to you.
18:00Oh, that's even a song on the record.
18:03Right.
18:04There you go.
18:04As I'm talking about it, I'm like, shoot, I sang it last night.
18:10Well, we have to talk about that in a minute, but so you were 13.
18:16Were you a musical person at that point?
18:20Was music a really important part of your life at that point?
18:23As a listener, yes.
18:24And also with my father being from birth, this record collector, he had the absolute perfect stereo.
18:33Don't touch this.
18:34Don't do that.
18:35That kind of thing.
18:36And all of that went up in the fire.
18:40But as a child, the music collection was like the highlight of the house, you know?
18:45And it was gospel, R&B mostly, and blues sometimes.
18:53But once we had the fire, then he would just use his car as the place where he would listen.
18:59And so through his music love, I was able to fall in love with music.
19:07And I didn't start buying records, though.
19:09I started talking to the guys in the band yesterday because they were talking about buying tapes and things like that as their first music.
19:17And I was like, oh, I didn't buy tapes.
19:19I remember my dad had records, tapes, and A-tracks, and I would listen to those.
19:24But my first thing I bought were, they were CDs.
19:28So I was late in actually making purchases.
19:31I mostly listened to things that were on the radio and things that my family listened to.
19:38How's your brother doing?
19:40The last time we talked about him being a really good cook, and you were always really excited.
19:47When he was doing the cooking, has he made anything for you lately?
19:54Well, he hadn't made anything lately, but we went out to dinner.
19:59And, I mean, even his choices in picking places is amazing.
20:03And when we, this year, my mom turned 70.
20:06So we finally, you know, people talk all around in Jackson about where they're going for a little vacay.
20:14And Destin is a big destination.
20:16And so we said, we'll do a family trip to Destin.
20:20We went down, and we had the best time.
20:22We had a grill.
20:24So, you know, some chicken got grilled and different things.
20:27But he was like, I'm taking off.
20:29I'm taking off.
20:30We're on vacay.
20:31His name's Jason, right?
20:32Yeah.
20:33And you talked about how he would dance and sing a little bit when he cooked.
20:41And I was wondering if there was a connection between music and food for you growing up.
20:49For me growing up, I guess you're right.
20:53Yeah.
20:54There was.
20:55I never really thought about it.
20:59But, yeah.
21:00Because, like, so, especially at the holiday times, there would be, you know, Gran and my aunts and everyone in the kitchen making baked apples, yeast rolls.
21:11Like, strawberry shortcake greens, chicken, turkey, ham, like, all the things.
21:19There was nothing left off the menu.
21:22Green bean casserole, seven-layer casserole, like, all the different ones.
21:28And better put the marshmallows on the sweet potatoes.
21:35But while they were doing that, I would be running around the house with my cousins and brothers and sisters, like, okay, guys, we got to put on a show.
21:44We got to put on a show, an after-dinner show.
21:46So we would choose the songs we were going to sing.
21:50We would listen to the songs, and we would learn our parts for the songs.
21:54And then we would go in after dinner and tell all the adults while they're talking about politics in the world, guys, get in here.
22:01There's a show.
22:02We're on a show.
22:05So all day while they were making this amazing meal, and, like, by the end of it, they culminated with the show every holiday.
22:16And so that was a big part of growing up and just sharing music with my family.
22:23And those meals, I'll never forget.
22:26Gran, she left.
22:27She passed at 96.
22:29That was a few years ago.
22:32But I even sang on the record order of time about piling the church pew rows.
22:39And then about Gran making the best east rows.
22:44And how, you know, in a lot of life, it's been a long, lonely road.
22:48And when I sang that, I saw a visual of the road where we used to get dropped off.
22:54The bus wouldn't go down to Crockett County Line, and we weren't really supposed to be going to Madison County.
23:00But we were still, we had just moved to the country, so we were still in the system.
23:04And my parents didn't want to, like, break us out in the middle of the year.
23:09And so we were still going there.
23:12But because the bus didn't go, we got dropped off right at this end of this long gravel road.
23:19And we had to walk from there all the way down to our lands in our house, the one that burned.
23:26The land's still there.
23:27We still have the land, but there's nothing on the land anymore.
23:30But, yeah, I remember that walk with my brothers and sisters and how it was maybe like a mile and just the gravel under our feet.
23:42And, you know, I remember that.
23:45It was also, you know, I also remember the challenges of walking that road because some of the kids, you know,
23:51they would call us the N-word or throw rocks at us.
23:54They didn't much like us because we were out there in the sticks.
23:57And they were like, what are you doing here, you know?
24:00So that's why, like, sometimes I wonder, sometimes I feel such growth in the area because when I see people coming together,
24:12many colors, many ages, like we have with the art in Humboldt or with the museum and different things,
24:19then I think, okay, we're growing.
24:22And it's necessary.
24:24We're getting somewhere.
24:26We're making progress.
24:27Yeah.
24:27We're up.
24:28So we can tell a new story.
24:32And that's what, that's what has made me so happy about, you know, just all of it from the food to the music to the art that I get to see this in my lifetime.
24:44I don't remember who it was who said it, but, you know, I also have the place in New York and have a neighbor who died of 100 years old.
24:55So Charlie and Mr. Carter both died around the same sphere of time.
25:02And it's just this idea that if you do get to live that long, that you would see so many changes.
25:11And what if they were good?
25:12How cool to be able to say, man, when I was little, such and such happened, but that would not happen today.
25:20You know, that was how we've grown as humans.
25:23So I'm hoping that if I get to live as long as Mr. Carter or even my brother-in-law's grandmother is the old, second oldest person in Mississippi.
25:33She's 110.
25:34Wow.
25:35Valerie, really?
25:37She made the news.
25:37Yeah.
25:38Wow.
25:38And she's so great.
25:40She still gardens.
25:41She's still doing stuff.
25:43She said her favorite things were going to church and gardening.
25:48Wow.
25:49Yeah.
25:49And so I'm like, if I live that long, I'm hoping I see some of these changes.
25:55Some more changes, you know.
25:57That's the truth.
25:58Valerie, you're someone who is interested in the past, and I think as much as you are looking to the future, you also have an appreciation for the past and kind of where you've come from.
26:12And I saw you recently posting some photos of your great-grandparents on your mother's side, I believe, who were landowners in Tennessee at a time when that was pretty rare.
26:29And their names were James and Bessie.
26:33Is that right?
26:34Yes.
26:35Yes.
26:35Tell me a little bit about them.
26:38Well, as Gran said, well, the land that Gran and Granddad had land that was given to them from Gran's father, that was given to him from his father.
26:49And there was racial mixing, and he was the only boy.
26:57All the other kids were girls, so the father gave the land to him.
27:03And so when he got this land, he, you know, gave it, divided it with his kids.
27:12And so Gran had her portion.
27:14And my grandfather owned a construction business, and he built houses and bridges and all kinds of things on the Kentucky-Tennessee line.
27:26And so him and Gran built a house.
27:30And that house was the house where all of my, these shows that I just told you about, they took place.
27:36That's where it all happened.
27:37That's where it all happened.
27:37Yeah, of the house where my grandfather built.
27:40It had a cellar, it had a regular floor, and then it had another layer up top.
27:45And, you know, just land all around it.
27:48Which that land, Gran then gave to her, her children.
27:54And slowly they're selling it, which kind of makes me sad because it's beautiful land.
28:01I mean, the Kentucky-Tennessee line, the fields, the luscious greens, it's just so beautiful.
28:08The kudzu, like, you know, all of it.
28:11And so, but knowing that so many people of color, black folks, indigenous folks, like many folks, we couldn't hold on to our lands.
28:24And even, like, just that land in general is a, to be, if you have land, you have a responsibility.
28:32Even if it's a home with just a little bitty plot of land, you have to care for that land.
28:38You have to care for it because it is what sustains us.
28:42And I love to connect with land on that level.
28:46But there were so many families who were ripped away and displaced and, like, torn from the land and not able to, like, keep home.
28:59And in this time, it's still important for us to have home, you know, in our country and in our nation.
29:05So, I think about that, and I feel very lucky that they were able to keep that land for so many years in my family line.
29:14But I also know that, say, on my dad's side, there's so many, like, people on my father's side.
29:25I don't have photos.
29:26I also don't have, like, any history of ownership of anything, really.
29:34And so, my mother's side, it's very clear that there's more mixing of the races.
29:40And on my father's side, it's darker.
29:43And so, I even question that, too, because it's like, okay, would he have gotten that land if he hadn't had a mixed family?
29:51You know, my grandfather and all of these things.
29:55And I, you know, I doubt it.
29:57And it makes me sad.
29:59It breaks my heart.
30:01But I look at it, and I'm like, we're here.
30:05And we can all learn to respect the land more.
30:09And we're going to have to with everything happening with the climate and with the things that we need to bring our awareness to now.
30:15We have to.
30:17Yeah, that's the truth.
30:18You know, that picture of your great-grandmother, Bessie, is really something.
30:26I mean, that one in particular looks like it could have been taken last week.
30:31I mean, it's really, and she looks so young.
30:35And this is someone that you knew, right?
30:39You got to actually spend time with her.
30:41Yes.
30:42Oh, Mom Bessie.
30:44She died at 102.
30:46And so I would go, they would drop me off at Mom Bessie's house, me and my brothers and sisters.
30:53And I would braid her hair.
30:57She had blue eyes, and she had, like, nappy gray hair, but it was good hair.
31:02It's not like my nappy hair.
31:04You know, you can hardly get a comb.
31:05I mean, your hair is a whole other story.
31:08Yeah, you can get a comb through Mom Bessie's.
31:11So I would brush her hair, and then I would put two braids on each side.
31:16And then she was diabetic.
31:19I'm diabetic.
31:20This runs in the family line on both sides, you know.
31:23So I got that when I was, like, maybe 27, 28.
31:29And so she would sometimes need me to make her teeth and put Sweet and Low in there and bring it to her.
31:35And she was in her chair most of the time, but she had to walk her.
31:39So sometimes she would get up and go, and she had this big old high bed.
31:42And I was always like, how can she get in that bed?
31:45And she could hardly walk across the house.
31:47But she got in that bed by herself at night, and she also, before I would leave, she would say, come here, baby.
31:54Come here.
31:55Go give your grandma Bessie a kiss.
31:58And she would give me this juicy kiss with just spit running down my face.
32:04I'd be like, no, don't make me go, my Bessie.
32:06But I now look back at those kisses, and I'm like, I feel every time she gave me that kiss that I was getting, like, kind of like a blessing from her, from my life, you know.
32:21And I think she probably understood that, you know, there would be challenges like that old, long, lonely road where I'm like, why are these kids doing this to us?
32:30You know, but she understood, and she was like, I'm just going to give you a blessing.
32:37Here's some sugar.
32:38And I got it.
32:39And she had a, not a very big yard, but she had a, one of those old mowers.
32:46It's like a little, just the blades and you push it.
32:49And so I enjoyed mowing her yard because it was like a toy almost.
32:54But, you know, it's just so many memories of Mom Bessie's place.
32:58And I had an aunt who lived right next door who was her daughter, and she was a very mysterious woman, very much like, I would say, a hippie.
33:08And I would go over to her house, and she had the beaded strands.
33:12So you enter the door, and you're going through these beaded strands into this hippie house.
33:17So it was a really, really good time for memories.
33:22And they're gone.
33:23They're gone now, my people of that age.
33:27Which, I only have one left.
33:29Well, you were lucky to have the time that you had with them, and particularly with your great-grandmother.
33:34I mean, that's just, you know, not everybody gets that.
33:37So, you know.
33:38I appreciate it.
33:39That's a lucky thing to have.
33:41We've got to talk about music for a minute.
33:43You've got so much going on, and we've got to catch up on a couple things.
33:48I want to talk about the new album in a sec, but I want to ask you first about the collaboration that you did with Mavis Staples.
34:00You know, Mavis is someone that I've always wanted to have on this podcast, and it hasn't worked out.
34:05But she's just, you know, she's just kind of a hero to so many and such an inspiration.
34:14And you look at her career, and she is still out there doing concerts and making music.
34:23And I know you got to work with her a little bit.
34:25I'm just curious what, you know, tell me about your collaboration with her.
34:30Well, I will say just that every time I get to be in the presence of Mavis, the level of sainthood just rises.
34:41I had a fan yesterday who wrote me a very beautiful card and reminded me of someone that I respected growing up.
34:47And it had the quotes from that person, and that person was Mother Teresa.
34:53So to me, Mavis is our Mother Teresa.
34:56She is a saint.
34:58We should put her in the sisterhood, because what she does for all of us, she is so joyful.
35:06And so she does not enter a room that doesn't live brighter like that when she, like, exists.
35:13And so every time I get the chance to work with her, I'm just like, oh, thank you for even knowing I'm on the planet.
35:20But when I was invited to work on the project with her, that was the first time that I met her.
35:28And it was an invitation that came from Andy at Antirecords, who was creating the record.
35:35And he put M. Ward with Mavis Staples.
35:38And M. produced the record.
35:40And I was a fan of M. Ward, too.
35:43Like, I would be serving coffee in Memphis, and M. Ward's helicopter would come on, or Undertaker.
35:48And I'd be like, stop!
35:50Just stop everything!
35:51We gotta listen to this song!
35:53Did y'all hear that sound?
35:54Did y'all hear that song?
35:56And so to have both of them together, and then they invited artists like Nico Kates, me, different artists, to give a song for Mavis to sing.
36:05And then flew me out to L.A.
36:09This is a big deal.
36:11I mean, I've been to L.A. like one time at that point, to sing in the studio with her.
36:20It was the highest moment.
36:22The sainthood.
36:24It was like Grandma's Kisses, Grape on Messies.
36:27It was like that!
36:29It's just like, oh my God, thank you!
36:31And the song y'all did was called?
36:33Living on the High Note.
36:35It's called High Note, but she named the record after the song.
36:38Can you believe that?
36:39She named the record after it's called Living on the High Note.
36:43So I get chills when I think about that collaboration.
36:47It's just so good to get to be with her and work on stuff.
36:52And then I was working on my record, and it was the pandemics, so I wanted to see if she would sing on my record, but it was the pandemics, so she was not out.
37:04It was during the shutdown, and we were able to do a deluxe later, and she went in the studio, and remotely, like, from Zoom.
37:15And they zoomed me in, and she sang on Why the Bright Stars Glow.
37:20And that, too, that, too, is equally amazing.
37:23But to be in her presence, if anybody has a chance to go to a show, just stand in the room, you'll feel what she's giving you and how she lives people, you know?
37:34What an amazing person she is.
37:38That's such a great story.
37:41I got to ask you about one more, and it's someone that I know pretty well.
37:50It's a collaboration that you did on a song called Big Dream, and it was for an album called My Black Country, the songs of Alice Randall.
38:00And I know Alice and her daughter Caroline pretty well, and it's a great song and a great project.
38:10What can you tell me about that and what it meant to you to be a part of it?
38:13Wow, just to be able to know Alice and know what she keeps, she's like a record keeper for all of our history in music, and I just love that.
38:27So to get to meet her and to get to meet Caroline, and then they came to New York even, and I was here at the time, and they invited me to be on Kelly Clarkson with them.
38:35And so that interaction of just being in the green room and talking about our history and our music and what she does for all of us and being the forerunner, being someone who laid the yellow brick road or the red carpet so that we can be able to come together and share our music is epic.
39:00And it's people like Sonny Ward, Adia Victoria, me, like, she lifts all of us in the same way that Mavis does, but in a specific, focused, like, way of study that is much needed.
39:12Because we needed to have a scholar who can explain to people, well, this is what Valerie's doing, this is what Sonny's doing, this is what we're all doing, you know, these different things.
39:24And she can sit and say how they relate to things that previously came, and why they relate to this time period, and why they deserve a place currently, but also are going each in our own branches and our own way forward, you know.
39:41And so to have a scholar who holds that place is so important, because I don't have a college degree, I just study from, I even told the students, I said, I came to know black history, not through reading Frederick Douglass, it was too painful for me, not through reading The Souls of Black Folks by W.E.B. Du Bois, that was too painful for me.
40:05I came through the blues, and the blues, I was raised in the country, and Grand Church, we sang every single song that was in the book at the white church and the black church, we all sang them country because we sound like me, we sound country, that's just how we sound, so the songs sound country to me, I can't not sound country, even if I do a rock song, I still sound country because it's what I sound like.
40:33And so whenever we have artists who are just in the art and learning through the art about, you know, discovering our history and ourselves and the beauty of it all, and the beauty of the way, you know, we've helped to create this, the music of America and the threads of the quilt, then we have Alice who's able to come back and say,
41:00okay, okay, in a very intellectual way, this is why this music, you know, how it connects, and the full timeline, if you sit down with her, she will have every single thing straight, clocked work, like give you the date, the exact time that that event occurred,
41:20and why it relates to blues, jazz, or any genre, not just country, but specifically, she does focus on country in that book, so I thought, oh my God, when I was doing that residency at Gettysburg, they told me she had just come before me, and I was like, I'm glad y'all didn't tell me until I was leaving, because I would have been that much more nervous, you know?
41:40Well, we were talking about teaching earlier, and she is definitely a teacher, you know, but she's also a really talented songwriter, and that's a pretty rare combo.
41:50Well, so, all right, we got to talk about the new record for a minute, and I wanted to ask about a couple songs, and there's one song on there, there's a lot on there that I love, but there's one that was one of the first ones I heard, and it's called Sweet Things Just For You, and I wanted to ask you about the lyrics, specifically.
42:13Absolutely. They're so beautiful, and there's a line in there, I would swim across a thousand seas just to spend a day or night, and you're a good company. I mean, they're really, they're just really pretty, and they just connect in a powerful way. Tell me about kind of where this song came from.
42:34Wow. It's a very old song. It's a song I wrote probably, like, maybe 15 years ago.
42:43Really?
42:44Yeah, and my friend Mary, who has passed, she was my friend of 20 years, and she heard that song, and she said, that's my favorite song you've ever written, and anytime I went to try to record it, it just didn't work out, and so finally.
43:05It just wasn't, it just wasn't coming together.
43:08Right!
43:08Yeah.
43:09But I could play it live, and I played it live at shows, and that's how she heard it, and different fans heard it over the years. So I think it's going to be a treat for the fans who have heard it to actually have a copy of the recording, and then that it's got M-Word and Nora, both friends, on there singing with me and playing it. That just is the whole other level.
43:31And so I think about, you know, what the song meant then, but what the song means now, to me, is different, because songs are living, and they change with you. You cannot have a song that was born 15 years ago and have it mean the same exact thing 15 years later for me.
43:50So for me, when I go places from a cafe to, like, I don't know, I could be in a post office or somebody's little boutique, I'll see something like, they will have put a painting on the wall and placed a chair just right, and just put a, you know, a certain type of ink pen for you to sign with, or these little things that they've done.
44:20And the little things that we do for each other in the world in general, we do so many little things. Strangers do little things to make sure that this world is beautiful and magical when you walk into somewhere.
44:34Who are these little angels? They're us. And so we're responsible for doing these little sweet things. Everyone's job, like, from when I used to clean houses, I wasn't just cleaning the house.
44:47I was putting in prayers and mantras and affirmations and positive energy into the space so that when the person came home, they felt lifted, not just a clean, dusted, you know, tabletop and some dishes put away, but also the spirit of that place was leaving.
45:08And so whether you're taking out trash or dumpsters or, you know, baking food, I ate some of the best food in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania at this place, sign of the book, I was almost in tears at the taste of the cheesecake.
45:23Oh my God. I was like, what did you do? It's so fluffy. And so like, no matter what we do, if you're teaching school, what we can do it in a way that leads sweet things.
45:37Even if it's a hard job, because waiting wasn't always easy physically and stuff, but whatever it is you do ever in the mail, what is our tone? What is our spirit? And, you know, you might not even know the person, but your work matters and the way you do your work matters. And that could be a sweet thing for someone all the way on the other side of the planet, across the seas or right here.
46:03That's a very Southern idea too.
46:06Yes, it is.
46:07Well, I just, I love that song. And it just really, it really jumped out at me and I'm glad it finally came together on this record. One other one I want to ask about, and it's called Joy, Joy. And I feel like this song says a lot about who you are and your outlook on life.
46:34I mean, it's kind of a reminder to find joy, even when things are really hard. Is that fair to say?
46:41It is so true. That's fair to say of me. But it's also like, in talking with the students, very important to note that joy does not mean happiness for me. It doesn't mean that you are just running around with this bubbly smile on your face all the time.
47:00You know, there's a, you know, there's a understanding that you can hold space for joy and pain and trauma and dark, dark things or heavy things.
47:12You don't bypass. You don't just skip over. Joy is something where if we had someone like Nelson Mandela, who is fighting for people's beautiful lives and he's in prison, you can't take his joy.
47:27You can't take his joy. That's something he's going to have when he gets out. It's the spirit. And all we can do, we can give it. And then we feel like, oh, I gave it to the wrong person. And we feel like it was taken. But no, you gave it.
47:42So it's something to be tended and minded and cared for. But it's also not like soft and like a cloud or a cotton ball, like just or a marshmallow. It's fierce. It's fierce in a beautiful way. It's very important to take care of it. Almost like hope, you know.
48:03And it can be something that is a source. When we have challenges or a hard time, it can be something that is like the source to shift the energy and be kind of like a scientist or an alchemist where you take this certain metal and you turn it to gold.
48:22You know, you take this dirt, you know, you take this compost and you turn it to gorgeous flowers. So, but you do realize you have dirt, you have compost. Somebody say some shit, but whatever, you know.
48:37So you realize that you don't like just go out here living without seeing and learning of the hardships and understanding the suffering.
48:49But that's also something that, you know, I've been doing yoga for several years, over 20 years. And it's a practice that is in the yoga practice as well, where you learn to really understand suffering, but not to hold, not to hold on to it and allow it to make you bitter.
49:09And that's what I love about Mavis. She marched along with Dr. King, Carla Thomas. She was in Memphis when Dr. King was assassinated. And it wasn't just the dream that he was there for, you know, he was there fighting for economic equality and not just, you know, for black folks, for all of us.
49:29And that's when he was actually shot, when he was telling the truth about the real things that systemically are affecting, you know, us, black folks, but also they affect white folks too. They affect all of us.
49:42And it really, like, is a thing where I like to imagine that in giving a speech where you're speaking of dreams and you're speaking of the hardships, that he has to understand joy, you know. You have to.
49:59Well, it's something you have to kind of take care of and cultivate. It's kind of like that yard that you were talking about. You have to take care of that yard, you know, because it's yours. But if you don't, if you let it go, then it's not going to, you know, it's not going to look great on its own. You know, you have to kind of nurture it.
50:20Exactly. It needs some, it needs some tender love.
50:23Well, Valerie, what are you most excited about this summer? I know you've got a lot going on. I know you've got a tour coming up. What are you looking forward to the most?
50:35Well, you know, last night being the first performance of the L's of Oracles and Omens, Omens and Oracles, O-O-O-O-O record. I just call it O.
50:50I had a fan, several fans. I've been with you for 12 years. I've been with you one little girl. She came with a picture when she was little and now she's like 15 or so.
51:05And she had that picture when she was little. And I saw her and I just started crying because what I do is not for mainstream necessarily.
51:16If I get there, great. But what I do is the communities that I've touched and the people that I've built, we're growing together.
51:25And it's a longevity. And it's, you know, sometimes I tell folks, I'm almost famous because Lord, it'd be so nice to just get there.
51:35But that movie, that's the reality of my life. It's juggling this, it's juggling that.
51:41Oh, well, we can't have this because we don't have the budget yet or whatever, you know.
51:45So it is still like quite a struggle in some ways. But at the same time, if I know that I'm building that type of community and connecting with my fans on that level, then that's gold.
51:58That's almost like my Hall of Fame.
52:00Well, keep doing what you're doing. And, you know, you've got another great record out.
52:08So congrats on that. It's so great to see. And I hope we can do this again sometime.
52:14I hope so. It's great to see you. Thanks for making time.
52:18Well, thanks so much for being on Biscuits and Jam, Valerie.
52:21All right. Take care.
52:30Bye.
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