- 1 year ago
A US federal court has ruled that President Trump does not have the power to impose reciprocal tariffs, giving the administration 10 days to scrap them.
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00:00But let's turn first to one of our top stories tonight.
00:03A U.S. federal court has ruled late last night
00:06that President Donald Trump does not have the powers
00:09to impose reciprocal tariffs.
00:12The court, in fact, has said that the Trump administration
00:15has now got just 10 days to scrap the tariffs.
00:19Remember, Donald Trump has taken the world
00:21into an unprecedented tariff war,
00:25which is hurting the U.S. economy as well at the moment.
00:28But that's not just that.
00:30Billionaire businessman and Trump aide Elon Musk
00:33has decided to quit the Trump administration
00:35while criticizing Donald Trump's big, beautiful bill
00:39that will cut taxes.
00:42Musk says, in a way, that he's out.
00:45What does this all mean for the one man
00:48who's trying to change the world?
00:51Is the Donald Trump experiment unraveling?
00:54That's going to be our top focus.
00:55First, take a look at this report.
01:00The bromance is ending in a breakup.
01:05The governance partnership between the world's most powerful person
01:08and the world's richest person is over.
01:11Elon Musk is leaving his position
01:13at the Department of Government Efficiency
01:15that was formed to scrap wasteful government spending.
01:20While his appointment to the post was to be short-term,
01:23Musk's exit comes right after he described
01:25President Donald Trump's flagship legislation,
01:29the big, beautiful bill, as disappointing.
01:32In an interview to CBS,
01:35Musk called the big, beautiful bill
01:36a massive spending bill,
01:38which increases the budget deficit
01:40and undermines the work that the Doge team is doing.
01:44Musk said the bill can be big
01:46or it can be beautiful,
01:48but it can't be both.
01:50The big, beautiful bill once passed
01:52will give tax cuts,
01:54provide for border security
01:55and curtail medical benefits.
01:58When asked about Musk's criticism,
02:00Trump avoided a direct reply.
02:02Mr. President, Elon Musk in a television interview
02:05criticized the one big, beautiful bill,
02:09saying he was disappointed
02:10it didn't cut enough, essentially,
02:12that it undercut the Doge efforts.
02:13What's your reaction to that?
02:14Well, my reaction's a lot of things.
02:17Number one, we have to get a lot of votes.
02:19We can't be cutting.
02:21You know, we need to get a lot of support.
02:24We have no Democrats.
02:25You know, if it's up to the Democrats,
02:27they'll take the 65% increase.
02:29You know, if that doesn't get approved,
02:30this country is going to have a 65% increase in taxes.
02:35Trump faced another setback on Wednesday
02:37when the U.S. Court of International Trade
02:40ruled President had no powers
02:42to impose reciprocal tariffs.
02:44Trump had invoked
02:45the International Emergency Economic Powers Act
02:48to impose tariffs,
02:49but the 1977 law
02:51incidentally makes no mention of tariffs.
02:55The IEEPA is a law
02:56that deals with trade embargoes and sanctions.
02:59Defending the tariff war,
03:02Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick
03:03had submitted an affidavit in the court
03:06claiming Trump used tariffs
03:08to broker ceasefire between India and Pakistan.
03:12Lutnick said, and I quote,
03:14India and Pakistan,
03:15two nuclear powers engaged in combat operations
03:18just 13 days ago,
03:20reached a tenuous ceasefire on May 10, 2025.
03:23This ceasefire was only achieved
03:26after President Trump interceded
03:28and offered both nations trading access
03:31with the United States
03:32to avert a full-scale war, unquote.
03:36India has once again rejected claims
03:38of U.S. hand in ceasefire with Pakistan.
03:41From the time
03:44Operation Sindhur commenced
03:46on 7th May
03:48till the understanding
03:50on cessation of firing
03:51and military action
03:53on 10th May,
03:54there were conversations
03:56between
03:56India,
03:59Indian and U.S. leaders
04:00on the evolving military situation.
04:03The issue of trade or tariff
04:04did not come up
04:05in any of those discussions.
04:07Trump's presidency,
04:10which high on action,
04:11has failed to deliver
04:12on many of his promises.
04:15The Russia-Ukraine war
04:16and the Israel war on Gaza
04:18are still raging
04:19despite Trump's many declarations
04:21on impending ceasefires.
04:24At some point,
04:25Trump will start facing
04:26tough questions from his voters.
04:29Bureau Report, India Today.
04:32So let's raise the big questions then
04:34on our talking point.
04:36Are U.S. institutions
04:38finally standing up
04:40to Donald Trump?
04:41Is the great disruptor himself
04:43now getting disrupted?
04:45Is the Trump experiment
04:47unraveling
04:47and what will be
04:48the consequences
04:49for India and the world?
04:52Joining me now,
04:53Jayan Krishna,
04:53Senior Fellow
04:54at the Center for Strategic
04:55and International Studies
04:56in Washington.
04:58He's in Delhi at the moment.
04:59Ambassador Casey Singh,
05:00former Secretary
05:01of Ministry of External Affairs.
05:02Professor Andrew Latham,
05:04Distinguished Scholar
05:04of International Security
05:05and Strategic Studies
05:06at Macalester College.
05:08Joins us.
05:09Appreciate all of you joining us.
05:11Let me come to you
05:11Professor Latham first.
05:13We've seen a pretty dramatic
05:1424 hours,
05:16which is often a long time
05:17when it comes to Donald Trump.
05:19One of his key aides,
05:20the one and only Elon Musk,
05:22has decided to leave
05:23the Trump administration
05:24and his Department of Government
05:25Efficiency.
05:26and you've got the court
05:28now making it very clear
05:30that Trump's administration
05:31cannot impose
05:32these reciprocal tariffs.
05:34What do you make out of it?
05:36Is the Trump experiment
05:37now unraveling
05:39four months into Trump 2.0?
05:42Well, it seems very much to be.
05:44Trump 2.0
05:46really tried to push things
05:48very, very, very quickly
05:49and circumvented
05:52both the American Constitution
05:54and various laws
05:55in the process.
05:57And now we're seeing
05:58the pushback
05:59from the courts,
06:00the district courts,
06:01not quite yet
06:01the Supreme Court,
06:02but also Elon Musk
06:05leaving his government job
06:07with the,
06:10I always pronounce it doge,
06:12but it's doge,
06:13the Department of Government Efficiency.
06:17And so, yeah,
06:18I think we're seeing
06:19the wheels come off
06:21to some extent.
06:23It speaks to a deeper reality,
06:26which is Trump 1.0,
06:28there were lots of guardrails
06:30because there were
06:31lots of professionals
06:32in that administration
06:34that contained and constrained
06:36and constricted Donald Trump.
06:38And the second administration
06:40since 2024,
06:42those figures aren't there.
06:44There are a bunch of
06:46basically sycophants.
06:48And so there are no guardrails
06:50except for the constitutional
06:51and legal guardrails,
06:53which are now beginning
06:54to kick in.
06:57So you're not surprised.
06:58What you're telling us
06:59that the likes of Elon Musk
07:01quitting Trump in any case,
07:03Musk himself was seen
07:04as a bit of a gadfly,
07:05not a practicing politician.
07:08You're saying the rails
07:09are coming off
07:10because of the kind of people
07:11he's chosen.
07:13I think that's right, yes.
07:15There are no internal restraints
07:18in the way there were
07:19in Trump 1.0.
07:21There are no people telling him,
07:23sorry, sir, you're wrong.
07:25Sorry, sir, you can't do this.
07:27You can't do that.
07:28You can't do the other thing.
07:29There are no people
07:29telling him that.
07:30All there are are people
07:31telling him, yes, sir, no, sir,
07:33three bags full, sir.
07:35And so beyond the administration,
07:39then there are institutional,
07:42I like the term guardrails,
07:43that are kicking in now
07:44in a way that wasn't necessary
07:48during the first Trump administration,
07:50but are very much necessary now.
07:52I think his project is being,
07:56to mix metaphors,
07:58completely derailed.
08:00I don't think he's going to accomplish
08:02even a small percentage
08:04of what he thinks
08:06he might have accomplished
08:07because of the ineptitude
08:10of the people around him.
08:11Jain Krishna,
08:15do you go along with that,
08:16both the court order on tariffs,
08:18the fact that Harvard University
08:20has decided to fight back,
08:22the fact that now
08:22the likes of Elon Musk
08:24solely deserting Donald Trump is,
08:26do you agree with Professor Latham,
08:28the experiment,
08:29Trump experiment,
08:30is unraveling even faster
08:31than one might have imagined?
08:32Yeah, Rajdeep, to a large extent.
08:36You know, I mean,
08:36what Trump essentially tried to do,
08:38he wanted to change the world order
08:40with an unprecedented speed,
08:42you know,
08:43shrink the US government,
08:45downsize it,
08:46you know,
08:47and then reorient the global economy.
08:49You know, multiple things,
08:50if you look at
08:50from the day he assumed power,
08:52or even before that,
08:53what he started doing,
08:54disempowering USAID completely,
08:57unwinding the climate change,
08:58you know,
08:59mechanism which was in place,
09:01the Paris Accord he walked out of,
09:03the diversity,
09:04equity,
09:05inclusion policies
09:05have been changed all across.
09:08So I think on the tariff issue,
09:09if you look at
09:10from April 2,
09:11when the Liberation Day tariff
09:14of 10% base tariff
09:15and higher tariff
09:16for countries
09:17with the,
09:18which US had the trade deficit
09:19when it was announced,
09:21you know,
09:21there has been a lot of flip-flop
09:22on the policy.
09:23You know,
09:23I mean,
09:23if you look at
09:24the tariff for post
09:25and not,
09:26not just like that,
09:27not because of any wise counsel,
09:29but because the US
09:30financial markets,
09:31you know,
09:32went down,
09:33you know,
09:33then temporarily
09:34it reduced the tariff on China,
09:36which is largely
09:37for most of the product categories
09:38about 30%.
09:40And now with,
09:41you know,
09:41this,
09:41the court,
09:43the Manhattan-based
09:44Court of International Trade,
09:45you know,
09:46having come up with this judgment,
09:48you know,
09:49that US Congress
09:50has the authority
09:51to,
09:51you know,
09:53fiddle with the parameters
09:54and the policy changes
09:55in international trade
09:56and not the president.
09:58And the president
09:58only has some emergency powers,
10:00which is not the case.
10:01So I think 10 days
10:03they have given
10:04to the US administration,
10:06but in all probability,
10:07they'll go to higher courts.
10:08And even on Howard,
10:11I think,
10:12you know,
10:13Howard has got its ranking,
10:15you know,
10:16its position,
10:17you know,
10:17as a higher education institution,
10:20not just like that.
10:21I mean,
10:21they're one of the highest ranked universities.
10:23If you go by QS ranking
10:24or Times ranking,
10:25because of the academic freedom,
10:27you know,
10:27they were given all the time,
10:29you know.
10:29So I think a lot of things
10:31Trump has questioned there,
10:32you know,
10:33they've said today,
10:34in fact,
10:34today he said,
10:35yesterday perhaps he said that
10:36the total cap on foreign students,
10:38you know,
10:38from the current 30%,
10:4031%,
10:41which Howard say
10:42that is actually 27%,
10:43should go down to 15%,
10:45he has said.
10:45About $2.2 billion of,
10:47you know,
10:48funds,
10:49federal funds have been frozen.
10:50So I think,
10:51you know,
10:52I think change in governance
10:53is also what he's trying to do.
10:55So I think,
10:56as he says,
10:57schools will do
10:58a far better job.
10:59So I think,
11:00you know,
11:00this is a classic case
11:01of a lot of policy flip-flops,
11:02which is happening.
11:04And,
11:04you know,
11:05if the current trends
11:06are in education,
11:06I don't think he will go
11:08far in his proposals.
11:12You know,
11:12I want to come to you,
11:13KC Singh.
11:14Let's for a moment also look at
11:15where Trump is standing
11:16on the diplomatic front.
11:18He wants to be
11:19in the center of everything.
11:21But what we are seeing is
11:22Vladimir Putin
11:23doesn't seem to be listening
11:24to Donald Trump.
11:25And Donald Trump
11:25is now shouting irately
11:27even at Vladimir Putin.
11:29We've already seen
11:30his run-in with Zelensky.
11:32He hasn't made much headway
11:33in the Middle East as well.
11:35Netanyahu is continuing
11:36to bomb Gaza.
11:38You've got a leader
11:39who deals
11:40with the same Syrian leadership
11:42that he said
11:42and was seen
11:44to be part of Al-Qaeda.
11:46He's striking business deals
11:48with the Saudis,
11:49with the Qataris,
11:50who he called
11:51sponsors of terror.
11:52On India and Pakistan,
11:54he's claiming credit
11:55for the ceasefire
11:56with absolutely
11:57no evidence of the same.
11:58Is Donald Trump
11:59now getting slowly
12:01but surely exposed
12:02even diplomatically?
12:06Rajdeep,
12:06I think I'll be
12:07a little careful
12:08because he is
12:09not going to stop.
12:11His disruption
12:12is not going to end.
12:14He still feels
12:15the Supreme Court
12:16is with him.
12:17It has a 6-3
12:17conservative majority.
12:19He will go up to that.
12:21also remember
12:23that some of the tariffs
12:24like on irons,
12:26aluminium and cars
12:27are not under this act.
12:29Under this act,
12:30he was only using tariffs.
12:31This is the 79 Act
12:33which he was using
12:34kind of economic emergency
12:36which is used really
12:38for entirely different reasons
12:41when you're boycotting
12:42a country,
12:43when you're imposing sanctions
12:45and so on and so forth.
12:46So this,
12:47he will go to the next court
12:48but he will try shifting
12:50some of these tariffs
12:51to existing laws.
12:53He's got other instruments.
12:55He can start
12:55investigations.
12:58He can start proceedings.
12:59So he so far has shown
13:02that he is completely committed
13:04to his disruptive behavior
13:06and he's not about to mend
13:09or to learn anything from it
13:11because until the U.S. Congress,
13:13the Republicans in the U.S. Congress
13:15push back
13:16and we've not seen that
13:17they pass the budget
13:18in the Senate
13:19even though
13:20with a one-seat majority
13:22in the Congress
13:23and now it's with the Senate.
13:26One of the things
13:27that we don't must...
13:28But even diplomatically,
13:29Casey Singh,
13:29Casey Singh even diplomatically
13:31all the moves
13:33that Donald Trump
13:34made in the four months,
13:35he claimed,
13:35I'm going to sort out
13:36Ukraine, Russia,
13:37I'm going to sort out
13:38what's happening
13:38in the Middle East.
13:40He hasn't succeeded.
13:41All I'm saying
13:42is at the moment
13:43Trump seems to,
13:45his bark seems to be
13:46worse than his bite.
13:48He's not on...
13:49Forget tariffs with China now,
13:51he's looking to strike
13:52a trade deal.
13:53Donald Trump seems
13:54to be caught out.
13:55You don't agree with that?
13:57No, because Trump,
13:58I don't think Trump
13:59realizes this.
14:00Trump is just known
14:01for a fact-free
14:02sort of narrative
14:05and he will change
14:06his narrative
14:07if he finds...
14:08Nobody took his thing
14:09seriously when he said
14:10he'll solve the Ukraine
14:11thing in 24 hours.
14:13Even when he's fighting
14:13with Putin,
14:14he's not about to start
14:15supplying weapons
14:16to Ukraine.
14:18He's not strengthening them.
14:20That's the only way
14:20to take on Putin.
14:22So, when he intervenes,
14:23he intervenes only
14:24and the Economist magazine
14:25put it very well.
14:26He says he wants to intervene
14:28but then he stops halfway,
14:29never takes it seriously
14:31and he will move on
14:32to the next subject.
14:34And that is the problem
14:35when dealing with him.
14:36So, do we take it seriously?
14:39So, do we take it seriously,
14:41K.C. Singh,
14:41for example,
14:42when his Commerce Secretary
14:43in an official statement
14:44before a U.S. court
14:46claims that trade
14:47was the reason
14:48India and Pakistan
14:49agreed to a ceasefire,
14:50is this Donald Trump
14:51lying to a U.S. court
14:53on record?
14:54Is he a liar?
14:56Donald Trump
14:57lives in alternative reality.
14:59I don't think
15:00he considers that lying.
15:02Well, it is true.
15:03It may be possible
15:04that Marco Rubio,
15:06when he spoke,
15:07he mentioned the trade thing.
15:09But it doesn't mean
15:10that that is what
15:10motivated India
15:11or that's what
15:12motivated Pakistan
15:13to finally have
15:15their DGMO call us.
15:16But what their perception is
15:18may be different
15:18from our perception.
15:19They may not be lying.
15:20It's just a misperception.
15:22But they would have raised it.
15:24But look at it this way.
15:25His tariffs he uses continuously.
15:27He thinks
15:28it's like a stick in his hand.
15:30With Canada,
15:31he uses tariffs
15:31because you're sending fentanyl.
15:33You're lying.
15:34Immigration.
15:34When there is no,
15:35not much fentanyl
15:36coming from Canada
15:37against Mexico,
15:39he uses it again.
15:40Illegal immigration
15:41fentanyl.
15:42But it's not,
15:43you know,
15:44but Casey is saying,
15:45sorry,
15:45you know,
15:46let's be clear.
15:47Let's cut the change.
15:48It's not working.
15:49It's not working.
15:50The Canadians have chosen
15:51someone who stood up to Trump.
15:53The Australians are choosing
15:55a leader who's standing up to Trump.
15:56The world is not listening
15:57to Donald Trump.
15:58That's the point.
15:59A quick answer to that.
16:00Do you agree
16:01that Donald Trump
16:02is rapidly running out
16:04of the equity
16:05he seemed to have
16:06when he started off?
16:07The world is no longer
16:08scared of Donald Trump,
16:09the bully.
16:10No,
16:10that's what I'm telling you,
16:11that until the US Congress
16:13and the Republicans
16:14wake up,
16:16it's not,
16:17Trump is not going
16:18to be controlled.
16:19He doesn't care
16:19what the world thinks.
16:20He will just,
16:21you know,
16:22reimagine it
16:22and come out
16:23with a new interpretation
16:24of that
16:24until his party
16:26wakes up
16:26and that will not happen
16:28until they're closer
16:29to the midterms,
16:30which is November
16:31of next year.
16:34Okay,
16:34let me just play out.
16:36Donald Trump
16:36was asked questions
16:37by journalists
16:38and you could see
16:39that Donald Trump
16:40is clearly losing patience
16:42also with journalists.
16:43He's had a testy relationship,
16:45tough relationship
16:46with journalists.
16:47Listen in to what
16:48the question
16:49that was posed
16:49to Donald Trump yesterday,
16:50how he's responded.
16:51Mr. President,
16:54Wall Street analysts
16:55have coined a new term
16:56called the taco trade.
16:57They're saying
16:57Trump always chickens out
16:59on your tariff threats
17:00and that's why markets
17:01are higher this week.
17:02What's your response to that?
17:04Six months ago,
17:04this country was stone cold dead.
17:07We had a dead country.
17:09We had a country
17:09people didn't think
17:10it was going to survive
17:11and you ask a nasty question
17:12like that.
17:14It's called negotiation.
17:16You set a number
17:16and if you go down,
17:18you know,
17:18if I set a number
17:19at a ridiculous high number
17:20and I go down
17:21a little bit,
17:22you know,
17:22a little bit,
17:24they want me to hold
17:24that number,
17:25145% tariff.
17:28Even I said,
17:29man,
17:29that really got up.
17:30You know how it got?
17:31Because of fentanyl
17:32and many other things
17:33and you added it up.
17:35I said,
17:35where are we now?
17:36We're at 145%.
17:38I said,
17:38whoa,
17:39that's high.
17:40But don't ever say
17:41what you said.
17:42That's a nasty question.
17:43I can promise you
17:44and I have great respect
17:45for the people
17:46at the European Union.
17:47They wouldn't be over here
17:49today negotiating
17:50if I didn't put
17:52a 50% tariff on.
17:54The sad thing is
17:55now when I make a deal
17:56with them,
17:56it's something
17:57much more reasonable.
17:58They'll say,
17:59oh,
17:59he was chicken.
18:00He was chicken.
18:02That's so unbelievable.
18:04Professor Latham,
18:05we are seeing,
18:06therefore,
18:06Donald Trump
18:07getting increasingly
18:08impatient,
18:09it appears,
18:10particularly
18:11with his adversaries.
18:12Do you believe
18:13that a time
18:14will come,
18:15as Casey Singh suggests,
18:16where even his own
18:16Republican Party
18:17will say enough is enough?
18:19Yes,
18:19Donald Trump
18:20has got the presidency,
18:22but even his own party
18:23may find that he,
18:24sooner or later,
18:26becomes a bit
18:26of a liability.
18:28His coalition
18:29is unstable
18:31and has always been.
18:33His immediate circle
18:34of advisors
18:35are totally
18:36on Team Trump.
18:37There's no way
18:38around that.
18:39But the broader
18:40coalition that he
18:41sort of tries to
18:42represent
18:43and advance
18:45the interests of
18:46is really very unstable.
18:49When you talk
18:50about tariffs,
18:51for example,
18:52when you impose tariffs,
18:54you hurt
18:55the American
18:55working class.
18:58And at some point,
18:59the American
18:59working class
19:00is going to say
19:00enough is enough.
19:02When it comes
19:03to international relations,
19:05there's an entire
19:06constituency
19:06that still sees
19:08the United States
19:08as the global hegemon,
19:10the leader of the world
19:11and whatnot.
19:11And is not in favor
19:13of the United States
19:15disengaging from Europe,
19:16which is what Donald Trump
19:18is talking about.
19:19Which is not in favor
19:20of the United States
19:21disengaging from
19:23the Persian Gulf
19:24and the Middle East.
19:26And so he's going to lose
19:27those constituencies
19:28if he continues
19:29to pursue those policies,
19:30which I think he will.
19:32There's a deeper rationale.
19:34I mean, it makes sense
19:35to pivot,
19:36as Barack Obama put it,
19:38but now,
19:39as President Trump
19:40is actually doing,
19:42pivot to the Indo-Pacific,
19:43which is why
19:44I think there's going
19:45to be a very good relationship
19:46between the United States
19:48and India,
19:48for example,
19:49because what better ally
19:51could the United States
19:52possibly have
19:53in the Indo-Pacific
19:54than India?
19:55But that's still going
19:56to alienate
19:57and irritate
19:58a lot of people
19:59who think that
20:01the U.S.
20:01should really be engaged
20:03in the Persian Gulf
20:04and the Middle East,
20:05should really be supporting
20:07Ukraine
20:07in their war
20:08against Russia.
20:11I can see
20:12the coalition
20:13fracturing
20:14and fragmenting
20:15within the next
20:16couple of months,
20:17frankly.
20:19Do you believe,
20:20though,
20:20Jayankrishna,
20:21you agree with
20:22Professor Latham
20:22that actually India
20:23is one of the few
20:24countries
20:25with whom
20:25Mr. Trump
20:26may have
20:27a more
20:27relationship
20:30that may endure
20:31given the fact
20:32that the trade talks
20:33appear on track
20:34for now,
20:35that India may
20:36in a strange way
20:37benefit
20:37from Donald Trump's
20:41politics and policies?
20:44So, yes,
20:45Rajdeep,
20:45for two reasons.
20:46One is for
20:47geopolitical reasons.
20:48Our place
20:49in the world map
20:50makes India
20:52too important
20:52for the country
20:53for Trump
20:54to ignore.
20:55And in this region,
20:56India is very,
20:57very critical
20:58a nation.
20:59And secondly,
20:59once he has
21:01picked up a war,
21:02a trade war
21:03with China,
21:03somewhere he
21:05has to have
21:06allies
21:06with whom
21:08he has a better
21:09relationship
21:10and better trade
21:10relations.
21:11And even
21:12manufacturing,
21:13not all the
21:13manufacturing that
21:14he wants to
21:14move out of
21:15China and go
21:16to the US
21:16would actually
21:17do,
21:17but would
21:18actually happen,
21:19be it Apple
21:20or any other
21:21product.
21:21But I think
21:22India still
21:23is a better
21:25bet for Donald
21:26Trump than
21:27China,
21:28because India
21:29is one-sixth
21:31the size of
21:31our economy,
21:32is very,
21:33very small
21:33with both
21:34the US and
21:35China.
21:36And, you know,
21:36little,
21:37but so far
21:38in his
21:38Trump 2.0
21:40innings,
21:40he has not
21:41shown any
21:41signs of
21:42being soft
21:43to India
21:44on tariff
21:45issues,
21:45which would
21:47happen eventually
21:47as he's
21:49cornered from
21:50multiple fronts,
21:51the US
21:51codes,
21:52the academia,
21:53you know,
21:53countries around
21:54the world.
21:55I think in,
21:56you know,
21:57so far that
21:58may not have
21:58become very
21:59evident.
22:00I'm running
22:01out of time,
22:01Jayan.
22:02I'm sorry.
22:03I'm sorry to
22:04stop you.
22:04I'm running
22:04out of time.
22:05I just want to
22:05give Casey
22:06a final word
22:06on that,
22:07a short
22:07final word.
22:08Do you
22:08believe that
22:09the Trump-Modi
22:10relationship will
22:12endure beyond
22:13this current
22:13instability?
22:14Trump is
22:15using every
22:15opportunity to
22:16take credit
22:17for the
22:17ceasefire and
22:18indirectly thereby
22:19even embarrassing
22:20in a way the
22:21Indian leadership.
22:22But do you
22:22believe that
22:22this relationship
22:23will endure even
22:24in these unstable
22:25times that now
22:26confront Donald
22:27Trump?
22:28I think his
22:29ideological orientation,
22:31making America
22:32great again,
22:33his focus on
22:34America,
22:34America first,
22:36personal relationships
22:37are not coming
22:38into it.
22:39And we should
22:40not overestimate
22:41the role of
22:42personal relationships.
22:44And that is why
22:44we've not
22:45seen,
22:46that's why
22:47even Apple,
22:49he told them,
22:49you have no
22:50business to be
22:50manufacturing in
22:51India.
22:52Now what kind
22:52of a friendly
22:53leader will
22:54say a thing
22:55like that when
22:55that's not
22:56even possible?
22:57Because Apple
22:58can't move
22:59everything to
23:00America.
23:00Each phone
23:01will cost
23:01$4,000 if
23:02you make it
23:03in America.
23:03But he is
23:04stuck in a
23:05certain mold.
23:06He wants to
23:07re-industrialize
23:07America.
23:08He thinks
23:08tariffs are the
23:09weapon.
23:10He thinks
23:10people,
23:11companies will be
23:12forced to come
23:13to America.
23:14And that
23:14being his
23:15primary focus,
23:16at some
23:16stage he
23:17would cut
23:17a deal
23:17with China.
23:19I don't
23:19think India
23:20should continue
23:20to hope that
23:21geopolitically he
23:23will weigh in
23:24India's favor.
23:25I will be
23:25cautious dealing
23:26with Trump
23:27because you
23:27don't know
23:28what's driving
23:28him.
23:29We know
23:29what's driving
23:30him.
23:30But you
23:30don't know
23:31how he will
23:31balance it
23:32when it comes
23:32to dealing
23:33with India
23:33vis-a-vis
23:34China,
23:35vis-a-vis
23:35other countries,
23:36vis-a-vis
23:37his larger
23:37motives.
23:38Let's
23:40leave it
23:41there.
23:41With
23:42Donald Trump
23:42you never
23:42know what
23:43tomorrow
23:43brings.
23:44But clearly
23:44the last
23:4424 hours
23:45have shown
23:46that Donald
23:47Trump is
23:48being pushed
23:49back.
23:50The courts
23:50are pushing
23:51back.
23:52Some of
23:52his own
23:52closest allies
23:54are realizing
23:55that it's
23:56not quite
23:56working out.
23:57And Donald
23:58Trump may
23:59have to
24:00well course
24:00correct.
24:01But is he
24:01capable of
24:02course correcting
24:02or is he
24:03going to go
24:04on in his
24:05own unique
24:06style?
24:06We'll wait
24:06and see
24:07how that
24:08plays out.
24:08But I
24:08appreciate my
24:09guests joining
24:10me here on
24:11my top
24:11talking point.
24:12Thank you
24:12very much.