In its latest attack on higher education institutions, the Trump administration has stayed Harvard University's ability to enroll international students, who make up about 30% of its student body. DW interviewed Ryan D. Enos, a professor at Harvard.
00:00Professor, thanks for making time for Deutsche Welle.
00:03Thank you. I'm pleased to be here.
00:05So what would it mean if Harvard would use the international student body?
00:11It would be a tremendous loss for Harvard.
00:14The international students are almost a third of our student body
00:18and they are some of the brightest and most talented students we have here.
00:21They are valued members of our community.
00:24I think more importantly in some ways it would be a tremendous loss not just for Harvard
00:28but for the United States because we are so fortunate that we get these students from all over the world.
00:34Some of the most talented students in the world that come here to study
00:37and to contribute to our society and to our economy.
00:40And if they leave, if we lose them, then we lose that advantage for the United States.
00:45How is this topic discussed in your professor body, if I can say so?
00:50Professors are extremely worried about this.
00:54We are terrified about it in many ways because these students, they are not only our students,
01:00but they are our colleagues.
01:01They are people that contribute to our research, to our knowledge,
01:04and we would be losing members of our community.
01:07It is something we have never faced before and it terrifies us.
01:10As for now, a judge stopped the ban.
01:13Would you say there is already some damage done?
01:16Oh, of course.
01:17I mean, if I were an international student, and I think we see evidence for this now,
01:21if I were an international student, I would think twice about coming to study in the United States.
01:26There would just be uncertainty.
01:27There would be this potential that you could have your right to be here,
01:31even though you studied your whole life and did all the things you were supposed to do,
01:35that you could have that suddenly taken away from you.
01:37And I think future students will think twice about coming and studying here.
01:41And that is a tremendous loss for Harvard.
01:44It is a tremendous loss for the United States.
01:46Why is Donald Trump, President Trump, focusing on Harvard so much?
01:50What do you think?
01:51I think that Trump is focusing on Harvard because he is trying to send a message to higher education more largely.
01:58And the reason he is doing that is that Trump operates as an authoritarian.
02:03And authoritarians attack universities.
02:05This is what they do.
02:06They have done it.
02:07Authoritarians in other countries have done it.
02:09And Donald Trump is trying to attack universities because universities are centers of dissent.
02:14What can you, as professors, what can the academia in Harvard do to fight his ideas?
02:20Well, I think the most important thing we can do is to try to make the case to public opinion that,
02:26to the American public more largely, that this is something that needs to be resisted.
02:31Because, as I mentioned, Donald Trump is acting as an authoritarian.
02:35And when people do that, when leaders do that, it's really the public that is able to push back on them.
02:41And we need to convince the American public that Harvard, even though many of them don't care about Harvard,
02:46that Harvard is some place they need to think and care about and try to defend.
02:52Because they're ultimately not defending Harvard, but defending civil society more largely.
02:57We have a really hard time getting students who might be affected by this law immediately or directly.
03:04A very hard time to have them talk with us.
03:07Can you understand that?
03:09I can.
03:10And I think it's worth reflecting on just how sad of a situation that is.
03:15Because this is the United States.
03:16The place where, supposedly, freedom of speech is something that's ingrained into our Constitution
03:22and our system of government and system of laws here.
03:25And the reason these students don't want to talk to you is they're afraid of retribution by the United States government.
03:31And that is something that is antithetical to American values, that students are afraid of punishment by their own government.
03:37And I understand why they feel that way.
03:39And it's something that is a sad statement on what's going on in the United States right now.
03:44The commencement is just about to happen.
03:47How do you look forward?
03:49What do you think?
03:50Where will Harvard be next year, this time?
03:52Well, look, you know, the commencement that happens next week is always a time when Harvard comes together as a community.
03:59It's a big, diverse place.
04:00And we come from all over the world.
04:02And we bring a lot of different perspectives and a lot of different ideas.
04:04And yet we all come together for that celebration right at that time.
04:08And I hope at that time that sometime we can think about the fact that we are here to support our international students
04:15and to say they're part of this community.
04:17And we're going to stand up and say no to what the Trump administration is doing.
04:21And unfortunately, you know, we're only a few months into the Trump administration.
04:25And we have a lot of years of this left ahead of us.
04:27And we're going to have to keep reminding ourselves that we need to stand up and push back in order to defend people like our international students.
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