00:00Controversial. Can you unpack what you mean? Why are trans-identified children more likely to come
00:05from white or more privileged groups? Yes, well, I was asked by the journalist
00:09if we have any trans children at Michaela, and I said no, and he said, well, why do you think
00:13that's the case? And I think, well, the vast majority of them are ethnic minority, and I do
00:19think that will have impact. Now, obviously, I'm not talking about adults. There are trans men and
00:24women who are adults, and I imagine there are just as many in all the different races, just as
00:28there are same-sex attracted people in all the different races, and I imagine there would be
00:32no reason why there'd be more in one group than the other. But we are talking about children who
00:37are different, and the reason why with children it's different is that there's lots of children
00:43who get caught up in fads. And while, of course, there will be some genuinely trans children out
00:50there, when I'm saying trans to the journalist, I'm putting quotation marks, but of course you
00:55don't see that in the writing when it ends up in the newspaper. There are lots of children who end
01:00up caught up in fads, as we've seen some who think that they are dogs or they think that they're snow
01:06leopards. I've got a little year seven boy at the moment who thinks he's a detective and goes on the
01:11train and encounters the police and does all sorts of, you know, because he thinks he's a detective.
01:17Now, the fact is that children do these sorts of things, and they can get caught up because
01:22they're socially pressured into doing so, or the media encourages them, they're online,
01:28they see certain discussions, and they get, they get, they're vulnerable to that sort of thing.
01:33Now, then we need to ask ourselves, which children are most vulnerable to the idea of transitioning?
01:41And children who I don't think in the end will ever properly transition. Now, what I mean is
01:47actually become of the other gender. They just, in their school days, will be in that moment of
01:53transitioning. And the children who I think are most vulnerable to these are the children who don't
01:58necessarily have a claim to victimhood. So anecdotally, I just know that there are a lot
02:07more children who are transitioning, and I do it with my quotation marks again, in private schools,
02:13white children who are more privileged in our comprehensives. And this is because I would put
02:23this down to them feeling that they need something to be kind of valued in terms of a victim. And I do
02:33feel we have a society nowadays where we very much admire victimhood. People can climb that social ladder
02:42when they are the bigger victim. And so this enables those children who are feeling under pressure,
02:48because they're a bit too posh, they're a bit too white, they're a bit too male, that they then say,
02:54oh, you know, well, actually, I'm not really, let me transition. But then by the time they're 20 years
03:00old, that will no longer be the case. So that is what I meant.
03:04Catherine, there is another group that does seem to be particularly likely to be caught up in this,
03:09and that is children in care. So in the CAS review, in the CAS report, Hilary Cass pointed out that
03:16children who are adopted or brought up in care are about eight times as likely to be referred to
03:21the gender clinics at Tavistock, which is now closed. Why do you think that might be?
03:27Well, I mean, those children are crying out for support and for attention in a million different ways.
03:34So I imagine that it won't just be that they are thinking about transitioning, they will be
03:41they'll be appearing on the stats for all kinds of issues. So, you know, that's a different issue
03:48that I'm talking about the children who I think will be wanting to be seen as victims.
03:52You're talking about children who are really in genuine need of support.
03:58Do tend to be a pleasure.
03:59Yeah.
03:59You're thinking about your own, always feeling good for you again.
04:03What are you doing and what you think then are the players who are really looking for for
04:05children to be experienced in the community?
04:06Regardless of what they're gripping in their world, they will be in genuine care for you?
04:06They'll be counted by Mohamedا why they've possibly felt and, in any way they may be
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