- 1 year ago
Pakistan's Army Chief General Asim Munir has elevated himself to the rank of Field Marshal, becoming only the second in the country's history after Ayub Khan.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome, you're with the news today, your primetime destination
00:05news, newsmakers, talking points, news without the noise, we'll bring you all the big stories
00:10of the day.
00:11Our top story, Pakistan's army chief has elevated himself to field marshal.
00:17We will decode General Asim Muneer.
00:20Also gloves are off in the political war over off Sindhu is the political consensus breaking
00:27down.
00:28And also Bangalore, Bengaluru sinking again.
00:32Congress celebrating a second anniversary, but who will solve Bangalore's flooding issues?
00:39But as always, first, it's time for the nine headlines.
00:44Just days after Operation Sindhu, Pakistani Army Chief General Asim Muneer elevates himself
00:50to field marshal rank, second field marshal in Pakistan's history.
00:58Ahead of their global diplomatic outreach, MPs are briefed by Ministry of External Affairs,
01:05Pakistan's role in sponsoring terror to be the focus.
01:10BJP and Congress face off escalates, BJP accuses Rahul Gandhi of throwing a Pakistan line.
01:18Congress hits back with the caricature of Modi and Shankar, Kharge says India in small
01:23time war against Pakistan.
01:29India dismantles Pakistan's spy ring, influencer Jyoti's chats with Pakistan High Commissioner
01:37staffer accessed, accused Jyoti was tasked with gathering details on India's sensitive
01:42geography points, but no proof yet that she was paid off by the Pakistanis.
01:50After two days in police remand, Ashoka University Professor Ali Khan Mehmood Abad sent to judicial
01:55custody.
01:56Professor was arrested over a Facebook post about Operation Sindhu.
02:00Government sources say India's water treaty set to be renegotiated, not to be considered
02:06on old terms, treaty likely to be reworked according to the needs and realities of current
02:11times.
02:12Three rain related deaths in Bengaluru, 12-year-old boy, 63-year-old man electrocuted in waterlogged
02:20city.
02:21Chief Minister Sitaram Maya reviews the situation, to review the situation tomorrow.
02:25Today, the Congress celebrates two years anniversary, Chagan Bujbal back again as a Maharashtra
02:35minister replaces Dhananjay Munde, Patnavish Shinde and Ajit Pawar attend the oath ceremony
02:41of a minister, once labelled as corrupt by the BJP.
02:49Pioneering figure in Indian science and noted astrophysicist Jain Nalinkar passed away at
02:5487.
02:55He had worked on gravity, quantum cosmology and action at a distance physics.
03:06But the big story this evening, Pakistan has promoted General Asim Munir as a field marshal,
03:16the highest rank in Pakistan's armed forces.
03:19Chief of Army Staff General Munir becomes the second field marshal in the country's
03:23history after Ayub Khan, who entitled himself for this slot between 1959 and 67, eventually
03:29taking over that country.
03:31So Asim Munir just days after Operation Sindoor has gone ahead and elevated himself to the
03:38rank of field marshal.
03:40That big story is breaking from across the border.
03:44What does it mean?
03:45What does General Munir's politics mean?
03:47And how is General Munir to be perceived?
03:50Remember, just a couple of weeks ago, ahead of Operation Sindoor, India Today magazine
03:55had done a cover story calling General Munir the jihadi general.
04:00It is in that context that my first guest who's joining me is Raj Chengappa, Group
04:05Editorial Director, publishing at India Today.
04:08Raj, it was the magazine that did a cover calling General Munir the jihadi general.
04:13I'll show a picture of that cover in a moment.
04:16But explain what you mean when you say that Asim Munir is a jihadi general and what does
04:22his elevation according to you mean?
04:25Let's start with the fact that he's been elevated.
04:28And that's I think a big signal across that Pakistan is sending within the country and
04:33outside as well.
04:34One, of course, given the kind of fog of war that happened and the fact that India decisively
04:40made many strikes that put Pakistan on the back foot, that had to be wiped off.
04:44And by elevating General Munir to field marshal status, the Pakistan government there is forced
04:51to claim victory in some senses.
04:53And this is an indication of him being made field marshal.
04:56He was already the security czar.
04:58He had gone much beyond his purview in terms of the fact that he not only got himself an
05:04extension for two years pretty easily, I mean, the first time even before his tenure was
05:10to finish this November, he got that extension, he can go up for another five years.
05:14He has also controlled the levers of the economic side and apart from the army.
05:18So he's probably one of the most powerful field marshals that you have, you know, reminiscent
05:24of Ayub Khan.
05:25He hasn't taken over power formally.
05:27He doesn't think he needs to, because he's supreme.
05:30And what this particular operation Sindhur and the Sixth Indo-Pak War has done is the
05:37fact that what it's done is it has in many senses changed the way, you know, the India-Pakistan
05:50matrix is working.
05:51And if you look at the fact, take a look at from the Pakistan side, what has General
05:56Munir done?
05:57He's got into a war with India.
05:59In that, he makes sure that the country is dependent on him now.
06:03Pakistan is completely dependent on him.
06:05Second, if you take a look at the fact that he internationalizes Kashmir in some senses
06:12in the way both Donald Trump, US President, talks about it and Marco Rubio in terms of
06:16having talks on this one.
06:18And the third thing was that though he had emerged as one of the most powerful generals
06:23or army chiefs that they had, there was a popular discontent against General Asim Munir
06:28because of the fact of the economy not working well and that Imran Khan was extremely popular.
06:33By this particular war that has happened is he has virtually become the defender of the
06:38country, and his popularity has probably risen.
06:42But I will give you a caveat, Rajdeep.
06:44The fact was that we did, as you had mentioned, there was Ayub Khan.
06:49After the 1965 war with India, which he wanted to decisively win, but Lal Bahadur Shastri
06:55with his, you know, tremendous sort of force that he brought in in terms of pushing into
07:01Pakistan and surprised the general at that time, made sure that the war had to end, not
07:07on stale, but certainly not on the way that Ayub Khan, and within two years of that, he
07:11has to go.
07:12So he, despite the fact that he now emerges as the most powerful individual in Pakistan,
07:18there is a warning.
07:19He has overreached himself in dealing with India.
07:22And I think sooner or later, you will see that decline happening.
07:26At the moment, though, that decline hasn't happened.
07:28At the moment, though, he hasn't become an Ayub Khan and actually taken over his country.
07:33So he's actually projecting the civilian leadership of Shahbaz Sharif, but running the show from
07:39the back.
07:40Geeta Mohan, how is India viewing this at the moment?
07:43General Asim Munir taking over.
07:45In the past, we've seen India making it very clear that dealing with the civilian leadership
07:49is no longer of any point in Pakistan because it's the military that calls the shots.
07:54But you're not going to deal with General Asim Munir, particularly not after what's
07:57happened in the last few weeks.
07:59How is India, the MEA, seeing the rise of Asim Munir now as the field marshal of Pakistan?
08:05Well, India, Rajdeep, has been very closely monitoring the developments in Pakistan.
08:11And yes, post-Pahalgam terror attack there has been a sense of how the Pakistani military
08:18establishment and, like Raj Chingappa was just saying, General Asim Munir has been trying
08:24to consolidate power, and he has managed to do that.
08:28But India's position has been very clear in the past.
08:30It had been that they're only going to deal with the civilian dispensation and not the
08:34military, even though India is very well aware of the fact, Rajdeep, that it is the
08:40military that controls Pakistan.
08:42Having said that, now they have shifted and they have upped the ante.
08:46They're saying that they're not just not going to engage the military, they're not even going
08:51to engage the civilian dispensation, that any conversation that has to take place between
08:55India and Pakistan, it is going to be at the DGMO level.
08:59But this, this information and this news just ahead of all-party delegations going to various
09:04world capitals works to India's benefit, because this is also something and is going to be
09:10part of the kit, the foreign policy kit that every delegation member is going to go with.
09:16See what's happening in Pakistan, look what the general is doing.
09:20Is it for his personal interest?
09:22Is it for self-gain?
09:24And that certainly is going to be part of the conversation when the all-party delegations
09:28go to various world capitals as well.
09:31You know, that's interesting because, Raj, you know, Pakistan is claiming victory.
09:36You've had victory rallies taking place by Shahbaz Sharif, by various other groupings
09:41associated with the ruling party, and maybe the only reason I was given by a Pakistan
09:47analyst is that they believe they've stood up to India.
09:50And General Munir, therefore, has had his stature rise within the army at a time when
09:55it looked like he was in trouble.
09:56So do you expect the next step for the general to do perhaps what Ayub did, which is try
10:03and take over?
10:04Because if he doesn't take over sooner or later, he will find himself in trouble on
10:09the back foot.
10:10Is this a general who you believe wants to take over, or is he happy running, pulling
10:15the strings from behind?
10:16Look, he could have taken over any time in the last couple of months.
10:19He had become so powerful.
10:21But I think it suits him at the moment, because the economic front is not happy at all, and
10:26he'd like the civilian government to take the blame for whatever the economic woes are
10:30there.
10:31They're, you know, barring the fact that they are the IMF loan that has come at the right
10:34time for them, Pakistan is a basket case when it comes to the economy, and, you know, inflation
10:39will again rear its head, and all the problems that, economic problems that Pakistan has
10:44had will sort of rear its head again.
10:48So he would like that blame to go to them.
10:51And look, he's established his position because the moment India conducted, I mean, did the
10:55kind of strikes it did, automatically he becomes the most powerful, because he then,
11:00the army comes back as the guardian of Pakistan, which is what they always wanted to.
11:04If you recall, just take a look at this man, Rajdeep.
11:08He comes, I mean, he's sacked as ISI chief, right?
11:10He comes to power when the army is at its nadir.
11:14He is challenged by his own co-commanders, where there is a revolt almost happening on
11:19the streets of, unheard of in Pakistan, where the Lahore co-commander's house is attacked.
11:26And then he consolidates his position, sacks all those other generals that are against
11:31him, makes himself, you know, supreme when it comes to the army, then begins to take
11:36over the civilian side of the entire dispensation, right?
11:39There is a weak coalition government there, highly dependent on him for their existence,
11:45he moves into the economic front as well by having a special financial cell that has
11:50a lot of the army brass sitting in it, and therefore has all the levers of power that
11:55he wants.
11:56He is more than just a security czar, he is now virtually the czar of Pakistan in some
12:00senses, barring the designation of being, as General Musharraf was, president or, you
12:05know, CEO or whatever they'd like to call themselves at that time.
12:08Final question, Geeta, where does this leave Shahbaz Sharif?
12:12We've so far, whatever limited interaction India has had, has been in the last ten years
12:18with the Sharif family.
12:19Nawaz Sharif came here for Narendra Modi swearing in, Mr. Modi went in 2015, December, to Pakistan.
12:28Where does all of this, the rise of Asim Munir, leave Shahbaz Sharif, or is Shahbaz Sharif,
12:32as some are suggesting, someone who's already cut a deal with the army, so he's not an Imran Khan?
12:37Well, it's a very interesting question.
12:39But yes, the Sharif brothers, Rajdeep, are very different.
12:43Mian Saab, that's Nawaz Sharif, is very different from Shahbaz Sharif.
12:47Remember, Shahbaz Sharif has been or was chief minister of the Punjab for the longest, and
12:52he stayed in power, despite and in spite of what happened with Nawaz Sharif.
12:58So he has, he knows how to deal with the army, how to deal with the terrorists who thrive
13:05in Lahore, and he's been cutting deals with them on both sides.
13:10If you look at the conversations, if you look at the statements, if you look at how Shahbaz
13:14has treated the army, and how he's propped up the army, it does seem like they have cut a deal.
13:20It's more important for this dispensation right now to stay in power, to remain in power,
13:25to remain protected, rather than to get into trouble, because they've seen what the army
13:30had done to Nawaz Sharif in the past, and certainly what the army has done to Imran Khan,
13:36which is just about the worst that any political leader has faced in Pakistan.
13:41Right. So we'll wait and see. General Asim Munir, the Jihadi general,
13:46self-anoints himself as field marshal. In a way, it can only happen in Pakistan,
13:50a country which over seven decades has seen more than four and a half decades, at least,
13:55of military rule. So it's the men in uniform who continue to control Pakistan, and that's
14:01one of the many differences between India and Pakistan. The army has always stayed in our
14:06barracks. In Pakistan, being a man in uniform appears to give you all the power you need,
14:12including to call yourself field marshal. Just contrast field marshal Sam Manikshaw
14:17with field marshal Asim Munir, and that will really tell you the difference in the way the army
14:24civilian leadership has worked in India and the way it's worked in Pakistan. Field marshal Manikshaw
14:30is the man who led India to that famous victory in 1971, and he was honored for his achievements.
14:37General Munir is taking over as field marshal just a week after Operation Sindhu, where clearly the
14:43Pakistani air bases suffered major damage and a message was sent to Islamabad. But that, I'm
14:51afraid, is the way the cookie crumbles in Rawalpindi at the GHQ. Raj Chengappa and Geeta Mohan for
14:58joining me, thank you very much. Let me turn to my other story. The battle may be over on the border,
15:04but slowly but surely, domestic politics is heating up. Operation Sindhu has now turned
15:09into a full-blown political slugfest between the BJP and the Congress. It started when Foreign
15:15Minister Jai Shankar claimed that Pakistan was told about the strikes on terror infrastructure.
15:22Rahul Gandhi hit back, called it a blunder. The BJP now calls him Mir Jaffer. Rahul Gandhi is
15:27asking questions. How many jets were shot down? Once again, the BJP is targeting him. Memes,
15:35accusations, history lessons flying fast. Is politics back after seemingly a quiet period? Take a look.
15:46While guns have fallen silent on the border, they have started booming on the political frontlines.
15:58The BJP and Congress are fighting a war on social media over Operation Sindhu,
16:03calling each other traitors. The ruling party shared a poster with
16:08merged pictures of Rahul Gandhi and Pakistan Army Chief Asim Munir.
16:15And a meme describing the leader of opposition as new age Mir Jaffer,
16:20the general who betrayed Siraj-ud-Daulah in the Battle of Plassey against the East India Company.
16:46The Congress hit back, calling SJ Shankar the foreign minister.
16:50Jai Chand, who as legends have it, invited Mohammad Ghori to fight Prithviraj Chauhan.
16:59What triggered the face-off is this recent statement by Foreign Minister Jai Shankar.
17:06At the start of the operation, we had sent a message to Pakistan saying,
17:10we are striking at terrorist infrastructure. We are not striking at the military.
17:15So the military has an option of standing out and not interfering in this process.
17:20They chose not to take that good advice.
17:26Rahul Gandhi cited Jai Shankar's statement to claim Pakistan was
17:30alerted about the airstrikes, which resulted in some Indian losses.
17:37Why was Pakistan informed? And why were the people of Punj not informed?
17:41If you could inform Pakistan, perhaps that's why Hafiz Saeed, Azhar Masood,
17:45and the terrorists of Belgaum killings were able to escape.
17:49If the DGMO were given two or three more days, we would have achieved much more.
17:54Why did the political leadership buckle under pressure?
17:58Why did Donald Trump announce the ceasefire?
18:00It is unfortunate and very regrettable that the Congress party and its senior most leadership
18:07have often chosen to disregard what our armed forces say
18:12and instead raise or ask questions of them or the government.
18:17The BGP also questioned Congress Chief Mallika Arjun Karge for calling Operation Sindhur a small war.
18:38The BGP also questioned Congress Chief Mallika Arjun Karge for calling Operation Sindhur a small war.
18:46The BGP also questioned Congress Chief Mallika Arjun Karge for calling Operation Sindhur a small war.
19:07The political consensus on Operation Sindhur is clearly falling apart.
19:22While India is sending all party delegations abroad to show a united front,
19:27back home the divide between the Narendra Modi government and opposition is widening.
19:34With Mausami Singh, Bureau Report, India Today.
19:38With Mausami Singh, Bureau Report, India Today.
19:41So are the gloves off now in this political war over Operation Sindhur?
19:46Is the BJP versus Congress slugfest soon to become an embarrassment?
19:50Should the opposition not ask questions of the Modi government?
19:54Is Rahul Gandhi in sync with the rest of his party?
19:57Some of the questions I want to raise.
19:58Tuhin Sinha is spokesperson BJP and Salman Soh is spokesperson Congress.
20:03Today an old style face-off between two political spokespersons.
20:07Salman Soh to you first.
20:09The fact is that before Operation Sindhur was launched,
20:13the Congress made it clear, whatever you do, we are fully with you.
20:18The moment the operation is over,
20:20the Congress is looking to find almost on a daily basis
20:23what they believe has gone wrong with the operation
20:26rather than even have a single statement to suggest that maybe some things have gone right.
20:33What has gone wrong for the Congress?
20:35Suddenly day after day, Rahul Gandhi in particular, to begin targeting the government.
20:42Rajdeep, I'm glad you started with this, that the Congress party from the very beginning
20:48made it very, very clear that after that dastardly terrorist attack in Pahalgam,
20:53the Congress party was fully with the government and with the armed forces of the country.
20:59Because this was a time for us to show unity,
21:02because terrorism can only be defeated if we are united.
21:06I think that was important and we did it.
21:08And I think in that, the government, the opposition, we all succeeded.
21:14Now, Rajdeep, what has happened since then is a few things have come to light,
21:19which we must address.
21:22And we need to address this from the beginning till the end and going forward.
21:28How did Pahalgam happen?
21:30What really happened at that time?
21:33Was there a lapse?
21:35It seemed that there was a security lapse, but nobody has taken any responsibility.
21:39Not one person has said that we are accountable.
21:43If you remember, Rajdeep, after the Mumbai attacks,
21:46the Home Minister and the National Security Advisor had to put in their papers,
21:49and they called Prime Minister Manmohan Singh weak.
21:52There is no accountability with them.
21:54You know, as far as the BJP is concerned,
21:56the BJP wants the glory of military action.
21:59But not the responsibility of civilian failure.
22:02We must address that.
22:03Then, okay, let me take, you make an important point.
22:08Let Tuin Sinha respond.
22:10You just heard Salman Soh say that the BJP wants to take the glory of military action,
22:16not the failure of civilian accountability.
22:18For example, if the opposition now asks the question about security lapses in Pahalgam
22:24and fixing of accountability for the same,
22:26or the fact that Donald Trump, the President of America,
22:29announces a ceasefire between India and Pakistan,
22:32are these legitimate questions not to be asked?
22:35Or is it if anybody asks questions,
22:37they are to be called anti-national to Tuin Sinha?
22:44Well, good evening, Rajdeep.
22:45Good evening, everybody.
22:46You know, let me first begin by calling out the notoriety
22:49and the bluff of Rahul Gandhi on a very important issue.
22:54You know, and since both of us, since all three of us over here
22:57are pretty good in our comprehension of English,
23:00and you could give a tutor class to, you know, to Congress if they aren't,
23:04what did our EAM say at the start?
23:07That was corroborated by the DGMO, General Rajiv Ghai,
23:13when he says, in the wake of our attacks on the terror camps,
23:17what does in the wake mean?
23:19Consequent to our attacks on terror camps,
23:22if Rahul Gandhi does not understand this,
23:25and he purposely and maliciously distorts an innocuous statement of EAM,
23:31I think, you know, there are sinister motives written all over it,
23:35and that needs to be called out.
23:37You know, the facade of Rahul Gandhi standing with the government
23:41and the facade of him supporting the country
23:44has, you know, been blown to smithereens.
23:46Today, Khargeji says,
23:48choti moti yudh, chutput yudh,
23:51and within one hour of that,
23:52you know, you have seen Aseem Munir being promoted.
23:55So there seems to be a bizarre,
23:56there seems to be a weird coordination going on
24:00between this Congress party and their friends overseas.
24:03My simple question is...
24:04Isn't that a stretch?
24:05One minute, one minute, one minute.
24:06Rahul Gandhi seems to derive some sort of...
24:08Let me, let me complete this.
24:09No, no, Twinsina, are you seriously saying
24:11that the Congress party is working in tandem with Pakistan?
24:14The first part you made,
24:15saying that Rahul Gandhi is misquoting Jai Shankar.
24:18I'm asking you a simple question.
24:19But then you're going on to make a leap from there
24:21to suggest that Rahul Gandhi is in tandem with Pakistan.
24:25I am asking you...
24:28I am asking you a simple question
24:30that would answer your question.
24:31Why are the Congress leaders so hell-bent
24:34on becoming stars in the Pakistani media?
24:37Have you seen how many Pakistani channels
24:39are courting Congress leaders to score brownie points?
24:43Is that what is expected
24:44of a responsible opposition at this hour?
24:47Have we seen the Congress party...
24:49Rahul Gandhi seems to be deriving some sort of a wicked glee
24:52in assuming that we have had damages.
24:56But have we seen Congress party exude
24:59half as much excitement
25:00when the DGMO listed out 11 PAF bases
25:04which have been destroyed?
25:05Where are the priorities of this Congress party?
25:08Where are the loyalties of this Congress party?
25:10That is a serious question
25:11which the whole country is asking.
25:13Okay, let me ask this question to Salman.
25:16Salman, the Congress party,
25:19does it recognize or realize
25:21that whatever Rahul Gandhi says,
25:23for example, when he says,
25:24please tell us how many jets were shot down,
25:26that these quotes will then be used in Pakistani media
25:31to try and somehow suggest
25:32that Pakistan won the war in the air.
25:35Is that what Rahul Gandhi wants?
25:37It's one thing to ask question
25:38about accountability for Pahalgam security lapses.
25:41It's another thing when you start questioning
25:44military gains and losses
25:45at a time when the conflict is barely,
25:49is hardly concluded.
25:52Rajdeep, first, let me basically tell your audience
25:56that the question you posed to the BJP spokesperson
25:59was about taking responsibility,
26:01accountability, anything.
26:02And the BJP spokesperson had no answer
26:05because we know the answer.
26:06The people of India are not stupid.
26:08The people of India are smart.
26:09They know that the BJP is not,
26:11nobody in this government takes responsibility for anything.
26:14That is one.
26:15Second.
26:17Mr. Sohs, why didn't your leader only focus on that?
26:20He then went on to ask question
26:22about how many jets were shot down.
26:24Is that the right question to be asked?
26:26Rajdeep, let me get to these things.
26:28But, you know, you gave Tauhin some time.
26:30Let me give you, give me a minute.
26:32The second thing that is important to note
26:35is about you started with unity.
26:38Let me again take the audience and you back
26:41to what happened post Mumbai attacks.
26:44Prime Minister Manmohan Singh at that time
26:46called an all party meeting where he was present
26:49and he spoke to everyone, brought everybody together.
26:52And then after that, delegations of Indian parliamentarians
26:56and senior leaders went out of the country
26:59to take India's case abroad.
27:01Compare that with what has happened this time.
27:03There were two all party meetings.
27:05The prime minister did not think it fit
27:08to attend even one of them.
27:10Then after that, when it was time to send,
27:13by the way, the prime minister has been going
27:16to different countries.
27:18He's probably been about on a hundred trips.
27:20He's probably hugged 200 people on these foreign trips.
27:24But what did we see in this Rajdeep?
27:27You have been scouring the newspapers
27:30in India and abroad.
27:32What did we see?
27:33What we saw was diplomatic failure.
27:36What we saw was that no country,
27:39no Donald Trump, you know, gave back an embrace.
27:43Meanwhile, Pakistan is in a tight embrace with China
27:48and China is a country with which we have
27:50a hundred billion dollars of trade deficit.
27:53What is the government doing?
27:55It is shameful failure on the diplomatic front.
27:59Mr. Soz, you asked the question.
28:01You see, there are questions which you can ask,
28:03which are clearly in the national interest.
28:05There are other questions, perhaps,
28:07which perhaps need to, you know,
28:08you need to be a little bit more conscious
28:10about the timing of the question.
28:12But since it has been repeated by you more than once
28:15about what happened after 2611.
28:18Remember, Prime Minister Narendra Modi
28:20was then chief minister of Gujarat at the time.
28:23The operation was going on at Trident
28:28where the terror attack had taken place,
28:30one of the five-star hotels in Mumbai.
28:32And this was while the attack was going on.
28:34This is what the prime minister had said then.
28:35So, right in the middle of the operations to Hind Sinha,
29:05the prime minister was then chief minister
29:07and targeted Manmohan Singh.
29:09If that is kosher, Rahul Gandhi asking questions
29:12after the operation is over is not kosher.
29:15Are we saying that there are different standards
29:17to what happens when you are in power
29:19and when you are not in power?
29:23Let me remind you what happened after 2611.
29:28Exactly six months after 2611,
29:32the then prime minister Manmohan Singh
29:34had brought the shame of Sharmil Sheikh.
29:37Do you remember Sharmil Sheikh?
29:39That happened exactly six months after 2611
29:42where he gave permission to Pakistan
29:44to interrogate or to probe
29:46our imaginary involvement in Balochistan.
29:49No, no, one minute, one minute.
29:49This was during the operation.
29:51No, no, forget acting, forget acting.
29:54While the operation was...
29:55Just a minute, sir.
29:56While the operation was on in 2611,
29:59Prime Minister Modi at the time
30:00had attacked Manmohan Singh.
30:02Was that justified?
30:03Or are the rules different
30:05depending on where you sit?
30:06He was sufficiently away
30:11from the place of operations,
30:13but exactly two days after the event,
30:14Rahul Gandhi was partying.
30:16That is the difference.
30:17But anyway, you know, Mr. Source is asking,
30:20what are you doing?
30:21What have you done after the Pehalgam attack?
30:23We have avenged terror attacks
30:25dating back to even 1999.
30:27Who is accountable for the Pehalgam security lapse?
30:30Mr. Sinha, who is accountable
30:32for the Pehalgam security lapse?
30:33Mr. Tuin Sinha, who is accountable
30:35for Pehalgam security lapse?
30:37Mr. Sinha, who is accountable
30:38for Pehalgam security lapse?
30:40Has one officer been removed?
30:41No, no, Rajdeep, it seems you have been...
30:45Rajdeep, it seems you have been
30:46following news selectively.
30:47We have accepted there is a security failure.
30:50No, you know, a terror attack of this nature
30:52cannot happen without security failure.
30:55Now the point is, I am telling you,
30:57with our action, punitive action on Pakistan,
31:01we have avenged terror attacks
31:02dating back to 1999.
31:04So rest assured, this is an assurance
31:06I'm giving on your show,
31:07even the four terrorists involved in Pehalgam
31:10will be brutalized beyond your imagination
31:12and beyond the imagination of the Congress party.
31:15It's a matter of time.
31:16It's a matter of time.
31:17There is no going back, you know.
31:19We are ruthless on these terror groups.
31:22Okay, you know, Salman,
31:23so I played an old bite of Prime Minister Modi.
31:25Let me now play one of Rahul Gandhi.
31:27This was after the surgical strikes of 2016.
31:30This is what Rahul Gandhi said then.
31:33What are you doing?
31:36Our soldiers,
31:38our soldiers
31:40who have given their blood,
31:43those who have given their blood in Jammu and Kashmir,
31:46those who have given their blood for India
31:47in the surgical strike,
31:49you are hiding behind their blood.
31:51You are using their blood.
31:53This is absolutely wrong.
31:56Khoon ki dalali, you will recall,
31:58became a statement made by Rahul Gandhi
32:00at the time after Uri.
32:01The question, therefore, is,
32:03somewhere Salman shows,
32:05this kind of rhetoric that is brought out.
32:09Does it really work to your end?
32:11Should this be the rhetoric that politicians
32:13should resort to at a time of national crisis
32:16when Rahul Gandhi himself had said,
32:19we stand united behind the government.
32:21So you're back to Uri now.
32:23We thought things had changed between Uri and Pahalgam.
32:28Rajdeep, one question for the entire country.
32:31Should the prime minister
32:34be in military attire, saluting?
32:37He's the only face of Operation Sindhu,
32:41not the soldiers who are actually doing the work,
32:44who are putting their lives in danger.
32:46But it is only Narendra Modi, nobody else.
32:48Is that appropriate?
32:50Is that appropriate for this country?
32:52Is it appropriate for our democracy?
32:54Is it appropriate for our military?
32:56I think not.
32:57But let me now just ask you, Rajdeep.
33:01Like Doheen said,
33:05he was basically about to criticize
33:08the late Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.
33:10Let me remind you,
33:12and the people who are watching this TV show,
33:14that after that heinous attack,
33:19Pakistan was put on the Financial Action Task Force.
33:21How did that happen?
33:23Pakistan was criticized,
33:25basically, the Security Council
33:26passed a resolution against terrorists.
33:29The National Security Advisor of the United States,
33:31Condoleezza Rice,
33:32she was actually the Secretary of State.
33:34She said that Pakistan must bring those terrorists to heel.
33:38She said it.
33:39In this case, in this case, what happened?
33:44Even France, which sold us Rafale jets,
33:47which is our great ally now
33:49because we're buying so much defense equipment from them.
33:53Even they played it both sides.
33:56Donald Trump, you know, by the way,
33:59the Prime Minister is always saying
34:01that we are fish guru, mother of democracy.
34:05But when Donald Trump said
34:08that there is going to be a ceasefire
34:10before Pakistan and India,
34:11before anyone could say anything, nothing.
34:15The Prime Minister didn't say anything.
34:17The Prime Minister did not say that this is,
34:19we have not agreed to this.
34:21Do you want the Prime Minister to engage?
34:25The Prime Minister cannot engage
34:26in a public spat with Donald Trump.
34:28Surely that's not what you expected either.
34:30No, no, I disagree.
34:31I mean, my point is,
34:32all your attempts to score political points,
34:35are you losing, missing the wood for the trees?
34:38There are certain things you can say behind camera,
34:40certain things in public.
34:42No, no, Rajni, 30 seconds or less than that.
34:46The Prime Minister did not have to get
34:47into a public spat with President Trump.
34:50Obviously, we want to have good relations with America.
34:53We want very tight, good relations with America,
34:56but he could have certainly protected
34:59India's self-respect and said that this is not,
35:03maybe there's a misunderstanding.
35:04Okay.
35:05He could have diplomatically said it,
35:07but he did not protect the country's self-respect,
35:09and I think that is shameful.
35:10Okay, your 30 seconds are up.
35:12I will give Twins in our final 30 seconds.
35:14You know Twins, right through this show,
35:15we are showing these memes
35:17which are running on social media.
35:20Some which are showing Rahul Gandhi
35:21should get Nishan-e-Pakistan.
35:23The Congress has hit back also by showing
35:25half face of Modi, half of Shahbaz Sharif.
35:28Does any of this do credit to India
35:30at a time when we want to go to the world
35:32and project unity?
35:33My point is, you know, surely the way out
35:36would be for Prime Minister Narendra Modi
35:38and Rahul Gandhi to talk to each other.
35:40That's what previous Prime Ministers would do.
35:41Narsimha Rao would speak to Atal Bihari Vajpayee
35:44when he was the leader of the opposition.
35:46Armaan Singh would speak to LK Advani.
35:49Why is there this unwillingness
35:50to talk to each other?
35:52And instead talk at each other through social media?
35:54We are embarrassing ourselves.
35:55Since you are taking me...
35:56No, no, Rajdeep.
35:59Rajdeep, since you're taking me back
36:01to the Vajpayee era,
36:02let me remind you that in 1994,
36:05when Vajpayee had got the opportunity
36:07to represent India at the UNHRC summit
36:11at Geneva, entire BJP was proud.
36:15They did not behave in the petty manner
36:18that Rahul Gandhi is behaving
36:19just because Shashi Tharoor has been,
36:21you know, has been chosen
36:23to lead an important delegation.
36:25That is the crucial difference over here.
36:27This Congress party is a regressive party
36:30for the BJP.
36:31The nation comes first
36:32for this particular Congress party.
36:33Sir, I said the Prime Minister
36:35and the leader of the opposition would speak.
36:37I take your point,
36:38but the Prime Minister
36:39and the leader of the opposition
36:40would speak directly to each other.
36:43Mr. Tuwim Sinha,
36:44India's convention was for the leaders to speak.
36:47What stops the Prime Minister
36:48from speaking up the phone
36:50and speaking to Mr. Khargay?
36:51That is to upset India's diplomatic outreach.
36:55Okay.
36:56I'm going to leave it there.
36:57What we clearly see...
36:58Can you repeat the question, please?
37:00No, my limited point to you, Tuwim,
37:02was what stops the Prime Minister
37:04from picking up the phone,
37:05speaking to the leader of the opposition,
37:07and settling these issues
37:08rather than running these, you know, memes.
37:10So for that, Rahul Gandhi
37:11has to behave with responsibility.
37:13Five seconds on Shashi Tharoor.
37:14Five seconds.
37:16Rajiv, what Rahul Gandhi has done
37:19in the last two days amounts to perfidy.
37:23You know, the kind of behavior
37:24doesn't behove a leader of opposition.
37:27And I'm saying...
37:27I'm going to leave it there.
37:28...the responsibility on your show,
37:29just 10 more seconds,
37:30that he has done it
37:31with a larger, malafide intent
37:33to disrupt India's global outreach.
37:36At a time when, you know,
37:37the EM is traveling abroad,
37:39at a time when our missions are traveling abroad,
37:41his intentions are deliberate.
37:43It is to disrupt India's...
37:44Okay, your 10 seconds are up.
37:47I've listened to you carefully.
37:49I've listened to Salman.
37:50So I just wonder,
37:51and I only cite history,
37:53what stops the Prime Minister
37:54and the leader of the opposition
37:55from talking to each other?
37:57Surely that is the convention in this country.
38:01Why is that convention not being followed?
38:03That's the simple question I want to...
38:05This debate could end very easily
38:07if that was done.
38:08Minimum consensus,
38:09minimum respect for each other.
38:11Rahul Gandhi needs to introspect.
38:14Prime Minister Modi needs to introspect.
38:16And maybe if they introspected,
38:18they could find a way of talking to each other
38:21rather than talking at each other.
38:23The primary responsibility is though
38:25of the government
38:26to talk to the opposition
38:28rather than talk at it.
38:29And the opposition also needs to ensure
38:32that they show minimum respect
38:34to the office of the Prime Minister.
38:37Let's turn from there to another battle.
38:39Because while we are counting down
38:41to an all-party delegation
38:43that is going to visit different countries
38:44to set the record straight
38:46on Operation Sindoor,
38:49the fact is that
38:51while there will be politics
38:53and while all the issues
38:57can be raised in TV channels,
38:59the truth is that
39:00when it comes to taking on Pakistan-based terror,
39:03the country must stand as one.
39:05All these MLAs were...
39:06Many of the ministers were today...
39:08The MPs were briefed today
39:09by the Ministry of External Affairs.
39:11But what I want to ask is,
39:13why is it that it was necessary
39:15to try and win this battle now overseas?
39:18Because on social media itself,
39:21the Pakistanis have launched
39:22a very, very concerted attempt
39:25in recent times
39:26to understand how this social media war
39:29is being waged between India and Pakistan.
39:32I'm joined by Ankit Kumar,
39:33editor at OSINT.
39:35They look very carefully,
39:36particularly at social media trends
39:38as well as impact of that
39:40across the globe.
39:41Ankit, what have you found?
39:43I'm going to play the graphics now.
39:46From April 22nd,
39:47when Pahalgam happened to Operation Sindoor,
39:50compare India and Pakistan
39:52in the way they conducted their operations.
39:55Well, Rajdeep,
39:56now that the fog of war
39:58seems to be settling down,
39:59we now have time to decode
40:01the other warfare,
40:02that is the information warfare
40:04that was going on.
40:05So clearly there are two phases to it.
40:07First phase was the day of Pahalgam attack.
40:10It lasted until, let's say, May 6th.
40:13That was the time when Indian Air Force
40:15targeted the terrorist sites
40:16in Bahawalpur and Muridke.
40:18The second phase began on May 7th,
40:21and then it is continued.
40:23Now, let's begin with the second phase first.
40:25There is no doubt
40:26that the communication strategy
40:28from Indian side
40:29has been top-notch in second phase.
40:31You had two women officers.
40:33You have extensive use of satellite pictures
40:36in the press conferences.
40:37But the concern that we are hearing
40:39from diplomatic circles
40:40is about the phase one.
40:41You know, the moment Pahalgam happened,
40:45at least top three ministers
40:47of Pakistan cabinet,
40:48the foreign minister,
40:50the information minister,
40:51the defense minister,
40:52they started making very frequent,
40:55very frequent appearances
40:57in foreign media,
40:58especially in Europe,
40:59not limited to UK.
41:01Germany was covered.
41:02France was covered.
41:04Can you believe 25 such appearances
41:09in those foreign media
41:11compared to almost zero
41:13when it comes to top ministers from India?
41:16No, let me get that right.
41:1725 interviews were conducted
41:20by Pakistan's ministers
41:22across global platforms.
41:25Not a single Indian minister
41:26went on a global platform
41:27between April 22nd and May 7th.
41:31Am I correct?
41:32So 25 also includes
41:34another very prominent face from Pakistan,
41:36that is Bilal Bhutto-Javdari,
41:38the face of PPP,
41:40as opposed to India.
41:41Indian, we saw an outreach
41:44from Indian government,
41:45Indian envoys in UK, in USA
41:48after May 7th.
41:49But what had happened,
41:50according to diplomatic,
41:52former diplomats,
41:53is that by that time,
41:55Pakistan was able
41:57to somehow push this narrative.
41:59That this entire thing
42:01was not about Pahalgam terror attack.
42:04It was about the year-long,
42:05the decade-long controversy,
42:07the dispute of Kashmir
42:08between India and Pakistan.
42:10And that is where the concern
42:12is coming from,
42:12the re-hyphenation,
42:14the re-hyphenation of India and Pakistan.
42:16Somehow, the terror attack in Pahalgam...
42:19Let's put those numbers again.
42:21India's outreach in G20 nations.
42:2312 embassies
42:24neither conducted any event
42:27nor engaged with media.
42:28These are 12 of our embassies,
42:3018 embassies didn't engage with media.
42:33Embassies, 13 embassies
42:35didn't organize any event.
42:37So what were they doing?
42:38Basically, retweeting
42:40what the government of India was doing,
42:42but not actively engaging
42:44with their counterparts
42:46in the countries there.
42:47Am I right?
42:48So we have looked at 24 official accounts
42:50of our embassies or high commissions,
42:53G20 countries
42:54plus African Union countries.
42:56And what we have seen is that
42:57at least 18 did not have
42:59any media interaction
43:00during that time.
43:01And 12, of course, as you can see.
43:04And we have checked
43:06the official statements.
43:07What they have been doing was
43:08they have been reposting
43:10the official statements from PIV,
43:11maybe from the prime minister,
43:12from the external affairs ministry.
43:14But as far as the outreach event was concerned,
43:16that perhaps was the last opportunity.
43:19When you speak to those experts,
43:20they point out,
43:21because given the size and presence
43:22of India's diplomatic presence
43:24across the world,
43:25maybe that was the last window.
43:27That was the time
43:28to launch this diplomatic onslaught.
43:30Well, that's the hope now
43:32that this global outreach
43:33that India is launching next week
43:35will cover up for some of those lapses.
43:38Perhaps that was one factor
43:41that didn't quite work
43:42in the way we might have expected.
43:44There was a need early on
43:46for a stronger outreach.
43:48For with those details,
43:49I appreciate you, Ankit Kumar,
43:51for joining me.
43:51Let's turn to tonight's ground report,
43:53which comes from Bengaluru,
43:54a city which every year
43:56seems to be sinking.
43:58Even before the monsoons have started,
44:00the city is already flooded out
44:03after a spell of heavy rain.
44:05Three lives lost in a single day,
44:06roads flooded,
44:07homes submerged.
44:09But as families grieve,
44:10the Congress's top leaders
44:12are at the moment in Hospet,
44:13celebrating two years
44:15of the government there.
44:16More of this in our next report.
44:27India's IT hub sinking under flood,
44:32sparked by heaviest downpour this year.
44:36The city on its knees
44:38with key roads,
44:39metro stations
44:40and bus terminals flooded.
44:44And boats were seen on its roads
44:47to rescue those who were stranded.
44:50The city witnessed
44:52three rain-related deaths.
44:54In BTM layout,
44:5512-year-old Dinesh
44:57and 63-year-old Manmohan Kamath
44:59were electrocuted
45:01while trying to drain flood water
45:03from their homes.
45:05Earlier in Whitefield,
45:06a 35-year-old woman was crushed
45:08when a wall collapsed.
45:11Sai Layout in Horamahu
45:13is famous for Sai Baba Temple.
45:15And this is that Sai Baba Temple
45:17in Sai Layout,
45:18which is completely flooded.
45:19And if you notice that,
45:20as I told you earlier,
45:22the water was up to hip level.
45:24Now it has been resided,
45:25but it has not gone completely.
45:27But still there are slush inside the temple.
45:30The temple is completely flooded
45:33with slush, dirt and sewage water.
45:36And imagine the kind of people,
45:39the kind of suffering
45:40that the people have to go through
45:41because of these kind of flooded water.
45:44We have to suffer.
45:45We are the whole person,
45:46publics are sufferers here.
45:48Because we cannot blame the government,
45:49nor we cannot blame the nature.
45:51But they should take some precaution.
45:53It is a nearly 14 crore worth of project,
45:56very big project, in fact,
45:58being done under the supervision
45:59of the railway authorities.
46:01And there are so many
46:02inter-department coordination,
46:04et cetera, et cetera,
46:04activities involved.
46:06All those are now attended,
46:08solved in past one year.
46:10What I'm trying to tell you is,
46:11you only told me that
46:12from 10 years it did not happen.
46:15What I'm trying to tell you is,
46:16from past one year,
46:17because of the intervention
46:19of Honorable Deputy CM,
46:21Chief Commissioner,
46:22senior officers,
46:23under coordination efforts
46:24of the department
46:25and the railway authorities
46:26and other agencies,
46:27this has done some progress.
46:30But amid the mounting wars
46:32and cases of deaths,
46:33the Sidh Ramayya government
46:35is busy celebrating
46:36two years in power,
46:38with Congress Chief Malik Arjun Karge
46:40and Congress MP Rahul Gandhi
46:42in attendance,
46:44promoting BJP to hit out hard.
46:48D.K. Shukumar
46:49and other senior Congress leaders
46:53every time they speak
46:54about greater Bangalore,
46:56adding greater to Bangalore name
46:59will not resolve the crisis.
47:02Last two years,
47:03they've done nothing
47:04for Bangalore city.
47:05Travel across Bangalore,
47:06you will see only potholes,
47:09water clogging everywhere.
47:10So this government
47:12is not at all serious
47:15about Karnataka development.
47:16Honorable Deputy CM Malik Arjun Karge,
47:20our leader and leader opposition
47:22Rahul Gandhi, Sidh Ramayya, D.K. Shukumar,
47:24all the leaders are going to
47:25participate here.
47:26It is a historic,
47:27send a message
47:28that in two years
47:29what we have promised,
47:30we have delivered
47:31for the people of Karnataka.
47:33The people are very happy
47:35because whatever we have promised,
47:37all five guarantees
47:38have been implemented.
47:40Is Sidh Ramayya government
47:42putting celebrations
47:43about governance?
47:45With Sagar Raj,
47:46Bureau Report,
47:47India Today.
47:49And that's a question
47:50I asked a little while ago
47:51to Rizwan Arshad,
47:52two-time MLA and MLC
47:53from Bengaluru
47:55who joins me
47:55of the Congress Party.
47:56Rizwan, your party
47:58celebrating a two-year
47:59anniversary in Hospet
48:00at a time when your capital city,
48:02Bengaluru is flooded.
48:03The optics are terrible.
48:05What is more important,
48:06celebration
48:07or showing that empathy
48:08to citizens who've suffered
48:09due to rains?
48:12Rajdeep,
48:12this was not only
48:13the two-year celebration
48:15on record.
48:15I would like to tell you
48:16that our government
48:18had took up ambitious program
48:21to regularize
48:22all the gram thanas
48:25and revenue villages
48:27which had never got
48:28their title deeds,
48:30their right on their ownership.
48:32And we had decided
48:37to do a program
48:39where we will be historically
48:41distributing 1,11,000
48:4511,111 families
48:50a title deed
48:52which had been
48:52denied to them
48:54since independence.
48:55So it was a historical program
48:56decided earlier
48:58where all the beneficiaries
49:00had assembled.
49:01So we had to go ahead
49:02with the program.
49:03And since it coincided
49:05with the month in May.
49:07Now you can carry on
49:08with a government program
49:09but surely your Bengaluru
49:10MLAs yourself included
49:12the minister in charge
49:13and deputy chief minister,
49:15D.K. Shivkumar
49:16should be focusing
49:17at the moment on a city
49:18which seems to be sinking.
49:19I mean they should be
49:20on the ground.
49:21You have to provide
49:22some solution to Bengaluru
49:25apart from having
49:25your government program
49:26in Hospet.
49:29No, no.
49:30The government program
49:31in Hospet was done
49:32under the leadership
49:33of the revenue minister
49:34and Mr. Shivkumar was here.
49:37I as a Bangalore MLA
49:38also left the program
49:39and came back to Bangalore.
49:41We are all on the ground.
49:42Rajdeep, I would like to tell you
49:44that there are certain
49:45fundamental issues in Bangalore
49:47which needs to be settled
49:48once for all.
49:49Unless we do that,
49:51this problem will persist
49:53and continue.
49:53No, but that is precisely
49:54the point.
49:55And our government is on that.
49:56And I would like to tell you
49:57Rajdeep that.
49:59That is precisely
50:00the point, Rizwan.
50:01What you said,
50:01there are persistent issues
50:03recurring year after year.
50:04We are seeing
50:04Bangalore flooded out
50:06and when the BJP was in power,
50:08you attacked them
50:08when Bangalore was flooded out.
50:10You are in power now.
50:12Do you accept that
50:13Bangalore needs to be
50:14in a far better position
50:16to handle the flooding
50:17and the accountability
50:18and the buck stops with you?
50:21Good that you have asked me, Rajdeep,
50:22that I would like to tell you
50:23that in Bangalore city,
50:25in the corporation area,
50:26there are 870 square kilometers
50:30of stormwater drains.
50:32I would like to tell you, Rajdeep,
50:33on record that
50:34we, when we were
50:35in the previous government,
50:37we built 400 square kilometers
50:39of stormwater drain,
50:40kept the money
50:42reserved for the next round of
50:44the next 400 square kilometers
50:46of stormwater drain.
50:47As soon as our government went
50:49and the BJP government came,
50:50they de-reserved that money
50:52and diverted that money
50:53to something else.
50:54They never built the rest
50:55of the stormwater drain.
50:57After we have come to power,
50:59we are spending nearly 2000 crores.
51:01The tenders have been done
51:03to build all the rest
51:04of the stormwater drains.
51:05One.
51:06Two, there is a fundamental problem
51:08in how Bangalore
51:09is being managed administratively.
51:11So, the current BBMP
51:14or the corporation
51:15which is unscientifically
51:17structured and unwildly spread across
51:20is unable to take
51:21the needs of Bangalore.
51:22So, we have brought in
51:24a Greater Bangalore Act
51:27which will restructure
51:28the whole administration
51:29into smaller corporations,
51:31make it more decentralized,
51:32make it more transparent,
51:34which area which can be
51:35easily governed.
51:37So, that kind of
51:38administrative policy decisions
51:40we have taken.
51:41Luckily, the governor
51:42has also given assent.
51:43We are on fundamentally
51:45setting things right
51:47for Bangalore city, Rajdeep.
51:49And we are on work
51:50and I am very sure
51:51in next one year,
51:52there will be a lot of change.
51:55I am giving you one,
51:56I am not giving you one year,
51:57I am giving you a few months, Rizwan.
51:59Monsoon is yet to start
52:00and we will see
52:01whether you can actually
52:02live up to all the promises
52:04you all make.
52:04Always easier to say,
52:07to target the government
52:09when you are in opposition.
52:10When you are in government,
52:12accountability is yours.
52:13Rizwan Arshad of Bangalore,
52:14joining me.
52:15Appreciate you are joining us.
52:17Our image of the day,
52:18the beating the retreat ceremony
52:21on the Wagah-Atari border
52:23has been scaled down.
52:24No handshake,
52:25no opening of gates.
52:27The ceremony resumed
52:28after 12 days.
52:30The question therefore is,
52:31do these ceremonials
52:33really matter
52:34when two countries
52:35are in a bitter conflict
52:37of the kind we've seen?
52:39And how does one respond
52:40when Pakistan shells
52:42our innocent villagers
52:43along the border
52:45and then expects
52:47the ceremonies to take place
52:48on Wagah-Atari?
52:50Think about it.
52:51We need to move beyond optics
52:54on both sides.
52:55Bye for now.
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