- 8 months ago
The transcript covers a heated debate between Congress and BJP representatives on the government's handling of the Pahalgam attack and subsequent diplomatic efforts. Key points include questions about security lapses, accountability, and India's diplomatic outreach. The discussion also touches on the need for unity during national crises and the communication gap between the Prime Minister and the Opposition leader.
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00:00...off now in this political war over Operation Sindhuur.
00:04Is the BJP versus Congress slugfest soon to become an embarrassment?
00:08Should the opposition not ask questions of the Modi government?
00:12Is Rahul Gandhi in sync with the rest of his party?
00:15Just some of the questions I want to raise.
00:16Thuheen Sinha is spokesperson BJP and Salman Sos, spokesperson Congress.
00:21Today an old-style face-off between two political spokespersons.
00:25Salman Sos, to you first.
00:27The fact is that before Operation Sindhuur was launched,
00:31the Congress made it clear, whatever you do, we are fully with you.
00:36The moment the operation is over, the Congress is looking to find almost on a daily basis
00:41what they believe has gone wrong with the operation,
00:44rather than even have a single statement to suggest that maybe some things have gone right.
00:50What has gone wrong for the Congress suddenly, day after day, Rahul Gandhi in particular,
00:55to begin targeting the government?
01:00Rajneef, I'm glad you started with this, that the Congress Party, from the very beginning,
01:05made it very, very clear that after that dastardly terrorist attack in Pahal,
01:10the Congress Party was fully with the government and with the armed forces of the country.
01:17Because this was a time for us to show unity, because terrorism can only be defeated if we are united.
01:24I think that was important, and we did it.
01:26And I think in that, the government, the opposition, we all succeeded.
01:32Now, Rajneef, what has happened since then is a few things have come to light,
01:37which we must address.
01:39And we need to address this from the beginning till the end and going forward.
01:46How did Pahal Gham happen?
01:49What really happened at that time?
01:52Was there a lapse?
01:54It seemed that there was a security lapse, but nobody has taken any responsibility.
01:58Not one person has said that we are accountable.
02:02If you remember, Rajneef, after the Mumbai attacks,
02:04the Home Minister and the National Security Advisor had to put in their papers.
02:08And they called Prime Minister Manmohan Singh weak.
02:11There is no accountability with them.
02:13You know, as far as the BJP is concerned,
02:15the BJP wants the glory of military action,
02:18but not the responsibility of civilian failure.
02:21We must address that.
02:22Okay, let me take, you make an important point.
02:27Let Thuheen Sinha respond.
02:28You just heard Salman Sos say that the BJP wants to take the glory of military action,
02:35not the failure of civilian accountability.
02:37For example, if the opposition now asks the question about security lapses in Pahal Gham
02:43and fixing of accountability for the same,
02:46or the fact that Donald Trump, the President of America,
02:49announces a ceasefire between India and Pakistan,
02:52are these legitimate questions not to be asked?
02:54Or is it anybody asks questions, they are to be called anti-national to Thuheen Sinha?
03:03Well, good evening, Rajneef.
03:04Good evening, everybody.
03:05You know, let me first begin by calling out the notoriety
03:09and the bluff of Rahul Gandhi on a very important issue.
03:13You know, and since both of us, since all three of us over here
03:15are pretty good in our comprehension of English,
03:18and you could give a tutor class to, you know, to Congress if they aren't,
03:22what did our EAM say at the start?
03:25That was corroborated by the DGMO, General Rajeev Ghai,
03:31when he says, in the wake of our attacks on the terror camps,
03:35what does in the wake mean?
03:37Consequent to our attacks on terror camps.
03:40If Rahul Gandhi does not understand this,
03:43and he purposely and maliciously distorts an innocuous statement of EAM,
03:49I think, you know, there are sinister motives written all over it,
03:53and that needs to be called out.
03:56You know, the facade of Rahul Gandhi standing with the government
03:58and the facade of him supporting the country
04:01has, you know, been blown to smithereens.
04:04Today, Kargeji says,
04:06Chhoti moti yudh, chutput yudh,
04:09and within one hour of that,
04:10you know, you have seen Haseem Munir being promoted.
04:12So, there seems to be a bizarre,
04:14there seems to be a weird coordination going on
04:18between this Congress party and their friends overseas.
04:21My simple questions are...
04:22Isn't that a stretch?
04:23One minute, one minute, one minute.
04:24Rahul Gandhi seems to derive some sort of...
04:26Let me, let me completely...
04:27No, no, are you seriously saying
04:29that the Congress party is working in tandem with Pakistan?
04:32The first part you made,
04:33saying that Rahul Gandhi is misquoting Jai Shankar...
04:36I am asking you a simple question.
04:37But then you are going on to make a leap from there
04:39to suggest that Rahul Gandhi is in tandem with Pakistan.
04:43I am asking you...
04:45I am asking you a simple question
04:48that would answer your question.
04:49Why are the Congress leaders so hell-bent
04:52on becoming stars in the Pakistani media?
04:55Have you seen how many Pakistani channels
04:57are quoting Congress leaders to score brownie points?
05:00Is that what is expected of a responsible opposition at this hour?
05:05You know, have we seen the Congress party...
05:07Rahul Gandhi seems to be deriving some sort of a wicked glee
05:10in assuming that we have had damages.
05:14But have we seen Congress party exude
05:16half as much excitement
05:18when the DGMO listed out 11 PAF bases
05:22which have been destroyed?
05:23Where are the priorities of this Congress party?
05:26Where are the loyalties of this Congress party?
05:27That is a serious question
05:29which the whole country is asking.
05:31Okay, let me ask this question to Salman.
05:34So, Salman shows,
05:36the Congress party,
05:37does it recognize or realize
05:39that whatever Rahul Gandhi says,
05:41for example, when he says,
05:42please tell us how many jets were shot down,
05:45that these quotes will then be used
05:46in Pakistani media
05:48to try and somehow suggest
05:50that Pakistan won the war in the air.
05:53Is that what Rahul Gandhi wants?
05:55It's one thing to ask a question
05:56about accountability for Pahalgam security lapses.
05:59It's another thing when you start questioning
06:01military gains and losses
06:03at a time when the conflict is barely,
06:06is hardly concluded.
06:09Rajdi, first, let me basically tell your audience
06:13that the question you posed to the BJP spokesperson
06:16was about taking responsibility,
06:19accountability, anything.
06:20And the BJP spokesperson had no answer
06:23because we know the answer.
06:24The people of India are not stupid.
06:26The people of India are smart.
06:27They know that the BJP is not,
06:29nobody in this government
06:30takes responsibility for anything.
06:32That is one.
06:33Second, let me also address...
06:33No, but why didn't your leader only,
06:35no, no, Mr. Sos,
06:36why didn't your leader only focus on that?
06:38He then went on to ask questions
06:40about how many jets were shot down.
06:42Is that the right question to be asking?
06:44Rajdi, let me get to these things.
06:46But, you know, you gave Tohin some time.
06:48Let me give you a,
06:49give me a minute.
06:50The second thing that is important to note
06:53is about, you started with unity.
06:56Let me again take the audience
06:58and you back to what happened
07:00post-Mumbai attacks.
07:02Prime Minister Manmohan Singh at that time
07:03called an all-party meeting
07:05where he was present
07:06and he spoke to everyone,
07:08brought everybody together.
07:10And then after that,
07:11delegations of Indian parliamentarians
07:14and senior leaders
07:15went out of the country
07:16to take India's case abroad.
07:19Compare that with what has happened this time.
07:21There were two all-party meetings.
07:23The prime minister did not think it fit
07:26to attend even one of them.
07:28Then, after that,
07:30when it was time to send,
07:31by the way,
07:32the prime minister has been going
07:34to different countries.
07:36He's probably been about on 100 trips.
07:38He's probably had 200 people
07:41on these foreign trips.
07:42But what did we see in this?
07:44Rajdeep, you have been scouring
07:46the newspapers in India and abroad.
07:49What did we see?
07:51What we saw was diplomatic failure.
07:54What we saw was that
07:56no country,
07:57no Donald Trump,
07:59you know,
08:00gave back an embrace.
08:01Meanwhile,
08:02Pakistan
08:03is in a tight embrace with China.
08:06And China is a country
08:07with which we have
08:08a hundred billion dollars
08:10of trade deficit.
08:11What is this government doing?
08:13It is shameful.
08:14Failure on the diplomatic front.
08:16Mr. Soze,
08:18you asked the question.
08:19You see,
08:19there are questions
08:20which you can ask
08:21which are clearly
08:22in the national interest.
08:23There are other questions
08:23which perhaps need to,
08:26you know,
08:26you need to be a little bit
08:27more conscious
08:28about the timing
08:29of the question.
08:30But I,
08:30since it has been repeated
08:32by you more than once
08:33about what happened
08:34after 26-11.
08:36Remember,
08:37Prime Minister Narendra Modi
08:38was then Chief Minister
08:39of Gujarat
08:40at the time.
08:41The operation
08:42was going on
08:43at Trident
08:44where the terror attack
08:47had taken place,
08:48one of the five-star hotels
08:49in Mumbai.
08:50And this was
08:50while the attack
08:51was going on.
08:52This is what
08:52the Prime Minister
08:53had said then.
08:53So right in the middle
09:21of the operations
09:22Tuhin Sina,
09:23the Prime Minister
09:24was then Chief Minister
09:25had targeted
09:25Manmohan Singh.
09:27If that is kosher,
09:28Rahul Gandhi
09:29asking questions
09:30after the operation
09:31is over
09:31is not kosher.
09:33Are we saying
09:33that there are
09:34different standards
09:35to what happens
09:35when you are in power
09:36and when you are
09:37not in power?
09:41Let me,
09:42let me,
09:43Rajdeep,
09:43remind you
09:44what happened
09:44after 26-11.
09:46Exactly six months
09:47after 26-11,
09:50the then Prime Minister
09:51Manmohan Singh
09:52had brought
09:52the shame
09:53of Sharm al-Sheikh.
09:55Do you remember
09:55Sharm al-Sheikh?
09:57Exactly,
09:57that happened
09:58exactly six months
09:59after 26-11
10:00where he gave
10:00permission
10:01to Pakistan
10:02to interrogate
10:03to probe
10:04our imaginary
10:05involvement
10:06in Balochistan.
10:07This was during
10:08the operation.
10:09No, no,
10:09Mr. Tuin Sina,
10:10while the operation
10:13was,
10:13just a minute,
10:14sir,
10:14while the operation
10:15was on in 26-11,
10:17Prime Minister Modi
10:17at the time
10:18had attacked
10:19Manmohan Singh.
10:20Was that justified?
10:21Or are the rules
10:22different depending
10:23on where you sit?
10:24He was sufficiently
10:24away from the
10:26place of operations.
10:26He was sufficiently,
10:28he was sufficiently
10:28away from the
10:30place of operations,
10:31but exactly two
10:31days after the event,
10:32Rahul Gandhi was
10:33partying.
10:34That is the difference.
10:35But anyway,
10:35you know,
10:36Mr. Sos is asking,
10:38what are you doing?
10:39What have you done
10:39after the Pahlgaam
10:40attack?
10:41We have avenged
10:42terror attacks
10:42dating back to
10:43even 1999.
10:45So have patience.
10:46Who is accountable
10:46for the Pahlgaam
10:47security labs?
10:48Mr. Sina,
10:49who is accountable
10:49for the Pahlgaam
10:50security labs?
10:50Mr. Tuin Sina,
10:52who is accountable
10:53for Pahlgaam security labs?
10:55Mr. Sina,
10:56who is accountable
10:56for Pahlgaam security labs?
10:58Has one officer
10:59been removed?
10:59We have accepted.
11:00No, no, Rajdeep,
11:00Rajdeep,
11:01it seems you have been,
11:02Rajdeep,
11:03it seems you have been
11:04following news selectively.
11:05We have accepted
11:06there is a security failure.
11:08No, you know,
11:09a terror attack
11:09of this nature
11:10cannot happen
11:11without security failure.
11:13Now the point is,
11:14I am telling you
11:15with our action,
11:17punitive action
11:18on Pakistan,
11:19we have avenged
11:20terror attacks
11:20dating back to 1999.
11:22So rest assured,
11:23this is an assurance
11:24I am giving on your show,
11:25even the four terrorists
11:26involved in Pahlgaam
11:28will be brutalized
11:29beyond your imagination
11:30and beyond the imagination
11:32of the Congress party.
11:33It's a matter of time.
11:34It's a matter of time.
11:35There is no going back.
11:37We are ruthless
11:38on these terror groups.
11:40Okay, you know,
11:41Salman,
11:41so I played an old bite
11:42of Prime Minister Modi.
11:43Let me now play
11:44one of Rahul Gandhi.
11:45This was after
11:46the surgical strikes
11:47of 2016.
11:48This is what
11:49Rahul Gandhi said then.
11:50Khun ki dalali,
12:15you will recall,
12:16became a statement
12:17made by Rahul Gandhi
12:18at the time after Uri.
12:19The question therefore
12:21is somewhere
12:22Salman shows,
12:23this kind of rhetoric
12:24that is brought out,
12:26does it really work
12:28to your,
12:29should this be the rhetoric
12:30that politicians
12:31should resort to
12:32at a time
12:33of national crisis
12:34when Rahul Gandhi
12:36himself had said,
12:37we stand united
12:38behind the government.
12:39So you're back
12:40to Uri now.
12:41We thought things
12:42had changed between
12:42Uri and Pahlgaam.
12:44Rajdi,
12:46one question
12:47for the entire country.
12:49Should the Prime Minister
12:50be in military attire
12:54saluting?
12:55He is the only face
12:57of Operation Sindhu,
12:58not the soldiers
13:00who are actually
13:01doing the work,
13:02who are putting
13:02their lives in danger,
13:04but it is only
13:04Narendra Modi,
13:06nobody else.
13:06Is that appropriate?
13:08Is that appropriate
13:09for this country?
13:10Is it appropriate
13:11for our democracy?
13:12Is it appropriate
13:13for our military?
13:14I think not.
13:15But let me,
13:16let me now
13:17just ask you,
13:18Rajdi.
13:19Like Toheen said,
13:21that, you know,
13:22after,
13:23he was basically
13:24about to criticize
13:25the late Prime Minister
13:27Manmohan Singh Ji.
13:28Let me remind you
13:29and the people
13:30who are watching
13:31this TV show,
13:32that after,
13:34after that heinous attack,
13:37Pakistan was put
13:38on the Financial Action
13:39Task Force.
13:39How did that happen?
13:41Pakistan was criticized
13:42basically the Security Council
13:44passed a resolution
13:45against terrorists.
13:46The National Security Advisor
13:48of the United States,
13:49Connelisa Rice,
13:50she was actually
13:51the Secretary of State.
13:52She said that Pakistan
13:53must bring those terrorists
13:55to heel.
13:56She said it.
13:57In this case,
13:59in this case,
14:00what happened?
14:01Even France,
14:03which sold us
14:04the NFL jets,
14:05which is our great ally now
14:07because we're buying
14:08so much defense
14:09equipment from them,
14:11even they
14:12played at both sides.
14:14Donald Trump,
14:15you know,
14:15by the way,
14:17the Prime Minister
14:18is always saying
14:19that we are a fish group,
14:20mother of democracy.
14:23But when Donald Trump
14:24said
14:25that there is going
14:27to be a ceasefire
14:27before Pakistan
14:29and India,
14:29before anyone
14:30could say anything,
14:32nothing,
14:33the Prime Minister
14:34didn't say anything.
14:35The Prime Minister
14:36did not say
14:36that this is,
14:37we have not agreed
14:38to this.
14:39The Prime Minister
14:39did not say
14:40that you cannot hide.
14:41Do you want the Prime Minister
14:41to engage,
14:41no, no,
14:42you know,
14:42Salman Sos,
14:43the Prime Minister
14:44cannot engage
14:44in a public spat
14:45with Donald Trump.
14:46Surely that's not
14:47what you expected either.
14:48No, no,
14:48I disagree.
14:49I mean,
14:49my point is,
14:49in all your attempts
14:51to score political points,
14:53are you losing,
14:54missing the wood
14:55for the trees?
14:56There are certain things
14:57you can say behind camera,
14:58certain things in public.
15:00No, no,
15:00Raji,
15:0130 seconds
15:01or less than that.
15:04The Prime Minister
15:04did not have to get
15:05into a public spat
15:06with President Trump.
15:08Obviously,
15:09we want to have
15:09good relations
15:10with America.
15:11We want very tight,
15:13good relations
15:13with America.
15:14But,
15:15he could have certainly
15:16protected India's
15:17self-respect
15:18and said that
15:20this is not,
15:21maybe there's
15:21a misunderstanding.
15:22Okay.
15:23He could have
15:23diplomatically said it,
15:25but he did not
15:25protect the country's
15:26self-respect.
15:26Okay, I...
15:27And I think that is shameful.
15:28Okay,
15:29your 30 seconds are up.
15:30I will give
15:30Tuin Sina final 30 seconds.
15:32You know,
15:32Tuin Sina,
15:32right through this show,
15:33we are showing
15:34these memes
15:35which are running
15:36on social media.
15:38Some which are showing
15:39Rahul Gandhi
15:39should get
15:40Nishane Pakistan.
15:41The Congress
15:42has hit back
15:43also by showing
15:43half face of Modi,
15:44half of Shahbaz Sharif.
15:46Does any of this
15:47do credit to India
15:48at a time
15:48when we want to
15:49go to the world
15:50and project unity?
15:51My point is,
15:52you know,
15:53surely the way out
15:54would be for
15:54Prime Minister
15:55Narendra Modi
15:55and Rahul Gandhi
15:56to talk to each other.
15:58That's what
15:58previous Prime Ministers
15:59would do.
15:59Narsimha Rao
16:00would speak to
16:01Atal Bihari Vajpayee
16:02when he was the leader
16:03of the opposition.
16:04Mahmohan Singh
16:05would speak to
16:06LK Advani.
16:07Why is there
16:07this unwillingness
16:08to talk to each other?
16:10And instead
16:10talk at each other
16:11through social media?
16:12We are embarrassing ourselves.
16:13Since you are taking me
16:14No, no, Rajdeep.
16:17Rajdeep,
16:18since you are taking me
16:18back to the
16:19Vajpayee era,
16:20let me remind you
16:21that in 1994
16:22when Vajpayee
16:24had got the opportunity
16:25to represent India
16:26at the UNHRC
16:28summit
16:29at Geneva,
16:30entire BJP
16:32was proud.
16:33They did not
16:33behave in the
16:34petty manner
16:35that Rahul Gandhi
16:36is behaving
16:37just because
16:38Shashi Tharoor
16:39has been chosen
16:41to lead
16:41an important delegation.
16:43That is the
16:43crucial difference
16:44over here.
16:45This Congress
16:45Party
16:46is a regressive
16:47party
16:47for the BJP.
16:49The nation
16:49comes first
16:50for this particular
16:51Congress Party.
16:51I said the Prime
16:52Minister and the
16:53Leader of the Opposition
16:54would speak.
16:55I take your point
16:56but the Prime
16:57Minister and the
16:57Leader of the Opposition
16:58would speak
16:59directly to each other.
17:01Mr. Tuin Sina,
17:02India's convention
17:03was for the leaders
17:04to speak.
17:05What stops the
17:06Prime Minister
17:06from picking up
17:07the phone
17:08and speaking to
17:09Mr. Kharge?
17:09That is to upset
17:09the India's
17:10diplomatic outreach.
17:13Okay.
17:14I'm going to
17:14leave it there.
17:15What we clearly
17:16see is a...
17:16Can you repeat
17:17the question, please?
17:18No, my limited
17:19point to you,
17:20Tuin was.
17:20What stops the
17:21Prime Minister
17:22from picking up
17:22the phone,
17:23speaking to the
17:23Leader of the
17:24Opposition
17:24and settling
17:25these issues
17:26rather than
17:26running these
17:27you know...
17:28For that,
17:28Rahul Gandhi
17:29has to behave
17:30responsibility.
17:31Five seconds.
17:33Okay.
17:34Rajiv,
17:34what Rahul Gandhi
17:35has done
17:37in the last
17:38two days
17:38amounts to
17:39perfidy.
17:41You know,
17:41the kind of
17:41behavior doesn't
17:42behave a
17:43leader of
17:44opposition.
17:45And I'm
17:45saying this
17:46responsibility
17:46on your show,
17:47just ten more
17:48seconds,
17:48that he has
17:48done it with
17:49a larger
17:50malefied
17:50intent to
17:51disrupt India's
17:53global outreach
17:54at a time
17:55when, you
17:55know,
17:55the EM is
17:56traveling abroad
17:57at a time
17:58when our
17:58missions are
17:58traveling abroad.
17:59His intentions
18:00are deliberate.
18:01It is to
18:01disrupt India's
18:02diplomatic outreach.
18:04I don't think
18:04I've listened to
18:06you carefully.
18:06I've listened to
18:07Salman.
18:08I just wonder
18:09and I only
18:09cite history.
18:11What stops
18:11the Prime
18:12Minister and
18:12the leader of
18:13the opposition
18:13from talking
18:14to each other?
18:16Surely that is
18:16the convention
18:17in this country.
18:19Why is that
18:19convention not
18:20being followed?
18:21That's the
18:21simple question
18:22I want to...
18:23This debate
18:23could end
18:24very easily
18:25if that was
18:26done.
18:26Minimum
18:27consensus,
18:28minimum
18:28respect for
18:29each other.
18:29Rahul Gandhi
18:30needs to
18:30introspect.
18:32Prime Minister
18:33Modi needs
18:33to introspect.
18:34And maybe
18:35if they
18:35introspected
18:36they could
18:36find a way
18:37of talking
18:38to each other
18:39rather than
18:39talking at
18:40each other.
18:41The primary
18:41responsibility
18:42is though
18:43of the
18:44government
18:44to talk
18:45to the
18:45opposition
18:45rather than
18:46talk at
18:47it.
18:48And the
18:48opposition
18:48also needs
18:49to ensure
18:50that they
18:50show minimum
18:51respect to
18:52the office
18:52of the
18:53Prime
18:53Minister.
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