00:00My name is Michael O'Brien. I was one of the Cardiff News Agent 3. I was wrongly convicted of a
00:26murder of a Cardiff News Agent in 1987 together with my two co-cues, Ellis Sherwood and Darren
00:31Hall. We spent 11 years and 43 days in prison and we're still looking for the real killer.
00:49I was involved in petty crime. We were out trying to steal cars on a night in question. Joyriding as
00:54they called it in those days, you know. I never fitted in in school. I never fitted in anywhere else.
00:59The little skinny kid with the glasses come from a poor background and I just wanted to fit in and I
01:05went along with this and we were in the wrong place at the wrong time, I would say. We wasn't at the
01:10murder scene at the exact time but we had passed near there, you know, about half an hour before.
01:16At the time of the murder, we were three miles, actually three miles away from the murder scene
01:21and the evidence they used against us was a serious criminals who were in serious trouble with the
01:26police at the time with long criminal records who had something to gain by giving false evidence.
01:32There was never no forensic evidence linking us to the crime because we didn't do it. I didn't know
01:36him as such. Just knew him as that he was the news agent man. I realised that we was afterwards
01:41when the police brought it to my attention. My wife brought me a watch off him and that it was a
01:45£10 watch. It was for my birthday and it didn't work and I told the police this, you know what I mean,
01:52that was the only thing I can remember of this man and they tried to say that that was a motive for
01:58killing him. I was absolutely shocked, horrified. I thought they can't be serious. I thought this,
02:08what are you arresting me for? I know, I knew I was out on a lighting question, trying to steal a car,
02:12but I think murder? I thought they must be mad. You know what I mean? And I thought they've got it
02:18wrong. Well, this will be sorted out in no time, I thought. I did think a lot of the police in those
02:23days. I did think the police, you know, done their job and only guilty people went to prison. You know what
02:28I mean? I was very naive in that regard. So, you know, I had a lot of faith in the police and I thought,
02:34they just made a mistake. When a certain police officer made up a confession outside the cells saying me and my
02:40co-workers, Ellis Sherwood, actually confessed to the crime and jotted down a note on an expenses form,
02:48I knew then that the police were trying to frame me for the murder. I mean, I had to,
02:52you know, stark reality hit me and I was just so mortified. I was suicidal. I was suicidal,
03:00you know, and I went into, I remember going my first night in Cardiff prison and I just,
03:05I wasn't cut out for prison. I just couldn't deal with it. You know, it was just such a shock to my
03:10system that, you know, I've still got some scars on my arms here where I've tried to cut myself,
03:16it was a cry for help. You know what I mean? I didn't know what to do. I didn't know where to turn to.
03:22It was, it was just, it's your worst nightmare being wrongly accused of something you haven't done.
03:26I thought, I thought, I thought there was a possibility we would get found not guilty because
03:30I knew we hadn't done it. I knew my co-workers, dad and all had done it. He was with us on the 19
03:35question. So I know he couldn't have done the murder and I couldn't work out why he was saying
03:39he was part of it when he couldn't have. It was impossible.
03:4720th of July 1988, I'll never forget that day as long as I live,
03:52the jury came back and said, you know, the judge asked, was it unanimous or a majority? And they
04:00said it was a majority of 10 to 2. So two jury members believed we didn't do it, even though
04:04Darren Hall said he'd done it, which is extraordinary when you think about it. They must have believed
04:09that what we were saying was true. But nevertheless, we got found guilty. I remember Sir Michael Davis,
04:16the judge at the time saying, you've had every opportunity through your lawyers and through the
04:21courts to present your case. In my view, you've been found guilty, rightly so in my view.
04:27I remember the priest coming over to me saying, you've got a special visit. I think you'd better
04:41sit down or my solicitor come in. I said, what's going on? You know you had a bad feeling in your
04:46stomach. I had a bad feeling that something was about to occur and I didn't know what it was.
04:51I was hoping it was new evidence to clear our names. You know, that was the first thing I
04:54got on my mind. And when I seen the tone of my lawyer, the way he qualked and said,
04:58I think you'd better sit down. I knew it was bad. And he said, listen, I've got to tell you this.
05:04And he said, I don't know what to tell you, but your baby daughter died this morning.
05:08I just went white and I just started crying. I just, what is happening to me? You know,
05:13I'm in prison for something I haven't done. My child has died. A couple of weeks later,
05:19my wife walks out on me. I'd lost everything.
05:34The fight back began. I started studying law and oh my god, I took to her like a duck to water.
05:41Prison authorities knew I was having visits from journalists and they banned the journalists
05:46from coming to see me. So I looked through the law books and said, well, what about article 10,
05:52the right to free speech? Prisoners maintain all their civil rights in prison unless parliament
05:56have expressly taken them away from them. Raymond versus Honey in 1983. So I started quoting them
06:02the governors, the law, but they were going, no, no, no, no, no. You can't have journalists.
06:06I took them all the way to the House of Lords and the House of Lords said I was right. I made legal history.
06:10I knew Jeremy Bamber more than what I knew Charlie Bronson. One of the prison officers tried to bully me
06:16was treating me really badly and Charlie overheard him and he said, if you've got a problem with me,
06:22then you've got a problem with me as well. And he stuck up for me and you know, the prison officer
06:27backed down. I was told by probation because I was protesting my innocence that I was going to die in
06:33prison. And I said, well, so be it. I'm not interested in parole. And I wrote to the newspapers at the time,
06:39saying, I don't want parole. I want justice. About 92, there was a new government which come in.
06:43I think it was John Major. There was a Royal Commission which was set up to look at miscarriages
06:48of justices in the wake of the Birmingham Six case. In 91, when they got out, the National
06:54Association of Basin Officers done a report on 50 cases they believed warranted further investigation.
07:00Mine was in there. We coordinated the hunger striking in the prison where there was 20 people in
07:05Long Larton on Ungerstride protesting their innocence. There was 15 in Gartree. There was 12 in Cardiff.
07:10There was a number, you know, and it went all around the country. It's the first time it's ever
07:13been coordinated. And we managed to get quite a lot of publicity on Radio 4. There was journalists
07:18writing to us and they done a couple of documentaries. They investigated the case. But the big breakthrough
07:24came in 95 when BBC, week in, week out, got in touch after I wrote them a letter. All the witnesses
07:31retracted their evidence and admitted the police. The police put them up to doing it. They were in
07:36serious trouble with the police. Their charges dropped and they explained all that as well.
07:40Darren Hall then went on national television on BBC Two's Homeground series apologising to me and Ellis
07:47Sherwood for what he did, his role in getting us wrongly convicted. We found out the police officer
07:53who made up the confession outside the cells has done it in numerous cases before. It was a year later that the
07:59the criminal cases review commission was set up to look at miscarriages of justices and everything
08:04I had said about what the police had done, they proved it. And they said that we were innocent.
08:12It was then I knew we were going home.
08:16I can remember the case being referred back to the Court of Appeal on October the 28th.
08:20We got bailed three days before Christmas, 1998. Even when you come out, you know, it's not a bed
08:27of roses, you know. We suffer a lot of psychological damage, you know. I'm still suffering a lot of
08:32psychological damage now. I'm still seeing a psychiatrist, you know, 25 years since I've been
08:38released. The real killers are still out there. I want the real killer court. There is evidence out there.
08:43There is a suspect out there. I want to know who done this to them, but I also want to know who done this to me.
08:49Was there any positives which kind of my wrongful imprisonment? Yes, there was. There was.
08:58One, I wouldn't have educated myself. Two, I wouldn't have learned to read the mic properly. I
09:03certainly wouldn't have changed it all six or seven times like I have done. I wouldn't have gone to
09:07college. I wouldn't have got my A-levels in law. And I certainly wouldn't have wrote two award-winning
09:11books. So I've got to take that as some sort of comfort for what's happened to me. But I can't take
09:18no comfort in the fact that I've got nobody responsible for the murder of Philip Saunders
09:24and for the victim's family. There is no comfort for them.
09:34people alone.
09:36Ensure that being experienced.
09:44is
09:48a
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