Präsident der Eurogruppe: Regelbasiertes Nachkriegssystem steht zur Verhandlung

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Präsident der Eurogruppe: Regelbasiertes Nachkriegssystem steht zur Verhandlung

Der irische Finanzminister und Vorsitzende der Eurogruppe, Paschal Donohoe, ist der Ansicht, dass die Institutionen, die nach dem Zweiten Weltkrieg entstanden sind, von den Vereinigten Staaten in Frage gestellt werden.

LESEN SIE MEHR : http://de.euronews.com/2025/05/15/prasident-der-eurogruppe-regelbasiertes-nachkriegssystem-steht-zur-verhandlung

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00:00Welcome to the Europe Conversation.

00:09My guest this week is Pascal Donoghue, Finance Minister of Ireland

00:12and President of the Eurogroup of Eurozone Finance Ministers.

00:16He says his country and several others are against the idea of a digital tax on the tech sector

00:21in response to Donald Trump's widespread tariffs,

00:24despite the fact that this is a very popular move in other countries like France.

00:30Pascal Donoghue, President of the Eurogroup and Finance Minister of Ireland,

00:34thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.

00:37Shona, thank you for having me on.

00:39Well, look, let's start with the EU-US trade negotiations.

00:43We know that the EU has for some time now being offered a zero for zero tariff rate,

00:49but the US is not satisfied with that.

00:51It wants much greater access to the EU's markets when it comes to agriculture and other areas.

00:56And a lot of people would say that they'd like to see huge deregulation

00:59when it comes to the tech sector, the DSA, the DMA.

01:02Can you say that the EU is not for that, not for lowering standards for the sake of a deal?

01:09So we're not for lowering standards for the sake of that.

01:11And we do have to have a debate and an assessment within the European Union regarding our competitiveness

01:19and the degree to which decisions that we have taken may have contributed to our competitiveness declining

01:26with an impact on our growth, the impact on the number of jobs we may create in the future.

01:31So through that prism, it is important that we assess the regulations that we have and whether they are proportionate.

01:39But while I am convinced that an agreement between the EU and US is in the best interest of both,

01:46I certainly would take great care for a degree of deregulation being part of such an agreement.

01:54So when you say competitiveness, then what could it look like without lowering standards,

01:59without reducing what's in the DSA and the DMA?

02:03What could it potentially look like in theory?

02:06So I think there's a few strands for what it could look like.

02:09It could look like the efforts that we have in relation to the exchange of goods and the tariff levels for that.

02:17And what the EU have outlined as zero for zero is a very ambitious,

02:21but I believe important recognition of the value of trade and how it could be driven further.

02:26It could also look like commitments that we would have to buy more from each other in particular areas.

02:33And it could also look at what we could do in terms of the mutual recognition of the standards that each other have.

02:41And while that is easily and better understood with regard to goods, it could play a role with regard to services.

02:47This is a relationship, as you know, that's worth billions of euros every single day.

02:53And any change at all, no matter how small,

02:56that eases with the flow of that exchange of goods and services on a daily basis,

03:01on an annual basis could be worth a big improvement to both of us.

03:05We know that when the EU announced a couple of weeks ago its potential tariffs in the event that there's no negotiation led to,

03:13that digital services wasn't on that yet, but it potentially is on the table.

03:16Do you think that the reason why that's not there is because it's really a controversial part of the negotiations between the two sides?

03:23So I believe it is understood as a move that, if it were to be applied, could have larger spillover effects.

03:32It could, at that point, become difficult to look at what would be paths for further de-escalation.

03:38And it could make a trade relationship, which is obviously facing a very big challenge at the moment, face an even bigger one.

03:48Ireland and I have long-standing concerns regarding the role and use of digital services taxes.

03:55And my sense is that in the debate that is now taking place at the moment,

04:00it is understood as an option, but it's also understood as an option that could have very significant consequences.

04:08Indeed, but countries like Germany and France, particularly France, would push for something like that.

04:12And I think it's inevitable in a negotiation like this that is taking place,

04:18that different members of the European Union will have different views.

04:22That is, after all, I believe, our strength.

04:25And what we will do is listen to each other and find a balanced outcome regarding options that we may need to take now

04:32and other options that we might need to consider in the future.

04:35But I think it is fair to say that there are a group of countries within the European Union

04:40that would have significant concerns regarding the use of DSTs

04:44and the spillover effects that it could have on the trade negotiations

04:48and the health of the economic flows between the EU and US.

04:52We note that the EU is also saying that regardless of what is the outcome of the next negotiations,

04:57it needs to seek stronger association with other markets, whether it's Canada and so on.

05:02But do you see there might be a renewal of the EU-China relationship as part of this?

05:07We have acknowledged that China can be a partner in many areas,

05:13but we've also acknowledged that in other areas they do pose challenges for the European Union.

05:19And I think that continues to be the right balance.

05:23It is absolutely inevitable as we look at the unfortunate trade tension

05:28that is taking place between the US and the European Union.

05:31The European Union will look at other ways in which it can generate and deepen trade.

05:37We'll do that twofold.

05:39Firstly, through our own single markets and our trade with each other.

05:42And secondly, looking elsewhere in the world

05:44and looking at deeper trading relationships that we can have there.

05:48I think it's important, however, to be realistic,

05:51to say that new trading agreements with other parts of the world,

05:55at least in the short term,

05:57aren't comparable to what we might be able to get out of the single markets.

06:00On the broader issue around trade with the EU and other countries trying to dash to

06:05not quite make up, but in some ways get stronger trade links across the world,

06:10do you think that there's a fear that the issues around global warming,

06:14human rights and other elements that used to be part of the priorities of a trade deal,

06:18that they will just be eliminated in the demand for making up for what we're losing out at the moment?

06:24That risk is definitely there.

06:27And it is part of how the EU needs to be agile in responding back to a world that has changed so much.

06:36But we do have to stand by particular values and ways of engaging with the world that are important to us.

06:44I think it is likely in trade negotiations that will happen elsewhere,

06:49that the reference that those particular issues would have got will, I fear, go down.

06:55But in what we need to do here in the EU, I certainly want to still ensure they have a high value.

07:01And I believe we can do that.

07:03And I believe we should do that.

07:04So just moving on to defence, which obviously is the most important issue almost at the moment.

07:10You very much supported common borrowing when it came to COVID,

07:14because obviously you saw the impact it was having across Europe.

07:17Do you support the same for this existential crisis?

07:20Do you support common borrowing for defence?

07:22I think in the time ahead, the most likely way in which further spending on defence will happen

07:30will be both at a national level in terms of the use of own national resources.

07:36And then secondly, in the new framework that the EU have brought forward,

07:41where we would look at the use of the National Escape Clause where needed.

07:44And we would also look at new forms of lending to each other to help with new forms of spending.

07:51So where's the trade-off?

07:53Because the defence spending has to go way up.

07:56And does that mean you take it out of cap?

07:59Or where does it come from? Cohesion funding?

08:01So I think in the time ahead, national defence spending will continue to be

08:05the larger component of how we respond back to Europe's security needs.

08:11I hope and I expect from the discussions that I can see happening,

08:16that that will be happening in a more coordinated way that has happened in the past.

08:20And I also think it's likely that progress will be made in areas of procurement.

08:26Therefore, that means that if there is a defence dimension to the next MFF and the EU budget,

08:32I still think it's likely to be smaller than the national contribution that members make

08:38to their own security and the security of the EU.

08:41And therefore, it is possible that the knock-on effect that it will have on other priorities

08:47within the EU budgets may be smaller than we think at the moment.

08:51But, you know, when you speak to any Prime Minister, Foreign Affairs Minister,

08:55Defence Minister across Europe, they all say the same thing,

08:57that this needs to be a unified European response to this existential threat,

09:03that it actually has to be much bigger than what has been sort of offered in REARM,

09:06and that it has to be European-wide.

09:10It's difficult to have that debate and not divorce us from the broader reality

09:14that, firstly, we'll be negotiating a budget for the new European Union.

09:19Secondly, next-generation EU, which is the new form of common borrowing

09:24that we have to deal with the crisis of a number of years ago of the pandemic,

09:29that that is still happening and still being evaluated.

09:33And death, in relation to all of that, both still has to issue

09:36and still has to be refinanced and dealt with at some point in the future.

09:41All of those things are going to come together.

09:44What's your assessment of the fact that Europe really has to do this alone now

09:47because the US is telling Europe we were shifting the burden,

09:51we're not sharing the burden, we're shifting the burden

09:52of European security to the European continent alone?

09:55I think that logic applies to so many elements now of the European Union,

10:02which is why I made the point to you there, Shona,

10:04that we can't have the debate about defence and security,

10:07as existential as it is,

10:10but have that debate without reference to very other big things

10:14that are going to happen now with regard to the EU.

10:16But a theme of what is now happening is the rules,

10:20the institutions that were set up in the aftermath of World War II,

10:23set up with American leadership.

10:26They're now being challenged, they're being contested.

10:28The institutions that we know, the rules in relation to trade and tax

10:32are all now open for renegotiation.

10:36That is now what is happening.

10:38Was Macron and Draghi right when they said Europe is mortal and it could die?

10:42All political order is mortal.

10:45All political order, if not capable of dying, is capable of declining.

10:49That is one of the many lessons that we have from the study of history.

10:53The European Union is no different.

10:55If you believe progress is inevitable,

10:58you're on your way to seeing that progress decline.

11:01OK, just finally, you're coming up to the end of your second term

11:04as president of the Eurogroup.

11:06You're running for a third term.

11:08Have other countries declared that they're going to run against you

11:12or what's the situation?

11:13So no formal declarations have happened yet,

11:15but of course it's open to every country to decide

11:18do they want to put forward a candidate or how do they want to vote?

11:22I'm really encouraged by the level of support that I have at the moment,

11:27but really all my focus is on completing my current mandate,

11:31which takes me all up to July,

11:33and then on the basis of my track record,

11:35asking countries to continue to support me in that work.

11:39We have a few weeks to go before we get to that point,

11:41and as we have just discussed,

11:42an awful lot can happen in a number of weeks in the world that we're in,

11:46but I am encouraged by the support I've currently received.

11:49OK, well, Pascal Dunneau,

11:50Finance Minister for Ireland and President of the Eurogroup,

11:52thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.

11:54Thank you, Shona.

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