00:00hello and good evening i'm melissa idris welcome to consider this this is the show where we want
00:15you to consider and reconsider what you know of the news of the day pkr will be heading into its
00:22most closely watched party elections at the upcoming party congress on the 24th of may now
00:28ibrahim is widely expected to retain his presidency and challenged but this will be his final term as
00:36the party constitution caps the president's tenure to at three terms max now this will make the race
00:44for the number two post all the more significant it could determine who succeeds anwar as the leader
00:50of pkr and could potentially be the next prime ministerial candidate contender so on the show
00:56tonight we'll ask who might lead pkr after anwar and what kind of party will it become joining me on
01:04the show to discuss this further is dr shaza shukri associate professor of political science at the
01:09international islamic university malaysia iium dr shaza welcome to the show thank you so much for
01:15joining me today um based on the the recent pkr divisional polls i'm just wondering what those
01:22results reflect to you about the current internal dynamics uh and sentiment within the party the pkr
01:32thank you melissa well when we look at the results for the past few weeks i think the clear signal that
01:38we can take out of it is that the people want change well at least you know pkr members the grassroots
01:44members they want change we don't know why because of course there's no clear a research on it yet on
01:52why this happened but from what we've gathered here and there it's like there is a gap i guess they
01:59might say between the people and the current leaders that we are used to within pkr some of the things that
02:06we've been hearing is that you know some of these people um have getting a gotten a promotion you know
02:12and become a minister and so they're no longer around and and things like oh when they're around they feel
02:20like they're no longer the same person that they were back then so they're trying to trying to send
02:26a message basically um that this is not who we want or at least at this point this is not who we want
02:33to represent pkr but we want someone new um it's not for certain that the people that have replaced
02:41um those that we saw lost uh like nick nazmi you know that they want the new um
02:49hate such as afrin chowki to to lead the party we don't know if that's what they're saying but
02:54definitely that they want something new that's for sure okay so so it's a reflection of maybe some
03:00internal discontent brewing now uh dr shazza at the time of this interview it's still a few hours
03:06till uh nominations close for party elections we have rafizi ramley who's expected to defend the
03:13deputy president's post and their speculation that neural isa anwar and saifuddin nasution could
03:19challenge him for this uh position if neural isa contests for deputy president can i ask you
03:28how you see that move is that considered would that be for you a step forward for this change that
03:36you speak of or a step forward for party unity or might that be a step backwards in terms of a slide
03:45towards dynasty politics right so i think here is where we have this this classic not contradiction but
03:55do we want stability or we want democracy this is something that we always grapple with so why i say
04:01this because uh a lot of supporters of nulisa uh kept on saying that this is the name of democracy
04:08what's wrong anyone can come in anyone can challenge rafizi it should not be an issue i say in the name of
04:14democracy for a party that celebrates democracy this should not even be in the news but the question
04:21here is is is neural isa the right person for this position she might be but the thing that we're
04:28worried about and i think this is tsd for everyone is the perception that people might have if you have
04:35the president and the deputy president being a father-daughter duo right of all the negative things
04:43that pkr have campaigned on let's say over the past decades we've never had pkr's um political what
04:53shall we say oppositions uh the other parties is what i'm trying to say even they never had this kind
04:59of um but sorry father son or father daughter uh leading a party so this party that's supposed to stand on
05:07reform and then this is what um going to happen i don't know uh how does it look like so back to your
05:16question uh is pkr sliding back is it a good move forward we really don't know because in terms of
05:24stability perhaps this is good right perhaps oh you know you have a clear succession father to a daughter
05:32but is that the kind of succession we want so a lot of questions are going on so maybe norizak
05:40could have waited a few more years then it would be much better perhaps all right well the the thing
05:47is i mean we've seen political tendencies before uh abno had the raza family the on jaafa line the uh in
05:56dap had the limb family as well is that just how malaysian politics works i mean the fact that there
06:04are these consolidations of power within um you know powerful elite political families or is it that
06:11we should be holding pkr to a different maybe higher standard well okay firstly that at least they're not at
06:19the same time um that's the the main difference uh the second thing is sometimes it is natural you
06:26know we always talk about nipo babies and things like that uh is is a nipo baby perhaps but the thing
06:32is is you know i don't blame her this is how this is natural this is normal you have your father in
06:38position and he has all the network in the world he passed down his not just credentials and credibility
06:46but perhaps over the years he trained you as well so this is nothing you're not just in malaysian
06:52politics you know you can see all over the world right you know the best i can think of at the top
06:57of my mind i josh bush josh hw bush you know berklington so it's always there we don't say that it runs
07:03in the family but it's just natural but the thing is we want to go into politics you just have to be
07:09strategic about it um so we don't say that so i said we don't say i cannot uh come and become number
07:16two but is this the right time for you to do it um so that is the question okay well you mentioned um
07:22pkr and its reformist roots right but what the party is currently is this really is is in a kind
07:30of precarious position it sits very uncomfortably trying to unify the unity government and also trying
07:36to stand for reform you know it's not quite um this tension i'm wondering whether you see this tension
07:44um straining the party uh whether it's reflected in the internal discomfort or internal discontent and
07:52where do you see pkr today and where do you see it heading
07:57this is a very difficult one um you know it's easy for me to answer about internal division because
08:03i think that we can definitely see um the best example of course we can just look at rafizi as a
08:10person as a person as a leader himself right it's been a very difficult journey for him the past few
08:15years knowing what he have done how he came about and that the kind of relationship that we have in
08:21unity government today so it has been difficult and it's not just rafizi of course i'm thinking of all
08:27pkr members um that are not fully comfortable but you know they support this uh this out of convenience
08:35and for the sake of you know being in power and whatnot so there's definitely tension but the
08:42thing is where pkr shall go from here that is the bigger question is it really um because there's that
08:50that that that duality that you need to think of again if they continue with this relationship
08:55if i'm not this close relationship there's a better chance for them to stay in power to be in power and
09:01in power you can do a lot of the things that you've been talking about reforms and everything else
09:08but it would be it would not be at the pace that you want um but if you're not happy with that
09:13relationship for various reasons that maybe it's out of the topic today uh then you'll be in the
09:18opposition what can you do then you can go back to what you were 20 years ago you know you can just
09:25scream and shout and do all the things that perhaps pkr is good at but would that lead to
09:32the changes that you really want to see so this is a difficult question uh that i think pkr has to
09:39figure out uh so it's very great at this at this moment these party elections are really important
09:45because i think it sets the tone as to what um we can expect from pkr headed into ge16 now you've
09:53been watching this party what what what kind of leadership do you think pkr needs at its helm as
10:02it heads into um preparations of the war room for ge16 you know the thing that that that that came to
10:10my mind is that even before um pkr or let's say pakistan harapan even had this um marriage of
10:19convenience with umno and barisan national ph itself still came out on top uh meaning that what i'm
10:26trying to say is that there are a lot of voters out there that want to see uh the idealism that uh pkr and
10:36ph claims to be fighting for so if you talk about what they should think of going into ge16 maybe they
10:44should remember that i think they've kind of lost that vision because like i said earlier for the sake
10:50of okay at least now we empower how do we continue but they have to remember who they are in the sense
10:57that people voted them because of those ideals those vision those reform promises so back to her the
11:06kind of leadership they need they need this kind of brave leader that can really uh bring back pkr
11:14back to its root in the sense that do not be afraid do not cower for the sake of i don't know
11:20opportunities um but really stand your ground for for for what you really stand for do they have that
11:27leader i think they do but is that the leader that they're going to vote for we don't know okay dr
11:32shazza that was quite cryptic at the end thank you so much for joining me on the show that was dr
11:37shazza shukri from iium we're going to take a quick break here and consider this we'll be back with more
11:43stay tuned
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