00:00Personally, with the families, to offer our apologies for their loss, the tragic loss
00:15of Katie and William and to apologise for the failures of the past and to ensure that
00:22they understand we are committed and determined to not only action the recommendations that
00:31we have accepted in full, but to ensure that there is systemic change across the organisation
00:39which will be impactful and lasting. Thank you.
00:43This is a statement following the meetings of the families of Katie Allen and William
00:46Lindsay with the Chief Executive Officer of the Scottish Prison Service, Theresa Medhurst
00:51and the Deputy CEO, Linda Pollock. Today we met with the heads of the Scottish Prison
00:55Service. At the start of the meeting I said to the CEO that their apologies were too little
01:00and too late. Since 1995, 48 prisoners under the age of 21 at Polmont have died. 90% of
01:09those 48 died by suicide and all but one was from hanging. Where are the apologies for
01:15all those families? For decades those families were lied to and were told the suicides were
01:20inevitable. Let me be clear, there is nothing inevitable about suicide. For seven years
01:26Katie and William's families have been demonised. They never wanted to be campaigners. Today
01:32there was no sense of vindication, just sadness because nothing will bring back William and
01:36Katie. But it was about ensuring young people are not treated in the same way again. The
01:41meeting was robust and painful but it was also a positive one and welcomed by the families.
01:46I hope no other family has to set up campaigns to drag the SBS through the courts to get
01:51to the truth. The families are grateful to the CEO and her Prison Service's response
01:56to the FAI but they want immediate action and accountability. Mrs Medhurst, the CEO,
02:01said that what the family said today hit home and she is determined to deliver change. It
02:06is important to note also that Theresa Medhurst, the CEO of the Scottish Prison Service, agreed
02:12with us that crown immunity from prosecution should be abolished. That of course is now
02:17a matter for the UK Government to deliver on but when you have a situation where the
02:21Scottish Prison Service agrees with the lifting of crown immunity, where the Scottish Government
02:25and every opposition party in the Scottish Parliament agrees with the lifting of crown
02:28immunity, the question really is now for the UK Government to deliver on that. I'm going
02:32to ask John Riley, William's brother, to speak. So hopefully after seven years now we get
02:37some answers and we can put a stop to this and save the rest of the people out there
02:42who actually come into these places and just make it a safe space for our people. Very
02:47positive, honest and robust response today and their honesty and their obvious willingness
02:55to see change, mostly cultural change which is a very, very difficult thing to change.
03:03Their willingness to listen to families in the future, to engage with us. For the first
03:10time I think we didn't feel demonised by the Prison Service but we felt listened to and
03:17we found that very restorative. It took seven years for ligature points to be removed. That
03:24was something that was rigged seven years ago, six years ago, five years ago, four years.
03:28It took a screwdriver to do the job within five minutes. Now we said to Teresa Meadows
03:34there is a culture, there's a problem within the Prison Service that refuses, that exists
03:39in a culture of denial. It gaslights the families. As we said today, there's 28 families that
03:44we're representing presently. There shouldn't be any other family that has to set up a campaign.
03:48It took them seven years to come here to have the meeting with the family. It's accepted,
03:52it was positive, it was robust but much more needs to change and that culture doesn't just
03:57start from the top. It works all its way down to the bottom and it was recognised as
04:01well by the families that there are prison officers who are good prison officers trying
04:04to do a difficult job. There are whistleblowers regularly in contact with us telling us what's
04:09happening actually on the front line and this isn't just about Polmont. Let's be clear,
04:13this is not just about Polmont. It's about prisoners who are vulnerable, placed in vulnerable
04:18situations. Prisoners have a duty of care to prisoners right across Scotland. It's not
04:24a case of lock them up, throw away the key and who cares what happens to them. They also
04:28have lives. They have a right to be respected and they have families whose lives are left
04:31shattered when they take their own lives. I think today was the beginning of a dialogue
04:38which is a complete reversal from what we've experienced over the last seven years. I think
04:45we were seen as partners that could help change things as opposed to the enemy that was criticising.
04:52Chief Constable Ian Livingstone said to me a few years ago, how can it be that his service
04:57could be prosecuted but the prison service that can lock people up for 24 hours, seven
05:02days a week can't be prosecuted. That has allowed them to get away with state sanctioned
05:06murder, that has to stop. Admitted they've made mistakes, they've accepted responsibility,
05:11they've accepted liability. That's huge. They've never done that before. They have gaslighted
05:16families, including these families. They've demonised them, they've called them liars,
05:20they've said wait for the FAI, we've had the FAI. They've got no choice now but to
05:25change.
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