00:00Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lubas, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes, joining me now
00:08is Congressman Seth Moulton, a member of the Four Country Caucus. Congressman, I appreciate
00:12you coming in.
00:13Good to be here. Thanks for having me.
00:16I want to talk with you because I've talked to other of your colleagues about some of
00:19the impacts of Elon Musk's doge cuts, specifically to USAID, and we're seeing that in this story
00:26we're going to talk about today. Earlier this month, over 80 female students from Afghanistan
00:31faced what they've reportedly called a, quote, life or death situation after their scholarships
00:36to Stanje Rod, which were funded by USAID, were canceled and they would have to return
00:41to Afghanistan. Your office is saying that the State Department extended their scholarships
00:46through June 30th, but obviously that's not a full extension. What do you make of this
00:51situation? To start off the conversation, was it preventable?
00:54It's absolutely preventable. I mean, Elon Musk has no idea what he's doing. And obviously
00:59there's a lot of dissension between Musk and Rubio here because Rubio at least has some
01:04idea of the impact that these programs have. But the bottom line is that USAID saves lives.
01:11USAID, I saw on the ground in Iraq saving American lives when it was a huge tool that
01:18American troops like myself used to win over the Iraqi population. So this is an incredibly
01:24important program for our national security. It's not just about doing good around the
01:28world. Oh, there's a good argument for that as well. And in the case of these Afghan girls,
01:32I mean, these are brave, brave women, truly brave, revolting against these Taliban masters
01:40who would have them be subservient in homes for the rest of their lives, hiding under
01:44veils never to even have their faces be seen. They're actually pursuing an education, something
01:50that American troops on the ground made possible. And it could be a death sentence to have them
01:55sent back to Afghanistan.
01:57Congressman, you're a veteran. You're in the Four Country Caucus, which is made up of other
02:01lawmakers, bipartisan group who are lawmakers who served in Iraq as well as Afghanistan.
02:07You said that when you were in Iraq, you saw USAID save lives firsthand. So what's missing
02:13here from the conversation?
02:14What's missing here is accountability. It's the Republican Congress just fulfilling its
02:19constitutional responsibility to put a check on the executive because the rules of the
02:25Constitution are that Congress controls the purse. So if institutions like USAID that
02:30Congress has funded are to be cut, Congress has to vote. Congress has to have a say. And
02:37I know from talking to my Republican colleagues behind the scenes that they would not support
02:42Elon Musk's taking a chainsaw to the United States government. But they're not standing
02:47up. They're not putting a check on the administration, which is their responsibility to do. And for
02:52all the rest of us in Congress who who don't have the power of the majority, you know,
02:56we don't control the speakership. We can't call votes ourselves. It's extraordinarily
03:01frustrating that we are not allowed to do our constitutional duty as well.
03:07You mentioned earlier in the conversation that this also hosts some national security
03:11concerns. What are yours?
03:14I have a long list of national security concerns with this administration, starting with the
03:19fact that they are cozying up to our biggest enemies around the globe, being soft on China,
03:26being appeasing Vladimir Putin. I mean, you literally using Kremlin talking points as
03:33they denounce our ally Ukraine fighting for its freedom in the Oval Office. I mean, this
03:38is truly unprecedented. And these Afghans that we are trying to rescue from the Taliban's
03:45draconian rule, there are allies as well. In many cases, thousands of of of Afghan troops,
03:53soldiers, translators who served alongside us, brothers in arms. And remember, when Republicans
04:00were so quick to criticize the Biden administration for the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan,
04:05they used that same term, brothers in arms. Well, now these brothers in arms are being
04:10abandoned by the Trump administration, abandoned to a regime that wants them dead. That's not
04:16the way you treat allies. That's not the way you treat people who put their lives on the
04:20line, not just on not just for Afghanistan, but for the United States of America.
04:26You mentioned the summer of 2021. There was widespread criticism of the really chaotic
04:31withdrawal from Afghanistan. There was criticism, as you said, that we were abandoning our
04:36partners in Afghanistan. Is this a case of us again abandoning our Afghan partners? And
04:42what can Congress do about it? Let's be clear. These women are going to school because of
04:47America. We're the ones who said girls and women, you should go to school, too. It's
04:53the right position, but it's because of our presence in Afghanistan that they were inspired
04:57to do so. So, yeah, we are turning our back on our allies when we then abandon them, when
05:03they try to try to get an education and seek some freedom from the crony and Taliban rule.
05:09So we do have to stand up for them. And what I've heard is that the Trump administration
05:13is now working on another travel ban, even more expansive than the travel ban from Trump's
05:19first term. And he's going to include Afghanistan on the list. That means that our friends and
05:25allies who served alongside us, who veterans like myself have been working for years to
05:30rescue from the Taliban, are going to be shut out and many of them will be killed.
05:35Well, Maker, as a member of Congress, how imminently are you expecting to see that travel
05:42ban that's even more, as you said, expansive than his first term's travel ban?
05:47I don't know. But the irony is that when Trump goes around and bans people from coming to
05:51America from countries like Afghanistan, Iran, Yemen, he's banning the people who are our allies.
05:59It's people who leave these evil regimes that want to be on our side. That's why they're getting
06:04persecuted. That's why they have to give up everything they have back home to come to a
06:09free country like the United States of America. Donald Trump just doesn't get this. Remember,
06:14he dodged the draft to avoid serving in Vietnam. So he's never been on the ground in a war. He's
06:19never had to ask local allies for help, for help understanding the population, for standing
06:25alongside him in a gunfight. He's never understood what it means to be a refugee, to be someone who's
06:31trying to escape an evil regime and come to a country like America. So the Trump administration
06:38just doesn't get this. And what's most frustrating is that veterans, veterans who have served our
06:43country honorably and understand how important it is to save these allies, they're not standing up
06:48to the Trump administration. You've got a lot of Republican veterans serving in the White House.
06:53You've got Republican veterans in Congress who are privately decrying what Trump is doing, and yet
06:58they're so scared. They're so scared of Donald Trump, this draft dodger, that they won't say
07:03anything publicly. That is shameful. Why do you think that is? Because I've talked with some
07:08members of the four country caucus, Democrats and Republicans alike. They've said privately they can
07:13have fun with each other, also talk and make and try to come up with bipartisan
07:19legislation here. What are those conversations like in the four country caucus? And are you
07:23speaking about those members of Congress when you say privately they say one thing about President
07:28Trump and publicly they say another? When I talk about Republicans who privately say one thing
07:34about Donald Trump and publicly say another, I'm talking about the majority of Republicans in
07:39Congress, because they know that so much of what Musk and Trump are doing is unconstitutional.
07:47It's against the law, and it's certainly against the will of Congress, and yet they're just so
07:52scared of Donald Trump. I don't know. They're so scared of losing their jobs, getting primaried by
07:56him, having Musk put in a ton of money, that they're afraid to speak up. This really is starting
08:01to look like a dictatorship, an authoritarian regime where political dissent is not allowed.
08:08It's time for some political courage among Republicans to just say publicly what they're
08:13saying privately and what they know is the right thing to do. What do you think about political
08:18courage when it comes to your own party? Because last week you said you voted against the continuing
08:23resolution to put some pressure on Elon Musk. We're talking about USAID cuts that were because
08:29of Doge, and Elon Musk is the face of Doge. Do you think that Democrats who voted for the continuing
08:35resolution, do you think they aren't doing enough to put pressure on Elon Musk and the administration?
08:40Look, I personally disagree with that vote. Someone asked me recently,
08:44if you were in the Senate, Seth, how would you have voted? And the answer is very simple. I would
08:49have voted exactly the same way that I voted in the House on exactly the same bill, which is no.
08:55Now, you're talking to someone who's been willing to cross party lines to vote to keep government
09:01open in the past, including many times when it meant bailing out Republicans from their own
09:06extremists who wanted to shut the government down. But this is a different time. We need to do our
09:12duty in Congress and we have very few levers against this administration and the chainsaw
09:17that Musk and Trump is taking to this government. So we've got to stand up and this is a place where
09:23we can hold our ground. I disagree with Schumer and the Democrats who voted with the Republicans
09:28to bail them out. Their argument would be that then that chainsaw could run more rampant if the
09:34government was shut down. Was the government shutting down? Then would you rather see that?
09:40I never want to see the government shut down. But if that's what we need to do to force a
09:44negotiation with Republicans, because eventually, you know, they're in charge. Trump is in the White
09:50House. Republicans control the Senate in the House. They're responsible for keeping government
09:54open. So it would have forced a negotiation. And you know what? We might not have gotten much,
09:59but maybe we would have gotten something. And that matters right now when so many lives,
10:05so many jobs, and frankly, just the American economy is on the line with what Donald Trump is
10:12doing. I have you just for one more question. As you noted, Donald Trump is in the White House
10:19and the women, these Afghan women reportedly wrote a letter to aid groups saying, quote,
10:24we have fought very hard to get out of their hands. We won't be living anymore if we have to
10:28go back to Afghanistan. I know there's there is good news. The State Department said that their
10:33scholarship was extended to June 30th. But what is your message to the Trump administration here
10:38when it comes to this situation? My message to the Trump administration is don't abandon our allies
10:44and don't abandon the veterans in America, Democrats and Republicans who are fighting
10:50to save our friends. Congressman Seth Moulton, I appreciate the conversation.
10:55You are welcome back anytime. Thanks very much for having me.
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