- 9 months ago
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馃憠 La estafa de Winans, liderada por Alejandro Musac, ha sido calificada como el fraude financiero m谩s grande en la historia de Argentina, superando incluso a casos medi谩ticos como el de Enrique Blaksley. Con un entramado que involucra a famosos y conexiones internacionales, esta operaci贸n fraudulenta afect贸 a 15 mil personas y gener贸 p茅rdidas por 300 millones de d贸lares. La justicia federal investiga el caso que tambi茅n tiene ramificaciones en Uruguay y Espa帽a. Mauricio Novelli, vinculado al esc谩ndalo cripto Libra, es otro nombre clave en esta red de enga帽os financieros.
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馃摵 a24.com/vivo
馃憠 Segu铆 en #ArrancaLaTardeEnA24
馃摵 a24.com/vivo
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NewsTranscript
00:00This story appears to be very famous, linked to this other story that we are going to highlight, which is the Winans scam.
00:07The Winans scam, which has a point of contact with the Libra scam of the famous cryptocurrency promoted or disseminated by President Milley,
00:16because a name appears, which is Noveli's, surely you remember Noveli, one of the key financial partners in the Libra scam,
00:25but it seems that Noveli was scamming before Libra and continues to scam after Libra.
00:31The head of Winans, Alejandro Moussac, in this way, invited to invest with them, listen to him.
00:39An online credit company from Argentina, it was founded in 2014, purely online, and today it has 75,000 active customers,
00:48with more than 1,000 million of administrated portfolio.
00:51Hello, I am Alejandro Moussac, CEO and founder of Winans. On June 6, I'll be waiting for you in La Ruedal, on New January.
00:57I'm going to tell you everything I know about the credit boom.
00:59How would you describe what you do?
01:01Winans basically aims at the underbanked public.
01:05The underbanked public is the one who has a bank account and charges their income in cash.
01:10Hello, I am Alejandro Moussac, CEO and founder of Winans. On June 6, I'll be waiting for you in La Ruedal.
01:14There is the head, the visible face of Moussac, there is a lot to deepen around this story,
01:20and there is obviously a link that ends up putting the magnifying glass on a character
01:27that was known in the Libragate, which is Mauricio Novelli, Marina.
01:30Yes, the framework of societies that connects Winans with Mauricio Novelli, there we are seeing it.
01:37Moussac, the head of this alleged scam, or of this scam, let's put it that way, is in prison.
01:43That man you just heard talking is in prison and will have to give explanations in justice,
01:50not only in Spain, in Uruguay, but also in Argentina.
01:54Dr. Alejandro Liporache is on the floor with us, who is a lawyer who represents a pool of victims.
02:01Look at the number of victims of the Winans scam.
02:0515,000 victims, a fraud of 300 million dollars.
02:11300 million dollars that started before Libra and continues after Libra.
02:18This is what we want to warn.
02:20Dr. Liporache, thank you for being here.
02:22We understand that in addition to being a lawyer of the pool of denunciants, you are also damaged by this fraud.
02:27Exactly. First of all, thank you very much for the space.
02:30There are thousands of victims who are watching the program right now.
02:34And it is important to clarify that we are talking about the biggest scam in the Argentine Republic,
02:39in the entire history of the country.
02:41The biggest scam?
02:42Absolutely.
02:43That is, more than Cositorto, more than Rainbow Exchange, more than all.
02:47Even bigger than one that had a lot of media coverage, which is that of Enrique Blacksley.
02:52Yes, of course.
02:53That was called the Argentine Madoff.
02:56The Argentine Madoff.
02:58The clarification is excellent, because here we are talking about something that can begin,
03:03or we are beginning to see that it has replicated the mechanics that Madoff used in the United States to scam people.
03:10This is a financial scam, doctor.
03:12100%.
03:13100%.
03:14And here there were also famous people in the promotion.
03:16We understand that there were famous people.
03:18We still cannot reveal the names because I want to explain.
03:20With responsibility?
03:22Not at the moment.
03:24What we have to understand is that there is a multiplicity of causes in the field,
03:30in the commercial field, in the penal forum, and today the Federal Penal Justice,
03:35under the jurisdiction of Dr. Sandra Arroyo Salgado, the federal judge number one of San Isidro,
03:39is understanding in the cause, because from the ordinary criminal justice,
03:44they directly transferred the experience.
03:46But why did it go to the federal justice and not the ordinary?
03:48First, it was processed in the ordinary justice, and now it is being investigated in asset laundering.
03:52Ah, for laundering.
03:54For laundering.
03:55For asset laundering because the scam has a transnational character.
03:59It was executed in Argentina, Uruguay, Mexico and Spain.
04:04Moussac is in prison.
04:06Moussac is in prison.
04:07Who is this Moussac?
04:08Alejandro Moussac is a person who starts his financial business in San Isidro,
04:14in the northern area of the province of Buenos Aires.
04:17A person who even led his company to be in the Argentine Chamber of FinTech.
04:22The Argentine Chamber of FinTech realizes that this is an absolute mess.
04:25Clearly, he takes out the membership.
04:27And he is a person who has connected with many people,
04:32even international funds that have invested in his business,
04:36and has been linked to companies that are regulated by the National Commission of Values.
04:41In other words, the business that he structured with Fideicomisos,
04:44the fiduciary is regulated by the CNB.
04:46How was the scam, doctor?
04:47Of course, that.
04:48How was the operation?
04:49How were investors caught?
04:51Lawyers have the need to bring this down so that people understand it.
04:55Moussac's business was to lend money, micro-credits,
04:59to people who, for example, bought a cell phone and paid very high rates.
05:03Maybe in a cell phone of 100,000 pesos he paid a rate of 200%.
05:07Usury.
05:08Absolutely.
05:09With that loan, what he needed was to fund himself.
05:12Fund credit.
05:14For that he looked for investors.
05:15As he could not fund himself because it was a FinTech,
05:18and FinTechs are fined by the Central Bank of the Argentine Republic to fund themselves,
05:23he created a subsidiary framework through which he generated money.
05:27There he funded and could continue to lend.
05:30And the investor to whom he asked for that money,
05:32or the one who put that money that he used to fund the usury credits,
05:36how did he cope with that?
05:38What benefit did he offer?
05:40Well, the benefit was, first, high rates.
05:43In other words, if you lend at a high rate, you will clearly be able to pay your investors high rates.
05:47And when he says high rates?
05:48And high rates, several points above inflation.
05:51The big problem ...
05:52Or did he offer the 7, as Cositorto did?
05:55Maybe a little less, but in those numbers.
05:58The big problem is that we are always going to be talking about
06:01that there should have been variable rates and the income he paid was fixed.
06:06What is the link, sorry Horacio, with Novelli?
06:09I'm sorry, did Moussac also know the president or was there no political link here?
06:14We understand that there was no political link.
06:15And what is the link with Novelli?
06:16Novelli was an employee of Big Capital Investments,
06:19which was a company through which Moussac employed people.
06:22And only an employee, or is there also some kind of role?
06:25This is up to me, doctor.
06:27Was Novelli a disciple of Moussac?
06:30All those who at some point were part of the Wenans scheme,
06:33end up being disciples of Wenans.
06:35And all these characters are always surrounded,
06:38generally, by heavy people, depending on those who fulfill, right?
06:43Absolutely.
06:44It is a very good clarification.
06:46In fact, Moussac had problems with a bar of a club,
06:49of which I do not know and I do not want to go ahead,
06:51but some who have asked him in a rather violent way,
06:55the return of the money.
06:56What impacts me, going back to the link with Novelli,
06:59is that Novelli is one of the heads of the Libra crypto scam.
07:02And all this, all this research, all this that you come to tell us today,
07:07is prior.
07:08It already existed at the time of the Libra crypto scam.
07:12And I ask you, are they still operating today?
07:15Not all, some.
07:16Some are still operating.
07:18Justice ...
07:19Let's see, here is a reality,
07:21and it is something that I take advantage of the space to say it.
07:24Here is a determining role that the Ministry of Justice of the Nation has to occupy
07:28to replicate something that the United States did.
07:32And it is to focus on the restitution of funds
07:35and precisely avoid any type of business proliferation.
07:38In the United States, with the Madoff scam,
07:41a particular fund is created, administered by the DOJ,
07:44which is the US Department of Justice,
07:46which is a clear example that the thing works.
07:49They recovered 95% of the funds collected by Madoff.
07:52The funds are.
07:53Absolutely.
07:54Now, doctor, when is it considered a scam?
07:57Because until now, everything you explain,
07:59I mean, it gives the feeling as it is.
08:02Contracts between privates,
08:04interest payment promises,
08:07I mean, and in any case,
08:09in a private contract and an investment,
08:11you know it can go well,
08:13as well as it can go wrong.
08:15At what point is it considered a scam?
08:18The scam is configured when there is an ardor
08:20or some dissimulation of the truth
08:22to try to get the person into the business.
08:25Convince.
08:26Absolutely.
08:27Here people are convinced.
08:29And there is a difference between the business not working
08:32to co-opt funds in a fraudulent way.
08:35The scam is in the co-optation
08:37and in the indebted retention of the funds.
08:39And asset laundering is configured when,
08:42once one commits the crime or the crime,
08:45injects those funds into an autonomous business.
08:49And this is pyramidal,
08:50that is, funds were co-opted to pay
08:53the interests committed to those who had put it first.
08:56It would be something like Cositorto,
08:59to locate people and also a little
09:01answer Horacio Cositorto, 12 years.
09:04Exactly.
09:05First we are talking about a much larger volume of money.
09:08More than Cositorto.
09:09More.
09:10How many times more?
09:11And I would say that the scam of Cositorto
09:13is calculated more or less in 30 to 40 million dollars.
09:1530, yes, 10.
09:16We are talking about 300 million dollars
09:18and the transnational character gives it a much stronger figure.
09:22Dollar value or euro, right?
09:24Absolutely, dollar value.
09:25Now, answering your question,
09:28I think there is a reality
09:33and that is that asset laundering,
09:35if there is an intervention of justice
09:37and an action in conjunction with politics,
09:40can be followed.
09:41There clearly has to be international cooperation,
09:43but there is a way to follow.
09:44Doctor, was there money in politics here?
09:47We understand that yes.
09:49Is that identified or is it still in exploration?
09:53We have the data, I do not want to mention it,
09:56because it is subject to analysis by the federal justice,
10:00that a municipality that invested,
10:02we do not know if in compliance or not
10:04with the provisions of the Council of Liberals ...
10:06Excuse me, excuse me.
10:07A municipality invested and was the victim of the pyramid scam,
10:11which obviously they will never recognize,
10:13with which it is feasible that all the investment is so irregular.
10:17Or it was part of it.
10:19Or it was part of it.
10:20The information we have at the moment is that it invested
10:23and was able to withdraw part of the funds
10:25before the scam was consumed in July 2003.
10:28Inevitably, let's say ...
10:30You had privileged information.
10:32No, no.
10:33Excuse me.
10:34What madness are we talking about,
10:36that in a scam of these characteristics,
10:38politics appears involved?
10:40As it is.
10:41Well, does it need the shelter of politics, of power,
10:44let's say, to make this kind of scams?
10:46Or can it be done independently?
10:49I believe that at the moment
10:51in which one proliferates knowledge
10:54or the capture of investments,
10:56I think they need a bit of a political framework to be able to act.
10:59Now, I also think of the mayor
11:01or the one who puts the signature
11:03to put the municipality's debt,
11:05which is the debt of the building owners,
11:07of the neighbors,
11:08in a fraudulent scheme
11:10from the origin that pays you,
11:12interests that do not exist.
11:13And I also think
11:14if he was going to liquidate the usufruct from the neighbors.
11:17Clearly not.
11:18Someone is going to stay
11:19or someone already stayed with the difference.
11:21Exactly.
11:22And here reality
11:23It's a scandal.
11:24And we are revealing,
11:25as the federal justice begins to advance,
11:27Musa, who is in prison
11:29in the framework of the ordinary cause, for fraud.
11:31Musa, who is in prison in Dolores, right?
11:32Where? Dolores.
11:33Is the lieutenant a criminal, doctor?
11:35Don't laugh, we're ...
11:36No.
11:37Ah, ah, ah, ah.
11:38I can imagine.
11:39Uy, then he tells us in private.
11:41Well, thank you, doctor, for coming.
11:43We are very shocked
11:44because one of the responsible
11:46of the free fraud
11:48operated from before,
11:49is investigated from before
11:51and there are a lot of data.
11:53You can't reveal which municipality it is?
11:55No.
11:56No, because it is subject to criminal investigation.
11:58It's in the north.
11:59It's in the north, doctor.
12:00North of the province of Buenos Aires.
12:01Yes, of course.
12:03Ezequiel, can you reveal it?
12:05The doctor has to reveal it.
12:06No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
12:07But the doctor can, because he is ...
12:08No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
12:09Of course.
12:10When I have the papers, I'll tell you, but ...
12:11Perfect.
12:12That will be subject to the revelation of the cause.
12:13Perfect.
12:14Thank you, doctor, for coming.
12:15Please.
12:16Thank you very much.
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