00:00Today at Outlook, we have got with us Baramulla MP, Engineer Rashid with us. We will be talking
00:04about his jail period, politics and elections in Kashmir. So, Engineer sahib, tell us about,
00:12exactly five and a half years ago, I had interviewed you while I was in the paper.
00:16In this room only.
00:17In this room only. So, tell us about when did this news about Article 370 abrogation
00:24reach out to you and how did you feel at that moment?
00:27The fact is Prime Minister Modi had invited me to his residence on 17th of July 2018
00:41and he had one and a half hour meeting with me. It was an informal chat. He talked on all things
00:50but in between I could smell that he wanted to abrogate Article 370.
00:54This was a month before?
00:56No sir, one year before. I think they were planning to abrogate it before 2019.
01:02Parliament elections. I said whatever good things to do I will support
01:06and wherever I feel it is against the interest of Kashmiris, I am against you, I will resist.
01:14And on that very day, the foundation stone for my arrest was laid. There were rumours
01:20something big is going to happen but no one knew what will happen. Then slowly things started
01:26getting exposed in the scenario and people started talking about Article 370
01:32abrogation. Then if you remember Farooq Abdullah said his three MPs will meet Prime Minister and
01:40ask him that don't do it or what is the case. When he came back,
01:44the memory of the people unfortunately very short. When he came back, it wasn't
01:501st of August. He said that no sort of such a thing is going to happen.
01:54He will not abrogate Article 370. PM has assured us.
01:58And three days later, Article 370 was abrogated.
02:01What is Tihar like?
02:02Tihar is like a hell on earth. 100 days in hell means one day in Tihar. I am not exaggerating.
02:13When you meet your family, screens are there, you can't send a letter there. If you are a
02:20Kashmiri, you face discrimination. There are good options. But better for me to not speak much
02:29about it because I have to go there. If God listens to my voice and my bail is on 5th, if I get the
02:39bail then I can give you stories which would be behind your imagination. My aunt died. I came
02:48to know after four days. I was denied a payroll. I saw Altaf Pantosh who was in my cell for two and
02:55a half years. We had never met outside.
03:02Why is everybody calling him Sayyid Al-Shaykh Gilani? I think he had his own reputation.
03:11I got, yes you are right. But I always had grudges with him also.
03:16And I would always, because people, you understand each other when you spend good time.
03:22I would tell him that where is your identity? He has been in jail more than Gilani Sahib.
03:28Anyway, I was the man who took him on the wheelchair. Trust me, I am not lying.
03:36At the gate of Tihar jail, when we sent him to hospital, I had to fight for that with the jail
03:42authorities to ensure that he is taken to hospital. And the last words which he said,
03:48that Engineer Sahib, meri lash mere ghar pohucha dena. I told him, aapko kya ho gaya? Aap toh
03:53theek ho. Kaha nahi nahi, mujhe cancer hai, mujhe samjha raha hai. Four days later,
04:00he was diagnosed with cancer. He was my political rival. But a great, nice human being, humble,
04:08down to earth. He would, the cell is, the cell would be eight foot by eight feet and we were
04:14two people there. And he would make every day tea for, we were four people in the cell. One
04:20Abdul Majid Baba from Sopore, another Fayyaz Abdul Malouman from Kupara. But Altaf Sahib would make
04:26namkeen tea, salt tea for all of us. He would force us, no, no, I will prepare the tea.
04:32And then he died in hospital. You know it. He was buried in the darkness of the night.
04:42But no TV channel reported. No media went to his house. And last thing what happened with me,
04:48the communication which was made with me, and I am telling you the authority. On 18th of January,
04:552024, I was forced, persuaded, compelled, begged to support Sajjad Lone in the Parliament elections.
05:08They had started that story few, four, five months back. But on 18th of January,
05:14they got a categorical answer, this man is not going to do it. And that day at 9.45 pm,
05:22I was taken from the cell at 9.45 and put in the ward with mentally retarded person and physically
05:29challenged person. There was made an announcement in the jail that nobody will talk to him. Nobody
05:35will meet him. Not even a single Kashmiri would dare talk to me. For those two months, just one
05:40man, a Sardar from Jammu. What he would do, there would be cameras everywhere, except in bathrooms.
05:48The bathroom complex was outside. It had two sets of bathrooms. Then we will signal each other. He
05:57would go in the bathroom and visit that side up, a room from that side. And I will visit the room
06:06from this side. And then we will start talking for two or three minutes. And this was the communication.
06:12And then what he would do, after three or four days, he would give five minutes from his,
06:17he will give two minutes from his five-minute call. But even God will not know he is communicating
06:25something about me to his family. And it was only communication, his wife and his family would send
06:32that message to my brother. And my brother, they would not even dare to talk directly to my brother.
06:38My brother had to visit Jammu, Nanak Nagar or some other place, two to three times
06:42to his family to receive the message, which I would say in two minutes.
06:47Are you getting to my point? My mulaqat with the family was evident.
06:52I was debarred from leaving the ward. My life was so miserable that even worst enemies of mine would
07:01feel pity for me.
07:31They are saying, you know, in their circles.
07:33Absolutely.
07:34Tell me one thing.
07:36How would you react to this?
07:37People have already slapped them and exposed them in Dara Khashmiyat.
07:41Okay.
07:41One, when Article 370 was abrogated, Farooq Abdullah, Umar Abdullah, Mahbuba Mufti, Sajjadul,
07:49I have already said to you, they were enjoying all the privileges.
07:53I don't want to belittle myself by responding to this question.
08:01It's a very important question.
08:31So do they mean that I was a traitor when I was in jail for five and a half years?
08:40Shame on them if they answer such questions.
08:42But how dare they to ask these questions?
08:44At least they should have some morality.
08:47My conscience said to me that I should not respond to this question.
08:51They will accuse Hurriyat of giving protest calendars.
09:06So now tell me, what did they do for the return of Article 370 in five and a half years?
09:12In five and a half years, every minute of mine was for Article 370.
09:15Why?
09:16Because I was in jail, my everyday was in jail, theirs was not.
09:21Maybe you can put a question.
09:26The question is, their argument is that Engineer Sahib was having allegations of this terror funding.
09:34So why should Umar go to jail?
09:35Why should Mehbooba go to jail?
09:37Because there is no case of terror funding on them.
09:40So this is their argument.
10:05You mean almost every credible journalist.
10:11You should have had so much courage.
10:14Does not mean you personally, sorry.
10:17They say so much about Umar, it is fine.
10:20When Umar was put in SKICC, Shah Faisal, Mahbub Mufti, Farooqullah,
10:26what was put on them?
10:27Public Safety Act.
10:29Have you read that dozer which was against the government?
10:32What was written in it?
10:34What were the charges?
10:35Speech.
10:36With the Chinese agent.
10:39You must have read my charge sheet.
10:40I have a charge against Ayub Pintas, the poor guy who got lynched.
10:48The boys who were in it, I spoke about their opinion.
10:50This is a big charge.
10:52The boys who were in jail, they were also released.
10:55But Engineer Sahib is still in jail.
10:57I have a charge against him.
10:58I protested on the day of Abdul Guru when he was hanged.
11:01I don't want to speak on the merits of the charge.
11:04It is the court's responsibility.
11:06Umar Iblis has become the contractor of Abdul Guru.
11:09If speaking about Abdul Guru is a crime, then Umar Iblis will be in jail.
11:13And when you say that he did not do anything wrong.
11:15In 1975, who was carrying a gun with Magul Bhatt in Pakistan?
11:23Farooq Abdullah.
11:24Now leave that there.
11:26When you read his dozer, of Public Safety Act,
11:29there are more than 100 quintals of charges against him.
11:33What happened to those charges?
11:34They were revoked.
11:36So now the agent is the one whose charges were revoked.
11:39Or the agent is the one who got an entry bail of 15 days.
11:42And is worried when he will go back.
11:44And if anything happens to my BJP, then if they release me 15 days earlier,
11:49I would have defeated the NC of Kashmir Valley by 47 seats.
11:54I could not find even proper candidates.
11:56In two places, Mr. Khan and Zainab Hora.
12:01I had two candidates.
12:02Both of them would have won.
12:05Both of them were rejected.
12:07The reasons?
12:08The reasons, you can ask others.
12:11The reasons, they thought they won.
12:14So they were rejected.
12:15Now who is the traitor?
12:17I am the traitor.
12:18He was in Pulwazar Security.
12:20I am holding his hand and telling the police not to come in front of my house.
12:23There is no wire here.
12:25I am insisting that you check my phone.
12:27I don't need your security.
12:29If I am an anti-national, why are you providing me security?
12:32And the BJP has put a few gypsies behind me so that they can say that someone from Kashmir has joined hands with the BJP.
12:38For me, this has happened.
12:40For me, this has happened.
12:42Zahid thought I was a kafir.
12:44A kafir thinks he is a Muslim.
12:48But I don't need their lessons.
12:50Hell with them.
12:52Consciously, you are bashing regional parties in Kashmir.
12:56You don't have been that much aggressive against BJP.
13:00Is it a conscious, tactical decision you are taking?
13:04You are going harsh on regional parties in Kashmir.
13:10First tell me one thing.
13:12Why don't you do honest journalism?
13:14How are the regional parties?
13:16They are extensions of NDA.
13:18And the so-called India Alliance.
13:22Have they any regional character?
13:24Had they been really regional parties,
13:26then they would have been like Mamata Banerjee,
13:28like Sital Hain,
13:30like Shabo Sohrain,
13:32or like Nitish Kumar.
13:34The world may call him Paltu Ram,
13:36but he has beaten Modi and the India Alliance a hundred times.
13:40If he beats for himself, he beats for the people.
13:42Poor Umar Ullah says today,
13:44I was told at 2 in the morning.
13:46At 2 in the evening,
13:48he could have given his resignation.
13:50Are they regional parties?
13:52Are they regional parties?
13:54No, they are not.
13:56These poor people are servants
13:58of Modi and Rahul Gandhi's kitchen.
14:00Tell me more.
14:02But you are sort of,
14:04you have been, what should I say,
14:06mellowed down on BJP in criticising.
14:08Tell me one thing.
14:10Tell me one thing that I didn't want to say.
14:12Tell me one thing that I didn't want to say.
14:14If tomorrow you are in a position to,
14:16you know, sort of,
14:18form the government,
14:20or you know, sort of support the government,
14:22so would you?
14:24Why should I support?
14:26I know, AIP may need a few more seats.
14:28Then I will take the support of BJP.
14:30You take this.
14:32You will take BJP?
14:34If Modi ji solves the issue of Kashmir permanently,
14:36then I have no issue.
14:38Okay.
14:40But our terms and conditions.
14:42Our new Kashmir is not his.
14:44So you are not, you know,
14:46sort of,
14:48you are not saying that we are
14:50keeping BJP out of the alliance.
14:52In a way, you are saying that we will
14:54ally with BJP.
14:56I don't say like this.
14:58I am telling you, if he resolves
15:00Kashmir issue,
15:02on the lines,
15:04not on my terms and conditions,
15:06in light of historic perspective,
15:08he will be remembered as a great hero.
15:10I have no issues.
15:12Anybody should not have.
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