Transgender woman wins landmark case against ‘female-only’ app

ABC NEWS (Australia)

Let's get more now on transgender woman Roxanne Tickle's landmark court win. Human rights law expert Paula Gerber says the decision will fill the trans community with joy.

Transcript

00:00Sally Grover, the CEO of Giggle for Girls app, which is an app designed for women only,

00:10she excluded Roxanne Tickle from being on the platform because she looked at a photo

00:15of Roxanne and determined that Roxanne Tickle was a man, that men were not allowed in the

00:21online space of Giggle for Girls and therefore she was removed from the site that she'd been

00:27part of for seven months.

00:28Okay, and so then what did the judge find today?

00:32The judge found that that amounted to discrimination under the Sex Discrimination Act, that Roxanne

00:38Tickle was a woman, her sex was a woman, her gender identity was a woman and that Sally

00:44Grover had violated the Sex Discrimination Act by looking at a photo and making a determination

00:52that Roxanne Tickle was not feminine enough to be part of the Giggle for Girls app.

00:57Much of the proceedings centred around what constitutes a woman under Australian law

01:03and whether someone's sex can be changed.

01:06What did it find in that area?

01:09It found that sex is not immutable, that sex can be changed, that when a child is born

01:14a doctor makes a presumption about what their sex is based on what they see before them

01:20and that is then designated as their sex on their birth certificate, but that is not fixed

01:25in time, that can be changed and Roxanne Tickle in 2017 changed her sex on her birth certificate

01:32a year after undergoing sex reassignment surgery.

01:35So according to the law and according to most of society, Roxanne Tickle's sex is female,

01:41she is a woman.

01:42Now this has been closely watched by many areas of society, particularly the trans cohort

01:50of society beyond this case and Roxanne Tickle.

01:53Well firstly I want to ask you what are the impacts for transgender women, the outcome

01:58of this case?

02:00Well this is a landmark decision that will fill the trans community with great joy because

02:05the court has unequivocally said that you cannot discriminate against someone on the

02:12basis of their gender identity, that you cannot look at a photo and say oh I don't accept

02:17that you're a woman, I'm going to exclude you from a woman only space.

02:20So it sends a clear message to society that they must respect the rights of trans women,

02:25that they are women and they enjoy equality and respect.

02:30So beyond this case, beyond the story of Roxanne Tickle here, where will the ramifications

02:36extend?

02:38Well the law is decided on the facts of this case, so there will be ramifications, but

02:45how far they go and into what areas exactly we don't know, but what we do know is we've

02:49got a clear ruling from the court that sex can be changed and that you cannot discriminate

02:55against someone on the basis of gender identity.

02:57Now someone else may decide down the track that they're going to discriminate against

03:02a trans woman or a trans man and that will have to be challenged in court again.

03:07But this case sets a precedent that will be very hard to overcome, unless of course it

03:12is appealed.

03:13Yeah, and do you expect there to be an appeal?

03:16Well Sally Grover's immediate response was the fight for women's rights continues.

03:22So how that is to be interpreted we don't know.

03:25Perhaps she's intending to appeal, perhaps she's intending to just contest the right

03:29of trans women to be recognised as women in other spaces.

03:33So as a result of this case, can the trans community feel confident that the Sex Discrimination

03:38Act covers them entirely?

03:41We know that there were changes to that Act just a little over a decade ago.

03:45That's right, there's a long history of discrimination against transgender people and it was only

03:50in 2013 that the Sex Discrimination Act was amended to unequivocally state that you cannot

03:57discriminate against someone on the basis of their gender identity.

04:00So it's been 11 years since those legislative changes were introduced and this is the first

04:06time it's been tested in court and obviously successfully as far as the trans community

04:10is concerned.

04:11So tell me this and you might not be able to answer it, if an app was say to market

04:16itself as being open to cisgender women and it didn't allow trans women on, would that

04:24be against the law?

04:26That would absolutely be a violation of the Sex Discrimination Act.

04:30You can't differentiate between women based on their gender identity.

04:34You can't preference cisgender women to the exclusion of transgender women.

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