Australia and Indonesia’s relationship deepens

ABC NEWS (Australia)

Australia and Indonesia have agreed to an upgraded defence cooperation agreement. The deal to be signed in Indonesia in coming days.

Transcript

00:00Look, at the moment we still don't have the text of the treaty, but we've got a pretty

00:06good idea of what's coming via Richard Miles, the Defence Minister.

00:10Now, what is this agreement?

00:11It is not a defence treaty in the traditional sense, like the treaty that Australia has,

00:16for example, with the United States.

00:18So there's no obligation in this agreement, for example, if either country is threatened

00:22for them to consult with one another to decide what to do next.

00:26This is nothing like that.

00:27This is basically a step which has been taken by both countries to streamline the way that

00:32their militaries operate in the other country.

00:35And that's going to make it easier for both Australia and Indonesia to send defence platforms

00:40in the other direction, for their personnel to come here and vice versa.

00:44And that will in time make it easier for both countries to engage in larger and more complex

00:50defence exercises more often.

00:52It will also make it easier for the two countries to engage in what's called intraoperability.

00:56In other words, the two navies or armies can operate together more smoothly and more

01:01effectively.

01:02Now, the Defence Minister Richard Miles is really talking up the significance of this

01:06agreement.

01:07He's said that it's the most significant agreement the two countries have ever signed.

01:11Let's take a listen to what he had to say speaking to afternoon briefing earlier today.

01:16This is not an alliance as such.

01:20I mean, Indonesia has a proud history of being non-aligned.

01:25But what this does represent is a much greater ease by which we cooperate with each other

01:30in terms of defence, as I've described.

01:32And I think in that deeper sense, what we can take from this is really a new level of

01:38strategic trust which exists between Australia and Indonesia.

01:41I mean, this is very much both countries saying to each other that we see our respective security

01:48as being embedded in each other.

01:50And that's, you know, when you think about the history of both our countries, the journey

01:54that we've been on over many decades, it's actually a historically profound moment to

01:58be at a point where we do see our security lie in each other.

02:02So historically profound is how the Defence Minister describes it.

02:06Prabowo Subianto, though, the Defence Minister and incoming president of Indonesia, who's

02:10been in Canberra for talks here today, was much less expansive.

02:13He only made a brief reference to the agreement in the remarks that they made immediately

02:17after their meeting.

02:19Let's take a listen to what he had to say.

02:22Good progress, great progress, may I say, in our defence cooperation agreement.

02:28We have ironed out some legalistic details, I think, in a very good outcome.

02:40So Stephen, is it really the most significant agreement that the two countries have ever

02:44signed as the Defence Minister referenced earlier today?

02:47Well, look, it's difficult to say for certain, and I guess these things are always a little

02:51bit subjective, but I've spoken to a few analysts today, people who really study the

02:56relationship closely, and they're not necessarily convinced that this upgraded agreement is

03:00truly the most significant agreement the two countries have ever signed.

03:04They point out that Paul Keating actually signed a security agreement in 1995 with Indonesia.

03:09That was more significant because it had some treaty-like elements to it.

03:13It had some strategic assurances that both countries gave one another.

03:17We've got nothing like that in this agreement, at least so far as we can tell.

03:22And now, of course, that agreement was torn up by Indonesia in 1999 during the Timor crisis.

03:28But even then, in 2006, there was the Lombok Treaty, which again was a really foundational

03:32document between the two countries.

03:34So people who study the relationship very closely say yes, this is a big deal, and yes,

03:39it's an important step.

03:40It formalises, in some senses, what's already happening with this really stepped-up defence

03:45cooperation and joint exercises between Indonesia and Australia.

03:49But they also say it's probably not fair to call it either historic or transformative.

03:54Because in the end, Indonesia remains non-aligned, and it's not going to draw itself into any

03:59sort of formal military alliance with the US, with Australia, or with anyone else.

04:04So given that, Stephen, what can we expect from Prabowo-Sibianto when it comes to foreign

04:09policy?

04:10Look, we'll have to wait and see.

04:12Perhaps the most interesting thing will be just how unpredictable Prabowo might be.

04:17That's probably going to be the main change.

04:19The current president, Joko Widodo, wasn't hugely or hasn't been hugely interested in

04:24foreign policy.

04:25Prabowo, most analysts think, is likely to put his stamp on foreign policy more.

04:30That might mean that there are more opportunities for countries like Australia, but also pitfalls

04:34if he decides to do things that people aren't expecting.

04:38So difficult to say, but overall, the underpinnings of Indonesian foreign policy and its non-alignment

04:44are not likely to change.

04:46Indonesia is going to continue to chart its own course.

04:49Australia's best hope is that it can reach an agreement with Indonesia over time that

04:53slowly draws it more close to Australia.

04:58But again, this is going to be a slow and difficult work with no immediate rewards close

05:04to hand.

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