- 2 years ago
Many can relate to the Yulo family drama. Dr. Anna Tuazon explains some of the cultural values at play such as “balato,” “utang na loob,” parental fealty, and the pressures of being the family breadwinner.
She shares what she has advised her own patients — the importance of listening to each other, respecting the choices of your children (“let them dream”), and knowing the boundaries of “utang na loob” (shouldn’t be transactional or demanded).
Doc Anna reminds us that Carlos Yulo reached the pinnacle of his sport despite the distractions and disadvantages. To do that required “mental gymnastics” and an inner strength.
She shares what she has advised her own patients — the importance of listening to each other, respecting the choices of your children (“let them dream”), and knowing the boundaries of “utang na loob” (shouldn’t be transactional or demanded).
Doc Anna reminds us that Carlos Yulo reached the pinnacle of his sport despite the distractions and disadvantages. To do that required “mental gymnastics” and an inner strength.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Magandang araw, Podmates! Howie Severino muli, na nagpapaalala na nakakatalino ang bahabang attention span.
00:08Carlos Yulo, the Philippines' double gold medalist at the Paris Olympics, is the man of the moment,
00:15bringing glory to the nation, but the glory has been mixed with a lot of gory details about family conflict.
00:23Conflict naman and disagreement are no stranger to nearly all families.
00:28No one is immune, but Carlos and his mom and girlfriend have been embroiled in something that is very high profile
00:38and everyone can't help but talk about it and pay attention, no?
00:42So our guest today is a clinical psychologist who will try to put whatever family dramas we're reading about and watching in context
00:54and perhaps help us understand our own family relationships, no?
00:59Dr. Anna Tuazon has her own podcast and writes a newspaper column.
01:04Magandang araw sa'yo, Dr. Anna Tuazon!
01:07Magandang araw, Howie.
01:10First, Doc, congratulations. I know you have a baby boy, Pablo, your firstborn. Nine months na ngayon, no?
01:18Yes, nine months. Makulit na, malikot.
01:22Okay, Doc, I'm a parent myself. I know becoming a parent changes everyone.
01:28But has it also changed the way you do your job and the way you approach patients?
01:34How has it affected you as a professional?
01:38It definitely changed me. I definitely have more compassion now for parents.
01:45Naiintindihan ko na that there are certain expectations we have of parents na minsan medyo mahirap abutin, mahirap makamit, no?
01:55And I realized how very human moms can be, personally speaking, di ba?
02:02Our patients are limited, we have fears, may mga anxieties tayo.
02:08So I'd like to think I gained more compassion to the point that I actually wrote about it in my column.
02:14I felt kinda bad now for how I was advising some parents in the past kasi feeling ko nagkulang, no?
02:23Medyo nagkulang yung compassion na parang madaling sabihin kung anong dapat gawin.
02:29When in reality, di ba, it's much more complicated talaga in real life.
02:34I'm sure you knew even before becoming a parent that parenting is hard, di ba?
02:39But now that you're a parent, have you concluded that it's even harder than you thought?
02:46Ano bang paano nagbago yung anak mo doon?
02:49In a way, definitely, di ba, my training really helped.
02:52Pagdating sa mga mental health stuff, development, parang hindi ako masyadong takot doon.
02:58Alam ko na what I need to do with my baby.
03:00Pero siguro the other stuff that I'm not very familiar with, di ba, the physical, the medical stuff, the nutrition.
03:09So yun talaga yung nagbago.
03:12And I think what I didn't realize was how relentless it is to be a parent.
03:18Di ba, it never turns off.
03:20And you have grown up children, di ba, it's never done.
03:26You never have a day off.
03:27So what it means to have something that's forever, that's relentless, that's so permanent.
03:35I think that's something I wasn't really anticipating at the very visceral level.
03:43Well, so you're a mother and there is a mother in the news.
03:48A mother of a much older child.
03:50And I'm talking, of course, about the Carlos Yulo family drama which has unfolded on social media, then on television, etc.
04:01Amidst one of the biggest sporting triumphs in Philippine history.
04:07So lumaban doon sa mga medaly ni Yulo yung balita, balibalita tungkol sa pamilya niya.
04:16Before I ask you anything specific, what's your general take on it?
04:21One, it's sad all around.
04:25Nobody really wins.
04:26Yun yung problema, I think, now that it's become so public.
04:29It's become something like people are taking sides, di ba, parang team this and team that.
04:35And someone's saying, ito siya, ang tama, siya ang mali.
04:38And in a family, hindi talaga yun helpful, actually.
04:42In a family therapy context, in a couple's therapy context, starting with that stance, ako ang tama, siya ang mali.
04:51It's not helpful.
04:53It hurts the family.
04:55When you were reading about this, thinking about it, how common is this?
05:04Napaisip ka ba tungkol sa mga pasyente mo?
05:07How unique or common is their situation?
05:12Aside from the fact that he's a world-class athlete, let's set that aside.
05:16Itong, basically, in case some listeners just came from Mars and don't know what's going on.
05:22A lot of it is about money, di ba.
05:24Carlos Yulo did not grow up wealthy, no?
05:30And you assume that the family still has a lot of needs, no?
05:35And all of a sudden, Carlos has become the most successful member of the family, both in sports and financially.
05:44So, may fair expectation ba yung pamilya na magsishare siya?
05:52And what attitudes should both sides be taking?
06:01So, yung unang tanong mo, Howie, di ba, is this more common than we think?
06:06And I think, in a way, di ba, pag meron talaga nag-viral, may nag-capture ng imagination ng mga Pinoy na personal story, it's because nag-resonate sa kanila.
06:16So, not just among my clients, but among my friends, di ba, and among the guests of our show, actually.
06:22Ang dami diyan yung burdens of being expected to be a breadwinner.
06:28So, yun yun, di ba, sabi mo nga parang merong breadwinner culture tayo, meron din tayong balato culture, di ba?
06:36So, if you come into some money, nanalo ka ng loto, or umangat ka sa buhay, dapat isama mo lahat.
06:45So, may mga ganung expectations.
06:48At the same time, di ba, parang at least on my end, yung mga narinig ko, yung burden nga, na parang teka, at what expense?
06:56Di ba, okay lang naman umangat tayong lahat.
06:58Pero kung ako mismo, ako mismo nang nadedehado, maybe ako na yung naloloko, di ba, medyo maka nagkakaroon ng question ng respect and honesty.
07:12Parang hanggang saan? Hanggang saan tayo, di ba, magiging generous as a breadwinner?
07:20Some people have said that there's also a class issue here, because a lot of world-class athletes from the Philippines,
07:32or even just very good athletes from the Philippines, come from well-off families.
07:37Kasi their families were able to afford nutrition, good coaching, good schools, overseas competition, and all of that.
07:45So it would be, this kind of drama may not have occurred if he had belonged to a middle-class or upper-class family.
07:55I don't know, to what extent does that make any sense? Or is this something much more universal than that?
08:03Actually, narinig ko na yung parang argument, na parang the expectation differs.
08:09Siyempre, sa pangangailangan, kasi kung hindi na kailangan ng pamilya, the expectation isn't so set or solid.
08:18But I think it's doing a disservice, to put all that, all that set of behaviors and set of interactions and relationships,
08:27dahil lang sa social class or dahil lang sa socioeconomic status.
08:31Kasi hindi naman parang mahirap ka, hindi na kayo nag-uusap ng matino, hindi na kayo nagpapaalam sa isa't-isa.
08:41Hindi parang mahirap ka, hindi na kayo nag-uusap about, okay, paano natin ito gagawin?
08:48How are we going to do this?
08:51If anything, as I said earlier, I don't want to analyze, but at the very core of it,
08:57merong lack of communication.
09:00Ang nangyari, yun na yun.
09:02To put it very, very mildly, ang problema talaga, hindi nag-uusap ng matino.
09:09So, hindi naman yun mahirap.
09:14Para sa mahirap, parang nag-uusap naman actually.
09:18If anything, sometimes ang mga poorer families, they have to problem-solve together.
09:26Hindi naman necessarily mag-isa.
09:27So, I don't want to bank it too much on that.
09:32Although, obviously, it's a factor.
09:34Kasi it's a factor na, okay, nag-outweigh eh, kailangan na talaga.
09:37Kailangan talaga, kailangan na pamilya.
09:41So, factor din siya.
09:44Well, at least from what I read in the news, the issue wasn't about do we give money or not.
09:52Diba ang issue, at least Kaloy said in his own direct statement,
09:57ang issue niya, hindi nagpaalam.
10:00So, again for me, again from a family therapy lens,
10:04hindi nag-communicate, kaya nagkaka-misunderstanding.
10:08And of course, the mother denied that as well, just to give the other side.
10:12So, we don't really know.
10:14But obviously, may communication problem because
10:19kumbaga, yung dirty laundry ng pamilya lumabas sa social media, kaya naging balita.
10:26Kasi kung sumunod lang doon sa advice mo na mag-usap na lang sa,
10:31you know, privately, as a family, et cetera,
10:33hindi na kailangan i-bulgar sa buong mundo.
10:37We wouldn't even be talking about it right now.
10:40And they might even have a happier family life.
10:44Pero, I just want to go back to this.
10:47Itong obligation sa pamilya.
10:50I mean, one of the comments that I saw,
10:52ang daming nagko-komentary tungkol dito.
10:54Apparently, yung sabi mo nga, it resonates with a lot of people.
10:58You know, because everyone's part of a family.
11:01Sabi ng isa, he started talking about his own burdens,
11:05and sabi niya, it's so tiring being my parents' retirement plan.
11:08So, this is someone who is a professional,
11:12young professional with his own dreams, et cetera,
11:16but he's so bogged down with supporting his parents,
11:21his younger siblings,
11:23alaki ng pressure sa kanya.
11:25He can't take a vacation.
11:27He has to do all this overtime.
11:30So, what do you think of, you know, sometimes this attitude?
11:34Kasi, you hear this, kaya lumaki yung papayasan.
11:36Kasi, you hear this, kaya lumaki yung population ng Pilipinas
11:40because there are a lot of families who look at their children
11:43as their retirement plan, supposedly.
11:46I don't know if that's a fair thing to say right now,
11:48but I saw that on Facebook, no?
11:50And parang investment, yun yung investment.
11:53Some people invest in land, some people invest in stock or whatever.
11:56There are other people who invest in children.
11:59So, they have many children
12:01because they know that when they grow up,
12:03I even hear this from wealthy people.
12:04Diba? Mabuti na lang, you know, naging walo yung anak ko.
12:08And it's beyond money.
12:10It's also about time spent with them as elderly, et cetera, no?
12:15But, yung ganun,
12:17is that a cultural thing among Filipinos,
12:20having that burden, that expectation?
12:24And how common is that?
12:26Parang yung feeling na yun, na yung anak na pinaaral,
12:30pag nung nagkatrabaho na,
12:32feeling niya siya yung retirement plan na magulang.
12:35So, maraming cultural values that's hitting on this.
12:40One is utang na loob, diba?
12:44The culture of utang na loob.
12:46And of course, the bigger value na talagang makapamilya talaga tayong,
12:50mga Pilipino.
12:52We value our family.
12:54Some scholars, ganun, would say,
12:55hindi naman talaga tayo collectivistic, tribalistic tayo, diba?
12:58We protect our family.
12:59Maybe not so much our countrymen, diba?
13:01But we do protect.
13:03We're fiercely protective.
13:04Of our family.
13:06Kung pinagsama mo yung value of family and utang na loob,
13:12that's when potential problems can come.
13:15Pero actually,
13:17and I don't know how much you want to get into this,
13:19kasi utang na loob, as a core value,
13:23isn't inherently toxic, Howie.
13:25Hindi naman siya inherently problematic.
13:29Utang na loob, as an indigenous value,
13:34is actually, it means,
13:36hindi lang ito transaction,
13:37and that is exactly what retirement plan thinking is.
13:40This is a transaction.
13:42I invested in you, right?
13:44And I need my payout.
13:46I need my payback at the end.
13:48So it's a very transactional relationship.
13:51Ang totoo ang utang na loob,
13:53as part of Filipino values,
13:55is that this is not merely a transaction,
13:58this is a relationship.
14:00So yung utang na loob,
14:01so kunyari, diba tinulungan mo ko, Howie?
14:04Diba tinulungan mo ko in a time of need?
14:07Hindi lang ito na,
14:08kung may utang na loob ako, babayaran ko ito one time.
14:11Kasi transaction eh.
14:12Kung anong tinulung mo sakin,
14:14yun ang ibabalik ko sayo.
14:15But utang na loob means,
14:18because you helped me,
14:19diba kapwa na tayo.
14:21This is now a valued relationship of mine,
14:25and I will treat you like family.
14:27Diba parang ganon?
14:28So ako, I get really sad as a psychologist,
14:32si Kulahiyang Pilipino,
14:34na parang nadi-distort ang utang na loob.
14:37Utang na loob has become such a bad word,
14:41especially for young people now.
14:43Kasi ang nangyari, it became,
14:45parang na-distort siya into something transactional.
14:48Pinalaki kita, diba?
14:51So now, alagaan mo ko in my later years.
14:54But that's not really what utang na loob is.
14:58I can go deeper into that,
15:00pero masyado ng geeky na.
15:05So yun, yun yung utang na loob.
15:08And so I hope people really understand what that means.
15:11So utang na loob is not something demanded,
15:14just like respect in a way, right?
15:16It is something that is forged through trust.
15:20Through trust and a bond.
15:23Now, yung makapamilya,
15:25syempre yung idea is,
15:27diba?
15:29We like people who are family-oriented.
15:32Alam natin yan.
15:33Pag public person ka, diba?
15:35Kailangan talaga family-oriented ka.
15:39So, unfortunately, yun na nga.
15:43If you combine yung parang medyo transactional na utang na loob
15:47with family-orientedness,
15:49parang equals, diba?
15:51That plus that equals,
15:52bigay mo lahat sa panilya mo.
15:54Diba? Ibigay mo lahat.
15:56I'm sure nakita mo tahawid, diba?
15:58Maraming nagpo-quote,
15:59honor thy mother and thy father
16:01in this conversation.
16:03So nagkaroon pa ng religious value
16:06to it.
16:09But really, that's not how it's supposed to be.
16:12Diba?
16:13Hindi parang mabait lang akong anak
16:15dahil binibigyan kita ng pera.
16:16Hindi rin maganda yun, diba?
16:18Merong ibang ways.
16:19There should be many, many other ways
16:21we could show our love,
16:22our respect.
16:24So, yun yun eh.
16:27I know I got really into the values.
16:30So yung sa breadwinner,
16:32sinasabi ko nga sa mga clients ko
16:34who are burdened by that.
16:36It's a big burden, diba?
16:37Ikaw ang responsible.
16:39And the thing is,
16:40pagbata pa,
16:41yung sinasabi ko sa mga magulang,
16:42pagbata pa sila,
16:44allow them to dream.
16:46Give them a way to
16:48live out those dreams.
16:50Hindi yung, diba?
16:51May mga ibang pamilyan,
16:52narinig ko na
16:52ayaw nila mag-asawa yung anak.
16:56Kasi, diba?
16:57Pag umalis ka na,
16:58yung asawa mo na yung paggagastusan mo.
17:00Hindi na kami.
17:01Pag umalis ka sa bahay,
17:02hindi may paggagastusan mo na yung bahay mo.
17:05Hindi yung sa amin.
17:06Yung gano'n.
17:07So,
17:08hindi naman dapat.
17:09Diba?
17:10So, it should be where,
17:11diba?
17:12The child of his own volition.
17:14Diba?
17:15Because you want to honor
17:16your mother and your father.
17:17You want to care for them.
17:19And then the parents
17:20don't demand that care.
17:21But actually,
17:22saan lang umiiting is
17:24how much care they want to give each other.
17:26Instead of how much care they want to receive
17:29from each other.
17:30Well, thank you.
17:31That's a good perspective.
17:33So,
17:34would you advise
17:37parents
17:38to
17:39just make sure that
17:41in their old age,
17:42as much as possible,
17:43nakapag-ipon sila.
17:45I mean,
17:46dapat walang assumptions
17:47na aalagaan sila ng
17:48mga anak nila.
17:51You know,
17:51make sure
17:52that
17:53you can cover
17:54your medical expenses.
17:55Kasi,
17:56may mga tao
17:57na kahit may kaya,
17:59may assumptions sila
18:01na aalagaan naman sila
18:02ng mga anak nila.
18:03Kaya,
18:04gagastusin nila
18:05on experience.
18:06Nagbabakasyon,
18:07naggrande,
18:08kasi
18:09marami naman silang anak.
18:11So,
18:12how do you
18:13balance that?
18:14Okay,
18:15may tinuro kang value
18:17sa mga anak mo.
18:18Utang na loob,
18:19honor their
18:21father and mother,
18:22etc.
18:23But,
18:24at the same time,
18:25you also
18:26want to allow them
18:27to dream, right?
18:28So,
18:29would you advise
18:30the parents
18:31in those situations?
18:32I mean,
18:33just make sure
18:34that, you know,
18:35as much as possible,
18:36independent kayo
18:37in your old age.
18:38Yeah.
18:39So,
18:40this is where
18:41ikokontradik ko
18:42sarili ko,
18:43Howie,
18:44kasi now,
18:45this is where
18:46the socioeconomic status
18:47comes in.
18:48So,
18:49I think
18:50make sure
18:51you have medical
18:52insurance,
18:53health insurance
18:55in this country.
18:56That's so expensive
18:57if you don't have a company
18:58that's paying
18:59for that.
19:00So,
19:02siguro hindi lang
19:03ganun kasimple.
19:04Of course,
19:05may means,
19:06kaya mag-ipon
19:07for yourself,
19:08you know,
19:09to set up that
19:10post-retirement
19:11life
19:12for you
19:13set aside
19:14for health.
19:15Kung kaya yon,
19:16please do.
19:17Please do.
19:18That is another
19:19gift you can give
19:20to someone.
19:21Now,
19:22kung hindi naman
19:23kaya talaga,
19:24di ba?
19:25It's not like
19:26they're not trying.
19:27Nobody wants
19:28to not have money.
19:29So,
19:30I'm sure
19:31they're trying
19:32their best
19:33to be financially
19:34secure.
19:35Pag hindi kaya
19:36at the very least,
19:37yung
19:38false dichotomy
19:39kasi Howie,
19:40di ba?
19:41Na pag tutulungan
19:42mong pamilya mong,
19:43hindi mo na
19:44makakamit
19:45ang pangarap mo.
19:46Andami kung
19:47pasyente,
19:48Howie,
19:49ganun mag-isip.
19:50Kung Howie,
19:51hindi sila mahira pa,
19:52it doesn't
19:53have to be
19:54one or the other.
19:55So, kung ako
19:56ngayon,
19:57as a new mom,
19:58no?
19:59If ever
20:00my son,
20:01you know,
20:02helps me,
20:03I want to make sure
20:04it's not
20:05at his expense.
20:06So,
20:07hindi ako
20:08ang magsasara
20:09ng pinto,
20:10no?
20:11Para sa kanya.
20:12So,
20:13kung kailangan
20:14man tumulong
20:15at any point,
20:16di ba?
20:17Parang,
20:18ala,
20:19teka,
20:20sa utilities,
20:21sige tulong ka anak.
20:22And,
20:23you make sure,
20:24o anak,
20:25make sure may naiipon ka
20:26para sa sarili mo.
20:27And then,
20:28make sure,
20:29kung adult na sila,
20:30di ba?
20:31If they want to carve out,
20:32you know,
20:33seek their own spouse.
20:34Start their own
20:35families
20:36that we don't
20:37get in the way.
20:38I mean,
20:39not to say
20:40wala tayong pakailang,
20:41pero generally
20:42the idea,
20:43the principle
20:44of them having a life
20:45shouldn't
20:46be threatening
20:47to the parents.
20:48Yun lang.
20:49So,
20:50yes.
20:51Boy, teka,
20:52nagkakabuhay siya
20:53na hindi ako
20:54kasama
20:55or hindi ako
20:56yung nasa centro.
20:57Medyo,
20:58as parents,
20:59mag-reflect tayo.
21:00Teka, teka.
21:01Baka medyo
21:02hindi masyado
21:03ng type
21:04ang kapit
21:05natin.
21:06Kasi actually,
21:07di ba?
21:08Ano bang
21:09magiging
21:10final grade
21:11natin as parents?
21:12If they can
21:13live the life
21:14that they want,
21:15be good people,
21:16be decent
21:17people,
21:18di ba?
21:19And,
21:20I think
21:21no parent
21:22wants that anyway
21:23regardless.
21:24Yeah,
21:25and sometimes
21:26the issue is not
21:27even money.
21:28It's like,
21:29okay,
21:30ipapamanan mo
21:31yung family business.
21:32Kahit gusto
21:33maging painter
21:34or,
21:35you know,
21:36journalist
21:37or whatever,
21:38yung anak,
21:39may negosyo yung
21:40pamilya,
21:41whether it's
21:42a sari-sari store
21:43or a gasoline
21:44station
21:45or a big company,
21:46para may expectation
21:47na ito yung
21:48pamanan ko sayo.
21:49You know,
21:50it's like
21:51yung guilt trip,
21:52no?
21:53At least sa mga kilala ko
21:54pag hindi nila
21:55tinupad yung
21:56ganun kasing
21:57expectation,
21:58no?
21:59Okay,
22:00the parents
22:01don't need.
22:02They're financially
22:03independent,
22:04pero iba naman yung
22:05utang na low
22:06pressure
22:07on the kids,
22:08nasa ibang level,
22:09no?
22:10It's not similar,
22:11right?
22:12Definitely,
22:13parang
22:14hindi breadwinner
22:15necessarily,
22:16pero di ba
22:17continue my legacy.
22:18Di ba?
22:19Parang
22:20dream of life,
22:21um,
22:22I've heard of
22:23that as well,
22:24um,
22:25and
22:26actually,
22:27I commend,
22:28no?
22:29The parents
22:30who realize,
22:31wait,
22:32it's okay
22:33if my dream
22:34isn't their dream.
22:35Di ba?
22:36Dream nyo yung negosyo
22:37na yon,
22:38dream nyo yung
22:39clinic na yon,
22:40kung anuman yung
22:41practice
22:42na ipapamanan nyo.
22:43Actually,
22:44dun na lang
22:45ako natuwa,
22:46parang,
22:47oh,
22:48kahit nanay ako,
22:48they realize,
22:49yeah,
22:50your dreams
22:51are not
22:52necessarily
22:53your children's dreams.
22:54If they happen to
22:55coincide,
22:56that's great.
22:57That's fantastic.
22:58Mas madali.
22:59Mas simple
23:00ang buhay.
23:01Now,
23:02if your child
23:03wants to explore
23:04something
23:05that you're
23:06not familiar with,
23:07um,
23:08I,
23:09I say,
23:10let them.
23:11As long as,
23:12di ba?
23:13Parang
23:14wala namang
23:15red flags,
23:16wala namang
23:17safety risks,
23:18maybe it's time
23:19to look at
23:20di ba?
23:21Professional managers,
23:22people who are
23:23actually competent.
23:24I'm sure there are
23:25very many competent
23:26people
23:27in your business.
23:28Ano yon?
23:29Malaking,
23:30di ba?
23:31Malaking transition yon
23:32sa,
23:33sa mindset
23:34kung sa business naman.
23:35Okay,
23:36balikan ko lang to
23:37si Carlos Yulo,
23:38no?
23:39Because we haven't
23:40talked about
23:41the other
23:42person in this
23:43drama.
23:44It's not just
23:45the son and the mother.
23:46There's a girlfriend,
23:47a partner,
23:48controversial,
23:49uh,
23:50probably
23:51without even wanting
23:52to be,
23:53no?
23:54Uh,
23:55okay,
23:56anong take mo don?
23:57What's your
23:58reaction to,
23:59to her role
24:00in all of this?
24:01Mm-mm.
24:02Um,
24:03siguro,
24:04to be honest,
24:05ang first reaction
24:06ko,
24:07um,
24:08why is,
24:09why is she the issue?
24:10Because I,
24:11I don't understand
24:12why,
24:13sabi mo nga,
24:14why she has become
24:15as infamous
24:16as she is.
24:17Kasi,
24:18ano ko,
24:19sana hindi ako
24:20maka-answer dito.
24:21Howie?
24:22Objectively,
24:23parang,
24:24wala naman nakitang
24:25talagang
24:26masama.
24:27Maybe
24:28palaban
24:29and things like that.
24:30Um,
24:31so,
24:32okay,
24:33what I'm seeing is,
24:34sabi ko,
24:35yung miscommunication
24:36nila,
24:37on the one side,
24:38someone is saying
24:39this is a money issue.
24:40Diba?
24:41This is a transparency
24:42issue actually,
24:43not a money issue.
24:44This is a transparency
24:45issue.
24:46Yung sabi ning said,
24:47no,
24:48this has nothing to do
24:49with the money.
24:50It's the girlfriend.
24:51So,
24:52wala tayo don eh.
24:53Hindi natin alam
24:54kung na talagang
24:55nangyayari.
24:56Hindi natin alam
24:57talaga yung konteksto.
24:58Pero at least
24:59from that,
25:00yung ganun lang,
25:01alam natin,
25:02ah,
25:03they're fighting
25:04different battles,
25:05kaya walang nananalo
25:06at walang resolution.
25:07Diba?
25:08Parang,
25:09parang,
25:10punyalang nag-uwelga
25:11sa,
25:12sa,
25:13sa Manila
25:14si mommy.
25:15Si Carlos Yulo naman
25:16nasa Quezon
25:17Memorial Circle
25:18So,
25:19diba?
25:20They're fighting
25:21different battles.
25:22Um,
25:23so,
25:24wah,
25:25ah,
25:26girlfriends
25:27and mother-in-laws.
25:28Well,
25:29yun na na,
25:30okay,
25:31kasi that situation
25:32resonated
25:33in a different way,
25:34no?
25:35Wala diyan yung
25:36parental
25:37expectations,
25:38et cetera.
25:39Ano yan?
25:40Ah,
25:41that's also
25:42a common situation
25:43for a lot of
25:44families.
25:45Yung,
25:46in a way,
25:47tension
25:48between
25:49girlfriends
25:50and mothers,
25:51wives
25:52and mothers
25:53of
25:54the husband,
25:55et cetera.
25:56May,
25:57minsan may competition,
25:58may,
25:59may jealousy.
26:00Diba?
26:01I mean,
26:02I've seen this
26:03play out
26:04in a lot of
26:05different
26:06ways,
26:07no?
26:08Ah,
26:09so,
26:10you,
26:11you seek
26:12family situations
26:13like that,
26:14right?
26:15And what do you
26:16usually advise?
26:17So,
26:18wala ganon.
26:19Wala ganon
26:20kasi it really,
26:21really depends
26:22on context.
26:23In fact,
26:24parang tinatanong din
26:25ang friend ko,
26:26ko ikaw yan,
26:27diba?
26:28Parang,
26:29you were asked
26:30to choose,
26:31diba?
26:32Between a parent
26:33and your partner,
26:34who would you choose?
26:35Sabi ko,
26:36ay,
26:37ko sino yung nagtanong?
26:38Sabi ko,
26:39ko sino yung nagultimatum
26:40sakin?
26:41Diba?
26:42Yung yung ima
26:43minus points ko.
26:44Kasi,
26:45that's,
26:46I think that's the thing.
26:47Like,
26:48you have to choose
26:49one or the other.
26:50Parang Solomon's
26:51baby to,
26:52no,
26:53Howie?
26:54If you think about it,
26:55parang,
26:56diba?
26:57Who says,
26:58you have to choose
26:59me or her,
27:00diba?
27:01It's a version of that.
27:02And then someone says,
27:03wait,
27:04I don't,
27:05I don't want you
27:06to have to choose.
27:07So,
27:08actually,
27:09if you get a person
27:10like that,
27:11diba?
27:12Where I don't want
27:13you to have to choose,
27:14I want you to have
27:15them all.
27:16I want you to have
27:17us all.
27:18Like,
27:19I know we have
27:20concerns as parents
27:21and we want what's
27:22best
27:23for our children.
27:24Pero,
27:25yung giving ultimatums,
27:26diba?
27:27Or kind of saying,
27:28ah,
27:29kung nadiyan ka,
27:30diba?
27:31Hindi kita kakausapin.
27:32I don't actually know
27:33what's going on
27:34with the family,
27:35per se.
27:36Pero,
27:37kung nagbigay ka ng
27:38parang hard line,
27:39diba?
27:40Hiwalayan mo yan,
27:41or hindi ko siya type.
27:42No,
27:43hindi ko siya type.
27:44Eh,
27:45type siya ng anak mo.
27:46So,
27:47actually,
27:48my parents,
27:49Howie,
27:50no matter,
27:51with this issue
27:52and other issues,
27:53is
27:54always choose
27:55the side
27:56where he will
27:57continue to listen
27:58to you.
27:59Diba?
28:00Always choose
28:01the route
28:02na meron ka paring
28:03influence sa kanya.
28:04You're still
28:05someone he trusts.
28:06Kaya,
28:07actually,
28:08my own parents,
28:09you know,
28:10they would admit
28:11to me once
28:12relationships are
28:13over.
28:14Ah,
28:15you know,
28:16ayaw namin magsalita,
28:17eh,
28:18ngayon.
28:19So,
28:20dapat may konting,
28:21diba?
28:22Parang isipin mo taklang,
28:23is this worth it?
28:24Kasi right now,
28:25in love na in love pa,
28:26eh,
28:27guguluhin ko ba?
28:28If I really have
28:29concerns,
28:30I want to still be
28:31within that circle
28:32of trust ng anak ko.
28:33Para if something
28:34does happen
28:35and my son
28:36gets hurt,
28:37right?
28:38Or my son
28:39is on the verge
28:40of getting hurt,
28:41nandiyan ako
28:42na para sumalo.
28:43Okay,
28:44but as you know,
28:45most parents naman
28:46are well-intentioned,
28:47no?
28:48Ah,
28:49is,
28:50the partner
28:51is not good
28:52for their child.
28:54Diba?
28:55Could even be,
28:56could even be
28:57life-threatening.
28:58I mean,
28:59minsan ganun ang
29:00perception,
29:01diba?
29:02Ah,
29:03lalo na pag-anak mo
29:04yung babae,
29:05right?
29:06Um,
29:07you know,
29:08there's a distrust.
29:09I mean,
29:10where do you draw the line?
29:11I mean,
29:12yeah,
29:13I understand
29:14where you're coming
29:15from na,
29:16you know,
29:17ayaw mo masyadong
29:18different.
29:19May natural
29:20instinct ka,
29:21no,
29:22to protect your
29:23offspring,
29:24and may
29:25threat perception
29:26ka,
29:27diba?
29:28How do you
29:29communicate that?
29:30Yeah,
29:31um,
29:32ako,
29:33when I imagine it,
29:34no,
29:35like,
29:36oh,
29:37kung nangyari sakin yon,
29:38and I really
29:39don't like
29:40who Pablo
29:41is seeing,
29:42diba?
29:43Um,
29:44parang nangisip ko,
29:45gusto ko siyang tanungin,
29:46oh,
29:47anak,
29:48I don't want to
29:49ride.
29:50I don't want to
29:51risk being on the outside,
29:52kasi lalo na kung may threat,
29:53eh,
29:54tapos parang
29:55boy who cried wolf yan,
29:56diba?
29:57Kung masyadong ka
29:58mabilis.
29:59I would ask my son,
30:00parang,
30:01oh,
30:02tell me what you like
30:03about her,
30:04diba?
30:05Kasi baka naman
30:06meron akong
30:07hindi nakikita.
30:08And at the same time,
30:09makikita ko,
30:10bakit attached na
30:11attached siya
30:12despite all
30:13these red flags?
30:14Diba?
30:15Um,
30:16and then,
30:17sort of,
30:18talk to their kids,
30:19to talk to their kids,
30:20even young kids,
30:21no?
30:22Um,
30:23because they know
30:24what a boyfriend is,
30:25they know what dating is,
30:26to say,
30:27oh, you know,
30:28how can you be a good
30:29boyfriend,
30:30girlfriend?
30:31How do you know
30:32they're a good
30:33boyfriend,
30:34girlfriend to you?
30:35So in other words,
30:36hindi ka magre-react
30:37pag nandyan na,
30:38dapat before,
30:39before pa nagka-girlfriend,
30:40before nagka-boyfriend,
30:41medyo na-assess mo na
30:42kung
30:43well-placed
30:44ba yung,
30:45diba?
30:46Values,
30:47nakakakita ba
30:48nakakakita?
30:49Tapos siya,
30:50hindi niya nakita,
30:51parang may,
30:52may nawala again.
30:53Um,
30:54so,
30:55communication.
30:56Now,
30:57of course,
30:58this is when
30:59wala namang labag sa batas.
31:00Now,
31:01diba?
31:02If they're,
31:03oh my God,
31:04drug dealer yan,
31:05o kaya mga matay tao yan,
31:06oh my God,
31:07mayroong bug-bug yung
31:08anak ko,
31:09iba yun,
31:10right?
31:11If there are
31:12actually legit
31:13safety issues,
31:14but barring that,
31:15kung medyo
31:16personality differences,
31:17some value
31:18ka,
31:19hindi naman illegal
31:20values
31:21yung gusto
31:22ng isa,
31:23mas okay
31:24nang alamin mo,
31:25intindihin mo,
31:26before you try
31:27to make an intervention,
31:28and you can,
31:29you can make
31:30an intervention
31:31diba?
31:32sa child mo,
31:33before you make
31:34an intervention,
31:35you better really,
31:36really,
31:37really understand
31:38that mahal na mahal
31:39ng anak ko.
31:40Kasi pag hindi mo pa
31:41naiintindihan
31:42and you attempt
31:43an intervention,
31:44anong sasabihin
31:45ng anak?
31:46You don't understand.
31:47You don't know her.
31:48It's really
31:49just about being
31:50pragmatic
31:51and effective.
31:52Well,
31:53just
31:54going back
31:55to
31:56Carlos Yulo's
31:57case,
31:58no?
31:59I mean,
32:00putting his
32:01family situation
32:02in a more positive
32:03light,
32:04despite
32:05the drama
32:06and the stress,
32:07I'm sure he was
32:08under a lot of stress,
32:09no?
32:10Because of
32:11this.
32:12He still won
32:13two golds,
32:14no?
32:15And then he also
32:16had a problem
32:17with his coach.
32:18He had issues,
32:19et cetera.
32:20I mean,
32:21so many people
32:22are amazed
32:23that
32:24parang nakiki
32:25nakiki gym
32:26lang siya
32:27doon sa ibang
32:28athletes,
32:29no?
32:30I mean,
32:31he was really
32:32disadvantaged
32:33in the lead-up
32:34to the Olympics,
32:35no?
32:36And to a great
32:37extent,
32:38he was crediting
32:39his girlfriend.
32:40Yeah.
32:41Because you need
32:42to be strong,
32:43no?
32:44To achieve
32:45anything that great,
32:46no?
32:47I mean,
32:48you need to be
32:49stable,
32:50not just
32:51physically,
32:52no?
32:53So,
32:54that's a credit
32:55to him,
32:56no?
32:57And he was
32:58able to
32:59compartmentalize
33:00and,
33:01but I don't know,
33:02I mean,
33:03what's your take
33:04on that?
33:05Is it possible
33:06to compartmentalize?
33:07I mean,
33:08meron kang malaking
33:09family issue
33:10and then
33:11you're in
33:12the middle
33:13of this quest
33:14na dapat
33:15single-minded ka
33:16but there's
33:17all this
33:18naging
33:19balakid yo,
33:20no?
33:21Of course,
33:22he was also
33:23probably very
33:24lucky, etc.
33:25But,
33:26where should
33:27the credit go
33:28to Carlos,
33:29to his girlfriend,
33:30to,
33:31I mean,
33:32to his coaching?
33:33Ano bang,
33:34what's your
33:35reading of that?
33:36Thank you
33:37for asking that
33:38kasi actually
33:39in all this
33:40sort of
33:41drama
33:42that's out
33:43there,
33:44parang sabi ko
33:45people are
33:46assuming
33:47walang agency
33:48or choices
33:49that he was being
33:50influenced
33:51one way
33:52or the other
33:53and,
33:54for me,
33:55I mean,
33:56my gosh,
33:57the biggest credit
33:58should be him.
33:59He's the one
34:00that did all that.
34:01He's the one,
34:02he didn't just
34:03do physical gymnastics,
34:04he did mental
34:05gymnastics
34:06to get to
34:07where he is,
34:08diba?
34:09Emotional.
34:10Emotional diyan,
34:11no?
34:12Yeah,
34:13definitely
34:14and in a way,
34:15I think that
34:16yung mga professional
34:17athletes,
34:19every
34:20high-level athlete
34:21will tell you,
34:22no?
34:23Physical kaya yan eh,
34:24daan sa workout,
34:25daan sa training,
34:26daan sa conditioning,
34:27sa mental
34:28nakakatalo.
34:29You know,
34:30yung that
34:31mind game
34:32that happens
34:33when you're there.
34:34The moment you
34:35second-guess yourself,
34:36lalo na in a sport
34:37like gymnastics,
34:38you can fall,
34:39you can stumble,
34:40diba?
34:41The moment you
34:42get distracted.
34:43So I think
34:44it helped,
34:45the sport helped him
34:46if that makes sense.
34:47Well,
34:49pero diba,
34:50I can imagine
34:51that the sport
34:52having that mindset
34:53of an athlete
34:54helped him
34:55focus,
34:56diba?
34:57With all the chaos
34:58and all the noise
34:59around.
35:00So,
35:01yeah,
35:02like for me,
35:03the biggest credit
35:04should be him,
35:05the one who actually
35:06achieved
35:07the two
35:08gold medals.
35:09Of course,
35:10my gosh,
35:11hindi naman
35:12limited ang credit,
35:13diba?
35:14There can be
35:15credit all around.
35:16It's not just
35:17this one person,
35:18it's not just
35:19one coach
35:20or this coach,
35:21diba?
35:22I'm sure
35:23every person
35:24along the way
35:25has helped him,
35:26but let's not
35:27forget,
35:28he did this
35:29himself,
35:30like it was
35:31his actions,
35:32his behavior,
35:33his performance
35:34that led to
35:35this achievement.
35:36And I think
35:37that's a great
35:38note to end on,
35:39you know?
35:40I know
35:41you have
35:42more important
35:43duties right now,
35:44Doc,
35:45so thank you
35:46for sharing
35:47your time
35:48and your
35:49important perspective
35:50on all of this.
35:51I understand
35:52it better now,
35:53and I feel
35:54more comfortable
35:55even about
35:56my own relationship.
35:57Maraming maraming
35:58salamat,
35:59Dr. Anna Tuazon,
36:00podcaster,
36:01writer,
36:02newspaper columnist,
36:03and
36:04clinical psychologist
36:05Mabuhay Ka.
36:06Thank you for
36:07your service.
36:08Thank you so
36:09much, Howie,
36:10for having me.
36:11Hi,
36:12I'm Howie Severino.
36:13Check out
36:14the Howie Severino
36:15podcast.
36:16New episodes
36:17will stream
36:18for free
36:19on Spotify,
36:20Apple Podcasts,
36:21Google Podcasts,
36:22and other platforms.
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