Ex-French first lady Carla Bruni-Sarkozy charged with witness tampering in husband's campaign case

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00:00It's the 2007 French presidential race that's drawing attention.

00:06What with now news that former first lady, ex-supermodel Carla Bruni faces potential

00:13witness tampering charges.

00:16This after a star witness in the case turned, recounted his evidence.

00:23Magistrates probing suspicions that late Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi bankrolled part of

00:29Nicolas Sarkozy's successful 2007 run through middleman Ziad Takedine.

00:35More on that story with Delana D'Souza.

00:42She's often spotted on red carpets around France and Europe.

00:46And now Carla Bruni Sarkozy finds herself in the crosshairs of the French legal system.

00:52The supermodel turned singer became France's first lady in 2008 after marrying Nicolas

00:57Sarkozy, who was president at the time.

01:00Born in Italy but raised in France, the 56-year-old is an heir to Italian rubber manufacturer

01:05SIAT.

01:06On Tuesday, Bruni Sarkozy was handed preliminary charges for witness tampering.

01:12The case is part of an ongoing investigation into former president Sarkozy.

01:16Courts are looking into an operation dubbed Save Sarko, which includes a retracted statement

01:22by Ziad Takedine.

01:24The Franco-Lebanese businessman, who now lives in Lebanon since a separate conviction in

01:28France, had initially claimed to have handed over Libyan funds to Sarkozy's 2007 campaign.

01:34Bruni Sarkozy is suspected of acting as an intermediary in 2020 between the former president

01:40and a friend in the celebrity press, who allegedly orchestrated Takedine withdrawing his statement

01:45on camera.

01:47France's former first lady has now been placed under judicial supervision.

01:52Carla Bruni Sarkozy has been forbidden from contacting all those involved in the case,

01:57except her husband.

02:01And with us, we're joined by attorney William Jullier.

02:06Let's get to Carla Bruni in a moment.

02:07But first, there's this star witness, Ziad Takedine.

02:11He was a little bit accused of being one of the bag men in this case.

02:17But he was, he'd certainly, he turned state's evidence and then recanted it.

02:22Yeah, he's been in the sunlight for more than 10 years now.

02:29The original case connected to this one is the case about the financing of the presidential

02:35campaign.

02:36And that goes back to an investigation opened in 2013, I think.

02:40And Ziad Takedine was one of the main guys involved, but not only involved, but involving

02:47other people.

02:48And he starts to spill the beans.

02:50And then in 2020, he recants.

02:52Yeah, that's it.

02:53So.

02:54And then enter Carla Bruni.

02:55Yeah, that's it.

02:56So 2013, he's, he's indicted and he's, he's targeted by the investigations.

03:03And he says, yes, maybe I did some stuff, but I handed over 5 million or something like

03:08that in cash to Nicolas Sarkozy directly or to.

03:14Strictly illegal under campaign finance rules in France.

03:17Absolutely.

03:18And then I think he varied quite a lot.

03:21But then in 2020, indeed, he does this first, I think, interview for BFM and it comes out

03:29in Paris match or something like that.

03:31And I think that after that, he also, because it does not seem to had had so much effect,

03:39then he sends a notarized letter to the investigating judges to confirm that he is not maintaining

03:47his accusations about against Nicolas Sarkozy.

03:51And then when an investigation is started, and this is the Carla Bruni Sarkozy case we're

03:56discussing now, I think judges go to Lebanon to interview him because he has been in the

04:03meantime sentenced to five years in jail in France in the Karachi case, I think.

04:09So he's on the run and he's hiding in Lebanon.

04:12So the magistrates go there to interview him.

04:15And I think that at one point, then he comes back to his initial position and says, no,

04:21actually, what I said in the beginning is true.

04:24So now he is maintaining again, and they reportedly found hard evidence with these

04:28text messages, exchanges and what looks a lot like a burner phone.

04:33That is to say, Carla Bruni goes out and asks, first off, where can I get a phone that's

04:38not been traced?

04:39Yeah, that's it.

04:42With caution, of course, because this is an allegation.

04:45And I don't have access to the case.

04:47So I mean, I'm just reading what, you know, your investigation colleagues have brought

04:54to light.

04:55And I do assume that they have viewed some of the bundled documents.

05:01But yes, I mean, it seems that the investigators have discovered some technical hard evidence,

05:10pieces of evidence amongst which the number of a burner phone that was associated to Carla

05:19Bruni's Apple account or something like that.

05:22And then from this, they traced text messages, dates of contacts, dates of phone calls between

05:29this phone and people involved during the expedition to Lebanon, where apparently this

05:41interview was carried out.

05:43You rightly point out, William, that what we're going on right now is what investigative

05:49journalists from Mediapart and Le Monde have so far reported.

05:55We haven't seen more.

05:56Based on what you've seen, can she plead ignorance?

06:04What we know is that whatever she pleaded only partially went through because she was

06:13indicted for some of the charges.

06:18And for one other charge, she was not indicted.

06:22She was placed under what we call le statut témoin assisté, which is assisted witness.

06:28That means that she's still considered a witness, but with access to the case.

06:32But on some other charges, she was indicted, meaning that the investigating judges considered

06:39that there was sufficient pieces of evidence.

06:41We don't have indictments in France, right?

06:43It's placed under a formal investigation.

06:45Yeah, that's it.

06:46It's la mise en examen, which is...

06:49Formal investigation.

06:50Yeah, exactly.

06:51So can an investigating judge on the face of investigations carried out before by the

06:56police consider that there are sufficient pieces of evidence to charge you?

07:02And then once you are charged, you have access to the case.

07:06You can request...

07:07So from what you're saying, she's more than just peripheral to this story.

07:11It seems...

07:12This story being the 2007 campaign and the connecting the dots between Muammar Gaddafi

07:17and Nicolas Sarkozy.

07:18No.

07:19No.

07:20She's not involved in that.

07:21She's involved in this sequence when, where...

07:25The star witness changes.

07:26Where people go to Lebanon and apparently against money or promises of money, obtain

07:35that this Mr Takiedine will make a change in his statements and retrieve his accusations

07:43against Nicolas Sarkozy.

07:45And Carla Bruni Sarkozy would be in the middle between her husband and this Mimi Marchand

07:50lady, who apparently is a friend of hers.

07:52All right.

07:53William Julliet, let's talk politics here for a second.

07:58Nicolas Sarkozy faces with...

08:01You've just described it.

08:02Not one, but several cases.

08:04I think there's at least four where he's under formal investigation, where he's actually

08:07facing trial.

08:08Oh, and he's...

08:09More than that.

08:10He's been tried twice at least.

08:12And he's appealed against one.

08:13There were appeals.

08:14And he's got a long string of trials.

08:17Why were the Sarkozy couple among the invitees when Joe Biden was here for a state dinner

08:25just a couple of weeks ago in Paris?

08:27I can't answer that question.

08:29I don't know.

08:32What is your reaction when you saw those images there of the, you know, the Sarkozy's continue

08:37to be welcomed to the presidential palace?

08:40Yeah, Nicolas Sarkozy for the moment has not...

08:44The French don't really see this as a problem.

08:46They see it as old history or...

08:48I don't know.

08:50I think that he remains very popular.

08:57Quite a bunch of people who are in politics have faced judicial issues.

09:03Some have been sentenced without any possibility to appeal anymore.

09:10I think Alain Juppé, for example, was sentenced and then became mayor of Bordeaux again.

09:18So I mean, it is also possible to continue to exist politically if you have been sentenced.

09:24And if you have been sentenced, finally, I don't think this is the case for Nicolas Sarkozy.

09:32He's still fighting the sentences that were passed against him and the guilty sentences

09:37passed against him.

09:39So as it is, if you go by the rule of law, he is still considered non-guilty on the final

09:47conclusion.

09:48So I guess that maybe he's going with that.

09:52We'll see how far it can go.

09:55And yeah, I'm not the one who decided who was going to be invited.

10:00But yes, and I think she's maybe still also very popular with her singing and her good

10:07looks.

10:08So maybe for the moment it works.

10:10We'll see.

10:11Carla Bruni, innocent till proven guilty.

10:13Many thanks.

10:14That's how it is.

10:15William Jullier.

10:16Stay with us.

10:17There's much more to come.

10:18More news plus today's business.

10:19And in sports, we'll raise the curtain on England versus the Netherlands, second semifinal

10:25at Euro 2024.

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