00:00Now, Professor Finkelstein, what do you think is happening here?
00:02There seems to be a pattern that people who are sort of observing or claiming that there's
00:07potentially judicial overreach here, that the Supreme Court is—there's delay tactics
00:13here, there's sort of coddling of former President Trump's cases in order potentially
00:17to benefit him.
00:20What do you see as the pattern that may be occurring here, if there even is one?
00:26Well, what's really striking to me is the difference between the Trump v. Vance case
00:31just decided four years ago in 2020 and this case, because there's only been one change
00:39in the court's identity since 2020, and that's Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson.
00:51And she did not change the balance significantly, certainly not for the more conservative side.
00:59And it was a Justice Roberts opinion in both cases.
01:03So you remember in the Trump v. Vance case, which also dealt with immunity, albeit a different
01:09kind of immunity, the court was unanimous in finding that presidents were not above
01:18the law.
01:19And so they seem, just in four short years, to have reversed themselves and to have taken
01:24a very different position with regard to presidential authority.
01:30How did that happen?
01:31Well, I think one of the things that happened, which is really striking, is that they are
01:37acting now in anticipation of a second Trump presidency.
01:43And they're expecting that presidency to be quite lawless.
01:49And they may be, despite holding lifetime tenure, may be afraid.
01:55And they may also be afraid of their own accountability, because significant questions have been raised
02:03about several of the members' ethics, and they are looking potentially for protection.
02:11So that's just a total speculation on my part.
02:14But if you could expand just a little bit on that, they are afraid that what exactly
02:18might happen?
02:19Well, they could be afraid of being held accountable for their own ethical problems, and they may
02:26be looking towards a potential Trump presidency for protection from him.
02:34But they also may be concerned about his promises to seek revenge against political enemies.
02:43So he has promised to use the Justice Department to seek revenge against political enemies.
02:51He has said, he has promised that he will use the Justice Department in lawless ways,
02:58and that he will seek to prosecute those who get in his way and those who have tried
03:05to hold him accountable.
03:08And so people may be, this may be a reflection of a tide turning in which people are afraid
03:16to stand up to him.
03:17People are afraid of the consequences.
03:20So potentially moving more towards an authoritarian type of scenario in the United States, which
03:28a lot of people have complained, to your point, that we are sort of being governed
03:32by fiat, by a court that is, I mean, the Supreme Court in general is an unelected body.
03:38It's an undemocratic body.
03:40But now we have this conservative supermajority that a lot of people are concerned about that
03:44is not bowing at all to stare decisis, but is creating completely new rules.
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