00:00 Hi everyone, I'm Maggie McGrath, Senior Editor at Forbes, and joining me now is my colleague,
00:08 Emma Whitford, Staff Writer at Forbes, who has some provocative new reporting out about
00:12 where recruiters are hiring from when it comes to our nation's universities.
00:18 Emma, thank you so much for joining us.
00:21 Thanks so much for having me.
00:24 Let's break this down.
00:25 You have basically written, and I have a quote here, "The Ivy League is losing its standing
00:29 as America's producers of great talent."
00:33 What is going on here?
00:34 I think we all know that on-campus recruiters flock to the nation's top universities to
00:39 find talent for entry-level jobs.
00:42 Is that not happening in 2024?
00:46 We've been hearing some frustration for a while from students, donors, alumni, employers,
00:54 just that the Ivy League isn't quite what it used to be.
00:58 And they cite a myriad of reasons, from reports of great inflation at some of the campuses,
01:03 to how the officials have handled recent campus events, student protests, and also just frustration
01:10 with the admissions policies, that it's become sort of a black box, if you will, and no one's
01:16 quite sure how they're admitting students into their classes.
01:21 So I will note that recruiters are definitely still hiring from the Ivy League, but it has
01:25 sort of lost its credibility of being sort of the golden ticket.
01:30 Employers are no longer looking at it like it's a sure thing that graduates from the
01:34 Ivy League are definitely qualified for those positions, and they're just giving them more
01:39 of a closer look.
01:42 Is this part of a broader re-examination of higher education in the U.S.?
01:46 I mean, there was a Gallup poll last summer kind of indicating Americans as a whole are
01:51 questioning the value and efficacy of our nation's higher education institutions.
01:59 There's definitely some concern, I would say, amongst the general public about higher education.
02:06 It's due to so many different things, rising costs being one of them.
02:11 People are questioning the value of a college degree generally.
02:14 I'm not sure if I can say how much of that is related to sort of the Ivy League's changing
02:20 reputation, but I'm sure it does play a part.
02:24 Now one of the stories you've published this week looks at the 20 new Ivies.
02:29 Explain this, because I know there's 10 in 10.
02:32 So can you break it down?
02:33 What are these 20 schools and how did you determine them?
02:36 Yeah, so when we were hearing that employers are sort of looking beyond the Ivies, we wanted
02:43 to figure out exactly which schools they're most excited about these days.
02:48 And to determine that, we looked at a few things.
02:51 One was test scores.
02:52 We wanted to know where the smartest kids are applying, where they're getting into.
02:57 So we looked at schools that both had a high percentage of students that were submitting
03:02 test scores.
03:03 So even if they're not required for admission, they're still sending them in.
03:08 And then we looked at schools where the media test scores were pretty high.
03:11 So I believe at our public universities, we were looking for SATs above like a 1390 and
03:18 ACTs above a 30.
03:20 And then the private schools, the threshold was a little higher.
03:23 We were looking for SATs above a 1400 and ACTs above a 31.
03:29 And so we landed on 10 different public schools and 10 private schools that both met these
03:35 testing requirements.
03:37 They had at least 4,000 undergrads.
03:40 We wanted to look at schools that were relatively similar in size.
03:44 There are a lot of great small liberal arts colleges, but they're sort of a different
03:48 beast.
03:49 So we didn't want to directly compare them to some of the other schools on our list.
03:52 So let's run through briefly because I looked at the list, but I don't have it memorized.
03:57 On the private school list, what are the 10 new Ivies or what are a few of the 10 that
04:01 stand out to you?
04:03 Yeah, so the private schools that we identified were Johns Hopkins was a very clear new Ivy.
04:12 It's already well known as a great private school, but it's definitely one that employers
04:17 are going to more and more often.
04:19 We also identified Rice University, Northwestern University, Vanderbilt, Emory, Boston College.
04:26 And then on the public schools, any surprises in what made your top 10?
04:32 I think the biggest surprise for us was probably Binghamton University in New York.
04:40 It's definitely a school that people in New York already know is great, but it doesn't
04:44 quite have the national reach that some of the other schools on our list, like say University
04:49 of Michigan or University of Virginia have.
04:52 So it was really exciting to see that they landed on there.
04:56 What have these schools been telling you?
04:58 Are they saying, yes, this makes sense that we landed at the top because we've been investing
05:02 in on-campus recruiting?
05:04 Or have they been adding certain classes that add to a level of pre-professionalism on campus
05:10 that is in turn attractive to recruiters?
05:14 Yeah, they've been really excited to be recognized for the work that they've been doing.
05:20 I think they all recognize that they're well known within their geographic areas, especially,
05:25 but they're starting to build more of a national brand name recognition.
05:29 And they've made big strides in connecting with recruiters and employers all over the
05:34 country.
05:35 Georgia Institute of Technology, for example, is a great tech school in the South, and they've
05:42 really been working on building those career paths and are starting to have sort of the
05:45 same sway that a school like Stanford or MIT might have.
05:51 What tipped you off to these trends in the first place?
05:54 Was it just several weeks, months, and possibly even years of hearing from your sources that
06:00 these schools were beefing up their recruiting abilities and seeing a higher level of interest
06:06 from hiring managers?
06:09 Yeah, yeah.
06:11 The interesting thing that we were hearing from employers and hiring managers recently
06:18 was that during the pandemic, when everyone was forced to bring their recruiting online,
06:23 they really had to take a wider look at the places they were recruiting talent from.
06:29 So in the past, they may have invested their resources in going to campuses nearby their
06:34 headquarters, tabling there, talking to students there.
06:38 But now that they can post a job ad or post on a site like Handshake and access students
06:43 from all over the country, they're sort of realizing, oh, there's this great talent that
06:50 is a good fit for our company over in Nevada or in California or in New York, somewhere
06:55 far away from where they may have looked in the past.
06:57 So it's sort of allowed them to broaden their lens and find schools that they want to forge
07:02 a path with.
07:04 So May 1st is National Decision Day, which is just around the corner, less than 24 hours
07:10 from this moment.
07:11 So most kids have probably made their choice in school.
07:16 What do you want our nation's 18 year olds to take away from your reporting this week?
07:23 A lot of students, when they're deciding where to go to school, having an institution where
07:29 they can get a degree that they know is going to set them on a path for a great career is
07:35 really important.
07:36 I mean, a lot of students choose to go to college in general because they want a great
07:39 job.
07:40 So knowing which schools employers are really confident in and really optimistic about,
07:45 I think is really important for students when they're deciding between their final schools.
07:51 And what's the message for kids, students who have already chosen their university,
07:55 might be sophomores or juniors or seniors, at these schools that you have identified
08:00 are now less favored by recruiters?
08:02 Are they doomed?
08:04 They're definitely not doomed.
08:07 And I would say that the Ivy League is still very much looked at by recruiters.
08:12 There's still lots of companies that like Ivy League graduates.
08:16 I would not say that employers are abandoning them altogether.
08:19 They might just be taking a closer look.
08:21 So if you're a student at an Ivy League university that is working hard and learning a lot, that's
08:27 great and you're probably going to do fine.
08:31 Are there any other big takeaways or statistics that you have uncovered this week in the stories
08:36 that you've published that our audience should be aware of and that you think really helped
08:40 tell this story?
08:44 I think one of the most interesting things that we found was in surveying the employers
08:51 with our Future of Work newsletter, we did find that hiring managers these days are less
08:56 likely than they were five years ago to hire from the Ivy League.
09:00 But at the same time, they're more likely to hire from public colleges and state universities.
09:06 So public schools are just sort of rising in employers' eyes as producing top talent.
09:12 So if you had to make one prediction for the application cycle for 2024 into 2025, do you
09:19 think these public universities and some of the new Ivies on your list will see more people
09:24 applying for entrance?
09:27 I hope so.
09:28 We were looking at application trends over the last five years or so, and almost all
09:33 the schools on our list have seen their applications grow already.
09:36 I'll add that we aren't the first to say that these are amazing schools.
09:41 People have known these are amazing schools for a while.
09:43 They're just starting to get even more recognition.
09:45 So I would imagine that trend will continue.
09:48 Excellent.
09:49 Emma, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to speak with us.
09:51 We really appreciate it.
09:53 Thanks, Maggie.
09:54 Thank you.
09:55 Thank you.
09:55 [END]
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