- 2 years ago
#OffTheRecord #MuhammadZubair #NawazSharif #MaryamNawaz #KashifAbbasi
Exclusive Interview of Muhammad Zubair Umer - Off The Record - Kashif Abbasi
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Exclusive Interview of Muhammad Zubair Umer - Off The Record - Kashif Abbasi
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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NewsTranscript
00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:07 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:11 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:14 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
00:27 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
00:31 Thank you very much.
00:32 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
00:34 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
00:37, Shahid Khan is an outstanding person.
01:02 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
01:03 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
01:12 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
01:14 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
01:38 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
01:40 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
02:02 That was unusual.
02:04 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
02:13 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
02:17 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
02:19 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
02:42 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
02:51 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
02:53 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
03:19 Who goes to Sindh, second largest province in the country?
03:21 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
03:45 Outspoken.
03:46 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
03:55 He had a soft corner also.
03:57 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
04:15 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
04:20 He facilitated towards vote of no confidence.
04:25 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
04:27 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
04:37 I mean, he fell for it.
04:38 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
04:42 On the basis of the reports.
04:44 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
04:53 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
04:55 So he had to balance it.
04:57 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
05:13 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
05:15 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
05:35 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
06:05 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
06:06 Until the beginning of 2019, she was completely silent.
06:10 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
06:24 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
06:34 One of the options was vote of no confidence.
06:36 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
06:41 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
06:51 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
06:59 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
07:04 And suddenly, this vote of no confidence.
07:06 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
07:08 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
07:09 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
07:10 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
07:35 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
07:37 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
07:39 Why should we vote with no confidence?
07:41 They might have to compromise with something.
07:45 Who said that?
07:47 I won't tell you.
07:49 Was it Maryam Nawaz Sharif Sahiba?
07:51 No, Maryam didn't say that.
07:53 I don't know how PTI will react today.
07:58 But the reality about Pakistan is that it's not just that you're out of power.
08:02 It's also about the cases that are written about you.
08:05 And those cases are very difficult to handle.
08:09 If you never come on the right side...
08:11 Take the example of Parvez Hilai.
08:13 He was on the right side for 40 years.
08:16 He didn't even go to the police station for 5 minutes.
08:19 Once he came on the wrong side, he's been in jail for the past 1 year.
08:23 He's been on 15 bails, cases after cases.
08:25 What more clarity is there?
08:27 How unfortunate is that?
08:29 This is the system.
08:31 So you're saying that Bajwa Sahab sent Mian Sahab to London.
08:34 He had a big role.
08:36 And the government's lack of confidence
08:38 was admittedly compromised by him.
08:41 But there were 2 major political parties.
08:44 You know, the one that voted for Imran Khan.
08:47 Shahbaz Shahbaz himself used to sit in the back seat of the car.
08:50 I don't know about that.
08:52 Let it be.
08:54 Seriously, I don't know.
08:56 He used to sit in the back seat.
08:58 But the thing is, he had connections with Bajwa Sahab.
09:01 It's obvious.
09:03 Let me tell you a historical fact.
09:05 Malik Sahab was the negotiator.
09:07 Who was the other one?
09:09 Malik Ahmed.
09:11 Everyone knows that he was the negotiator.
09:13 Because he was very close.
09:15 He was Bajwa Sahab's creditor and Muzakirat Kaal as well.
09:17 But the larger aspect of it was that
09:19 PMI had 2 branches.
09:21 One was Muzamati and the other was Mufamati.
09:23 Muzamati had done his job.
09:25 The PDM launched, the judges were called.
09:29 The class was held daily and consistently.
09:31 And because of that, there was a push back.
09:35 And there was a chance to come to the negotiating table.
09:38 If there was a conflict, there was a conflict.
09:40 Yes, exactly.
09:42 If there was a conflict, there was a conflict.
09:44 It was said because when Shahbaz Shahbaz took over,
09:47 the coincidence was that in the key period of the PDM movement,
09:50 Shahbaz Shahbaz was in the middle.
09:52 So, the conflicts were very open.
09:54 He never got a chance to negotiate.
09:56 Because he was never in favour of anything that would cause a conflict.
10:00 He was never in favour.
10:02 When he started negotiating,
10:04 from that time, we could feel that he was on the right track.
10:10 He says that he never wished for the last extension.
10:14 He never expressed it in front of anyone.
10:16 Which last extension?
10:18 The one that never happened.
10:20 The one that is said about.
10:22 I have tried to find more authentic sources than one.
10:26 I was trying to find them till the last moment.
10:28 One fact is that, there are two things.
10:32 Imran Khan said in an interview after the vote of no confidence,
10:37 that when we found out that the Noon League had committed to an extension,
10:41 we said that we will also give it to you.
10:43 Both things were true.
10:46 Both the parties had committed that we will give it to you.
10:48 After that, when PM LN came to power, he started wavering.
10:52 That this will not be right.
10:55 But till the end, till the very end,
10:59 November of 2022, he was trying his very best to seek an extension.
11:05 Because he wanted to fix Pakistan at that time.
11:09 So, till November 2022, he is seeking an extension.
11:14 Did PM LN give this green signal to you?
11:20 I think no one could have given it to you except him.
11:23 He takes those major decisions.
11:26 In 2019, you must remember when he called London.
11:32 And in 2019, when he was giving.
11:35 By the way, I blame PTI more.
11:38 PTI should have thought through,
11:40 why is PM LN giving an extension?
11:43 He is our chief.
11:45 And PM LN is giving an extension with a lot of enthusiasm.
11:48 There must be something behind it.
11:50 Find out this. Why are we getting involved in this?
11:52 This is a trap.
11:54 The moment you gave this extension.
11:56 And by the way, please remember,
11:58 this was weeks after Nia Nawaz Sharif had left for London.
12:01 The one from 2019.
12:04 So, you are saying that this extension was also...
12:07 He was supposed to retire on 27th November.
12:10 He kept trying till November.
12:12 Yes, till mid November.
12:13 The first extension, you are saying,
12:15 that decision was made there.
12:16 Was this also done by Bajwa Sahab's efforts?
12:18 Bajwa Sahab...
12:20 There are many things,
12:22 which I cannot know the exact state of your heart.
12:25 But, generally, you see,
12:28 by doing 2+2, you say, he has a desire.
12:31 And he had become a kingmaker
12:35 after the disqualification of Nia Nawaz Sharif in 2017.
12:38 Imran Khan was also largely depending on him
12:41 to get into power.
12:43 PM LN was being broken up.
12:46 That was also happening under his own direction.
12:49 Everything was happening.
12:50 So, after doing all that,
12:53 he was not going to leave after doing just one first term.
12:56 It was a natural desire.
12:58 And his demonstration,
13:00 the key decision making forums,
13:03 was not of the type of economic forum,
13:06 like the SIFC,
13:08 but he was included directly in it.
13:11 There were no kids, he was included.
13:13 So, he wanted to play a role.
13:15 But, Bajwa Sahab used to say,
13:16 that he did not want the first extension.
13:17 No, I did not say that.
13:19 If he did not want, he would have said no.
13:21 But, now, there is so much compulsion.
13:24 So, General Kiani took the extension.
13:27 And I thought, many people said,
13:29 that he regretted later,
13:30 that he was the chief of the second term.
13:33 But, in Pakistan,
13:35 apart from the period of the 90s,
13:37 everyone else…
13:39 Mr. Subedar, you might remember,
13:41 when Muslim Lee Moon gave the vote for the extension,
13:44 you came to my program that day,
13:46 on the phone.
13:48 You said, Mariam Nawaz was against it,
13:50 she did not know.
13:52 What is this?
13:54 I will tell you a fact today,
13:57 that Mariam Nawaz, in many things,
14:00 her view was independent.
14:03 Independent of even the London meeting,
14:07 obviously, she was not involved.
14:10 Now, you can say, she is a daughter,
14:12 she can ask her father.
14:13 You said, you did not consult her.
14:16 I said, what is this?
14:17 I remember it well.
14:18 I said, there is a thing called telephone.
14:20 It is an invention that has been invented in the world.
14:22 We also use it.
14:23 You could have picked up the phone and asked your father.
14:25 But, look, Mariam Nawaz,
14:28 which I have seen very closely,
14:30 this is a big issue,
14:32 even on the smallest of things,
14:34 she would depend on Mr. Nawaz,
14:36 and listen to him,
14:38 even when she had a completely different point of view.
14:41 So, that, because,
14:43 the Muzawwati Biani was an opening batsman.
14:46 I mean, if Mr. Nawaz was a one down,
14:48 he was a captain.
14:50 He was a captain, not an opening.
14:52 We used to say, he made the party,
14:54 he made Muzawwati Biani.
14:56 He saved the party.
14:58 The aggressive politics,
15:00 reactionary politics,
15:02 which he called Muzawwati Biani.
15:03 At that time, there was a space,
15:05 a politics of resistance.
15:06 Now, you see, I am not comparing,
15:08 but, in PTI, the people who have gone ahead,
15:11 take the example of Marwat,
15:12 there is a space.
15:13 People want to listen to this kind of resistance,
15:16 and defiance politics.
15:17 And, Mariam Nawaz played that role,
15:19 and she established herself.
15:20 You, by the way,
15:22 you have cleared all the things,
15:24 about Mr. Bajwa,
15:25 that everything was his,
15:27 he was asking for extension,
15:29 you said, no confidence,
15:31 that the matter was settled.
15:33 This Mariam Nawaz Sharif,
15:34 in Gujranwala,
15:35 after that, I want to come to your own politics,
15:37 and I want to relive some events with you.
15:40 In Gujranwala,
15:41 Mr. Nawaz Sharif took the name of General Bajwa,
15:43 and General Faiz.
15:44 Then, you were coming after a long march,
15:46 in which, in Gujranwala,
15:48 Mariam Nawaz was asked a question,
15:50 that, this is the place,
15:51 where Mr. Bajwa took the name of General,
15:52 so, what is the policy now?
15:53 He said, next question please.
15:55 You asked him, what is this?
15:57 I remember the next question,
16:00 but in what context he said that?
16:01 The question was asked,
16:02 he said, he refused to answer.
16:04 Did the statement of Musa Amir Mahmood,
16:06 changed?
16:07 He said, next question please.
16:08 Yes, because it had changed,
16:09 it was changing,
16:10 from Muzamir to Muhammad,
16:12 it is a world of difference,
16:13 that is,
16:14 for him,
16:15 for Mariam Nawaz,
16:16 it was very difficult to adjust.
16:18 It was very difficult.
16:19 And it was so difficult,
16:21 that I will remind you,
16:22 it was March 2021,
16:26 when PDM was very,
16:30 it was a big event,
16:31 and mid-March,
16:32 16th March, if I am not wrong,
16:33 the PDM meeting was held in Islamabad,
16:35 and in that,
16:36 this decision was made,
16:37 by PMLN,
16:38 that, yes, we will do a long march,
16:40 and we will resign after Islamabad.
16:43 People's Party was furious about it,
16:45 that we had never committed
16:46 to resign.
16:47 So, you will remember,
16:48 that the People's Party people
16:49 had left,
16:50 and at that time,
16:51 Mariam Nawaz gave a very strong statement,
16:54 in which reaction,
16:55 Bilawal said,
16:56 that there is only one selected,
16:58 the family of Lahore,
16:59 which is selected from 40 years.
17:01 So, so much fight,
17:02 was there within PDM,
17:04 that was fixed by the People's Party,
17:06 and PMLN,
17:07 within days after that,
17:08 Shibaz Sahib was released.
17:10 So, he came and then,
17:12 had a dinner,
17:13 which he had done famously,
17:14 at his home,
17:15 in which the People's Party people,
17:17 all the kings,
17:18 Parvez Ashraf,
17:19 Yusuf Raza Gilani,
17:20 and everyone was invited.
17:21 Shahid Ka Khan was very anti-People's Party,
17:23 didn't want to have any negotiations,
17:25 and he famously,
17:27 the next day,
17:28 someone asked him,
17:29 that the show-cause you have given,
17:31 to Shahid Ka Khan,
17:32 to the People's Party,
17:33 so, are you taking it back?
17:35 He said,
17:36 that what I had given,
17:38 what he had torn,
17:39 collect it,
17:40 read it,
17:41 understand it,
17:42 and then regret it,
17:43 and then we will think,
17:44 that we have to take it back.
17:46 Which was not the line of Shibaz Shahid.
17:48 So, there was this,
17:49 battle going on,
17:50 within the party.
17:51 Tell me,
17:52 why were you removed?
17:54 Yes.
17:55 But, anyway,
17:56 you were removed.
17:57 This is the continuation of that.
17:59 See,
18:00 Shibaz Shahid,
18:01 probably,
18:02 never liked me,
18:04 that way.
18:05 He used to.
18:06 When Media Cell was there,
18:08 so,
18:09 Media Cell,
18:10 from 2013 to 2017,
18:12 and there was a protest,
18:14 then there was Don Leaks,
18:16 there was Panama,
18:17 in that,
18:18 the government,
18:19 the PMLN government,
18:21 and the army,
18:22 which was in a very serious,
18:24 I mean,
18:25 a tense environment.
18:27 The notification is rejected,
18:29 this was of that period.
18:31 General Raheel Sharif used to give statements,
18:33 that if the economy is not bad,
18:35 then it is not good either.
18:36 Now, we used to come at night,
18:38 and you used to ask us,
18:40 that he said this.
18:41 Now, I have to differ,
18:43 from that policy,
18:44 I have to defend my Prime Minister.
18:46 So, when we used to talk,
18:47 the PTI guy used to sit with us,
18:48 and say,
18:49 see, this is against the army.
18:50 See, this is against the army.
18:51 And Shibaz Shahid didn't like this.
18:53 Okay, he didn't like this.
18:54 But, you,
18:55 listen to me,
18:56 if you say that you were removed
18:57 because of Shibaz Sharif,
18:58 then I am not ready to believe this.
18:59 He has become so strong,
19:00 that he can overrule Nawaz Sharif,
19:02 and Marihu Nawaz,
19:04 I am ready to believe this.
19:05 Tell me, any other reason.
19:06 No,
19:07 actually,
19:08 see,
19:09 the last,
19:10 last political act,
19:11 first political act,
19:12 you agree that,
19:13 the one who raised PM LN,
19:15 was Mariham Nawaz.
19:17 The first Jalsa,
19:19 in July 2019,
19:21 I was there,
19:22 and throughout the period,
19:24 I was there.
19:25 That is why,
19:26 I was made a spokesperson.
19:27 You were made a spokesperson
19:28 because of the press release.
19:29 Press release?
19:30 Which press release?
19:31 When you used to say,
19:32 that there will be no discussion,
19:33 then DGISPR did a press release,
19:34 then ask,
19:35 why did Zubair Sir meet us?
19:36 Then immediately after that,
19:37 you were made a translator,
19:38 and he was our translator.
19:39 Yes.
19:40 And the whole party didn't know,
19:41 that I met him,
19:42 because of what?
19:43 Because of whose will?
19:44 Because of whose will?
19:45 No, no,
19:46 I mean,
19:47 because of whose will?
19:48 Because of Nawaz Sharif's will.
19:49 Okay.
19:50 And it was also Mariham Nawaz's will.
19:51 What?
19:52 Mariham Nawaz and Nawaz Sharif's will.
19:53 Exactly.
19:54 Was there a agenda decided,
19:55 what were you talking about?
19:56 See,
19:57 I am telling you the fact,
19:58 many people criticize me,
19:59 that on one hand,
20:00 you talk about giving respect to the vote,
20:01 and on the other hand,
20:02 you talk about,
20:03 that you are meeting.
20:04 Without compromising your principle.
20:05 No, no,
20:06 when there is an institution,
20:07 which has all the power,
20:08 which was handling the courts,
20:09 which was handling the media,
20:10 now you are saying,
20:11 that I will not even talk to them.
20:12 So,
20:13 this is a very strange thing.
20:14 But I never took an initiative,
20:15 because this was party policy.
20:16 When you were sent,
20:17 and you requested,
20:18 that I want to meet,
20:19 Mr. Bajwa,
20:20 then there must be some agenda,
20:21 that what do you want to say to him?
20:22 Forgive us,
20:23 we made a mistake.
20:24 Yes,
20:25 exactly.
20:26 But I told him,
20:27 in my own words,
20:28 that what is the agenda?
20:29 Yes,
20:30 in my own words,
20:31 that I was,
20:32 that I was,
20:33 that I was,
20:34 that I went and,
20:35 first of all,
20:36 Pakistan's history,
20:37 obviously,
20:38 they also knew,
20:39 I am not claiming this,
20:40 that this clash,
20:41 this happened with Mujeeb-ur-Rehman,
20:43 and then they were given relief,
20:45 and all the cases were taken back.
20:47 But Pakistan suffered as a result of that,
20:49 the Bengali nationalism,
20:51 was so affected,
20:52 that you could not stop it.
20:54 You went to that extent,
20:56 and you killed Mr. Putto.
20:58 So, there is a history behind it.
20:59 Don't,
21:00 repeat,
21:01 the same thing again.
21:02 Forgive us,
21:03 we crossed the line.
21:04 No.
21:05 I said,
21:06 I had a very blunt question,
21:08 what did Mariam Nawaz do,
21:10 that you said,
21:11 that we have put a thorn in her.
21:13 But why did she put a thorn in her?
21:15 What has she done?
21:16 So, there was a thorn,
21:17 she said,
21:18 put it.
21:19 And the ticker did not work.
21:20 Ticker is something else.
21:21 When you told her,
21:22 she said,
21:23 yes,
21:24 there is a thorn.
21:25 Yes,
21:26 she said,
21:27 put a thorn.
21:28 Yes.
21:29 But then,
21:30 Nawaz Sharif also had a thorn.
21:31 Nawaz Sharif thought,
21:32 that it was a permanent thorn.
21:33 It had been a permanent thorn three times.
21:34 How many times will you put a thorn?
21:36 But Mariam Nawaz said,
21:37 to be fair with him,
21:39 General Bajwa,
21:41 at the end of the meeting,
21:42 after four hours,
21:44 just before I left,
21:46 before the second meeting,
21:47 he said,
21:48 you have convinced me.
21:50 You will see,
21:52 immediately,
21:54 in the very short period,
21:56 that why did she put a thorn,
21:58 why can't she do politics,
21:59 why can't she take the government's position in the future.
22:02 She said,
22:03 you have convinced me.
22:04 And you will see,
22:05 and within a matter of next,
22:07 following four, five, six days,
22:09 I don't remember exactly.
22:10 This is after,
22:11 they were allowing a press conference.
22:14 Because this second meeting,
22:16 was on August 7th,
22:17 no,
22:18 September 7th.
22:19 And what you are saying,
22:21 what the ISPR chief had said,
22:23 that was done on September 23rd,
22:25 within less than three weeks of that.
22:27 And at that time,
22:29 Maryam Nawaz,
22:30 was standing in the court,
22:31 and said this,
22:32 when someone said this to her,
22:34 she was then fed,
22:35 that you have come first,
22:37 to do peace talks,
22:38 you have come out and started,
22:40 and they are attacking.
22:41 They had started.
22:42 So,
22:43 when I asked Maryam Nawaz,
22:45 that you are making so much noise,
22:47 and your father,
22:48 a little while ago,
22:49 went with your very close friend.
22:51 This is on the morning of September 23rd.
22:54 So,
22:55 like I said,
22:57 she is an opening batsman,
22:58 I said,
22:59 we are not afraid,
23:00 if someone wants to meet,
23:01 if we meet someone,
23:02 we will meet in the light of day,
23:04 not in the loneliness of night,
23:05 and whoever wants to meet,
23:06 they should come to us.
23:08 Before I had reached Karachi,
23:10 that same evening,
23:12 the ISPR chief was talking to,
23:14 Shaheed Asif Sharif,
23:16 and telling that,
23:17 Mohammad Zubair had come.
23:18 Now,
23:19 in the history of Pakistan,
23:20 how many people go to the chiefs,
23:22 which time,
23:23 army,
23:24 ISPR chief has come and said this.
23:26 Now, when you say,
23:27 why did the fight happen?
23:28 You know,
23:29 when you,
23:30 by the way,
23:31 Shibaz Sharif was the president of the party,
23:33 and I am going and meeting,
23:35 and on the basis of that,
23:36 I got a show-cause to give respect to the vote.
23:41 But,
23:42 I am not saying this because...
23:43 Didn't Maryam Nawaz defend you?
23:45 Maryam Nawaz defended me a lot,
23:47 but when the moment of truth,
23:49 when Shibaz Sharif really had the control of the party,
23:52 he had started taking the control,
23:54 so at that time,
23:55 because...
23:56 Ok,
23:57 Maryam...
23:58 You didn't defend at that time.
23:59 But,
24:00 the last activity of vote of no confidence,
24:02 was,
24:03 from Lahore,
24:05 Islamabad,
24:06 Mehngai,
24:07 Makaub March,
24:08 I was with Maryam Nawaz.
24:09 So,
24:10 there was never a moment,
24:11 when I was behind or not,
24:12 and she supported me.
24:13 But,
24:14 at that time,
24:15 Shibaz Sharif had got the full control,
24:16 and I met...
24:17 So,
24:18 you are saying that you met Shibaz Sharif?
24:20 Shibaz Sharif...
24:22 Ok, let's do this.
24:23 Shibaz Sharif took out,
24:24 and Maryam Nawaz didn't defend.
24:26 Yes, exactly like this.
24:27 Because,
24:28 when Shibaz Sharif...
24:29 Here,
24:30 there was a meeting of the economic committee,
24:31 during the days of vote of no confidence,
24:33 there were all the Mifta's,
24:35 and I was there in that,
24:37 at last,
24:38 I had asked for a separate meeting from him,
24:40 and I tried to clarify him,
24:43 so,
24:44 we met,
24:45 in a good way,
24:46 but,
24:47 the body language was,
24:48 that,
24:49 you will not be part.
24:50 After that,
24:51 as prime minister,
24:52 I was never,
24:53 ever invited,
24:55 except for the first two meetings,
24:57 on the first morning,
24:58 and on the second morning.
24:59 After that,
25:00 you can believe,
25:02 he used to come to Karachi,
25:03 so,
25:04 I was never...
25:05 Sir,
25:06 your address was cut off.
25:07 Did you contact Maryam after that?
25:09 Yes,
25:10 I did contact Maryam,
25:11 and Nawaz Sharif.
25:12 You went to London?
25:13 I went to London also.
25:14 What did they say?
25:15 Can't you do anything?
25:16 I mean,
25:17 I said,
25:18 listen to me,
25:19 I have made so many sacrifices,
25:21 but no one has made any.
25:23 I mean,
25:24 I was directly under attack.
25:25 When you made me a spokesperson,
25:28 a week before the Gujranwala speech,
25:31 and at that time,
25:32 the trend was already known,
25:34 because in the internal meetings,
25:35 Mian sir's...
25:36 That first speech,
25:37 Mian sir.
25:38 Yes,
25:39 the first speech.
25:40 So,
25:41 Mian sir himself said,
25:42 that this is such a difficult statement,
25:44 and it was difficult,
25:45 and no one could bear the burden.
25:47 No one could bear the burden.
25:49 So, you took the burden and left.
25:51 No,
25:52 I see this in a historical context.
25:54 Let's see it after the break.
25:56 But,
25:57 it is an irony,
25:58 that you tried to lift the weight of his speech,
26:00 and he did not try to lift your weight.
26:03 This is your bad luck.
26:05 It is my bad luck,
26:06 but now everyone tells me,
26:08 that you should not have accepted this at that time,
26:10 if there was no meeting,
26:12 there would have been no confusion.
26:14 However,
26:15 Mr. Shabaz Sharif felt,
26:17 that you went to the meeting,
26:18 and then this happened in the meeting.
26:19 Okay, he said this?
26:20 No,
26:21 he was saying this,
26:22 Mian sir.
26:23 Okay,
26:24 let me clarify.
26:25 No,
26:26 I remember,
26:27 I did the messaging,
26:28 and I got to know from here,
26:29 and I said it further.
26:30 But,
26:31 this is just before your break,
26:33 we have very good people from PMLN,
26:36 who contact me and ask,
26:38 that you were made the Governor.
26:40 I just want to tell you,
26:42 I supported you to the extent,
26:44 that no one was ready to support you.
26:46 You know,
26:47 I never mention that video,
26:50 who made the direct attack?
26:52 It was not a video that was released,
26:54 it was a package that was released,
26:56 in which I was shown corrupt,
26:57 in which my business partner was also made corrupt,
27:00 and directly,
27:01 I have evidence even now,
27:02 after that General Bajwa himself sent people,
27:05 and he said,
27:06 this is too much.
27:08 But, you were also too much.
27:10 Even after that,
27:12 Maryam Nawaz said,
27:13 that you don't have to stay behind the scene for more than 10 days,
27:15 otherwise they will be successful.
27:17 And I was prepared to come back.
27:19 Now,
27:20 when I am going till here,
27:22 when the time has come for the party,
27:24 the good time has come,
27:25 then at least,
27:26 I should have said,
27:27 that by serving a cup of tea,
27:28 you have done a great job,
27:30 and you have also tried,
27:32 now our doors are closed for you.
27:34 So, I would have understood,
27:35 that you lack the capability.
27:37 As an opposition,
27:38 you were very capable,
27:39 but you cannot run in the government.
27:40 You cannot run in the government.
27:41 So, I would say,
27:42 fine.
27:43 But, then,
27:44 there is no light in the lamp.
27:45 Let's take a break,
27:46 we will be back.
27:47 Welcome back, viewers.
27:52 We are talking to Mohammad Zubair.
27:54 Zubair sir,
27:55 you used a word,
27:56 about 8th February.
27:59 Has the Noon League been wiped out from Punjab?
28:01 No,
28:02 it was almost demolished.
28:03 No,
28:04 wiped out,
28:05 not in that context,
28:06 but in that context,
28:07 where it was,
28:08 how many seats do you think,
28:09 they have won?
28:10 According to me,
28:11 around 40.
28:13 How are you giving so many?
28:15 I was not a polling agent,
28:19 who was involved in counting.
28:21 But,
28:22 the friends,
28:23 If you remove Islamabad,
28:24 remove the whole GT road,
28:25 remove 10 of Lahore,
28:26 how many are left behind?
28:27 Remove 11 of Lahore,
28:28 remove 12 of Lahore.
28:29 South of Punjab,
28:30 is left.
28:31 You are talking about being saved,
28:32 South of Punjab is saved.
28:33 Sir,
28:34 from here,
28:35 listen to me,
28:36 remove 3 of Islamabad,
28:37 and remove 10 of Lahore.
28:38 See,
28:39 the early trends,
28:40 Attock,
28:41 Chakwal,
28:42 Jhelum,
28:43 Gujarat,
28:44 5 of Sialkot,
28:45 you go here,
28:46 Lahore,
28:47 Your channel is reporting,
28:48 120,000 are of Usman Dar's mother,
28:51 and 80,000 are of Khawaja Asif.
28:53 So,
28:54 your channel,
28:55 your channel,
28:56 other channels,
28:57 independent,
28:58 people were all reporting this.
28:59 If we come to minus this,
29:00 then,
29:01 20-25 seats are left behind.
29:03 See,
29:04 I was saying,
29:05 that,
29:06 this,
29:07 But,
29:08 was it surprising for you,
29:09 that GT Road lost,
29:10 PMLN,
29:11 Lahore lost?
29:12 I wasn't surprised.
29:13 You were not surprised?
29:14 I was surprised,
29:15 only to the extent of,
29:16 that PTI,
29:17 had popularity,
29:18 everyone knew that,
29:20 but,
29:21 to convert that popularity,
29:22 into votes,
29:23 it takes a lot of effort.
29:25 In this atmosphere,
29:26 when Jalsa didn't happen.
29:27 Exactly.
29:28 Balla left,
29:29 that was the biggest setback,
29:30 when Balla left,
29:31 and,
29:32 when the votes were counted,
29:33 that was the biggest setback,
29:34 when Balla left,
29:35 and that came on 13th January,
29:36 three weeks before,
29:37 from February 8th,
29:38 to adjust to that reality,
29:39 that how will we manage,
29:40 we can't do Jalsas,
29:41 we can't do public awareness,
29:42 we can't run campaigns,
29:43 we can't put up posters,
29:44 so,
29:45 we can only do door-to-door,
29:46 from social media,
29:47 and to do door-to-door,
29:48 25 people couldn't go out,
29:49 together,
29:50 anywhere in Punjab,
29:51 anywhere in KP,
29:52 so,
29:53 that was a gigantic task,
29:54 that was a very unprecedented thing,
29:55 for me,
29:56 that,
29:57 even in this atmosphere,
29:58 that,
29:59 that,
30:00 that,
30:01 that,
30:02 the
30:20 statement
30:28 of the Supreme Court.
30:38 In this case, the Supreme Court's chief justice was silent. The Election Commission was silent.
30:43 And there is more evidence than one. Because you must have heard that Mustafa Khokhar was not claiming that he won in his constituency.
30:53 He was saying that the other one was saying that my form 45... He said that he did not win, PTI won and I am ready to go to the Election Commission and say it.
31:01 He also got the form 45. The Jamaat-e-Islami people also got it. They did not win. So, that form 45...
31:08 If it was some other country, even for that matter, the Pindi Commissioner...
31:11 The guy from TLP did a press conference with Kaisra Elahi Sahiba. He said that he also has a form 45. He won and she lost.
31:17 People ignore a lot of things. The way I build my argument, this was not the first time this was happening.
31:23 Since the vote of no confidence happened, the first test was in July 2022 when 20 elections were held in Punjab.
31:30 Out of which 16 PTI won. So, PMLN had never lost in Punjab like this since the electoral politics started back in the 80s. Never.
31:40 There can't be a bigger shock than this. After two months, three months...
31:43 11 seats were elected in the National Assembly.
31:45 In October, in the National Assembly. People's Party took two seats from PTI.
31:48 From PTI. From Lihari... No, from Kurangi and... From Multan.
31:53 The rest, all... PMLN was losing all of them. In Faisalabad, Lahore, South Punjab.
31:58 In Nankana Sahib.
31:59 After that, one more seat was elected, and Amir Liaqat's seat was by-elected in Karachi.
32:04 All the PDM's allies, in total, had 9000 votes.
32:10 And the winner, Mehmood Maulvi, who later won in IPP, who I think got 2,500 votes later,
32:16 he won with 30-35,000 votes.
32:18 Then, there was one, I think, Dera Ghazi Khan, who was by-elected just now,
32:23 from the February elections, 2-3 months ago. 4 months ago.
32:26 Three PTIs. So, what was the shock? What was happening?
32:30 Now, when you say that February 8th was a shock, it was a shock only because PTI had the popularity.
32:37 Because it had that narrative.
32:39 That's why PMLN is getting more shocked. Because they had done all they could.
32:44 They had done it. They had taken the bullet mark, but still they lost.
32:47 They had done everything. They had scared us. But, post-May 9th, PTI was non-functional.
32:51 This has never happened in Pakistan's history.
32:53 Why did they leave Asad Umar?
32:54 You should ask them.
32:56 They are just too personal.
33:00 One-liner?
33:01 What?
33:01 One-liner?
33:02 No, no, no. Too personal.
33:03 I remember it from May 9th.
33:05 By the way, I have never asked.
33:07 But, he was not an exception. Everyone was doing it.
33:10 The only difference with Asad Umar is that he left the party.
33:18 Asad left only his party post.
33:20 He left both the posts. He left the core committee and the secretary general.
33:23 He left the secretary general. I don't remember the core committee.
33:25 Later, when the party disowned him, he said, "If you don't disown me, I will not be able to do this."
33:29 I don't know about the internal party, but around the first week of November, he left.
33:32 What should we do with Imran Khan?
33:34 What?
33:35 Did Imran Khan get the right punishments?
33:36 No, they were wrong.
33:37 All the punishments were wrong?
33:39 Pakistan's judicial system is not fair. How can I say that it is right?
33:42 Is there any common sense?
33:45 In 2017-18, Nawaz Sharif did all the wrong things.
33:48 In 2022-24, he did all the wrong things.
33:51 Now, he does all the good things.
33:53 And all the wrong things, whose punishments are 10 years, 12 years, 15 years,
33:59 I mean, the case of Iddat, Pakistan's history was so bad,
34:04 that it was worse than that, worse than his standards.
34:07 You must have heard about Rana Sinaullah, that he backfired for us.
34:12 Everyone is saying that.
34:13 Now, everyone is saying that.
34:14 Listen to me.
34:15 When he was announced, why were there four press conferences?
34:18 Right.
34:19 I mean, at that time, we were not understanding that this is, people don't like this.
34:23 It is high side 2020.
34:24 They realized it later.
34:25 Look, just like that, before the election…
34:27 What did you realize when he was doing the press conference, when three convictions were happening at the same time?
34:31 I mean, the first conviction started at 9 in the morning,
34:34 the second conviction was at 12 in the night, and it ended at 1 in the morning.
34:37 It felt like a slot was booked, that now this minister has to do it,
34:39 now this minister has to do it, now this politician has to do it, now this politician has to do it.
34:42 I mean, the press conference was happening in a line.
34:45 Imran Khan came and we won.
34:47 When you became an IPP, then after that you became a parliamentarian.
34:51 Where did that go?
34:52 Where did that go?
34:53 Who are these geniuses, who thought that if Parvez Ghatak made this party,
35:00 then Imran Khan would be cleared from KP.
35:02 This was the thinking, right?
35:04 There is a limit to something.
35:06 But Aunchodri won the election from Lahore.
35:08 Aunchodri Salman Akram Raja, I mean, how?
35:11 By the way, Aunchodri, I know him very well.
35:15 I know Salman Akram Raja, outstanding person.
35:20 I can't believe it.
35:21 PM Allen didn't win from this seat in 2018, he didn't win in 2013.
35:26 He won from the seat of Shafqat Mehmood.
35:28 He won, I mean, when we had a peak, we didn't win from there.
35:32 Now our unity won.
35:34 Now Mr. Mian has put a vote on it.
35:36 He is the leader of Mr. Mian.
35:38 He is the leader of Mr. Mian, what are you doing?
35:40 Be a little careful.
35:42 There should be a little acceptability.
35:45 Now if you are going to fight Imran Khan's case.
35:48 Now this happened the day before yesterday, April 21st.
35:51 By the way, you don't comment on Mr. Mian's case, you want to comment on Aunchodri.
35:56 Because, again, Mr. Mian has been winning those seats since 1988, since 1985.
36:03 So, Aunchodri...
36:05 Sir, you just said something, what are you saying?
36:07 You just said that there were 20 elections in Punjab, there were 4 Lords,
36:10 in which 3 elections were won by PM Allen, the seats that you have.
36:14 Look, PTI is very very smart in building up a narrative.
36:19 Everyone says that...
36:21 And your party is as bad in building up a narrative.
36:24 No, but our people say that we got some Bianias too.
36:28 When we got the Bianias, give respect to the vote, that was a powerful Bianias.
36:32 We capitalized on it.
36:34 One of your people said, look, we had made it, but Imran Khan went with it.
36:38 This is how it happened, anti-establishment votes are coming.
36:40 Look, from the time of Fatima Jinnah, you can see it till today.
36:44 The Pakistani public is standing.
36:46 What did Mr. Mian think that he has compromised?
36:49 He was sitting outside, nothing was happening, Maryam was doing politics, nothing was happening.
36:53 Mr. Mian was one of the exceptions, who were saying that you don't distribute these governments,
37:00 dissolve them.
37:02 Why did you make a deal?
37:04 You can ask him that.
37:08 Yes, you know.
37:09 Look, my point of view was that the factor of Faiz Hamid, he was over-restricted.
37:15 Mr. Barwa scared you and you got scared.
37:17 People, as you say...
37:20 I heard that Mr. Faiz Hamid is in contact with you people.
37:23 Now?
37:24 At that time.
37:25 The two or three times he was with me...
37:27 Did you hear about him in the party?
37:29 No, I didn't hear.
37:31 Don't say that.
37:32 Someone from your party told me, I said, maybe you know him, but you were not so translative.
37:36 No, no.
37:37 You were less translative.
37:38 By the way, Faiz Hamid, after that, he was good to me.
37:43 Okay.
37:44 After that.
37:45 Yes, after that.
37:46 I am sure he was.
37:49 Once I got a message that there is a briefing on foreign policy in the Foreign Office.
37:54 So I was invited.
37:57 General Faiz said that you should be called.
37:59 I asked General Faiz, I said, did you say this?
38:02 He said, yes, I said you should be there.
38:04 I said, you should go through the party leadership.
38:07 I mean, how will I look good?
38:08 He said, brother, where are you?
38:10 First you reached there, now you have reached here.
38:12 Sir, Mr. Mian had made a deal and came back.
38:16 But the situation, see, Pakistan's, this is something different.
38:20 What is the situation, do we do it or not?
38:22 Everyone does it, but what to do?
38:23 After the conference, everything was in favor of PM LN.
38:26 Everything.
38:27 And you also said in a statement that our good time is about to begin.
38:30 Good time is about to begin.
38:32 Good time has come and is not ending.
38:34 It is going on.
38:35 Good time is not just that we come in power.
38:38 It also means that our main opponent for now and in future,
38:43 should be destroyed.
38:46 Then it will mean.
38:47 Finally, tell me, Mr. Mian, what should happen?
38:49 Should we take it out or keep it inside?
38:50 If you want to take Pakistan forward, then the entire Pakistani leadership has to step back.
38:56 The 50-60 years that we have been experiencing,
39:00 that one, two, three, we will understand that Pakistan will go ahead.
39:03 The reality is that Pakistan is very badly stuck at the moment.
39:06 Economically, see, see about human development indexes,
39:10 see any, see the disconnect, Pakistan's intelligence.
39:14 Okay, but you think it should end.
39:16 It should end.
39:17 But when your party starts giving a lot of shoulders, how will it end?
39:21 No.
39:22 If not, then you will refuse.
39:24 What is the trust?
39:25 People also ask that today Imran Khan will be given a little time.
39:28 Absolutely no trust.
39:29 Then what will happen?
39:30 Time will decide.
39:31 That will be found out.
39:32 If you are inside.
39:33 Next time you will come, you will come from Shahid Khan's party.
39:35 I will say this in my program.
39:36 You ask this question from Shahid Khan.
39:38 You call, there are three wells.
39:40 You are also full.
39:42 You also call.
39:43 There are four, three.
39:44 Let's take a break.
39:45 After the break, we will be back.
39:46 [MUSIC PLAYING]
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